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The Book of Mon-El

MrNobody

MrNobody

Just A Head
The Book of Mon-El

C3G DC PUBLIC EXCLUSIVE COLLECTION 20
FUTURE VISION

C3G_Mon-El_comic.png

Comic PDF

C3G_Mon-El_mini.png

Mini PDF

The figure used for this unit is a Heroclix figure from the Superman and the Legion of Superheroes set.
Its model number and name are #005b / Mon-El.​

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Character Bio - Mon-El is a Daxamite superhero inspired by Superboy. His powers are very similar, although he is vulnerable to lead instead of Kryptonite. Superboy put him in the Phantom Zone when Mon-El was fatally poisoned, and Mon-El stayed there until Brainiac 5 discovered a cure in the 30th Century. This lead Mon-El to become a member of the Legion of Super-Heroes.

When the villain Glorith temporarily erased Superboy from time, Mon-El took his position in history. In this new Glorithverse, Mon-El began his career at L.E.G.I.O.N. with the name of Valor. The Valor legacy made him a religious idol in the future where he arrived. He has also been a member of the Green Lantern Corps and the Justice League. His longest romantic partner is Shadow Lass. During New Krypton, he temporarily replaced Superman as the protector of Metropolis. (DC Database)
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-Rulings and Clarifications-
  • N/A
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-Combinations and Synergies-

Incoming Synergy:
Outgoing Synergy:
  • Mon-El's Inspirational Valor special power allows him to add to the Attack and Defense numbers of other Legionnaires you control.
Immunities, Benefits, and Weaknesses:
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-Strategy, Tactics and Tips-
  • Karate Kid's Super Karate makes him a great partner for Mon-El.
-Heroscapers Community Contributions-
 
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Re: Book of Mon-El (Breathing Period)

NAME = MON-EL
SECRET IDENTITY = LAR GAND

SPECIES = DAXAMITE
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = LEGIONNAIRE
PERSONALITY = VALIANT

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 7

MOVE = 7
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 6
DEFENSE = 7
POINTS = 390

HEAT VISION SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 4. Attack 2 + Special.
Choose a figure to attack and roll 2 attack dice, or 3 attack dice if the chosen figure is an Android or destructible object. For each skull rolled, roll one additional attack die. Continue rolling an additional attack die for each additional skull rolled until no skulls are rolled. The defending figure rolls defense normally.

INSPIRATIONAL VALOR
If Mon-El inflicts a wound on an opponent's figure with a normal or special attack, all other Legionnaires you control are considered Inspired for the remainder of the round. Inspired Legionnaires add 1 to their Attack and Defense numbers.

DAXAMITE DEFENSE
When rolling defense dice against a normal attack from a figure that is not a Kryptonian or Daxamite, if at least one shield is rolled, all blanks rolled count as additional shields.

FLYING

SUPER STRENGTH

Original Post
Spoiler Alert!
 
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Re: Book of Mon-El (Breathing Period)

Okay, here's my initial thoughts;
1.I lowered his life to put him closer to Superboy's level. I'm not against further stat drops, but he is basically a Kryptonian so I want to keep him in that general area.
2. I'm hoping I can get him to 340 so he can be an alternative to Clark in a lot of builds. (That was his role in the comics for a long time too so it fits.)
3. I really want to try to get Daxamite Defense back in there again, if possible. It just feels so thematically correct to me.
4. I believe Spidey was saying he'd want Inspirational Valor to be more like a viking spirit and only apply to one figure. I could see that happening, and it might be a bit OP as is.
5. Lead Antidote might not be 100% thematically accurate. He generally doesn't carry it on him as far as I remember, and only needs to take it every 24 hours. However, I do think the lead weakness is a big thematic element that needs to be covered in some manner. I'm happy with how it works now but I wanted to throw it out there in case it would be a problem.
6. Speaking of Lead Antidote, I'm thinking of dropping it down to 2 wounds instead of 3. Thoughts?

EDIT: There are two Mon-El minis. Ronin has pics of one, but it's the second one I really want. I'll link Ronin's pics for now but I want to change to the other one if I can. I'll see about purchasing it, but I'm not sure yet.
 
Re: Book of Mon-El (Breathing Period)

What did you have for Daxamite Defense?
 
Re: Book of Mon-El (Breathing Period)

DAXAMITE DEFENSE
When rolling defense against a normal attack from a figure that is not a Kryptonian or Daxamite, if at least one shield is rolled, all blanks rolled count as extra shields.
 
Re: Book of Mon-El (Breathing Period)

Don't forget to link new design threads in promotions and welcome threads. :)

I'm not ready to make my own comments, but I will share that @A3n expressed an interest in keeping all Legionairres to 2 powers, except for Ultra Boy. He can speak more on this, but I wanted to share that insight from an earlier conversation.
 
Re: Book of Mon-El (Breathing Period)

I'll echo Scapey's sharing of A3N's comments. As the primary mastermind behind the Legionnaires we have, I think his comments should carry some extra weight. I think 2 powers would be really nice and fit the aesthetic, but I think 3 is OK if the powers are shorter or familiar. (i.e. Heat Vision SA)
 
Re: Book of Mon-El (Breathing Period)

Agreed. Short and concise or vetted would be best.
 
Re: Book of Mon-El (Breathing Period)

Okay, I'm generally against a hard 2 power limit because I think it won't be the most beneficial thing for every Legionnaire. Ultra Boy is the big one, but there are a few others where I think 2 powers would hold back the design. Also, Superboy has 3 so it's already a rule that's been broken, sort of.

However, if that's the angle everyone wants to go with for Mon-El, what if we ditched Heat Vision and rolled Daxamite Defense and Lead Antidote into a single Daxamite power?
 
Re: Book of Mon-El (Breathing Period)

I'd roll Daxamite Defense and Lead Antidote into one power. If you riff off of Kryptonian Defense it will feel familiar and still work to make it new. I think the Valor power if made more similar to the Vikings would also feel familiar and then you would be able to get your 3 powers. IMO, no way this card gets 4 powers.
For that combo, maybe something like this:
DAXAMITE DEFENSE
When rolling defense against a normal attack from a figure that is not a Kryptonian or Daxamite and within 4 spaces, if at least one shield is rolled, all blanks rolled count as extra shields.
Click to expand...
This way most guns (Range 5 or more, or Special Attacks) would still get through his defense.
 
Re: Book of Mon-El (Breathing Period)

It's not a, he can't have 3 powers, just trying to maintain the aesthetic. Which is to say to keep the number of 3 power designs to a minimum and if there are 3 to keep them fairly simple and concise.

By the way, I'm loving your ideas for simplifying him :up:
 
Re: Book of Mon-El (Breathing Period)

MrNobody said:
However, if that's the angle everyone wants to go with for Mon-El, what if we ditched Heat Vision and rolled Daxamite Defense and Lead Antidote into a single Daxamite power?
Click to expand...

That would've been my suggestion. :up:
 
Re: Book of Mon-El (Breathing Period)

Spidey'tilIDie said:
I'd roll Daxamite Defense and Lead Antidote into one power. If you riff off of Kryptonian Defense it will feel familiar and still work to make it new. I think the Valor power if made more similar to the Vikings would also feel familiar and then you would be able to get your 3 powers. IMO, no way this card gets 4 powers.
For that combo, maybe something like this:
DAXAMITE DEFENSE
When rolling defense against a normal attack from a figure that is not a Kryptonian or Daxamite and within 4 spaces, if at least one shield is rolled, all blanks rolled count as extra shields.
Click to expand...
This way most guns (Range 5 or more, or Special Attacks) would still get through his defense.
Click to expand...

I like that take, Spidey. :up:
 
Re: Book of Mon-El (Breathing Period)

Mon El is basically Superman's level so there isn't issue if he turns out more powerful than Superboy. My concern would be if they are priced similarly would one make the other redundant.

Love the idea of Inspirational Valor. I think (as you have noted) that it may be overpowered. However I think Spidey's idea to make it only affect 1 figure doesn't feel inspirational enough. Maybe when a Legionnaire has an OM on it's card he feels inspired. This would give an opponent something to think about whether to go at the figures that aren't going to be activated that round. :shrug:

I like Daxamite Defense idea. Not sure if it needs the range limitation.

As for the Lead Antidote, I don't feel it's necessary. Also I don't understand how you are tying the mechanics to the theme? Lead Antidote is something he has to take every 24 hours. It's time based not damaged based. Apart from that, it's a story device that is rarely used, even less so than Kryptonite in Superman's stories and we didn't put the Kryptonite weakness on Superman's cards.

As the others have noted the plan for the Legionnaires was to keep them streamlined & clear of purpose. In the comics the Legion has a large roster of heroes & those selected for a mission are done so based on the skill set required for the mission. The Legion is like a toolbox. And each hero is a specific tool for a specific job. I have a few more of their numbers already written up & all only have 2 powers each with the exception of Ultra Boy (but IamBatman has even suggested a way for him to be only 2 powers). So while it's not a hard & fast rule I believe it is achievable for the greater majority of Legionnaires. As Mon El is on par (or greater) than Superboy, 3 powers may not be unreasonable if they are all relevant.
 
Re: Book of Mon-El (Breathing Period)

Yeah, I think Superboy is probably the more appropriate template for him here than most of the Legionnaires. I wouldn't mind seeing the Inspirational Valor power, Daxamite Defense, and Heat Vision back, personally.
 
Re: Book of Mon-El (Breathing Period)

I would probably echo the feeling regarding Lead Antidote being unnecessary. Both it and Kryptonite are more plot device than legitimate part of character and characterization. And with lead, there is literally no way to simply, elegantly, and appropriately incorporate it that doesn't create weird thematic flaws. With the wounding version, it could create situations where someone like Superman or Mongul could literally punch him into dying of lead poisoning, which is silly. Even if you incorporate it into Daxamite defense, you run into weird situations thematically as well, where a close range gun doesn't hurt him like lead could (without the antidote) but a long range arrow will.

Aside from that, I think I'd almost rather see Mon-El's Valor power based on when he's alive rather than dead. Thematically he was essentially a replacement for Superboy in the Legion and originally first appeared in modern setting learning from and working with Superboy, so I think that inspiration should be something present for him as a living Legionnaire. As far as I know, he's really only ever "died" twice, once for not taking the anti-lead antidote in a timely fashion, and the other was him actually being killed, but he was revived fairly shortly afterward by the offending villain. So I'd stray on the side of living Valor vs dead Valor.
 
Re: Book of Mon-El (Breathing Period)

A3n said:
Mon El is basically Superman's level so there isn't issue if he turns out more powerful than Superboy. My concern would be if they are priced similarly would one make the other redundant.

Love the idea of Inspirational Valor. I think (as you have noted) that it may be overpowered. However I think Spidey's idea to make it only affect 1 figure doesn't feel inspirational enough. Maybe when a Legionnaire has an OM on it's card he feels inspired. This would give an opponent something to think about whether to go at the figures that aren't going to be activated that round. :shrug:

I like Daxamite Defense idea. Not sure if it needs the range limitation.

As for the Lead Antidote, I don't feel it's necessary. Also I don't understand how you are tying the mechanics to the theme? Lead Antidote is something he has to take every 24 hours. It's time based not damaged based. Apart from that, it's a story device that is rarely used, even less so than Kryptonite in Superman's stories and we didn't put the Kryptonite weakness on Superman's cards.

As the others have noted the plan for the Legionnaires was to keep them streamlined & clear of purpose. In the comics the Legion has a large roster of heroes & those selected for a mission are done so based on the skill set required for the mission. The Legion is like a toolbox. And each hero is a specific tool for a specific job. I have a few more of their numbers already written up & all only have 2 powers each with the exception of Ultra Boy (but IamBatman has even suggested a way for him to be only 2 powers). So while it's not a hard & fast rule I believe it is achievable for the greater majority of Legionnaires. As Mon El is on par (or greater) than Superboy, 3 powers may not be unreasonable if they are all relevant.
Click to expand...
Thanks for popping in, everybody was saying you're the guy I needed to hear from the most.

If he's really closer to adult Supes I guess there's no problem bringing his stats up. My memory on that is a bit blurry (tbh it is with a lot of Legion stuff), but honestly that sounds about right. If we don't want him to steal the spotlight from Superboy maybe he can go up a bit in points. 380 seems like the maximum to me.

Yeah it would be nice to have the Inspirational Valor affect more than one figure. I like your suggestion.

For Lead Antidote, I was trying to capture the feel of stories where Mon-El is out doing something for 23 hours and he's about to run out of antidote. He has a vial of it on him, but if he gets hit hard enough it shatters, and he's in trouble. I agree that it's not really how it works in the comics, like I said in my initial thoughts. I suppose we could just go without a lead weakness power. Maybe include some small clause in Daxamite Defense just for flavor text?
LordVenoc said:
I would probably echo the feeling regarding Lead Antidote being unnecessary. Both it and Kryptonite are more plot device than legitimate part of character and characterization. And with lead, there is literally no way to simply, elegantly, and appropriately incorporate it that doesn't create weird thematic flaws. With the wounding version, it could create situations where someone like Superman or Mongul could literally punch him into dying of lead poisoning, which is silly. Even if you incorporate it into Daxamite defense, you run into weird situations thematically as well, where a close range gun doesn't hurt him like lead could (without the antidote) but a long range arrow will.

Aside from that, I think I'd almost rather see Mon-El's Valor power based on when he's alive rather than dead. Thematically he was essentially a replacement for Superboy in the Legion and originally first appeared in modern setting learning from and working with Superboy, so I think that inspiration should be something present for him as a living Legionnaire. As far as I know, he's really only ever "died" twice, once for not taking the anti-lead antidote in a timely fashion, and the other was him actually being killed, but he was revived fairly shortly afterward by the offending villain. So I'd stray on the side of living Valor vs dead Valor.
Click to expand...
I agree with the idea that representing it through range is a bit wonky. Probably over half the ranged attacks in the game aren't lead bullets, so it feels weird that he can get shot down by them. I would disagree that the lead weakness isn't a major part of Mon-El's life; it's the reason he got stuck in the Phantom Zone for 1,000 years, and the Legion making him an antidote is one of the reasons he joined them. But I agree with the idea that it's not 100% needed on the card, especially if the implementation is wonky.

I think you and I are kind of thinking in the same direction with Inspirational Valor honestly.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------​
So with all that in mind, what about a take like this?
NAME = MON-EL
SECRET IDENTITY = LAR GAND

SPECIES = DAXAMITE
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = LEGIONNAIRE
PERSONALITY = VALIANT

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 7

MOVE = 7
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 6
DEFENSE = 6
POINTS = ???

HEAT VISION SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 4. Attack 2 + Special.
Choose a figure to attack and roll 2 attack dice, or 3 attack dice if the chosen figure is an Android or Destructible Object. For each skull rolled, roll one additional attack die. Continue rolling an additional attack die for each additional skull rolled until no skulls are rolled. The defending figure rolls defense normally.

INSPIRATIONAL VALOR
While there is a revealed Order Marker on this card, any Legionnaire figure you control with an Order Marker on its card adds 1 extra die to its normal attack and 1 extra die to its defense when that figure is within clear sight of Mon-El.

DAXAMITE DEFENSE
When rolling defense against a normal attack from a figure that is not a Kryptonian or Daxamite, if at least one shield is rolled, all blanks rolled count as extra shields. When Mon-El rolls defense dice against Lead, he rolls 3 fewer defense dice.

FLYING

SUPER STRENGTH
Click to expand...
So his Valor becomes something more like Cap's power, where he's leading the charge and inspiring the others that way. Daxamite Defense has a small bit of flavor text referencing Lead from the Metal Men, but I could easily drop that if needed. And his stats got swapped a little to bring him back up to the power level A3n feels like he belongs at.
 
Re: Book of Mon-El (Breathing Period)

I really like the Range work around, but I'm biased. :p Inspirational Valor is looking good now, but to differentiate him from Cap Steve, what if it was ,"While there is an Order Marker on this card, ..." Gives him more utility and differentiates from Cap. He's naturally gonna be someone you frontline, with his stats.
Speaking of his stats, he shouldn't inspire himself, so I'd consider Attack and Defense at 7, maybe just Defense. It would serve to make him similiar to Supes but different.
 
Re: Book of Mon-El (Breathing Period)

I like the defense and attack down at 6 like it's there if you want to keep him under 400. You don't want him to be a beat stick completely on Superman's level with a leadership power as good or better than Cap's (the current version is about as good as Cap's and Spidey's suggestion would make it even better than Cap's and make it stack really well with Cap's).
 
Re: Book of Mon-El (Breathing Period)

If we did a range workaround, I’d probably like to see it work against SAs too as a trade-off. Maybe A3n can confirm/deny, but I’m pretty sure Mon-El isn’t weak against magic like Supes is. So maybe it doesn’t work on range at all, but works against all adjacent attacks, special or normal? Still think I’m leaning towards my version, but I have a bias too. :lol:

Working with Cap would obviously be a problem, but luckily the Legion is more resistant than most factions to Cap because of their OM needs. Still, I can see how OM1 on Cap, OM2 on Mon-El, OM3 on any Legionnaire, then X on Cos could be really OP.
 
Re: Book of Mon-El (Breathing Period)

MrNobody said:
I would disagree that the lead weakness isn't a major part of Mon-El's life; it's the reason he got stuck in the Phantom Zone for 1,000 years, and the Legion making him an antidote is one of the reasons he joined them. But I agree with the idea that it's not 100% needed on the card, especially if the implementation is wonky.
Click to expand...

Given at least half the point of his original inception was to replace Superboy on the Legion, I would dispute that this is thus a "major plot-device mechanic of his backstory" rather than a "significant piece of his day-to-day characterization. But we are on the same important page regardless of these semantics.

Pretty sure Daxamites are also vulnerable to magic like Kryptonians.

Might it be interesting to have Mon-El's Valor maybe tied to revealing an X marker? Maybe something like:

Inspirational Valor
After revealing an Order marker on a Legionnaire you control, if Mon-El is engaged, you may reveal an X Order marker on this card. While there is a revealed Order Marker on this card, any Legionnaire figure you control with an Order Marker on its card adds 1 extra die to its normal attack and 1 extra die to its defense when that figure is within clear sight of Mon-El.
Click to expand...

That would make it a bit harder to set up and prevent Cosmic Boy just hogging the X marker, but still combo well with Cosmic Boy in effective builds.
 
Re: Book of Mon-El (Breathing Period)

I was gonna suggest doing the Valor like the boost from Cap :up:
 
Re: Book of Mon-El (Breathing Period)

It’s ultimately semantics and doesn’t really matter, but Mon-El was created in the 60s and didn’t really replace Superboy until the early 90s. DC actually jumped through a lot of hoops to make sure Superboy stayed a part of the Legion’s story even after Crisis where Superboy was written out of Clark’s history. But yeah, I think the lead poisoning thing is something that plays out over long arcs vs every single battle he’s in, so I think we both agree it doesn’t need as huge of a place on the card.

Looking back, I think you may be right about magic. I re-read the original Mordru story when I was trying to design him, and both Clark and Lar are pretty scared of him. Mon-El was also out of action/“dead” during the Magic Wars so I just can’t recall many examples of him fighting magicians. I thought I remembered him taking down Mordru, but on looking it up I think I was just getting it confused with when he fought the Time Trapper.

The X Marker could be a good way to do it. My worry would be putting the X on Mon-El and the 3 on Cos, but I still think that’s more balanced than my take. Obviously it would have to be if there was a revealed X not any revealed OM cause that would just be a straight-up better version.
 
Re: Book of Mon-El (Breathing Period)

MrNobody said:
If we did a range workaround, I’d probably like to see it work against SAs too as a trade-off. Maybe A3n can confirm/deny, but I’m pretty sure Mon-El isn’t weak against magic like Supes is. So maybe it doesn’t work on range at all, but works against all adjacent attacks, special or normal? Still think I’m leaning towards my version, but I have a bias too. :lol:

Working with Cap would obviously be a problem, but luckily the Legion is more resistant than most factions to Cap because of their OM needs. Still, I can see how OM1 on Cap, OM2 on Mon-El, OM3 on any Legionnaire, then X on Cos could be really OP.
Click to expand...

I'm not so much worried about the OM1/OM2 combo currently, especially with the 6/6 stats. I was more worried about Spidey's idea to make the boost when there's any OM on Mon-El, because then you can go OM1 on Cap and "X" on Mon-El and get +2/+2 on the Legionnaires on OM2 and OM3.
 
Re: Book of Mon-El (Breathing Period)

Good point, Bats. I do still think that Attack 6, Defense 7 makes him feel more "Super". For Nobody's tweak how about this:
DAXAMITE DEFENSE
When rolling defense against an attack from a figure that is not a Kryptonian or Daxamite and within 4 spaces, if at least one shield is rolled, all blanks rolled count as extra shields.
Click to expand...
 
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