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The Book of Reed Richards (Visionary)

Re: The Book of Reed Richards (Visionary) - Playtesting

I can support that. :up: Hopefully it reaches a middle ground where both the LD and the general group are happy.
 
Re: The Book of Reed Richards (Visionary) - Playtesting

Seems like where a lot of folks were at, yeah. :up: I admittedly have not been following closely.
 
Re: The Book of Reed Richards (Visionary) - Playtesting

:up:

I like the clarity of the unblockable happening before the glyph goes flying away. It looks like you can have it hit an opponent who picks up a loose glyph and then looses it. A good way to discourage your opponent from using your tech against you. That extra W might finish them!
 
Re: The Book of Reed Richards (Visionary) - Playtesting

Baller. :up:
 
Re: The Book of Reed Richards (Visionary) - Playtesting

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Reed Richards
VERSION TESTED
Spoiler Alert!


Army Test
Map: Elm Street.
Units: Reed, Strange, Xavier, Stark (1,000) vs Skrull Emperor (300), Super Skrull (340), Skrull Warriors (110)x3, Skrull Infiltrators (10)x3 (1000)
Spoiler Alert!

___________________________________________________________​

Army Test
Map: Elm Street.
Units: Reed, T’Challa, McCoy, Strange, Final Ruin, Temporal Inversion, Mesmerize (1,000) vs Professor X (190), Cyclops (II) (240), Angel (90), Psylocke (250), Nightcrawler (AoA) (230) (1000)
Spoiler Alert!


THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: Reed himself worked fine. I whiffed a metric ton on both games and the luck was not there. The glyphs are fun and a lot of Inventions serve as excellent counters to things, so it really helps Reed feel leadery in that he gets the Illuminati to meet whatever challenge they are facing. Elongation is a really nice power that’s guaranteed some use, especially if you held him back and now he needs to get somewhere. Contingency Plan makes a ton of sense and is useful for the Illuminati. Stats are just okay, but Reed isn’t a powerhouse. The games were abysmally bad, but Reed was probably about the second best performer overall, so I’d say cost is good. Maybe another 210, so he's swappable with T'Challa, but 220 feels fine.

GENERAL THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT: Good unit that does well for the faction. The toys are fun, but like many Illuminati designs, the payoff stacks with winning initiative and is punishing when you don’t. The main problem is I am apparently crap at playing Illuminati.
 
Re: The Book of Reed Richards (Visionary) - Playtesting

I played as the opponent in the above games. The Illuminati inflicted 3 total wounds each game.

Game 1 shows that Black Panther would have been a much better draft than Reed at 10 points less. It would have given the team turn efficiency that could better compete against the very efficient Skrulls, and it would allow Prof X to best use his Mental Blast.
Reed mostly just preserved Order Markers of his friends being mowed down.

Game 2 I used a Cyclops (II) and Prof X (Visionary) team I had tested Xavier in. It’s a nasty army normally, but I didn’t think about Cyclops’ initiative boost until the game started.
The X-Men’s +6 beat the Illuminati’s +3 (and potential re-roll) almost every time, so while the Illuminati were knee-capped, Xavier was cloaking the X-Men. Again, Reed mostly just preserved Order Markers of his friends being mowed down.

I’m going to call back to @Ericth74’s thoughts about being closer to 200. I think in Reed’s ideal build, he competes with Beast in terms of value, and doesn’t against Black Panther. Would like to see more tests. Could be one at 210 and one at 200? Or just two at 200?
 
Re: The Book of Reed Richards (Visionary) - Playtesting

If 210 is the tough sell since BP is an essential draft, id go with 200. That makes him and Beast interchangeable or either as an easy tack on to a 900 or 1000 point army to bump them to 1100 or 1200.

So if that's the desire, test him there and adjust stats accordingly to get him there if needed.
 
Re: The Book of Reed Richards (Visionary) - Playtesting

A round number like 200 is also an easy add-on if you're wanting to go between like 1000 and 1200 point builds, for instance.
 
Re: The Book of Reed Richards (Visionary) - Playtesting

I think 200 also works as a go to add on for the Illuminati builds. Does he really need more tests at that cost, I think he might be good for final editing. The glyphs and the interactions are variable and swingy, it'd be cool to have him as just a loaded but not undercosted 200 pointer, like Batman at 250.
 
Re: The Book of Reed Richards (Visionary) - Playtesting

Good question. I'd be fine with him as is going at 200. If he needs no more testing, that's cool!
 
Re: The Book of Reed Richards (Visionary) - Playtesting

What's the breakdown of what version has been tested and how he felt to the playtesters at each point? (Sorry, been immersed in 2.0 and want to be able to have an informed opinion here).
 
Re: The Book of Reed Richards (Visionary) - Playtesting

What's the breakdown of what version has been tested and how he felt to the playtesters at each point? (Sorry, been immersed in 2.0 and want to be able to have an informed opinion here).
Sorry that I'm just now answering this. Reed playtest W/L record had been 3/6. Just tried him at 200, so it is now 4/7. He's generally felt fun, but not game changing, and there's been a general trend in suggestions that he go down in points.

Here's two tests at 200, one against Splash, then against Ericth.

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: REED RICHARDS
Version Tested:
Spoiler Alert!


Army Test
Map: Ivy’s Greenhouse
Units:
Reed (200), Strange (320), Iron Man (270), Black Panther (210) (1000)
Orig X-Men
Results:
Crushing defeat for the X-Men, but not due to the Illuminati. Angel and Prof X hung out near one end of the left bridge while Cyclops and Jean on the other bridge ran straight into the fire of Iron Man and Doctor Strange. Once they fell, Iceman and Beast did the same thing. Had Angel and Professor X been in the game it would have gone much differently.
Reed didn’t take turns until the last two rounds. On one of his turns, he made Angel a Simian. Too late to matter, but was fun. The Shrink Ray crippled Beast, who had to leap to move around. It did get used against Iron Man at one point. The two unblockables from losing glyphs both failed.

Spoiler Alert!


Army Test
Map: Sacred Shrine
Units:
Reed (200), Strange (320), Iron Man (270), Black Panther (210), Professor X (190), Lightning Bolt (5)x2 1200
Captain America (240), Wasp (160), She-Hulk (370), Thor (430)
Results:
Massive win for the Avengers. I don’t think I’ve ever beaten a team that had Wasp/She-Hulk, let alone one filled out with Cap and Thor.
I took Strange too far out, and he got Super-Leaped by She-Hulk, and then she and Thor just objected and unblockable and beat him to 1 life remaining by the end of R1. Tried to use the Experimental Medicine glyph to save him at the start of the next round, but of course it killed him instead. Contingency at least preserved his Order Markers. Thor and She-Hulk then went person to person and finished them all off.

Some pretty bad luck for the Illuminati as well. Fending daggers failed 5 of 6 times. Mental Blast failed 5 of 6 times. Both Glyph unblockables failed. And when Black Panther rolled any skulls against Wasp, she met with equal or greater shields.
Spoiler Alert!
Spoiler Alert!


THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY:
200 seems the right spot. Doesn’t rock the world, but is nice to have. In a generalist army, Reed is more draftable than Prof X (190), but Prof X is more deadly and probably overall more useful in Illuminati. Reed also isn’t a must-draft over Beast, which is good.

GENERAL THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT:
Despite his mobility, there was never much of a reason to take a turn with Reed, so he tends to live or die in the Start Zone. @Ericth74 had an interesting idea that he can help retain the inventions that would be lost within a certain range of him. That would be a good reason to get him out on the field to grab and pass. With the unblockables all failing in both games, maybe Ericth’s idea could replace that aspect. Here is a proposed change:

VISIONARY THEORETICIAN
Start the game with 4 Invention Equipment Glyphs of different types in a Glyph Pool, power-side up. After winning initiative, you may choose a glyph from Reed Richard's Glyph Pool and place it onto the card of a Visionary you control, or onto the card of a friendly adjacent Unique Hero. When a figure within 9 clear sight spaces of Reed would lose that glyph, you may immediately place that glyph on this card.
 
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Re: The Book of Reed Richards (Visionary) - Playtesting

I like that idea, it's more reliable and makes him more worth cost.

I can imagine him stretchy-arming and grabbing one before it can fly off. :)
 
Re: The Book of Reed Richards (Visionary) - Playtesting

I kind of like that idea as well. Him being worried about his inventions, keeping a close eye on them and catching them before they hit the ground, seems like it would make sense. Then from a game play aspect, not letting those inventions fall into the opponents hands could be a nice boon.
 
Re: The Book of Reed Richards (Visionary) - Playtesting

So you thinking 200 with Eric's change?
 
Re: The Book of Reed Richards (Visionary) - Playtesting

Pre-yea
 
Re: The Book of Reed Richards (Visionary) - Playtesting

Ooh that’s so much fun! Make sure the glyph goes in his pool, not on the card.

Pre-Yea
 
Re: The Book of Reed Richards (Visionary) - Playtesting

I wrote it as going on the card for the theme Splash and YK were saying, where he's grabbing the glyph instead of letting it go flying, with the 9 spaces tying into his max Elongation range.
 
Re: The Book of Reed Richards (Visionary) - Playtesting

I propose we move to Final Editing at 200 points
 
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