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The Book of Reed Richards (Visionary)

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toyhandle

Casing the Corners
The Book of Reed Richards (Visionary)

C3G PUBLIC EXCLUSIVE COLLECTION 37
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Comic PDF

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Mini PDF


The figure used for this unit is a Heroclix figure from the Marvel: Fantastic Four set.
It's model number and name are #066/Reed Richards, Fixer of Universes.​

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Character Bio - The smartest man alive. Though he is best known as the leader of the Fantastic Four, sometimes problems are better solved quietly, and without the involvement of his family. Reed Richards' inventiveness has allowed himself and the Illuminati to manage several Multiversal Threats at the same time, securing safety for a world in constant peril.
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-Rulings and Clarifications-
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-Combinations and Synergies-

Incoming Synergy:
Outgoing Synergy:
Immunities, Benefits, and Weaknesses:
  • N/A
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-Strategy, Tactics and Tips-
  • N/A
-Heroscapers Community Contributions-
 
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Re: The Book of Mister Fantastic (Visionary) - Design

NAME = REED RICHARDS

SPECIES = MUTATE
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = VISIONARY
PERSONALITY = BRILLIANT

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 5

MOVE = 8
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 4
DEFENSE = 6

POINTS = 200

VISIONARY THEORETICIAN
Start the game with 4 Invention Equipment Glyphs of different types in a Glyph Pool, power-side up. If you win initiative, you may choose a glyph from Reed Richard's Glyph Pool and place it onto the card of a Visionary you control, or onto the card of an adjacent friendly Unique Hero. When a figure within 9 clear sight spaces of Reed would lose that glyph, you may instead place that glyph on this card.

ELONGATION
Before moving Reed Richards normally, you may subtract up to 8 from his Move number to add that to his Range number for this turn. If you subtract at least 4, he also gains the Flying special power during that movement. Reed never takes any leaving engagement attacks and may attack non-adjacent figures while engaged.

CONTINGENCY PLAN
While Reed Richards is in play, when an Army Card you control has all of its figures destroyed, you may immediately remove any unrevealed Order Markers from that card and place them on any other card you control.

SUPER STRENGTH
 
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Re: The Book of Mister Fantastic (Visionary) - Design

Art:
Spoiler Alert!


Mini photos:
Spoiler Alert!

Background:
Spoiler Alert!
 
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Re: The Book of Mister Fantastic (Visionary) - Design

The red suit might be fun to mark this as a special Reed.
 
Re: The Book of Mister Fantastic (Visionary) - Design

Tinkered with this a bit after voting began.

First thing, I've been thinking about dropping Mister Fantastic in favor of just Reed Richards. Doesn't seem like Mister Fantastic gets used around these books. The Illuminati character pages just list him as Reed Richards, and when another Reed introduces himself to our Reed, he states that he prefers Reed to Dr. Richards, implying that is a trait common to all Reeds.
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Also, I would like to replace Contingency Plan for this:
FANTASTIC CONTINGENCY
When you lose initiative, you may immediately rearrange any unrevealed Order Markers on cards in your army. When an Army Card you control has all of its figures destroyed, before removing its last figure from the battlefield, you may immediately remove any unrevealed Order Markers from that card and place them on any other card you control.
Click to expand...

I'm not the biggest fan of the OG Contingency Plan, because it doesn't work when the figure with the Contingency power is destroyed. This would put him up there with other Big Brains like Batman and Lex, with their own Contingency powers.

Most importantly, it has the flavor of the smartest man alive coming up with a new idea when things don't go as planned.
In my experience playing Illuminati builds, OM placement tends to all go on the most durable character, like Doctor Strange, Doctor Doom or Doctor Hank Pym, with the hope of winning initiative, so the real flexibility comes in from Black Panther's Visionary bonding.
This would give some variety to the playstyle of the faction, and probably make them a little less dependent on Black Panther.
 
Re: The Book of Mister Fantastic (Visionary) - Design

I’m gonna go ahead and day that, after some more thought, I don’t think I’m in favor of Fantastic Contingency.

The whole macro theme of the Illuminati stuff (and Hickman’s F4 too) is these smart men getting too arrogant and overstepping themselves. That’s represented in the mechanics through having them really push for the initiative win, and getting punished hard when they fail.

I think giving Reed (the first or second most important member, probably) a mechanic that bypasses that feels a bit like it’s working against the theme of the faction as a whole. Getting caught off-guard when things go wrong feels correct for these characters - they push so hard in one direction (winning initiative) that when they fail, they stumble a bit.)

I actually think I’d prefer if the Contingency somehow allowed him to boost the next initiative roll instead of rearranging OMs. We’ve based this faction on winning initiative, but it really only has 3 ways to do that - Iron Man, who is pretty solid; Beast, who is very matchup dependent; and Strange, who is pretty swingy. I feel like giving them one more would help cinch that theme while also letting you vary your army builds a bit.

(This may all be a bit hypocritical when I’m planning to give Namor a “when you lose initiative” power, but I’d argue Namor has a lot more thematic claim to that kind of powwr than Reed does, as the one who butts heads with the other members constantly.)
 
Re: The Book of Mister Fantastic (Visionary) - Design

Truly a visionary design!

(real comments in a bit :p )
 
Re: The Book of Mister Fantastic (Visionary) - Design

I do worry a bit that the glyph thing will feel really swingy. Seems like a ton of pulling glyphs on and off of cards? What is the theme of them going from invented to uninvented? I wonder if it wouldn't be better to have one in the pool removed from the game when you lose initiative, rather than all going back to the pool? Then there's less toggling of hardware and less swing in terms of what's active on the battlefield.

I like the mechanics for Fantastic Contingency, but if the theme isn't hitting, I'm cool with Nobody's idea as well. I do worry that too many initiative boosts might make initiative feel *too* automatic, and just soup up the faction too much, so one to watch. I'd want the initiative boost to be somewhat light.
 
Re: The Book of Mister Fantastic (Visionary) - Design

I'm assuming the idea is the inventions are whipped up on the fly, but as a result aren't perfected enough for anything but a few uses before no longer working. If so, then I'd have the inventions removed from the game at the end of the round instead of returning to the glyph pool. I also like Bat's idea of removing one invention from the glyph pool when losing initiative. Combined with Nobody's theme notes on the faction, that seems like a good fit.
 
Re: The Book of Mister Fantastic (Visionary) - Design

FYI when you get into things that do free OM rearrangement you start pushing towards weird builds with Ozy and Brainy and such. OG Commander Rodgers nightmare stuff. Only doing it on initiative loss would probably be ok though, current Rodger is probably better than that.

Elongation giving flying after you subtract enough move is a bit hard to parse for me? Like totally get it equals big ol' stretchy legs and not actual flying as per standard... but like is not that also what the 8 move is? And subtracting is going into big ol' strechy arms that go places he is not? IDK feels a bit opposite or unconnected.

That feels to me more like a separate toggle. Like idk, you did a power more like this (with a base move of 2 or something):

Mister Fantastic never takes any leaving engagement attacks and may attack non-adjacent figures even while he is engaged. Before moving Mister Fantastic normally, you may do one of the following four times, you may pick the same or a different option each time:
-Add 2 to his Move number for this turn
-Add 2 to his Range number for this turn
-Mister Fantastic gains the Flying special power for the rest of this turn
-Maybe a forth thing.

But in general I find a lot of C3G shapeshifter powers thematically janky so take that with a grain of salt.
 
Re: The Book of Mister Fantastic (Visionary) - Design

I was going to say about the flying bit that having no upwards limit strikes me as off thematically ....
 
Re: The Book of Mister Fantastic (Visionary) - Design

I think reversing it would be way easier. So start off at Range 8, he can subtract to add to Move, subtract 4 or more and he gains Flying.

I don’t see a need for a cap personally.
 
Re: The Book of Mister Fantastic (Visionary) - Design

Didn’t get any resistance to dropping “Mister Fantastic” in favor of just Reed Richards. Alright to make that change?

Mini-wise, if the desire is for a mini that is of a special Reed, and for one with a beard, the “Reed Richards, Fixer of Universes” mini does both (first one in the bottom row).
You can make complete matching Heroclix F4 teams with all of the costumes except that one, and it is based on his look in Secret Wars (2015), where Reed, Black Panther and Namor take on God Emperor Doom.
Only issue is it’s on the pricier side, $16-25 on average due to being a chase figure. Hopefully it will keep going down though.

As far as Fantastic Contingency and the theme of pushing too far one way and being punished for it, if they lose initiative they still lose their inventions, lose their bonding, and Doctor Strange might be wounding one of the team and can’t teleport. They’re still punished. And if they’re re-arranging OMs, its because they are not in an ideal situation and need to make best with what they have. Seems exactly like what Reed would do, and the right thing for the no.1 or 2 guy in the Illuminati. He’s their most “hope for the best, plan for the worst” guy.

Making it yet another way to boost initiative feels a little unexciting and too one-note for a team comprised of people meant to represent the combined expertise of many diverse fields.
Having played Illuminati a lot, I’ve gone enough games where for whatever reason, be it luck, the opposing team, or multiplayer, I couldn’t seem to nab initiative, and it always feels like the team needed something else to do when that happens.

On the question of why do the invention glyphs return to the pool when losing initiative, admittedly its more gamey than straight theme, but there’s room to interpret why that might be happening. The tech teleporting in these inventions might be unstable, or operating through a limited window of time. They might be sent back to the lab to recharge, or it could be a precaution to prevent them from falling into enemy hands, as glyphs tend to go flying.
I’m for sure open to reducing swingyness of power level, but doesn’t seem difficult to keep track of, only being +1 or -all once per round.

I’ve never played with Lucius Fox, Scientist Supreme, or Apocalypse, so I’ll try getting experience with them in my next bouts of playtesting. They seem to be the most comparable.

That’s definitely a cool take on stretchiness, Soundwarp.
I’m happy with where the power is at currently, as adjusting the value pool between move and range feels stretchy, and he has the option of covering a vast horizontal distance if he needs to close a gap, or a great vertical distance, as 8 move can’t get him to the top of a ladderless fortress wall or higher. He can move in and tie people up, hang back and take pot shots, or both at the same time.
 
Re: The Book of Mister Fantastic (Visionary) - Design

I'm good with going full Reed. Fwiw, I like any mini with a beard.

I think I'd rather the glyphs stay on the cards the whole game than toggle on and off. I think that just sounds like a headache to track.
 
Re: The Book of Mister Fantastic (Visionary) - Design

I'll throw in my last plug here and say again that it'd be cool if he roped in Kings.

Also down with just Reed Richards, it'd be a fun distinction.

I'll be waiting in the wings to test Stretchy-man.
 
Re: The Book of Mister Fantastic (Visionary) - Design

Personally, I dig Mister Fantastic just because that’s where I’ll always look for him in the index. Not a huge deal, I just don’t see a big thematic need to drop it either.

It seems like there are a few people with critiques on the design, it might be worth seeing if you can find a middle ground with them.
 
Re: The Book of Mister Fantastic (Visionary) - Design

I would consider just letting him ignore elevation changes up to like 25 levels. Maybe drop move to 7 then.
 
Re: The Book of Mister Fantastic (Visionary) - Design

No upwards limit on the move does feel like too much of a stretch to me ... I'd be OK with higher than 25, but infinity feels off to me. Has he stretched into space before?
 
Re: The Book of Mister Fantastic (Visionary) - Design

In a comic book feature that ran in The Fantastic Four #358, Reed explained to the reader that he could stretch to a maximum length of 1500 feet (equivalent to five football fields) before his muscles could no longer support his weight.
Click to expand...
He starts to feel discomfort after stretching to about 1500 feet (457.2 meters). His actual limit is *much* longer (albeit unknown), however, being as in the very first issue he stretched at least 24.05 km.
Click to expand...
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Those are some examples I could find on stretchiness potential.
 
Re: The Book of Mister Fantastic (Visionary) - Design

OK, so in theory he should be able to get to the top of a tall skyscraper pretty reliably? The C3G Skyscraper is 34 levels for each two stories. Highest I've ever stacked them was three high (and some real stability issues after that), which would be 102 levels. I guess at that point you're dealing with niche enough scenarios to not waste the extra wording on specifying he can't go higher. :p

Edit: but if we set it anywhere, seems like 100? (Even though I bet Hulk could also Super Leap just as high as he could stretch. Maybe that's why this bothers me?)
 
Re: The Book of Mister Fantastic (Visionary) - Design

At that point just give him flying. :)
 
Re: The Book of Mister Fantastic (Visionary) - Design

Tornado said:
At that point just give him flying. :)
Click to expand...

Yeah, kinda seems like it. :p Wondering in retrospect if the Super Leap figures shouldn't have it as well?
 
Re: The Book of Mister Fantastic (Visionary) - Design

While I’m team “no cap”, I think something that’s worth considering is that this is all supposed to be happening within the span of a turn. Reed’s stretching usually takes a second, so I could see a cap being “this is how far Reed can stretch in 10 seconds” rather than an absolute demonstration of his abilities.
 
Re: The Book of Mister Fantastic (Visionary) - Design

"No cap." What a hip youth you are. :p
 
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