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The Book of Mystique (II)

Viegon

Power abusing superplaytester
The Book of Mystique (II)

C3G MARVEL PUBLIC EXCLUSIVE COLLECTION 12
DEATH AND DECEPTION


C3G_MystiqueII_comic.png


Comic PDF

C3G_MystiqueII_mini.png

Mini PDF

The figure used for this unit is a Heroclix figure from the Giant Size X-Men set.
Its model number and name are #035 / Mystique.

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Character Bio - Throughout most of her history, Mystique has been a supervillain, founding her own Brotherhood of Mutants and assassinating several important people involved in mutant affairs. Mystique herself is a mutant, a shapeshifter whose natural appearance includes blue skin and yellow eyes. At one point, she mentions that she is over 100 years old. Mystique is the mother of the villain Graydon Creed, the X-Men hero Nightcrawler, and adoptive mother of the heroine Rogue. She is forced to abandon Nightcrawler, but raises Rogue for a number of years, and the two women have mixed feelings towards one another. (copied from Wikipedia)
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-Rulings and Clarifications-
  • Q: Can I activate a Mutant Sidekick after revealing an Order Marker on Mystique and using Outcast Assault if I roll a 1-7? It says "nothing happens".
  • A: No, it doesn't matter what the result of the roll was, simply making the roll means you are "using" Outcast Assault and therefore cannot activate any additional figures that turn.
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-Combinations and Synergies-


Incoming Synergy:
Outgoing Synergy:
  • Mystique may activate up to 2 Outcast Heroes with her Outcast Assault special power. Current Outcast Heroes.
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-Immunities, Benefits, and Weaknesses-

Immunities
  • N/A
Benefits
  • N/A
Weaknesses
_________________________________________________________________

-Strategy, Tactics and Tips-
  • N/A
-Heroscapers Community Contributions-
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Re: The Book of Mystique (II) (Design Phase)

NAME = MYSTIQUE
SECRET IDENTITY = RAVEN DARKHÖLME

SPECIES = MUTANT
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = OUTCAST
PERSONALITY = DECEPTIVE

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 5

MOVE = 6
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 5
DEFENSE = 5

POINTS = 200


IMPERSONATE
Before placing Order Markers for each round, you may choose an opponent’s medium Unique Hero on the battlefield. While the chosen Hero is on the battlefield, Mystique cannot be attacked by, targeted or chosen for special powers by, or take any leaving engagement attacks from any figure in the chosen Hero’s army except for the chosen Hero.

OUTCAST ASSAULT
After revealing an Order Marker on this card and before taking a turn with Mystique, if you did not choose a hero for Impersonate this round, you may roll the 20-sided die.
  • If you roll 1-7, nothing happens;
  • If you roll 8-18, you may immediately take a turn with one other Unique Outcast Hero you control; or
  • If you roll 19 or higher, you may immediately take a turn with up to two other Unique Outcast Heroes you control.
Any figures taking a turn with Outcast Assault must be within 8 clear sight spaces of Mystique before moving. After using Outcast Assault, you may not take any additional turns with other figures you control.


Spoiler Alert!
 
Re: The Book of Mystique (II) (Design Phase)

Possible Mini Backgrounds
Spoiler Alert!


Possible Comic Art
Spoiler Alert!


Alright, so what we’ve got in the SP is the design that was voted on, but during the vote some changes were discussed in the Public Design Post:
1) There was a general agreement that Mystique’s Life, Attack, and Defense numbers should be moved up to 5. Range was also suggested, but I believe this design works better as melee; my reasons are mostly summed-up in the second paragraph HERE. Any additional thoughts here?
2) Bats voiced that the power name “Shapeshift” was too close to Super-Ape’s (Igor) “Shapeshifting”. The only alternate suggestion made in the Public Design Post was “Shapeshifting Impersonation”, to make it similar to Chameleon’s “Impersonate”, which has a very similar mechanic. Any other suggestions?
3) Multiple members in the Public Design Post felt the rolls for Outcast Assault were too high, which I agreed with. My current preference here is to change the rolls to 1-7 (nothing happens), 8-17 (1 Outcast), 18+ (2 Outcasts). What this achieves is it makes her a much more consistent leader, almost always activating 1 Outcast, with the potential for none or 2. Thoughts? Remember, Mystique is intended to rely on Destiny, who adds 3 to all her rolls.
4) It was agreed that this Mystique’s cost should be aimed higher than the originals, my preference is for the 185-215 range, and preferably being a 5-cost so she rounds out Destiny’s points. Assuming some or all of the above changes are made, her cost will most definitely come up.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Criticism?

On another note, I’ll be leaving on vacation on the 28th for two weeks. While I’ll have internet access and time to check in, I’ll be on the road most of the 28th and my overall time will be somewhat limited.
 
Re: The Book of Mystique (II) (Design Phase)

I could see the roll dropped one or maybe two, but no more than that. If you have a 7+ activation, add +3 from destiny and you have only a 4+ which I think is a tad overpowered, especially if you get three turns on a 15+.
 
Re: The Book of Mystique (II) (Design Phase)

Alright, so what we’ve got in the SP is the design that was voted on, but during the vote some changes were discussed in the Public Design Post:
1) There was a general agreement that Mystique’s Life, Attack, and Defense numbers should be moved up to 5. Range was also suggested, but I believe this design works better as melee; my reasons are mostly summed-up in the second paragraph HERE. Any additional thoughts here?

At least Life of 5 to match the original. I do think increasing Attack and Defend make sense. It's either that or give her Master Martial Artist or equivalent.

2) Bats voiced that the power name “Shapeshift” was too close to Super-Ape’s (Igor) “Shapeshifting”. The only alternate suggestion made in the Public Design Post was “Shapeshifting Impersonation”, to make it similar to Chameleon’s “Impersonate”, which has a very similar mechanic. Any other suggestions?
How about copying Chameleon's "Impersonate" completely and then giving Mystique a short third power that allows her to Impersonate a Small or Large figure as while.
3) Multiple members in the Public Design Post felt the rolls for Outcast Assault were too high, which I agreed with. My current preference here is to change the rolls to 1-7 (nothing happens), 8-17 (1 Outcast), 18+ (2 Outcasts). What this achieves is it makes her a much more consistent leader, almost always activating 1 Outcast, with the potential for none or 2. Thoughts? Remember, Mystique is intended to rely on Destiny, who adds 3 to all her rolls.
The numbers as they stand means she has less then 50% chance to ever command a second Outcast. With this being her leading power, it makes it difficult to draft her. However with Destiny it is not too bad. I do believe a small decrease to this is needed. Maybe 1-9 (nothing), 10-17 (1 outcast) and 18+ (2 outcasts).
4) It was agreed that this Mystique’s cost should be aimed higher than the originals, my preference is for the 185-215 range, and preferably being a 5-cost so she rounds out Destiny’s points. Assuming some or all of the above changes are made, her cost will most definitely come up.
I like the idea of having a higher cost Mystique.
 
Re: The Book of Mystique (II) (Design Phase)

I could see the roll dropped one or maybe two, but no more than that. If you have a 7+ activation, add +3 from destiny and you have only a 4+ which I think is a tad overpowered, especially if you get three turns on a 15+.

But one additional activation isn't overly strong. Xavier gives you 2 other Mutant activations automatically, and Mastermind gives you an additional Mutant activation automatically. Mystique, on the other hand, is limited to Outcasts, and will only give you an additional activation most of the time. Compare her to Mister Fantastic, even with Destiny boosting it to a 5+ for 1 outcast, her "nothing happens" roll is still higher then Mr. Fantastic's, and Mr. Fantastic can get up to 3 additional activates with stronger units.

The big thing with Mystique is the potential 2 activations in addition to hers, that's the roll that needs to be kept in check in my opinion, the one additional activation can be balanced easily at any roll (and the lower and more consistent, the better). Remember, I'm fine with her cost creeping as high as 215.

At least Life of 5 to match the original. I do think increasing Attack and Defend make sense. It's either that or give her Master Martial Artist or equivalent.

As was discussed in the Public Design Post, I'd like to keep Mystique as a 2-power card (which Bats and others agreed with).

How about copying Chameleon's "Impersonate" completely and then giving Mystique a short third power that allows her to Impersonate a Small or Large figure as while.

Personally, I don't see how that's any better. Either way, you're "using up" a power name, and with your suggestion you're just adding more wording and complexity, plus the potential for confusing players. I'd much rather sacrifice theme and go with just Impersonate that go with Impersonate and an additional power like that (though I still don't see the problem with making it just one new power).
 
Re: The Book of Mystique (II) (Design Phase)

Put me down as supporting melee, upped stats (Life, Attack, and Defense) and a slight lowering of the roll. The ability is already weaker than Mr. Fantastic's with lowered amount of Heroes that can be activated using it, and unless it was lowered to 7 (with Destiny) the roll wouldn't be as easy as Mr. Fantastic's. Plus, since you're okay with her being up to 215 and the general consensus is that she needs to be more expensive than the other Mystique... :shrug: Plus, that's ignoring Professor X, who is 220 and gets two free activations with any Mutant every turn, without having the Outcast restriction.
 
Re: The Book of Mystique (II) (Design Phase)

Why does she have a leadership type power?

I'm not really getting the need for this power set on her as an version 2.0. :shrug:
 
Re: The Book of Mystique (II) (Design Phase)

That seems to be the whole point of having a Mystique v2, A3n, and the reason people voted for her - seems cool to me. :)
 
Re: The Book of Mystique (II) (Design Phase)

Why does she have a leadership type power?

I'm not really getting the need for this power set on her as an version 2.0. :shrug:

Mystique has organized her own Brotherhood of Evil Mutants on more than one occasion, and led the team when they were Freedom Force. Mystique plays manipulator/leader from time to time (Messiah Complex also comes to mind), usually acting on some warning or prophecy from Destiny (so heavier Destiny synergy makes sense), which makes this a suitable direction for a Mystique 2.0, I think.
 
Re: The Book of Mystique (II) (Design Phase)

Yes to melee and all of your suggestions, Viegon. That activation roll has to be really low to justify Mystique over Xavier, especially since you need to add in Destiny's points to boost the roll.

I actually think that d20 roll could go even lower but that can be determined in playtesting. :)
 
Re: The Book of Mystique (II) (Design Phase)

Keep in mind that Xavier can't take a turn along with his chosen mutants, but Mystique can. I don't think the roll needs to keep being bumped up too much, as she's potentially more powerful!
 
Re: The Book of Mystique (II) (Design Phase)

Her name is Darkholme, not Darhholm.

Don't forget the umlaut. Darkhölme

Good catch, thanks. Is that something I can change during the breathing period? Right now I just added it to the changes that need to be made.

Put me down as supporting melee, upped stats (Life, Attack, and Defense) and a slight lowering of the roll.
Yes to melee and all of your suggestions, Viegon. That activation roll has to be really low to justify Mystique over Xavier, especially since you need to add in Destiny's points to boost the roll.

Cool.

Why does she have a leadership type power?

I'm not really getting the need for this power set on her as an version 2.0. :shrug:

As others have said, Mystique has been a leader of the Brotherhood (and other teams) numerous times, that's the most iconic Mystique I know. Not doing a Mystique with leadership abilities would be not accurately representing the character, in my opinion (and we've already done the assassin aspect of the character with the first design).

In addition, many people have voiced that the Outcasts don't feel like a very cohesive team right now, and I've seen a large amount of support for an Outcast leader.

Keep in mind that Xavier can't take a turn along with his chosen mutants, but Mystique can. I don't think the roll needs to keep being bumped up too much, as she's potentially more powerful!

Yes, but Xavier's works automatically, Mystique's (when boosted by Destiny and therefor being more cost then Xavier) only works on a 15+, that's a huge difference. Most of the time, Mystique's power won't be any stronger then Mastermind's, and Mastermind is only 90 points. Remember, both Xavier and Mastermind also have very strong supportive powers and work with a lot more units then Mystique.
 
Re: The Book of Mystique (II) (Design Phase)

But Mystique is much more of a physical threat than both Xavier and Mastermind. ;)
 
Re: The Book of Mystique (II) (Design Phase)

But Mystique is much more of a physical threat than both Xavier and Mastermind. ;)

More of a threat than Mastermind, yes, but only a slight advantage over Xavier. Psychic Defense X is a very strong defensive power that puts his survivability on par with hers (even at 5 Life/ Defense, I'd say). He has a 3 Range/3 Attack SA as compared to her melee attack of 4 or 5. Advantage Mystique, but I don't think it's really that big of one.

I like the proposed changes to up her stats and drop the rolls slightly. There will still be better Mutant leaders, but Mystique will be a different, fun, very thematic choice for the Outcasts. :up:
 
Re: The Book of Mystique (II) (Design Phase)

But Mystique is much more of a physical threat than both Xavier and Mastermind. ;)

Agreed, and that's why she's going to be around a 100 points more then Mastermind. As compared to Xavier, who will end up just slightly more costly then her, I'll say again: the difference between automatically activating any 2 Mutants you control and potentially activating 2 Outcasts in addition to Mystique is huge. Xavier has a 100% chance of getting two turns for every OM, Mystique's chance for three activations is only 15% (30% with Destiny). Your argument is that Mystique's leadership is better, but that's only true a small portion of the time, and even then the limit of who it works with is quite big. Also, for Mystique to reach that potential of 3 activations in one OM, she has to be out in the battle herself and taking wounds, meaning she's not going to last nearly as long as Xavier who can sit 10 spaces away, protected by Kitty, Angel, Deadpool, etc.
 
Re: The Book of Mystique (II) (Design Phase)

I'm with Viegon. :up:
 
Re: The Book of Mystique (II) (Design Phase)

I think activating one Outcast on a 7-17, two on an 18+ would work best. I also agree with upping her stats to 5/6/1/5/5.
 
Re: The Book of Mystique (II) (Design Phase)

I think activating one Outcast on a 1-7,

Do you mean "nothing happens" on a 1-7, and activates 1 Outcast on a 8-17?

On another note, if it's the 2 Outcast activation that's worrying people, how about we start that roll at a 19+ (16+ with Destiny)? So we'd have:

LIFE = 5

MOVE = 6
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 5
DEFENSE = 5

POINTS = 205?

SHAPESHIFT
Before placing Order Markers for each round, you may choose an opponent’s small, medium, or large Unique Hero on the battlefield. While the chosen Hero is on the battlefield, Mystique cannot be attacked by, targeted or chosen for special powers by, or take any leaving engagement attacks from any figure in the chosen Hero’s army except for the chosen Hero.

OUTCAST ASSAULT
After revealing an Order Marker on this card and before taking a turn with Mystique, if you did not choose a hero for Shapeshift this round, you may roll the 20-sided die.
  • If you roll 1-7, nothing happens;
  • If you roll 8-18, you may immediately take a turn with one other Outcast Hero you control; or
  • If you roll 19 or higher, you may immediately take a turn with up to two other Outcast Heroes you control.

One thing I just realized is that Outcast Assault has no clear sight/range limitation on it. Would people prefer we limit that? Maybe "within 8 clear sight spaces"?
 
Re: The Book of Mystique (II) (Design Phase)

Oops, sorry! Stupid mistake, I plainly wasn't thinking. I meant 7-17 - post edited. I'll just sit in my corner and be quiet now. :)

EDIT: I'm starting to wonder if having one Outcast activated on a 4/5-17 might be better, though, as she'd be more useful without Destiny, but you'd still need Destiny to make her properly powerful and reliable. I just don't think she'd be at all useful without Destiny right now.
 
Re: The Book of Mystique (II) (Design Phase)

I'm starting to wonder if having one Outcast activated on a 4/5-17 might be better, though, as she'd be more useful without Destiny, but you'd still need Destiny to make her properly powerful and reliable. I just don't think she'd be at all useful without Destiny right now.

Personally, that doesn't bother me one bit. Any good Outcast army will be built around Destiny anyways; I can't imagine being disappointed that I have to put Destiny in my Outcast army, because she'll already be in it. Plus, it's very thematic, Mystique and Destiny have a lot of history and generally when Mystique is leading she's acting on Destiny's visions.
 
Re: The Book of Mystique (II) (Design Phase)

I do see what you mean, but this way she'd still get a major boost from Destiny (close to certainty of taking a turn with one Outcast and a reasonable chance of taking a turn with two) while not being completely useless without her - I'd almost always take them together either way, but that would make her slightly more viable without Destiny. Has she ever successfully led the Brotherhood without Destiny in the comics? If so, I'm not sure she should be absolutely reliant on her - though I don't actually know whether she has. Also, I'm still skeptical of having a chance of just taking a turn with your melee, eminently killable leader figure while she's unsupported - it's not even as though Mystique can hide behind Invisible Woman for a turn the way Mr. Fantastic can. That won't make for a very fun game if your D20 luck is off.
 
Re: The Book of Mystique (II) (Design Phase)

I do see what you mean, but this way she'd still get a major boost from Destiny (close to certainty of taking a turn with one Outcast and a reasonable chance of taking a turn with two) while not being completely useless without her - I'd almost always take them together either way, but that would make her slightly more viable without Destiny.

While there isn't a problem with that approach, I do worry it'll push Mystique's cost too high, I'd prefer to keep it under Professor X's cost. I also think you're exaggerating a bit munch, Mystique won't be "completely useless" without Destiny. Even if you say her leadership doesn't work without Destiny (which I disagree with), she's still as offensive as units like Luke Cage and Batman for about the same cost, and she's got Shapeshifting Impersonation to compare to their Impenetrable Skin and Evasive Strike. Mystique doesn't need to be leading every single turn like Xavier does to be useful, even a single turn with Mystique can do some damage, and additional turns with Outcasts are just icing on the cake (very, very nice icing, admittedly).

Has she ever successfully led the Brotherhood without Destiny in the comics? If so, I'm not sure she should be absolutely reliant on her - though I don't actually know whether she has.

To my knowledge, she hasn't; Mystique has always relied on Destiny.

Also, I'm still skeptical of having a chance of just taking a turn with your melee, eminently killable leader figure while she's unsupported - it's not even as though Mystique can hide behind Invisible Woman for a turn the way Mr. Fantastic can. That wont make for a very fun game if your D20 luck is off.

Again, I believe you're exaggerating. Mystique won't die in a single attack, 5 defense/5 life is solid survivability and plenty strong enough to hold up against a few attacks. Sure, if you ended up charging Mystique all out by herself she'd die pretty quickly, but unless your die rolls are absolutely terrible, that's not going to happen. If you're really worried about, draft Angel, Kitty, Mastermind, or Deadpool to protect her, or get Black King or Molly to act as a shield.

Mystique is no different then any other 20-sided die based unit in the game, and trying to push her rolls as low as possible will just make her unbalanced or unthematically strong. If testing were to show she's weak, I'd be willing to look at it then, but I don't feel comfortable starting her rolls as low as 4/5+ before testing.
 
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