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The Book of Pelloth

spiteofthedice

spiteofthedice

no baby bump - false alarm!
The Book of Pelloth
Master Set III - Battle for the Underdark​




pelloth_original.jpg

If you cannot see the Army Card graphic, check Hasbro's Unit Page for stats and special powers, plus "character biography" and other non-game unit info.

Character bio: TBA
_________________________________________________________________
-Rulings and Clarifications-
Q. Lolth's Wrath : "Target"?​
Who is the target of Lolth's Wrath Special Attack? May Pelloth use Lolth's Wrath while engaged?​
A. There is no targeting involved. There is a chosen figure and affected figures. Because this uses attack dice we had to make it a special attack. While Pelloth is engaged, he can only use Wrath against the guy he's engaged with. Once Pelloth is no longer engaged, he can apply additional skulls to other figures. (-Grungebob, Rules Team)​
​
Q. Lolth's Wrath : Self-Lolth-ing​
May Pelloth destroy himself in order to inflict wounds on surrounding figures with Lolth's Wrath Special Attack?​
A. No​
​
_________________________________________________________________
-Combinations and Synergies-

Synergy Benefits Received

Synergy Benefits Offered
  • ORNAK: RED FLAG OF FURY AURA
    As a unique hero who follows Utgar, Pelloth may be activated by Ornak's RED FLAG OF FURY AURA.
​
​
Terrain Benefits Received
  • LURK IN SHADOWS: Shadow hexes (opponents must be adjacent to attack with normal attack).
​
C3V and SoV Custom Synergies
Spoiler Alert!
_________________________________________________________________
-Strategy, Tactics and Tips-
TBA​
​
_________________________________________________________________
-Heroscapers Community Contributions-
​
Power Ranking and Master Index
TBA



Unit Strategy Review
​
 
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I am very disapointed in pelloth (and most of the other dnd master set figures) the fact that he can't really do anything noteworthy without destroying 23.3333 points is just dumb I knew that would be one of his powers , but I just expected more.
 
I believe he can hit himself too right?

EDIT: Also why are we starting a book for a character before it even comes out?
 
No, per the Advanced FAQ a figure may never target itself with an attack, whether normal or special, unless stated otherwise on it's card. However, he could be one of the figures chosen to receive a wound if you were foolish enough to choose so.
 
killergoat72 said:
I am very disapointed in pelloth (and most of the other dnd master set figures) the fact that he can't really do anything noteworthy without destroying 23.3333 points is just dumb I knew that would be one of his powers , but I just expected more.
Click to expand...

You're right that he's very bad in most situations, but he will be strong against the expensive common squads and most of the unique squads. Being able to automatically destroy multiple Minions, Sentinels, Imperium, Protectors, Krav Maga, Nakitas, and the like makes him at least a decent counter draft.

You're going to want to cry when you whiff on the attack dice with him though...
 
The only complaint I have about his special is that he has no bonding or even a movement bonding with his squad. The fact that you have to move them practically adjacent on their turn and hope that they dont die during your opponents turn, I mean 3 defense won't last long if your attacking expensive common squads like minions to get your figures points worth, makes his ability really hard to set up.


dustin
 
vertigosmooth said:
The only complaint I have about his special is that he has no bonding or even a movement bonding with his squad. The fact that you have to move them practically adjacent on their turn and hope that they dont die during your opponents turn, I mean 3 defense won't last long if your attacking expensive common squads like minions to get your figures points worth, makes his ability really hard to set up.


dustin
Click to expand...

Yep, he would be much stronger with Deepwyrm Drow Movement Bonding or some other kind of positioning synergy. His army is a little clunky in the way that Omnicron Snipers and Repulsors are. But on the right terrain, Hide in Darkness might be enough to keep the Drow alive a while.
 
How did I miss that, but their are plenty of other heroes that it would do wonders against. He will be fun, but just that, fun.
 
rouby44 said:
killergoat72 said:
I am very disapointed in pelloth (and most of the other dnd master set figures) the fact that he can't really do anything noteworthy without destroying 23.3333 points is just dumb I knew that would be one of his powers , but I just expected more.
Click to expand...

You're right that he's very bad in most situations, but he will be strong against the expensive common squads and most of the unique squads. Being able to automatically destroy multiple Minions, Sentinels, Imperium, Protectors, Krav Maga, Nakitas, and the like makes him at least a decent counter draft.

You're going to want to cry when you whiff on the attack dice with him though...
Click to expand...
I could see Pelloth and the Drow as a good Rat-Screen stopper. Rats tend to spread out, and since they only have 1 attack, 2 with height, Deepwyrms have a decent chance of surviving a rare attack from Rats. And with Pelloth not far behind, he can blow up some rats.
 
Very thematic character. Awesome design. Hell, they even chose a decent D&D Mini to use. No complaints on this character.
 
This guy offers a nice twist on the "attack without LOS" concept. It's like Iskra summoning Rechets and having them converge on a point not within her LOS, leaving her nice and safe. Pelloth can hide behind a ruin the entire game poking enough Drow out to catch anybody trying to sneak around the edges. That helps his survivability a lot, although large figures just smash right through everything. All we need is cheap Drow with bonding, and he is a force. Hey, I can hope, right?
 
Every time you use the special attack, you are killing 23.3 points of your own figures in order to inflict an average of 1.5 wounds. It's fairly easy to figure out how many points each wound of a hero or squad figure is worth.

The "return on investment" of Pelloth's special is determined by this formula:

Code: 
1.5*(opposing card's cost)/(opposing card's wounds or squadsize) - 23.3

Against all but the cheapest figures in the game (the 10 point ninjas, the 40 point squads, and the 4-figure 50 point squads) you come out ahead in points, on average.

But this doesn't consider the opportunity cost of using Pelloth's special. That is, every time you use Pelloth's special attack, that's a turn you didn't spend attacking some other way. So even though using Pelloth's special to kill Marro Drones is better than passing on your turn, it's not better than attacking some other way.

When it comes to Pelloth's special attack, there are two relevant questions:

  1. Against what opponents is Pelloth's special attack so efficient that you would rather invest an OM in Pelloth than in a squad that can attack three or more times?
  2. Given that you have activated Pelloth, what opponents are worth attacking with Pelloth's special over his regular attack?

To answer this question, I consulted the "defensive point economy" post from mccombju's "sweet spot" thread. This tells us how many points, on average, an attack of various levels will usually kill.

To answer the first of my two questions, I compare Pelloth's special to three attacks of three, which is a reasonable baseline for what you can expect to get out of an order marker placed on a common squad. So, basically, you must compare the expected return I list above with the value in the first table of mccombju's post, multiplied by three.

While I didn't test every figure, I quickly figured out that it was pretty slim pickings for Pelloth. A few squad cases meet muster - stealth dodgers that can't be engaged, Einar Imperium in double auras, Minions and Sentinels, Nakitas, and Zettian Guards. Some other figures meet the standard when severely buffed up with Raelin/height. As for heroes... yeesh. Aside from cases where you're trying to avoid special defenses or super-buffed defenses, you've got, uh, DW7k, and... well, Warden 816 is about break even. That's it.

So, barring range against stealth dodge/concealment, or melee against agility/counterstrike, you should basically only plan to use Pelloth's special when either you're facing the toughest squads, or when the Deepwyrm Drow are down below a full squad and you're just clearing out the deadweight.

I'll tackle the second question later, but the short version is that, if you already have Pelloth activated, the opportunity cost of using his special is a lot lower.
 
dok said:
So, barring range against stealth dodge/concealment, or melee against agility/counterstrike, you should basically only plan to use Pelloth's special when either you're facing the toughest squads, or when the Deepwyrm Drow are down below a full squad and you're just clearing out the deadweight.

I'll tackle the second question later, but the short version is that, if you already have Pelloth activated, the opportunity cost of using his special is a lot lower.
Click to expand...

Interesting analysis. One thing the numbers don't really demonstrate is the situational advantage killing an opponent provides. Take for example the case when your facing a powerful hero near death (say Krug with 6 or 7 wounds on him). If you suspect that your opponents next order marker is on Krug (or arrow gruts), it would be beneficial for you to attack him in the manner which gives you the best chance to kill him off, even if it's not optimal from a points perspective. In other words, it's worth accepting a lower average net point differential if the chance of killing your target is increased.

The same is also true when dealing with squad figures who, if killed, would make subsequent activations less effective.
 
Lolth's Wrath is one heck of a gamble. My opponent last night smoked a full squad of his own Drow and only inflicted a couple wounds. Ana immediately healed one of them.

I hate to say it, but it seems like Lolth should get a little angrier and maybe use 4 dice. Granted that is potentially devastating, but as he is, Pelloth's SA is unreliable at best. The best way to use it seems to be blowing up squad figures, since it is a permanent loss of function that Ana cannot piece back together.

Thorian Speed on shadow spaces is nice, and makes up for his stats a little, but unfortunately it severely reduces Pelloth's versatility. There is definitely such a thing as a "Pelloth map." He does not have the stats to survive long without shadow terrain.

spiteofthedice said:
My opponent last night smoked a full squad of his own Drow
Click to expand...

Remember kids: Don't do Drow.
Brought to you by the Campaign for a Drow-free America.
 
I still have a question about Lolth's Wrath. Here is the text from the book:
Q. Lolth's Wrath : "Target"?
Who is the target of Lolth's Wrath Special Attack?

A. There is no targeting involved. There is a chosen figure and affected figures. Because this uses attack dice we had to make it a special attack. If Pelloth is engaged, he can use Wrath against the guy he's engaged with. Once Pelloth is no longer engaged, he can apply additional skulls to other figures. (-Grungebob, Rules Team)
Click to expand...

It seems as though he must wrath against people he's engaged with. But, the word can (bolded above) seems to make it as though he has a choice whether or not to wrath upon the figures to which he is engaged to.

So the question is: Does Pelloth first have to wrath upon the figures to whom he is engaged to or not?

EDIT: Nevermind, I checked the discussion thread for the target. But, the wording still needs to be changed, so as not to confuse people who need to look it up really quickly and don't have time to read comments.
 
Sujoah said:
I still have a question about Lolth's Wrath. Here is the text from the book:
Q. Lolth's Wrath : "Target"?
Who is the target of Lolth's Wrath Special Attack?

A. There is no targeting involved. There is a chosen figure and affected figures. Because this uses attack dice we had to make it a special attack. If Pelloth is engaged, he can use Wrath against the guy he's engaged with. Once Pelloth is no longer engaged, he can apply additional skulls to other figures. (-Grungebob, Rules Team)
Click to expand...
It seems as though he must wrath against people he's engaged with. But, the word can (bolded above) seems to make it as though he has a choice whether or not to wrath upon the figures to which he is engaged to.

So the question is: Does Pelloth first have to wrath upon the figures to whom he is engaged to or not?

EDIT: Nevermind, I checked the discussion thread for the target. But, the wording still needs to be changed, so as not to confuse people who need to look it up really quickly and don't have time to read comments.
Click to expand...

I dunno, Sujoah--the wording couldn't be much clearer. You have to destroy the engaged figure(s) before you can move to other ones.

Spite is the Greatest and He Fixed It said:
There is no targeting involved. There is a chosen figure and affected figures. Because this uses attack dice we had to make it a special attack. While Pelloth is engaged, he can only use Wrath against the guy he's engaged with. Once Pelloth is no longer engaged, he can apply additional skulls to other figures.
Click to expand...

Better?
 
Personally, I think the whole "who is targeted" question is a bit inside baseball and could be confusing to someone who just wants to know how the figure plays. I would simply make the (frequently asked) question be "Can Pelloth use Lloth's Wrath if he is engaged?". Then you can take out the first three sentences of Grungebob's answer, and just leave the rest (although I would replace "guy" with "figure").
 
There is currently a discussion on another thread about how his special attack works, and Rychean and the Rules Team are going to make a ruling soon...
 
Lolth's Wrath seems like a late game suicidal leap of faith since you have to kill a Drow. If you used it in the beginning of the fight, you're short several Drow when you need them.

Remember kids: Don't do Drow
Brought to you by a Drow-free America.
Click to expand...

:lol:




~Bladethorne
 
Pelloth VS Spiderman...

Does Spiderman get to roll his Spider Sense 11 against Lolth's Wrath Special?

The wording on both cards are conflicting and I just had a heated debate with my heroscape nemesis. The game is on hold until we can get a clear ruling...
 
twilkerson said:
Pelloth VS Spiderman...

Does Spiderman get to roll his Spider Sense 11 against Lolth's Wrath Special?

The wording on both cards are conflicting and I just had a heated debate with my heroscape nemesis. The game is on hold until we can get a clear ruling...
Click to expand...

Yes he gets to roll. Affected figures are considered to have been attacked, just not targeted.
 
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