The Book of Megatron

[Yodaking]

Well what medium are they do you think? Maybe we could reference something like Medium 5 or larger?

Would this be acceptable to everyone? Zabu is Medium 4, Lockjaw is Large 4, not sure how big the actual Ravage & Laserbeak toys will end up being but we could fudge it a bit if necessary and make them both Medium or Large 4 as well. Then just require the size to be 5 or more.

PISTOL TRANSFORMATION SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 4. Attack 4, 6, or 10.
Instead of attacking with Megatron, choose a friendly figure sized 5 or greater within 2 clear sight spaces of Megatron. That figure attacks this turn using this special attack. Start the attack with 10 attack dice. You may attack with 4, 6, or 10 attack dice until all 10 attack dice have been rolled. This special attack may only be used once per round and if Megatron is not engaged.

The reason why I'm a little more leery of having just anyone use the SA compared to the Shrink Ray Gun is due to how much more powerful this SA is. Rolling 10 attack dice is really good, the requirement to have a specific kind of ally around helps keep it in check somewhat.

 

[IAmBatman]

The problem with Tactical Double Attack is that this special attack would also grant Diamondback an attack with her normal attack or one of her special attacks after she uses that special attack.

When Diamondback attacks with a normal or special attack, she may attack one additional time with a normal or special attack.

If you don't mind that synergy, it's fine, but she'd be a pretty potent and obvious pairing with him.

 

[Yodaking]

The problem with Tactical Double Attack is that this special attack would also grant Diamondback an attack with her normal attack or one of her special attacks after she uses that special attack.

When Diamondback attacks with a normal or special attack, she may attack one additional time with a normal or special attack.

If you don't mind that synergy, it's fine, but she'd be a pretty potent and obvious pairing with him.

Ah, okay I thought you were worried about using Megatron's SA twice. I'd actually be fairly unconcerned with Diamondback getting to use one of her other SA's after using Megatron's SA. I have never had much success with her and she's easy enough to take out (ie. life/def combo) that it wouldn't happen but once or twice in a game. I believe Dredd can make two SA's per round too can't he? I'm sure T would be happy to hear people are drafting Dredd more often.

 

[IAmBatman]

Yes, he'd also pair well.

I guess if you're cool with that synergy it's OK.

I'd think the competitive builds then would be Megatron with Diamondback, Judge Dredd, and some figures that can throw turn bonding in the mix as well.

Ms. Marvel, Megatron, and Judge Dredd could lay down some pretty heavy fire power in one turn, for instance.

 

[Soundwarp SG-1]

Marvel Megatron shouldn’t have flying.

 

[Tornado]

My only concern would be that Hershey will be allowing Dredd to fire a SA with 7 attack, paired with Megatron, that is going to be some serious fire power. I would hate to see Hershey's price go up because of Megatron.
I suppose I can try to get her started after Anderson finishes and we can try to get it worked out before Megatron releases.

 

[IAmBatman]

Will Hershey doing that be tied to an Order Marker on Hershey?

 

[Scapemage]

I would love to see Hershey next from you T.

The thread title could use an update here.

I'm not worried about a 10-dice attack with cool mechanics, I am more worried about it being combined with other things. Maybe all that's needed is a clause saying no other attacks can be made this turn.

 

[quozl]

How is Ms. Marvel getting any extra benefit?

 

[quozl]

I think shutting down all shenanigans is best:

PISTOL TRANSFORMATION SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 4. Attack 4, 6, or 10.
Instead of attacking with Megatron, choose a friendly figure sized 5 or greater within 2 clear sight spaces of Megatron. That figure attacks this turn using this special attack and cannot use any special powers on their card. Start the attack with 10 attack dice. You may attack with 4, 6, or 10 attack dice until all 10 attack dice have been rolled. This special attack may only be used once per round and if Megatron is not engaged.

 

[Yodaking]

Not sure I want to include 'after revealing an OM on this card' language in the SA, I feel he should be able to use it as needed when working with an OM manager like Zemo considering all the other restrictions (once per round, unengaged, required friendly figure sized 5 or larger within 2 spaces of him). Were you planning on having Hersey issue orders to Megatron then (without the you can't take other turns with additional figures language)? Then again, general bonding guys like Red Skull don't allow you to chain turns anymore do they, so he's already being restricted to only using it when revealing an OM on his card by default after we switched to quozl's wording.

Marvel Megatron shouldn’t have flying.

See that is what I was thinking too, but he seemed to fly around in robot mode in the cartoon from time to time and Lazy was convinced he had flying. I couldn't recall if I had ever seen him fly in the comic book or not. I had the same question about Soundwave, I think it was Comic Vine that listed one of his powers as flying but I feel as though he usually turned into the tape deck and jumped into a cockpit in the comic books. One of the articles about him also described him having Laserbeak pick up the boombox and fly away with it. That doesn't mean he can't fly though, just he choose to be a smaller target or less visible/stealthy while moving.

 

[Yodaking]

I think shutting down all shenanigans is best:

PISTOL TRANSFORMATION SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 4. Attack 4, 6, or 10.
Instead of attacking with Megatron, choose a friendly figure sized 5 or greater within 2 clear sight spaces of Megatron. That figure attacks this turn using this special attack and cannot use any special powers on their card. Start the attack with 10 attack dice. You may attack with 4, 6, or 10 attack dice until all 10 attack dice have been rolled. This special attack may only be used once per round and if Megatron is not engaged.

Yeah, that would work for me if it satisfies everyone else, even if I was looking forward to using Diamondback more often.

 

[Soundwarp SG-1]

Marvel Megatron shouldn’t have flying.

See that is what I was thinking too, but he seemed to fly around in robot mode in the cartoon from time to time and Lazy was convinced he had flying. I couldn't recall if I had ever seen him fly in the comic book or not. I had the same question about Soundwave, I think it was Comic Vine that listed one of his powers as flying but I feel as though he usually turned into the tape deck and jumped into a cockpit in the comic books. One of the articles about him also described him having Laserbeak pick up the boombox and fly away with it. That doesn't mean he can't fly though, just he choose to be a smaller target or less visible/stealthy while moving.

Cartoon Megs (like all cartoon Decepticons, and the Autobots in the first few episodes) can fly in robot mode, but that's irrelevant to Marvel Megs. Robot Mode flight is not a thing in the comics outside of characters with a specific power that lets them do so like Shockwave. Marvel Megs once was defeated by Ratchet specifically because he lacked flight powers and was then out of action for like 6 issues after falling off a cliff (that actually leads into his amnesia adventure with Joey Slick you mentioned earlier).

Marvel Soundwave (or IDW Soundwave for that matter) also shouldn't have flying.

 

[Yodaking]

Alright, I can update it when we hit 24 hours. Thanks Soundwarp! Be sure to stop by the workshop and let me know what you think of my first pass as Soundwave and 2 of his tapes.

 

[Yodaking]

Re: The Book of Megatron - Breathing

Oh, and I took a look. Both Zemo cards don't mention the no taking a turn with additional figures so Megatron could work with them and still use his SA. Those aren't bonding powers though but rather OM management ones. Red Skull though does restrict anyone he bonds with since he is taking a full turn first, so if Red Skull triggered a turn from Megatron then Megatron could not use the SA on that turn as it requires taking a turn with a 3rd figure.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: The Book of Megatron - Breathing

Wait, the special attack requires taking a turn with the figure who's using it? I thought they were getting an out of turn attack?

What's the most recent text on it?

 

[Yodaking]

This is what I was working from, but I guess I was misinterpreting how that would play in the rules then.

Wouldn't it be cleaner to just have the other figure do the attacking?

PISTOL TRANSFORMATION SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 4. Attack 4, 6, or 10.
Instead of attacking with Megatron, choose a friendly figure within 2 clear sight spaces of Megatron. That figure attacks this turn using this special attack. Start the attack with 10 attack dice. You may attack with 4, 6, or 10 attack dice until all 10 attack dice have been rolled. This special attack may only be used if Megatron is not engaged.

Maybe it should read more like this?

PISTOL TRANSFORMATION SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 4. Attack 4, 6, or 10.
Instead of taking a turn with Megatron, choose a friendly figure with a size of 5 or larger within 2 clear sight spaces of Megatron. That figure must take a turn in which they may not move and can only use this special attack. Start the attack with 10 attack dice. You may attack with 4, 6, or 10 attack dice until all 10 attack dice have been rolled. This special attack may only be used once per round and if Megatron is not engaged.

It would further restrict it by not letting Megatron run up and shoot someone if he can't move either.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: The Book of Megatron - Breathing

Maybe something like this?

PISTOL TRANSFORMATION SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 4. Attack 4, 6, or 10.
Megatron cannot attack with this special attack. A figure you control with a height of 5 or larger within 2 clear sight spaces of Megatron may take a turn in which they may not move and can only use this special attack. Start the attack with 10 attack dice. You may attack with 4, 6, or 10 attack dice until all 10 attack dice have been rolled. This special attack may only be used once per round and if Megatron is not engaged.


Honestly, don't see the need for the height restriction. I say let anybody fire him. Maybe restrict it to heroes if you're too worried about weirdness.

 

[Yodaking]

Re: The Book of Megatron - Breathing

Any last thoughts or concerns here before I update the SP and call for a vote?

It seems as though I'm the only one bothered by Ravage firing the pistol, so I'm thinking I'll just drop it outside of a non-tiny restriction. I believe Rocket Raccoon is small and would really enjoy playing with a toy/weapon like Megatron. Also I don't believe Megatron actually needs someone to pull the trigger for him when in pistol mode, pretty sure I've seen him fire all on his own as a pistol, he just needs someone to hold him steady and point the barrel in the right direction, which Ravage could do with his mouth. Just cutting the Fire Ants and Ant-Man out of the mix.

 

[Ronin]

Re: The Book of Megatron - Breathing

I think I preferred johnny's two-power approach. Something like this, working off Bats' last suggestion and incorporating the non-tiny thing:

PISTOL TRANSFORMATION
Once per round, instead of taking a turn with Megatron, you may choose a Hero you control within 2 clear sight spaces of Megatron that is not tiny. Take an immediate turn with the chosen Hero, during which it cannot move and must use Megatron's ??? Special Attack.

??? SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 4. Attack 4, 6, or 10.
Start the attack with 10 attack dice. You may attack with 4, 6, or 10 attack dice until all 10 attack dice have been rolled. Megatron cannot attack with this special attack.

 

[quozl]

Re: The Book of Megatron - Breathing

Let's not confuse people by using two different wording for the same things. Let's go with precedent and use this (if you want the two power version). Also, you're still forgetting to shut down special powers which could trigger from attacking.

PISTOL TRANSFORMATION
Once per round, instead of taking a turn with Megatron, you may attack with a Hero you control within 2 clear sight spaces of Megatron that is not tiny. During that attack, it must use Megatron's ??? Special Attack and cannot use any other special powers.

 

[Yodaking]

Re: The Book of Megatron - Breathing

Since Tron was looking at a two power card, it works here breaking them up. I only worry about setting precedent that future Transformer designs have to follow. His pistol mode is pretty unique in itself though, so someone transforming into a car, or even Shockwave turning into a huge cannon, shouldn't face the same issues where another unit is needed for it to work. Anyone have any opinions on what the Special Attack should be called then?

 

[Ronin]

Re: The Book of Megatron - Breathing

Let's not confuse people by using two different wording for the same things.

If we don't want to confuse people, we should probably drop the shadow ruling that 'attack' sometimes does not mean 'attack'.

Also, you're still forgetting to shut down special powers which could trigger from attacking.

D'oh! Good catch on that.

 

[quozl]

Re: The Book of Megatron - Breathing

If we don't want to confuse people, we should probably drop the shadow ruling that 'attack' sometimes does not mean 'attack'.

Agreed! But if we do that, we need to fix it everywhere, not just one card.

 

[Ronin]

Re: The Book of Megatron - Breathing

Fair enough! I'd roll with quozl's wording for now, YK. We can pull the rules stuff into a different thread and hash it out there so this thread stays focused.

More on topic, I'm not worried about setting a wider precedent here: Megatron's transformation is pretty unique and we already have precedent from Wreck-Gar and Prime that there isn't necessarily a 'one size fits all' solution to transformations.

Not sure about the SA name for the two-power version.