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The Book of Reed Richards (Visionary)

Re: The Book of Reed Richards (Visionary) - Initial Playtest

Finished the Initial with Karat. Karat will post the write-up.

To better match the intent, tweaked the wording on Fantastic Contingency from this:
FANTASTIC CONTINGENCY
When Reed Richards or an Army Card you control has all of its figures destroyed, you may:
• move any Order Markers from that card to any other card you control; and
• roll an unblockable attack die against a figure equipped with, occupying, or within 1 space of a glyph placed by Reed’s Visionary Theoretician special power.
To this:
FANTASTIC CONTINGENCY
When Reed Richards or an Army Card you control has all of its figures destroyed, before removing that figure from the battlefield or a glyph from its card, you may:
• move any Order Markers from that card to any other card you control; and
choose a figure equipped with, occupying, or within 1 space of a glyph placed by Reed’s Visionary Theoretician special power and roll an unblockable attack die against it.
Here are some potential army builds for testers:
800 Points
  • Reed Richards (240), Black Panther (210), Doctor Strange (320), Spells (30)
1000 Points
  • Reed Richards (240), Black Panther (210), Iron Man (270), Spider-Man (Avengers) (280)
  • Reed Richards (240), Black Panther (210), Iron Man (270), Beast (200), Rick Jones (80)
  • Reed Richards (240), Black Panther (210), Doctor Strange (320), Beast (200), Spells (30)
  • Reed Richards (240), Black Panther (210), Doctor Strange (320), Hawkeye (220), Spells (10)
1200 Points
  • Reed Richards (240), Black Panther (210), Iron Man (270), Beast (200), Spider-Man (Avengers) (280)
  • Reed Richards (240), Black Panther (210), Iron Man (270), Hawkeye (220), War Machine (260)
1300 Points
  • Reed Richards (240), Black Panther (210), Iron Man (270), Doctor Strange (320), War Machine (260)
 
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Re: The Book of Reed Richards (Visionary) - Initial Playtest

Good stuff! :up:
 
Re: The Book of Reed Richards (Visionary) - Initial Playtest

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Reed Richards (Visionary)
Version Tested:
Spoiler Alert!

Army Test
Map: City Park
Units:
Reed Richards (240), Black Panther (210), Iron Man (270), Beast (200), Spider-Man (Avengers) (280) (1200)
Nightwing (200), Starfire (210), Raven (190), Arsenal (190), Ravager (Rose) (210), Miss Martian (200) (1,200)

RESULTS:
The Illuminati struggled to wound the Titans fast enough, and the Titans pulled a solid win, with an unwounded Nightwing and Arsenal.

Really fun match with the Inventions. Spider-Man (Avengers) makes a great Glyph grabber, backup bonder for when initiative is lost, and Glyphs like the Web Pistol and Anti-Grav Gauntlet get around his attack restriction (although that didn’t happen in this game). Thematic that he thrives around these smarties.
Elongation was useful in the endgame, making Reed an elusive target, able to get into advantageous spots.
Contingency Plan came in handy, although the wording in this power meant that the unblockables never went off, so we fixed the wording for next game.

Spoiler Alert!

Version Tested:
Spoiler Alert!

Army Test
Map: Conflict Chernobyl
Units:
Reed Richards (240), Black Panther (210), Doctor Strange (320), Hawkeye (220),10pts of Spells (1000 points)
Android 16 (250), Android 17 (280), Android 18 (270), Grid (200) (1,000)

RESULTS:
Went into this game with a tweaked wording on Fantastic Contingency to match the intent.
The Androids were able to barrage through Magical Defense and Vibranium, while the Illuminati worked hard to dent the Androids. The 3 DBZ Androids took a beating, but none were destroyed. Solid win for the Androids.
Reed moved quickly to try tying up the Androids and take the heat off of a near-death Strange, but Reed fell R3T1. When Reed died, Strange’s Teleportation Belt landed an unblockable on Android 18, which was nice. Reed's lack of Inventions and contingency afterward were sorely missed in R4.
Not much information on him from this test other than that despite his defense, he is best saved for last, which should be obvious.

Spoiler Alert!


Army Test
Map: Conflict Chernobyl
Units:
Reed Richards (240), Black Panther (210), Iron Man (270), Beast (200), Rick Jones (80) (1000)
Zatara (230), Zatanna (III) (250), Dr Strange (Secret Defenders) (280), Jinx (190), 50 points of Spells (Temporal Inversion, Condemn, Final Ruin, Lightning Bolt x2, Mystic Flames x2) (1,000)

RESULTS:
Solid win for the Illuminati. The Magical Defense team was not the most competitive build. Rick Jones turned out especially great for the Illuminati, as his defense subtraction pairs nicely with their modest attack numbers.
The Inventions were key in this match. The Teleportation Belt moved Iron Man out of a pickle, since he couldn’t afford to take a LEA from Jinx (or generally). Once he was free, he landed a bunch of unblockables on Jinx and Zatara with his explosion attacks against bushes. Before that, Zatanna and Jinx were basically untouchable.
 Beast’s Agility makes him good for swapping and passing. The Shield Belt kept Beast alive for a little bit longer.
The Contingency unblockable landed when Beast died. Not when Iron Man died, but it preserved his order markers.

Spoiler Alert!

Toyhandle's THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY:
Two solid losses and one solid win, but against a non-competitive team. Draftwise, I was able to come up with quite a few armies with him prior to testing. Obviously great in Illuminati builds, but also really loved how he played with Spider-Man (Avengers). In terms of Cost, he’s probably right where he needs to be. Possibly could go down to 230, but would need to see more testing. I was worried the glyphs could be over powered, but that wasn’t the case at all, they were a ton of fun. Very fun and themey.

Player 2's THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: Reed brings a lot of new strategy to this build but is a large target because of his OM saving nature plus the fact that destroying anyone leads to unblockables. Something to watch with this faction is the unfun factor which I feel is potentially high because they have a solid offensive and defensive wall with Black Panther already offering a wounding chance deterring engagements and then if you destroy someone there is now another chance for a wound you cannot stop. Does it make it unwinable? No. Is it broken? Also no. My worry is more the fun factor in facing these kinds of armies that just pile things on. They have a lot of good answers and Reed feels like a good addition to them. Just something I'd like watched closely as this faction develops.

My personal quibbles aside, cost feels good for what Reed is bringing and he is definitely useful and draftable. All 3 powers got used at some point in all 3 games so overall the design itself gets a :up: from me.
 
Re: The Book of Reed Richards (Visionary) - VOTE for Playtes

I propose a vote to move to Public Playtesting.
 
Re: The Book of Reed Richards (Visionary) - VOTE for Playtes

Not sure what all changed with wording since it was originally proposed, but now it's being pushed too small. So I'd want to see where we can refine.

I don't think you need to mention Reed in the first bit of the last power, if the power is taking place before they are removed from the battlefield, it would already include him.
 
Re: The Book of Reed Richards (Visionary) - VOTE for Playtes

This would get us there:

VISIONARY THEORETICIAN
Start the game with up to 4 Invention Equipment Glyphs of different types in a Glyph Pool, power-side up. After winning initiative, you may choose a glyph from Reed Richard's Glyph Pool and place it onto the card of a Visionary you control, or onto the card of a friendly adjacent Unique Hero.

ELONGATION
Before moving Reed Richards normally, you may subtract up to 8 from his Move number to add that to his Range number for this turn. If you subtract at least 4, he also gains the Flying special power during that movement. Reed never takes any leaving engagement attacks and may attack non-adjacent figures even while he is engaged.

FANTASTIC CONTINGENCY
When Reed Richards or an Army Card you control has all of its figures destroyed, before removing that figure from the battlefield or a glyph from its card, you may:
• move any Order Markers from that card to any other card you control; and
• choose a figure equipped with, occupying, or within 1 space of a glyph placed by Reed’s Visionary Theoretician special power and roll an unblockable attack die against it.
 
Re: The Book of Reed Richards (Visionary) - VOTE for Playtes

Updated, along with getting rid of "Reed Richards".
 
Re: The Book of Reed Richards (Visionary) - VOTE for Playtes

yea
 
Re: The Book of Reed Richards (Visionary) - VOTE for Playtes

Yea
 
Re: The Book of Reed Richards (Visionary) - Playtesting

C3G PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT Reed

___________________________________________________________​

Army Test 1
Map: Conflict Chernobyl
Units:
Reed(240), Beast(200), Black Panther(210), Doctor Strange(320), Final Ruin(10), Hellfire Ignition(10), Condemn(10) (1000)
vs.
Black Canary(220), Green Arrow(210), Hawkwoman(260), Wonder Woman(310) (1000)
Spoiler Alert!


___________________________________________________________​

Army Test 2
Map: Conflict Chernobyl
Units:
Reed(240), Iron Man(270), Black Panther(210), Doctor Strange(320), Hellfire Ignition(10), Crimson Bands(50) (1100)
vs.
Professor X(220), Gorgon(300), Phoenix(230), Colossus(260), Angel(90) (1100)
Spoiler Alert!


___________________________________________________________​

THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY:
He's pretty interesting and fun. Lots of utility. The glyphs feel like a lot of hardware to bring to the table, but their slow introduction keeps it feeling manageable. Was a fun decision each initiative win on which goes where. The win and loss were fairly equal all things considered, though I could see him maybe coming down by 10 points.
 
Re: The Book of Reed Richards (Visionary) - Playtesting

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Reed Richards

Version tested:
Spoiler Alert!


Army Test
Map: Wakandan Royal Forest
Units: 1000 pts – Reed Richards, Black Panther 210, Dr Strange 320, Hawkeye 220, Lightning Bolt Spell x2, Glyph pool - Experimental Medicine, Shield Belt, Anti- Grav Gauntlet, Web Pistol VS 1000 pts – Baron Zemo 170, Punisher 210, Taskmaster, Wonder Man
Spoiler Alert!

___________________________________________________________​

Army Test
Map: .
Units: Army11000 pts – Reed Richards, Black Panther 210, Dr Strange 320, Beast 200, Lightning Bolt Spell x2, Final Ruin spell, Condemn spell, Glyph pool - Experimental Medicine, Shield Belt, Anti- Grav Gauntlet, Web Pistol VS 1000 pts – Lex Luthor, Cheetah, Sinestro, Gorilla Grood
Spoiler Alert!



GENERAL THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT: The theme here is on point as Reed feels like an inventor dishing out tools for his team to use. To me he a bit over costed. I feel like he's a lot closer to 200 than 240. The Current Glyph pool that he uses isn't overly exciting and usually doesn't feel all that game changing. When a glyph is knocked away I rarely felt like I had to risk it to go after them, same with my opponent's. That being said Reed's Fantastic Contingency rarely triggers. It happened once in each game. That is something that could also see a tweak. Maybe something as simple as when an opponent's figure tries to pick up the glyph they have to roll for an unblockable. At least it would trigger more often and give Reed some more pop. Beast at 200 and Black Panther at 210 are less expensive and more important pieces to the Visionary team. Reed, while fun, would be hard to draft over them purely based on points. Reed at 200 would be a much better fit.
 
Re: The Book of Reed Richards (Visionary) - Playtesting

Thanks for the playtest!

Seems like we all agree he should go down in points. And I agree, he is more on par with Beast in terms of usefulness.

I was thinking about it, and Oracle at 110 is a solid pick for Illuminati, with contingency and initiative boost.
Reed brings the contingency, as well as range, mobility, synergy and glyphs.
So some question of how much those things push his cost while still making him a better pick for the team.

I agree the glyphs right now aren't super exciting. And I think if a more powerful glyph were to be created, like the Ultimate Nullifier, the Nullifier can have a line like:
"You must draft this glyph for its point cost to add it to a Glyph Pool."

One way to make the Fantastic part of the contingency have more use would be if Reed's team always had control over where the glyphs go flying.
 
Re: The Book of Mister Fantastic (Visionary) - Design

Maybe something like this? I know we're pressed for text space.
With Glyphs occupying the same space as the figure when equipped, doesn't the word snipping in Fantastic Contingency accomplish the same thing?
VISIONARY THEORETICIAN
Start the game with 4 Invention Equipment Glyphs of different types in a Glyph Pool, power-side up. After winning initiative, you may choose a glyph from Reed Richard's Glyph Pool and place it onto the card of a Visionary you control, or onto the card of a friendly adjacent Unique Hero. When losing Glyphs placed by this power, you may choose where the Glyph is placed.

FANTASTIC CONTINGENCY
When an Army Card you control has all of its figures destroyed, before removing that figure from the battlefield or a glyph from its card, you may:
• move any Order Markers from that card to any other card you control; and
• choose a figure equipped with, occupying, on or within 1 space of a glyph placed by Reed’s Visionary Theoretician special power and roll an unblockable attack die against it.
For pasteability:
Spoiler Alert!
 
Re: The Book of Reed Richards (Visionary) - Playtesting

He's got a lot of utility, something Beast and Panther don't have. I agree that he's not as essential as Black Panther, but I feel that way about most. But they all bring a piece of the puzzle. I think bringing him down to 220 makes sense.
 
Re: The Book of Reed Richards (Visionary) - Playtesting

Worth another set of tests at 220
 
Re: The Book of Reed Richards (Visionary) - Playtesting

I’d advise against adding more text to the card. He does enough stuff, if he needs a power up, maybe look at making him do some of that stuff better.
 
Re: The Book of Reed Richards (Visionary) - Playtesting

The two reasons the unblockables don't go off much is because the opponent places the glyphs places where it won't go off, and because it's only 1 roll for 1 glyph.
Choosing the spot for where the glyph is lost makes it more of an area-control power.
We could also have it be 1 roll for each glyph.

FANTASTIC CONTINGENCY
When an Army Card you control has all of its figures destroyed, before removing that figure from the battlefield or a glyph from its card, you may:
• move any Order Markers from that card to any other card you control; and
• choose a figure equipped with, occupying, on or within 1 space of any or all glyphs placed by Reed’s Visionary Theoretician special power and roll an unblockable attack die against it.

For pasteability:
Spoiler Alert!
 
Re: The Book of Reed Richards (Visionary) - Playtesting

What is the theme here on Fantastic Contingency generating auto-wounds from the glyphs he invents? My inclination was that it was a self destruct type of deal, to prevent his inventions from falling into the opponents hands and then used against him and his allies. If so, then I would try to lean into that more by removing the glyph from play in exchange for the chance of an auto-wound. Maybe have it trigger when it's knocked out of the hands of an ally, before it is placed somewhere new? That would make attacking your allies holding onto one of his inventions more dangerous to melee attack. Armies with lots of ranged attack options could avoid it of course, but then you don't blow it up and your team can pick it back up. Would need a 2nd trigger to prevent the opponent from wanting to pick it up then. IDK, maybe this is getting too text heavy of an idea.
 
Re: The Book of Reed Richards (Visionary) - Playtesting

I'd rather just go with regular Contingency Plan if we're feeling the unblockables don't come into play enough, simplifying text and lessening complexity, personally. Especially if we're aiming to lower his points.

If we're feeling he's just not worth drafting, then that's another problem entirely. If that were the case, I'd ditch the whole glyph pool direction and go with Invention Markers, that you place one additional one each time you win initiative, with each one providing another bonus to his team. Then you do stat buffs like adding to move, attack, defense, or disengage etc.

To me though, I'm fine with him at 220. I don't think he needs more usefulness or utility stacked on to what he's already offering. He can already do a lot. He's got great mobility. Great range potential. Doesn't have to worry about getting locked down or engagement preventing him from going after his target. He has an assortment of glyphs to bring for him and his team. He can recover OMs. And he can deal out the occasional unblockable if the situation works out.
 
Re: The Book of Reed Richards (Visionary) - Playtesting

FANTASTIC CONTINGENCY
When a glyph placed by Reed’s Visionary Theoretician special power would be lost, before removing it from a figure’s card, you may choose a figure on or within 1 space of that glyph and roll an unblockable attack die against it. When an Army Card you control has all of its figures destroyed, before removing that figure from the battlefield, you may move any Order Markers from that card to any other card you control.

What about this? It's almost the same, but the Glyph part of the contingency is contained to when that glyph would be lost, which probably makes more thematic sense. Only 1 roll for that one glyph, but still dangerous for the opponent to hold, and might go off more frequently.
 
Re: The Book of Reed Richards (Visionary) - Playtesting

That feels like 2 different powers smashed together. If you're dead set on that approach, then it's better off included in the first power since it's already tied to it, and then re-using Contingency Plan for the 3rd power.
VISIONARY THEORETICIAN
Start the game with 4 Invention Equipment Glyphs of different types in a Glyph Pool, power-side up. After winning initiative, you may choose a glyph from Reed Richard's Glyph Pool and place it onto the card of a Visionary you control, or onto the card of a friendly adjacent Unique Hero. If that glyph would be lost due to receiving a wound, before removing it from a figure's card, you may roll an unblockable attack die against a figure on or within 1 space of that glyph.

ELONGATION
Before moving Reed Richards normally, you may subtract up to 8 from his Move number to add that to his Range number for this turn. If you subtract at least 4, he also gains the Flying special power during that movement. Reed never takes any leaving engagement attacks and may attack non-adjacent figures while engaged.

CONTINGENCY PLAN
While Reed Richards is in play, when an Army Card you control has all of its figures destroyed, you may immediately remove any unrevealed Order Markers from that card and place them on any other card you control.
This feels more natural, has the benefit of now having a vetted power title for the last power so it's immediately recognizable, and would allow us to increase the font size a little too.
 
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