The Book of Sabretooth

[whitestuff]

The Book of Sabretooth​

C3G MARVEL WAVE 8
THE MUTANT MENACE
​

Comic PDF​

Mini PDF

The figure used for this unit is a Heroclix figure from the Infinity Challenge set.
Its model number and name are #055-057 / Sabretooth.
Its model number and name are #167 / Victor Creed.

The figure used for this unit is a Heroclix figure from the Universe set.
Its model number and name are #005, 079-081 / Sabretooth. ​

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Character Bio - Sabretooth is a mutant who possesses bestial superhuman abilities, most notably a rapid healing factor, razor-sharp fangs and claws, and superhuman senses. He is a vicious assassin responsible for numerous deaths both as a paid mercenary and for his personal pleasure. While both Wolverine and Sabretooth were victims of the supersoldier program Weapon X, Sabretooth saw Wolverine as competition and tried to make his life miserable. Creed eventually adopts a tradition of tracking Logan down on his birthday with the intention of fighting him. Sabretooth has always managed to find him, no matter where Logan was or what he was doing, and come within an inch of killing him. Sabretooth's only reason for this is to remind Wolverine that he could.
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-Rulings and Clarifications-

• Q: Which occurs first, rolling for Lava Field Damage at the end of the round, or Healing Factor X at the end of the round?
• A: Lava Field Damage is treated like a special power from another player. Roll the 20-sided die for Healing Factor X and Lava Field Damage (and any other players' powers that occur at the end of the round) to see which comes first.

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-Combinations and Synergies-

Incoming Synergy:

• As a Mutant Outcast, Sabretooth has these
  • Mutant Synergies,
  • Outcast Synergies, and
  • Mutant Outcast Synergies.
• As a figure with the Healing Factor X special power, Sabretooth has these Healing Factor X Synergies.

Outgoing Synergy:

• As a figure with the Healing Factor X special power, other figures with the same special power can benefit from Sabretooth revealing the 'X' Order Marker. Current figures with Healing Factor X special power.

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-Immunities, Benefits, and Weaknesses-

Immunities:

• N/A

Benefits:

• N/A.

Weaknesses:

• As a Mutant, Sabretooth interacts differently with certain special powers. Special Powers that Interact Differently with Mutants.
• As a figure with a Special Attack, Sabretooth can be affected by aspects of certain special powers. Special Powers that Interact Differently with Special Attacks.

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-Strategy, Tactics and Tips-

• N/A

-Heroscapers Community Contributions-

• Initial Playetst: Hahma
• Second Playtest: Johnny139
• Third Playtest: Flame Gryphon
• Last Minute HH Playtests: Griffin

 

[whitestuff]

Re: Sabretooth - Design Phase

NAME = SABRETOOTH
SECRET IDENTITY = VICTOR CREED

SPECIES = MUTANT
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = OUTCAST
PERSONALITY = VICIOUS

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 7

MOVE = 6
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 5
DEFENSE = 5

POINTS = 290

FERAL INSTINCT
If Sabretooth destroys an opponent's figure with a normal or special attack, he may move up to 1 space and attack again with a normal attack. For each subsequent normal attack with Feral Instinct, roll 1 fewer attack die.

DEVASTATING POUNCE SPECIAL ATTACK
Range Special. Attack 6.
Choose a non-adjacent figure within 4 clear sight spaces whose base is not higher or lower than 6 levels from the base of Sabretooth. Before attacking, place Sabretooth adjacent to the chosen figure. If the chosen figure is destroyed by this special attack, immediately place Sabretooth on a space that was occupied by the chosen figure. If the figure is not destroyed, Sabretooth receives one wound. When Sabretooth is moved by this special attack, he will take any leaving engagement attacks.

HEALING FACTOR X
After taking a turn with Sabretooth, remove one Wound Marker from this card. At the end of the round, you may reveal an "X" Order Marker on this card to remove one Wound Marker from each Army Card you control with the Healing Factor X special power.

Original Post:

Spoiler Alert!

Thread begins...

Bloodlust - from Hahma

I figured he could have a power like

Bloodlust
If Sabertooth destroys an opponent's figure, he may move up to 2 spaces and attack one additional time. (or he can just "attack again" and continue as long as he destroys a figure.

Devastating Pounce - based on Wolves of Badru. I thought about explicitly stating that the pounce can't be used along with the pounce, but I thought about it and I think I like its potential...

Healing Factor X - I know that Hahma and Bats said to drop the X part of the Healing but seeings as they both went through the same program I figured they should have the same ability here.

So in comparison to Wolverine, Sabretooth is 1 faster and has 1 more attack dice. I figured that they should be fairly similar, with Sabretooth slightly quicker and more aggressive.

 

[SirGalahad]

Re: Sabretooth - Design Phase

Do you want an attack number cap on Bloodlust like there are with other figures (Black Canary, Catwoman, Two-Face)?

Do we need to specify about leaving engagement attacks when moving using Bloodlust?

We should probably specify that if he fails to destroy the defending figure with Devastating Pounce, the space he is placed on is adjacent to the defending figure.

 

[whitestuff]

Re: Sabretooth - Design Phase

Do you want an attack number cap on Bloodlust like there are with other figures (Black Canary, Catwoman, Two-Face)?

He is an uncontrollable feral killing machine that revels in death... I'd love to say no... Honestly though I'd be okay with Sabretooth being the best squad killer.

Do we need to specify about leaving engagement attacks when moving using Bloodlust?

I figured if there was no mention of otherwise the default rules would apply.

We should probably specify that if he fails to destroy the defending figure with Devastating Pounce, the space he is placed on is adjacent to the defending figure.

Whatcha talking about... that was there...

 

[SirGalahad]

Re: Sabretooth - Design Phase

So if my opponent was REALLY foolish, I could Pounce four spaces, destroy a figure, move two spaces for Bloodlust, Pounce four more spaces away, destroy a figure, move two more spaces for Bloodlust, Pounce four more spaces away, etc . . .

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: Sabretooth - Design Phase

Do you want an attack number cap on Bloodlust like there are with other figures (Black Canary, Catwoman, Two-Face)?

Do we need to specify about leaving engagement attacks when moving using Bloodlust?

We should probably specify that if he fails to destroy the defending figure with Devastating Pounce, the space he is placed on is adjacent to the defending figure.

No cap - destroying isn't that easy and even with squads you should be able to spread them out well enough to prevent this from being too crazy, since his move is limited to 2 spaces.
Leaving engagements should be addressed, yeah, since there's a static move in the power. I think he should take them, thematically speaking.

So if my opponent was REALLY foolish, I could Pounce four spaces, destroy a figure, move two spaces for Bloodlust, Pounce four more spaces away, destroy a figure, move two more spaces for Bloodlust, Pounce four more spaces away, etc . . .

Good points - let's make Bloodlust only work when he destroys someone with his normal attack. Then you only pounce when you really want to target someone for a hurt on.

Some quick rewording:

DEVASTATING POUNCE SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 4. Attack 6.
After moving and instead of attacking normally, Sabretooth may use Devastating Pounce Special Attack. To pounce, choose a non-adjacent figure whose base is not higher or lower than 6 levels from the base of Sabretooth. If the figure is destroyed, immediately place Sabretooth on the space the figure occupied. If the figure is not destroyed, put one Wound Marker on this Army Card and place Sabretooth on a space adjacent to the defending figure.

By the way - completely digging this design! I love him as an Outcast too.
I think if you drop the "X" from the Healing Factor, that'd likely put him right at 280, which would make him an awesome mirror for Wolverine ... (just saying).

 

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Re: Sabretooth - Design Phase

Here is the issue as I see it: Sabretooth's Healing ability, iconically is not as strong as Wolverine's. That being said, they ARE more similar than a simple Heal. Compared to everyone else, Sabretooth's Healing is crazy good. He can regrow limbs. One could argue it is better than Deadpool's because they both have the same limits, but he has no scars whereas Deadpool has scars. So I say go with Healing Factor X and see if we can't tweak him somewhere else to get him and Wolvie even. If he even needs to be weakened, which initial playtesting should help with.

EDIT: BTW, Great design Whitey! Way to take original ideas, old C3G ideas, and classic 'Scape ideas and marry them into a great write-up!

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: Sabretooth - Design Phase

I think there's a game balance concern here to be considered as well, though. Wolverine and Deadpool are both sooo good. I'm worried about creating too many figures that can benefit from that end of the round X-Marker reveal ...

 

[Griffin]

Re: Sabretooth - Design Phase

Healing Factor X on any C3G unit just overpowers the already near-overpowered Deadpool and Wolverine. I am personally against the X and I also don't believe that his healing factor is as powerful as Wolverine or Deadpool.

DEVASTATING POUNCE SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 4. Attack 6.
After moving and instead of attacking normally, Sabretooth may use Devastating Pounce Special Attack. To pounce, choose a non-adjacent figure whose base is not higher or lower than 6 levels from the base of Sabretooth. If the figure is destroyed, immediately place Sabretooth on the space the figure occupied. If the figure is not destroyed, put one Wound Marker on this Army Card and place Sabretooth on an adjacent space to the defending figure.

What if there is not a space adjacent to the chosen figure in which Sabretooth can be placed? This power works for the wolves, because they can be destroyed, but obviously not here. I think that the adjacent destination has to be chosen first, and I am not sure even then, why he would ever choose to NOT USE this SA unless he is surrounded by squads, and even still, he is going to rape the dog mess out of Kryptonians :fail:. I think that he should be destroyed just like the wolves, that way he won't risk this attack unless he really feels that it is worth the risk.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: Sabretooth - Design Phase

I could go with the Destroyed only mechanic ... and it would likely be what it takes to lower his cost some ... but I'd want to see the attack raised to like 8, otherwise I'd rarely give it a go.

 

[Griffin]

Re: Sabretooth - Design Phase

I could go with the Destroyed only mechanic ... and it would likely be what it takes to lower his cost some ... but I'd want to see the attack raised to like 8, otherwise I'd rarely give it a go.

 

[whitestuff]

Re: Sabretooth - Design Phase

No adjacent spaces next to a figure would just mean that it couldn't be used, just like a gun with no targets in range can't be fired. Perhaps it should just be that he lands adjacent to his target before attacking and then moves onto the space if he destroys the figure... I'm not keen on the auto-destruct... Sabretooth should be just as hard to put down as Wolverine...

As for the healing X, how many potential characters have been a part of the Weapon X program and would have it? Looking at the list of Weapon X program members we have X-23 (made from Wolverine's genetic material), Wolverine, Sabretooth, Silver Fox (she has an artificial healing factor), Marrow (has lost her abilities since M-Day), The Native (never heard of her) and Deadpool. Not too many on the list really.

I'll give this guy some thought over the next few days while I'm out of town...

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: Sabretooth - Design Phase

No adjacent spaces next to a figure would just mean that it couldn't be used, just like a gun with no targets in range can't be fired. Perhaps it should just be that he lands adjacent to his target before attacking and then moves onto the space if he destroys the figure... I'm not keen on the auto-destruct... Sabretooth should be just as hard to put down as Wolverine...

I can get on board with that. I'm not super keen on a 280+ point figure destroying himself on a failed attack all the time either ... maybe make it a special attack of 5, though, and he receives a wound if the attack fails to destroy the figure?

 

[whitestuff]

Re: Sabretooth - Design Phase

No adjacent spaces next to a figure would just mean that it couldn't be used, just like a gun with no targets in range can't be fired. Perhaps it should just be that he lands adjacent to his target before attacking and then moves onto the space if he destroys the figure... I'm not keen on the auto-destruct... Sabretooth should be just as hard to put down as Wolverine...

I can get on board with that. I'm not super keen on a 280+ point figure destroying himself on a failed attack all the time either ... maybe make it a special attack of 5, though, and he receives a wound if the attack fails to destroy the figure?

Sounds like a plan...

Any thoughts about the number of potential Healing X figures? I'd not like to think that Deadpool & Wolvie get it but Sabretooth not...

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: Sabretooth - Design Phase

Maybe my knowledge of the characters is limited, but I guess I always thought those two were better healers than Sabretooth ... Even three units with the power should be plenty to make a really dangerous army, but I guess we could just test it and see how bad it is ...

 

[Hahma]

Re: Sabretooth - Design Phase

Here's a power that I came up with for Sabertooth a while ago, for what it's worth.

RUNNING POUNCE SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack 3.
If Sabertooth moves at least 3 spaces, you may add 3 to his move if he ends his move adjacent to an opponent’s figure and attacks that figure. The targeted figure’s base must be no higher or lower than 5 levels from Sabertooth’s base at the beginning of his turn. When attacking with Running Pounce, each skull rolled counts as one additional hit.

It could also be modified to not have the "each skull rolled counts as one additional hit" aspect of it as to not have the potential for 6 skulls vs. Supes and Cap etc., and bypassing their special defenses.

RUNNING POUNCE SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack 5.
If Sabertooth moves at least 3 spaces, you may add 3 to his move if he ends his move adjacent to an opponent’s figure and attacks that figure. The targeted figure’s base must be no higher or lower than 5 levels from Sabertooth’s base at the beginning of his turn.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: Sabretooth - Design Phase

How about just ...

DEVASTATING POUNCE SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 4. Attack 6.
After moving and instead of attacking normally, Sabretooth may use Devastating Pounce Special Attack. To pounce, you must choose a non-adjacent figure whose base is not higher or lower than 6 levels from the base of Sabretooth and place Sabretooth adjacent to that figure, on an empty space within 4 spaces of Sabretooth's original placement. After placing Sabretooth, roll attack dice once. If the figure is destroyed, immediately place Sabretooth on the space the figure occupied. If the figure is not destroyed, put one Wound Marker on this Army Card.

 

[Hahma]

Re: Sabretooth - Design Phase

Regenerative Healing Factor: Sabretooth's primary mutant power was an accelerated healing process that enabled him to regenerate damaged or destroyed areas of his anatomy with far greater efficiency than an ordinary human. Originally, the speed of Sabretooth's healing factor's was in proportion to the wound's severity; for example, he could fully recover from an ordinary gunshot wound within minutes or injuries as severe as a broken back and severed spine within days. However, Sabretooth's healing ability was dramatically increased in recent years due to various augmentation procedures. Sabretooth could fully heal from injuries that result in massive tissue damage or loss such as multiple gunshot wounds, slashes, puncture wounds, blunt force trauma, and severe burns within a matter of moments.


Superhuman Strength: Sabretooth possessed superhuman strength that has been artificially augmented on a number of occasions over the years. Initially, he possessed sufficient strength to lift slightly above 800 lbs for breif amounts of time [4] , slightly greater than the maximum amount an ordinary human is capable of lifting. However, after being captured and augmented the first time by his son, Graydon Creed, his strength was increased to the point where he could lift about 2 tons. He also underwent various augmentation procedures at the hands of the latest incarnation of the Weapon X Program, including some to both his strength and healing factor. While the full limits of his strength weren't revealed, the latest Wolverine handbook confirms sabretooth being stronger than Wolverine who is stated to be able to lift in excess of 800 lbs for brief periods [5]

From the portion of the Marvel Comic Database entry above for Sabertooth, I can see him having the Healing Factor X. While I didn't originally believe so, I guess he could just as easily have it. It also looks like he can have Superstrength as well.

 

[Hahma]

Re: Sabretooth - Design Phase

DEVASTATING POUNCE SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 4. Attack 6.
After moving and instead of attacking normally, Sabretooth may use Devastating Pounce Special Attack. To pounce, you must choose a non-adjacent figure whose base is not higher or lower than 6 levels from the base of Sabretooth and place Sabretooth adjacent to that figure, on an empty space within 4 spaces of Sabretooth's original placement. After placing Sabretooth, roll attack dice once. If the figure is destroyed, immediately place Sabretooth on the space the figure occupied. If the figure is not destroyed, put one Wound Marker on this Army Card.

You'd have to say empty space because if there were a permanent glyph there, he'd have to end his move there and not be able to go to the space the destroyed figure occupied? Or does the "placing" of him trump the "end move" from landing on the glyph? Or do you need the "on an empty space" at all?

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: Sabretooth - Design Phase

I guess the question is what do we think is the most iconic version of Sabretooth? I'd say that his pre-super strength character is more iconic for me ...

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: Sabretooth - Design Phase

DEVASTATING POUNCE SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 4. Attack 6.
After moving and instead of attacking normally, Sabretooth may use Devastating Pounce Special Attack. To pounce, you must choose a non-adjacent figure whose base is not higher or lower than 6 levels from the base of Sabretooth and place Sabretooth adjacent to that figure, on an empty space within 4 spaces of Sabretooth's original placement. After placing Sabretooth, roll attack dice once. If the figure is destroyed, immediately place Sabretooth on the space the figure occupied. If the figure is not destroyed, put one Wound Marker on this Army Card.

You'd have to say empty space because if there were a permanent glyph there, he'd have to end his move there and not be able to go to the space the destroyed figure occupied? Or does the "placing" of him trump the "end move" from landing on the glyph? Or do you need the "on an empty space" at all?

I think it's a power that should be used for attacking, not glyph grabbing, so I'd prefer to avoid any issues with using the power to hop on glyphs or anything like that - thus the "empty" language.

 

[SirGalahad]

Re: Sabretooth - Design Phase

How about just ...

DEVASTATING POUNCE SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 4. Attack 6.
After moving and instead of attacking normally, Sabretooth may use Devastating Pounce Special Attack. To pounce, you must choose a non-adjacent figure whose base is not higher or lower than 6 levels from the base of Sabretooth and place Sabretooth adjacent to that figure, on an empty space within 4 spaces of Sabretooth's original placement. After placing Sabretooth, roll attack dice once. If the figure is destroyed, immediately place Sabretooth on the space the figure occupied. If the figure is not destroyed, put one Wound Marker on this Army Card.

Do we need some clarification about whether or not he can Pounce over castle walls, ruins, etc, to get to the opponent's figure, since the height restriction only references the heights of the figure's bases?

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: Sabretooth - Design Phase

It uses "place" in the mechanics, so, no, you wouldn't have to worry about any obstacles in between you and the figure you're pouncing on.
If that's a theme break for people, we can always specify that the figure you're pouncing on has to be in clear sight (which would save Martian Manhunter, Invisible Woman, and sometimes Super Skrull from pounces).

 

[Hahma]

Re: Sabretooth - Design Phase

Yeah, I guess we can go with the non-superstrength version, as it would be the more iconic one.

Also, having the figure he's Pouncing be in clear sight would be probably better as well, otherwise he could end up leaping over 50 levels (conceivably ) of a castle wall to Pounce a figure on the other side.

DEVASTATING POUNCE SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 4. Attack 6.
After moving and instead of attacking normally, Sabretooth may use Devastating Pounce Special Attack. To pounce, you must choose a non-adjacent figure within clear sight of Sabertooth whose base is not higher or lower than 6 levels from the base of Sabretooth and place Sabretooth adjacent to that figure, on an empty space within 4 spaces of Sabretooth's original placement. After placing Sabretooth, roll attack dice once. If the figure is destroyed, immediately place Sabretooth on the space the figure occupied. If the figure is not destroyed, put one Wound Marker on this Army Card.

Would "previous position" work better than "original placement"? It sounds weird to say to place Sabertooth within 4 spaces of his his original placement.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: Sabretooth - Design Phase

Are there any official cards that use phrases like original placement or previous position? I'm drawing a blank on precedent.