The Book of Rogue

[SirGalahad]

The Book of Rogue​

C3G MARVEL WAVE 8
THE MUTANT MENACE​

Comic PDF​

Mini PDF​

The figure used for this unit is a Heroclix figure from the Infinity Challenge set.
Its model number and name are #121-123 / Rogue.​

_________________________________________________________________

Character Bio - A teenage runaway from the Mississippi bayou, Anna Marie is taken in by Mystique and raised as her daughter. She learns of her powers by kissing her first love, which puts him into a coma. Rogue joins the Brotherhood of Mutants with Mystique and eventaully absorbs Ms. Marvel's powers, which damages Rogue's psyche to the point of coming to Charles Xavier for help.
_________________________________________________________________

-Rulings and Clarifications-

• N/A

________________________________________________________________

-Combinations and Synergies-

Incoming Synergy:

• As a Mutant, Rogue has these Mutant Synergies.

Outgoing Synergy:

• N/A

_________________________________________________________________

-Immunities, Benefits, and Weaknesses-

Immunities

• As a figure with the Flying special power, Rogue cannot be affected by aspects of certain special powers. Special Powers that Interact Differently with Flying.
• As a figure with the Super Strength special power, Rogue cannot be affected by aspects of certain special powers: Special Powers that Interact Differently with Super Strength.

Benefits

• As a figure with the Super Strength special power, Rogue cannot be affected by aspects of certain special powers: Special Powers that Interact Differently with Super Strength.

Weaknesses

• Androids are not affected by Rogue’s Draining Touch special power. Current Androids.
• As a figure with the Flying special power, Rogue interacts differently with certain special powers. Special Powers that Interact Differently with Flying.
• As a Mutant, Rogue interacts differently with certain special powers. Special Powers that Interact Differently with Mutants.

_________________________________________________________________

-Strategy, Tactics and Tips-

• N/A

-Heroscapers Community Contributions-

• Initial playtest: Tickle
• Second playtest: marv_art
• Third playtest: IAmBatman
• Fourth playtest: Scapemage
• Fifth playtest: CharosinCharge
• Art by Good Pig

 

[SirGalahad]

Re: Rogue - DESIGN PHASE

NAME = ROGUE
SECRET IDENTITY = ANNA MARIE

SPECIES = MUTANT
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = REBEL
PERSONALITY = CONFLICTED

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 5

MOVE = 5
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 6
DEFENSE = 6

POINTS = 300

DRAINING TOUCH
Start the game with 1 black Drain Marker. Instead of attacking, you may choose an adjacent figure that is not an Android or a destructible object. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 11 or higher, the chosen figure receives one wound and, if that figure is a Unique Hero, you may place your Drain Marker on its card (removing the Drain Marker from a previous card, if any). At the end of the round or when Rogue is destroyed, remove your Drain Marker from the chosen figure’s card.

POWER TRANSFER
While your Drain Marker is on another figure’s card, Rogue must use that card's Attack and Defense numbers in place of her own and may use any of its special powers in addition to her own. If any of its special powers refer to that figure or that figure’s card, they refer to Rogue or Rogue’s card instead. A figure with your Drain Marker on its card cannot use any special powers on its card.

SUPER STRENGTH

FLYING

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: Rogue - DESIGN PHASE

OP looks rock solid to me. Nice work.

 

[Good Pig]

Re: Rogue - DESIGN PHASE

Good stuff Sir G. I really like the design, just a few thoughts/suggestions.

- Would you consider making her class Outcast to show her early ties to Brotherhood? Too powerful with Destiny d20 bonus?
- I think her attack could come up a notch to 5. From what I remember in her Ms Marvel powered version she was easily as strong as Beast if not more so
- While I like the mechanic, I'm a little iffy on her removing wounds for killing squad figures with Power Transfer. Maybe we could have her additionally with a higher roll wound or even destroy the figure she absorbs.

 

[Griffin]

Re: Rogue - DESIGN PHASE

Good stuff Sir G. I really like the design, just a few thoughts/suggestions.

- Would you consider making her class Outcast to show her early ties to Brotherhood? Too powerful with Destiny d20 bonus?
- I think her attack could come up a notch to 5. From what I remember in her Ms Marvel powered version she was easily as strong as Beast if not more so
- While I like the mechanic, I'm a little iffy on her removing wounds for killing squad figures with Power Transfer. Maybe we could have her additionally with a higher roll wound or even destroy the figure she absorbs.

1. I agree with OUTCAST
2. Agreed
3. Doom does it, and I think it works even better here for her. I really want that part to stay.

 

[tcglkn]

Re: Rogue - DESIGN PHASE

I like how she destroys squads. Perfect theme there for me.

 

[Good Pig]

Re: Rogue - DESIGN PHASE

I like how she destroys squads too and think that fits perfectly. The part I don't think fits is removing Wound Markers.

Unless she uses her contact on Wolverine, I don't remember her ever getting any healing benefit from power absorbing anyone without a healing power.

It's interesting if you look at Marvel Universe Wiki they have her stats on a chart that goes 1-7 maxed out 7/7 for strength and durability and 6/7 for fighting skills. Definitely higher than I would have thought. http://marvel.com/universe/Rogue

 

[tcglkn]

Re: Rogue - DESIGN PHASE

I've never seen her as that good of a fighter. And I thought she stole the energy of the person she was touching.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: Rogue - DESIGN PHASE

I'm OK either way on the wound healing thing - but if GP says it's not thematic, I trust him. The destroying of squads is most important for me.
I did realize one issue, though, reading through it again:

"If you roll 8 or higher and the chosen figure is not a Unique Hero or Event Hero, destroy the chosen figure and remove a Wound Marker from this card."

This would let her auto destroy all destructible objects on a roll of 8 or higher. We need to avoid that, I'd think. Some line in there about DOs not being affected is probably in order.

 

[tcglkn]

Re: Rogue - DESIGN PHASE

Androids and DOs should not be affected really.

 

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Re: Rogue - DESIGN PHASE

OK, her base Attack and Defense should definately go up to 6, as I am pretty sure this represents the time after she permanently absorbed Ms. Marvel's powers (hence the Flying and Super-Strength). She is a secondary powerhouse to Colossus most of the time and has even been known to use the Fastball Special with Wolverine. I also agree she should not heal from killing squaddies.

Great design, Sir G!

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: Rogue - DESIGN PHASE

Androids and DOs should not be affected really.

OK, her base Attack and Defense should definately go up to 6, as I am pretty sure this represents the time after she permanently absorbed Ms. Marvel's powers (hence the Flying and Super-Strength). She is a secondary powerhouse to Colossus most of the time and has even been known to use the Fastball Special with Wolverine. I also agree she should not heal from killing squaddies.

Great design, Sir G!

Agreed with both of these.

 

[SirGalahad]

Re: Rogue - DESIGN PHASE

I'm OK either way on the wound healing thing - but if GP says it's not thematic, I trust him. The destroying of squads is most important for me.
I did realize one issue, though, reading through it again:

"If you roll 8 or higher and the chosen figure is not a Unique Hero or Event Hero, destroy the chosen figure and remove a Wound Marker from this card."

This would let her auto destroy all destructible objects on a roll of 8 or higher. We need to avoid that, I'd think. Some line in there about DOs not being affected is probably in order.

It's in the first line.

POWER TRANSFER
Start the game with 1 black Power Transfer Marker on this card. After moving and before attacking, you may choose an adjacent figure that is not an Android or a destructible object. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 8 or higher and the chosen figure is a Unique Hero or Event Hero, place your Power Transfer Marker on the chosen figure’s Army Card. You may use any special powers on the chosen figure’s card. If the special power refers to the chosen figure or the chosen figure’s card, it refers to Rogue or Rogue’s card instead. A figure other than Rogue with a Power Transfer Marker on its card may not use any special powers. If you roll 8 or higher and the chosen figure is not a Unique Hero or Event Hero, destroy the chosen figure and remove a Wound Marker from this card. At the end of the round or when Rogue is destroyed, return your Power Transfer Marker to this card.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: Rogue - DESIGN PHASE

Ah, I missed that. Good job, in that case!

 

[Hahma]

Re: Rogue - DESIGN PHASE

Some pix if you need them, though it's such a damn bad mini and I'm not the painter type to fix her. So hopefully you can find some better pix somewhere or photoshop one of these into a workable one

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k273/hahma/Minipix168.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k273/hahma/Minipix167.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k273/hahma/Minipix166.jpg

 

[Good Pig]

Re: Rogue - DESIGN PHASE

She's crushing poor Billy

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: Rogue - DESIGN PHASE

She's crushing poor Billy

Young love gone wrong ... tsk tsk.

 

[SirGalahad]

Re: Rogue - DESIGN PHASE

SPECIES = MUTANT
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = REBEL
PERSONALITY = CONFLICTED

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 5

MOVE = 5
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 46
DEFENSE = 5

POINTS = 260?

POWER TRANSFER
Start the game with 1 black Power Transfer Marker on this card. After moving and before attacking, you may choose an adjacent figure that is not an Android or a destructible object. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 8 or higher and the chosen figure is a Unique Hero or Event Hero, place your Power Transfer Marker on the chosen figure’s Army Card. You may use any special powers on the chosen figure’s card. If the special power refers to the chosen figure or the chosen figure’s card, it refers to Rogue or Rogue’s card instead. A figure other than Rogue with a Power Transfer Marker on its card may not use any special powers. If you roll 8 or higher and the chosen figure is not a Unique Hero or Event Hero, destroy the chosen figure and remove a Wound Marker from this card. At the end of the round or when Rogue is destroyed, return your Power Transfer Marker to this card.

SUPER STRENGTH

FLYING

I'd rather not have her be an Outcast to start with. Let Magneto recruit her.

OK with Attack to 6 if that's what Spidey thinks. Cost will need to go up though.

Any other input before we move her along?

 

[Good Pig]

Re: Rogue - DESIGN PHASE

What would you think about any figure receiving one wound, not just commons? It would certainly fit the theme.

POWER TRANSFER
Start the game with 1 black Power Transfer Marker on this card. After moving and before attacking, you may choose an adjacent figure that is not an Android or a destructible object. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 8 or higher, the chosen figure receives one wound. If the chosen figure is a Unique Hero or Event Hero, place your Power Transfer Marker on the chosen figure’s Army Card. You may use any special powers on the chosen figure’s card. If the special power refers to the chosen figure or the chosen figure’s card, it refers to Rogue or Rogue’s card instead. A figure other than Rogue with a Power Transfer Marker on its card may not use any special powers. If you roll 8 or higher and the chosen figure is not a Unique Hero or Event Hero, destroy the chosen figure and remove a Wound Marker from this card. At the end of the round or when Rogue is destroyed, return your Power Transfer Marker to this card.

 

[SirGalahad]

Re: Rogue - DESIGN PHASE

That could work.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: Rogue - DESIGN PHASE

I like it a lot. Nice work here, guys. I agree with her not starting as an Outcast - Mystique doesn't. Scarlet Witch doesn't.

 

[Good Pig]

Re: Rogue - DESIGN PHASE

Good rationale on the class. I can support that. It will make her 8+ for Power Transfer not ridiculously easy to boost either.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: Rogue - DESIGN PHASE

Agreed. The only downside I see at all is that you won't be able to have Rogue and Mystique together as Outcasts ... but that just means we need to do an Outcast version of Mystique eventually.
Besides, the Outcast class better fits the younger, pre-Ms. Marvel powers version of Rogue.

 

[SirGalahad]

Re: Rogue - DESIGN PHASE

Sent to ERB.

 

[SirGalahad]

Re: Rogue - DESIGN PHASE

ERB Responses:

DW1970

Spoiler Alert!

Interesting! I´ve been looking forward to seeing her!
Great writeup, glad you decided to go for grandness in her one power! A few concerns, however, do spring to mind...

There´s going to be a theme break with a few special powers, like Punisher´s guns, Jonah Hex´s cavalry saber, adamantium claws, Ant-Man´s radio insect control and so on, powers that are really items, which she doesn´t absorb, but I guess we can all live with that, for the power to work overall.

And since she absorbs the mind/memory of her targets too, I guess we´re fine with stuff like Cyclops´s field commander, Beast´s negotiation, Jewel´s psychological vulnerability, generally personal skills and personality, that sort of thing.

A few problems arise when she doesn´t get to use the character´s stats. There´s something wrong about absorbing eg. Superman without getting his high attack, or absorbing Flash, getting superspeed, but not the high move number, or Green Arrow, without being able to hit things that are very far away...

And what about when she absorbs powers that tell you to start the game with glyphs or colored markers on the card? There´s all sorts of weird things that could come from this, and what happens to glyphs and markers when the power reverts to the original owner?

I think there´s a great power here, but it probably needs a little more ironing out, unless you´ve already thought about all those things...

Cheers
Jesper

Hahma

Spoiler Alert!

Looks great Sir G!.

I'd say she looks pretty solid and formidable in her base stats.

I like Power Transfer and the only thing that I can think of to say about it otherwise is that sometimes I've seen her take powers from a few people to get all juiced up to fight a specific enemy, like Nimrod. But the version you have is nice and clean and will work great so that she can borrow either a friendly unit's power or an enemy's.

Nice job!

davidlhsl

Spoiler Alert!

One word: Awesome! Again, I'm not comics savvy, but I do know Rogue has the ability to use the abilities of others. I recently played hi1's customs Super-Adaptoid and Mimic, which also have this type of ability. I didn't run into any problems with those figures. Plus, I've played Doctor Doom. With that experience in hand, let's check out Rogue!

The first, and probably most complex, situation I need to consider is what happens when Rogue Power Transfers Doctor Doom. When I played Super-Adaptoid and Mimic on the same side, Super-Adaptoid did place a Mimicry marker on Mimic, which allowed Super-Adaptoid to use Mimic's Mimicry to mimic other abilities, which works a bit differently. Confused yet? So am I. Here's some Tylenol. Let's take a short break.

<break time>

Ok, I'm back. Now let's see what happens when Rogue Power Transfers Doctor Doom. Rogue will get Doom's ability, and can use Mystic Power Drain to obtain the abilities of another figure. So Rogue will have the ability of obtaining both Doctor Doom's complement of abilities, plus the abilities of the figure targeted by Mystic Power Drain. Doctor Doom's Mystic Power Drain 14 is capped at only one successful attempt per round, so there isn't a danger of chaining the effect beyond this point. Rogue would essentially not have anything that Doctor Doom doesn't already have on his own, so I don't anticipate any problems. However, you folks might actually playtest this scenario.

Now I need to consider the effect if Doctor Doom Mystic Power Drains Rogue. Doctor Doom can now snag additional abilities with Rogue's Power Transfer to accomplish this. Since Doctor Doom can only Mystic Power Drain one figure per round, then his ability to snag the abilities of another through Rogue's Power Transfer doesn't seem broken, since Rogue really doesn't have any additional abilities that would conflict with any additional powers. Plus, snagging abilities in this manner requires both a successful roll of 14+ to Drain Rogue, then the 8+ for Power Drain. That's an extra layer for Doctor Doom, and it would be better for Doom to simply Drain the desired figure directly instead of going through Rogue (unless Doom wants to use Rogue's negation effect).

Based on this admittedly confusing analysis, I don't foresee a problem, but I would strongly recommend this scenario be included in a playtest.

The negation aspect is fascinating as well, and actually seems quite powerful. The wording of that specific aspect actually answers the question of whether a Power Transferred Doctor Doom could still use the abilities obtained from the Mystic Power Drain, even though he can't use his own. No, you clearly state he can't use any special abilities. Besides, negating his own abilities actually prevents him from using the Drained figure anyways. No problems here.

Next complication to consider: What if you have more than one Rogue in the game? My Rogue might Power Transfer Magneto, while the other player may Power Transfer Jean Grey. Would my Rogue be able to use the abilities of both Magneto and Jean Grey? The wording does seem to specify that it applies to only my Rogue's Marker, so I should only use Magneto's abilities if I'm interpreting this correctly. I know there's been some objection to marker ownership in the past, but I think it's necessary in this case.

Final Thoughts

This ERB was definitely a brain burner, and I had to rewrite this several times based on my mis-readings of Doctor Doom that I realized on subsequent readings, as well as factoring additional complications that occurred during this ERB. In fact, I really don't know if I've even written this ERB clearly enough for anybody to understand.

As you consider and design other figures that can snag the abilities of others, you folks will need to take great care in considering the impact when several of these figures are placed on the same battlefield. I don't honestly see any problems with this design, though.