The Book of Maxima

[johnny139]

Re: The Book of Maxima (Design Phase)

I was hoping thag putting "on its card" would make it work around that sort of thing, but Sinister is definitely a concern since he straight up overwrites it...

 

[Viegon]

Re: The Book of Maxima (Design Phase)

I'm cool with that version.

Sinister is the only unit that would effect Seeking a Mate, since he specifically overrides the stat number on the card. All other boosting powers simply modify the number or add more dice. I think we can pretty easily cover that in an FAQ.

 

[Yodaking]

Re: The Book of Maxima (Design Phase)

I was just wondering if you wanted to include them from a theme perspective. Would she not want to pursue the Blob if he started the game tied with the highest att. number but then saw his att. number rise to the highest one in play due to a permanent (not temporary like from Bane) stat boost?

 

[johnny139]

Re: The Book of Maxima (Design Phase)

I'd be in favor of it, but it's been argued down as too complex. Unfortunately.

 

[Yodaking]

Re: The Book of Maxima (Design Phase)

Oh, okay.

 

[johnny139]

Re: The Book of Maxima (Design Phase)

Okay, so I'm going with that wording. Before I move to playtesting, though, I'll put out a last call for Psychokinesis alternatives - just in case anyone has some clever ideas that trump my not-quite-so-clever-but-workable one.

 

[Viegon]

Re: The Book of Maxima (Design Phase)

PSYCHOKINESIS
Instead of attacking with Maxima, you may choose a figure within 4 clear sight spaces of Maxima and roll a combat die. If you roll a skull, you may either inflict 1 unblockable wound on that figure or, if that figure is small or medium, you may place that figure on any empty space within 4 spaces of its original placement. Placed figures will not take any leaving engagement attacks.

Pretty much the same, but it's a little shorter on text.

 

[johnny139]

Re: The Book of Maxima (Design Phase)

So I've been thinking about Psychokinesis (my version and Viegon's) and am torn.

My version will be easier to tweak up and down for balance and has more dials to turn in general for possible future reuse. But it's wordy, draws a lot of card space.

The Viegon version is simpler and feels more supplemental, which is a HUGE plus to me. But it's going to be harder to tweak and combat dice being used for non-wounds is a bit weird.

 

[Viegon]

Re: The Book of Maxima (Design Phase)

We've used combat dice for non-wounding plenty before (Regeneration and Vertigo's powers come to mind, also the new Trickster), so that doesn't feel weird to me. Adjustability/reusability could be an issue though.

We could swap the combat die for the D20 in my version, though it's pretty close to the original then (still shorter on text I believe).

 

[quozl]

Re: The Book of Maxima (Design Phase)

Yep, not much difference:

PSYCHOKINESIS 11
Instead of attacking with Maxima, you may choose a figure within 4 clear sight spaces of Maxima and roll a twenty-sided die. If you roll an 11 or higher, you may either inflict 1 unblockable wound on that figure or, if that figure is small or medium, you may place that figure on any empty space within 4 spaces of its original placement. Placed figures will not take any leaving engagement attacks.

 

[johnny139]

Re: The Book of Maxima (Design Phase)

That's true - that'd definitely resolve most problems... I'll probably go with that version if we have no other objections or ideas.

 

[johnny139]

Re: The Book of Maxima (Design Phase)

So, I was planning on proposing for Initial at this point, but I feel like it'd be prudent to tag the CRB: @dok @Dysole @Soundwarp SG-1 @weebaer

I know that I (and probably most of us) underestimate the value of figure movement AND of auto-wounds. With that in mind, I want Psychokinesis to be a slightly subpar choice - that, in a majority of cases (somewhere between 60% and 80% of the time), you WOULDN'T want to use it, and would prefer to swing with her normal attack.

With that in mind, my main question for you guys is: how unlikely would that roll have to be to make it a niche power rather than the marquee? 13+? 15+? 17+?

 

[johnny139]

Re: The Book of Maxima (Design Phase)

EDIT: Man, it keep duping for me! I blame the website.

 

[japes]

Re: The Book of Maxima (Design Phase)

EDIT: Man, it keep duping for me! I blame the website.

It has been happening a lot lately to me as well and I know I've seen Ronin deleting some of his double posts as well.

 

[Dysole]

Hmm

Once per turn is honestly the best thing to do to make it not the marquee power. Gut call is 15-17 for sure but that may be too high with a once per turn usage.

~Dysole, eyeballing it

 

[Soundwarp SG-1]

Re: The Book of Maxima (Design Phase)

15 should be fine, and 13 wouldn't be too crazy, any higher than that and the power is basically just taking up space on the card for no reason I'd think.

 

[johnny139]

Re: The Book of Maxima (Design Phase)

Hmm... I think I'll start with it at 13, then, and trend upward pending tests. I was thinking 16 is probably the highest it'd be worth going then.

So, with that being said, I PROPOSE WE MOVE TO INITIAL PLAYTEST!

 

[TrollBrute]

Re: The Book of Maxima (Design Phase)

Hmm... I think I'll start with it at 13, then, and trend upward pending tests. I was thinking 16 is probably the highest it'd be worth going then.

This sounds fine to me. I think 13 may end up being low, but as long as you and the other testers are watching out for that, I'm good with starting at 13.

Yea

 

[Zettian Juggernaut]

Re: The Book of Maxima (VOTE for Initial Playtest)

Yea

 

[Yodaking]

Re: The Book of Maxima (VOTE for Initial Playtest)

yea

 

[japes]

Re: The Book of Maxima (VOTE for Initial Playtest)

Yea

 

[Viegon]

Re: The Book of Maxima (VOTE for Initial Playtest)

Yea

 

[johnny139]

Re: The Book of Maxima (VOTE for Initial Playtest)

So, this passed... uhh, a while ago. Like I said elsewhere, hopefully should get this done next weekend.

 

[johnny139]

Re: The Book of Maxima (VOTE for Initial Playtest)

C3G INITIAL PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Maxima

Heavy Hitter or Mid-Level Hero Tests

Spoiler Alert!

TEST 1
Map: Minnesota Mudlands (Custom Map)
Units: Maxima (350 Points) vs. Green Lantern: Hal Jordan (350 Points)
Summary: Green Lantern wins; 1 Wound, 2 Rounds. Green Lantern is tough to crack, so she focuses on her attempts at autowounds. But 13 is tough to get consistently - she only deals one before being pounded into the dirt.

TEST 2
Map: Minnesota Mudlands (Custom Map)
Units: Maxima (350 Points) vs. Wonder Man (350 Points)
Summary: Wonder Man wins; 2 Wounds, 2 Rounds. Maxima gets some GREAT hits in, but unfortunately they're blocked (or sent back at her) by Ionic Imbalance. Overall this one came down to the d20 - definitely either way.

TEST 3
Map: Minnesota Mudlands (Custom Map)
Units: Maxima (350 Points) vs. Drax (350 Points)
Summary: Maxima wins; 6 Wounds, 2 Rounds. Drax has the advantage on attack and defense, Maxima has the edge in life, both of them do some real damage but Maxima comes out on top. Barely.

TEST 4
Map: Minnesota Mudlands (Custom Map)
Units: Maxima (350 Points) vs. Wendigo (350 Points)
Summary: Maxima wins; 6 Wounds, 2 Rounds. Another very close one! Their stats, in practical terms, are identical, so not super surprising.

TEST 5
Map: Minnesota Mudlands (Custom Map)
Units: Maxima (350 Points) vs. Super-Skrull: Kl'rt (340 Points)
Summary: Super-Skrull wins; 4 Wounds, 2 Rounds. Rock Wall gives him the edge here - it deals auto-wounds and throws Maxima off of height, letting him get some good hits in. It's enough to win him the game ultimately.

___________________________________________________________​

Army Test
Map: Minnesota Mudlands (Custom Map)
Units: Maxima, Spider-Man: Peter Parker (600 Points) vs. Superman, Batman (600 Points)

Spoiler Alert!

Summary

ROUND 1: Superman is Maxima's Mate. They meet up first, but Spider-Man yanks Supes away. So Maxima swings at Batman, but he's Evasive and damages her.

ROUND 2: Lots of dodgings and swinging and moving around. Maxima takes a wound, but Superman takes three (two from Spidey and one from Max).

ROUND 3: Spider-Man pulls away Superman with his Web Slinging, and rolls FIVE skulls! Superman only gets one shield! So goodnight Sueprman... they start to focus on Batman, who deals a wound to Spider-Man via Evasion but can't quite crack Maxima's defense. She blasts him from afar for two.

ROUND 4: Batman manages to deal out a wound to each of them, and takes one from Maxima's Psychokinesis.

ROUND 5: Maxima whiffs her first two Psychokinesis rolls and takes two wounds from on well-placed punch. But she finally hits one and finishes Bats off.

Who won?: Maxima and Spidey win; 5 Wounds on Maxima, 2 Wounds on Spider-Man, 5 Rounds.

Thoughts: Very fun game, actually - the auto-movement between Supes, Maxima, and Spidey made things very dynamic. She was pulled around the battlefield after Supes, used her brute strength on them, and finished the game by using her psychokinetic powers to bypass Batman's superior skill... fun and thematic. So far 13 feels good for the roll on that one.

___________________________________________________________​

Army Test
Map: Minnesota Mudlands (Custom Map)
Units: Maxima, Superman II (800 Points) vs. Iron Man MKV, Iron Man: Hulkbuster, Iron Man MKII (800 Points)

Spoiler Alert!

Summary

ROUND 1: Superman is Maxima's Mate. The Iron Men come in first, and Superman flies in swinging - his Heat Vision deals a wound to Hulkbuster. Maxima tags along and engages MKV. He flies away, though, and blasts with his Pulse Bolt... four wounds land on Maxima. Hulkbuster engages her, but Supes follows up. More Heat Vision burns throgh, bringing him up to 4 Wounds. But she's forced to follow her Mate, and leaves height - the Buster takes advantage and pounds her for 2, leaving her at 1 Life.

ROUND 2: Maxima gets another huge hit from the Hulkbuster, taking five wounds and going down hard. The Iron Men focus on Superman now, bringing him up to 2 Wounds as MKV blasts from afar and MKII pulls him to and fro. Supes burns MKII up to 3 Wounds, though..

ROUND 3: Superman has awful luck - he whiffs twice with his Heat Vision, while the Hulkbuster punches and MKV blasts from afar. One huge hit from the Hulkbuster deals five wounds, then a decent blast from afar finishes off the Last Son of Krypton.

Who won?: Iron Armory wins; 3 Wounds on MKII, 4 Wounds on Hulkbuster, MKV unharmed, 3 Rounds.

Thoughts: Maxima did relatively little here. She moved in with Superman (very cool), but this proved to be her undoing as she just can't resist following him around when on the battlefield. This let the Iron Men take advantage of height and blow her away. This distracted them from Superman for the first round and a half, but ultimately didn't do much to help.

___________________________________________________________​

Army Test
Map: Minnesota Mudlands (Custom Map)
Units: Maxima, Ms. Marvel, Polaris (875 Points) vs. Jean Grey, Phoenix, Dark Phoenix (900 Points)

Spoiler Alert!

Summary

ROUND 1: Ms. Marvel is Maxima's Mate. Polaris comes in and locks her down with a Magnetic Bubble, while her teammates move in. But Jean breaks lose and throws Lorna around - no damage, though, and Jean takes two from a blast from Carol.

ROUND 2: The girls meet up on the far side, but Jean yanks Carol away (and deals her a wound in the process). But Maxima goes next, and despite being held down by a Psionic Grip, Psychokinesises her away off of height. She does no damage on her turn, and Ms. Marvel finishes her off at the end of the round (Maxima getting burned in the transition).

ROUND 3: Phoenix comes out swinging - her Psionic Blast hits and wounds Carol and Maxima, then she hits Maxima for two. Maxima flies back, deals two wounds, and regroups. But Phoenix lets loose another Psionic Blast and kills Maxima from height. Polaris bubbles up Ms. Marvel and hits Jean for one.

ROUND 4: Another Psionic Blast, with another attack, is enough to kill Carol. It's all on Polaris... who isn't doing great. She takes two wounds, one from Psionic Blast and one from an attack.

ROUND 5: While her defenses hold up for a while... finally, Polaris goes down.

Who won?: Rising Phoenix wins; 3 Wounds on Phoenix, Jean Grey destroyed, Dark Phoenix unharmed, 5 Rounds.

Thoughts: Maxima did alright here - dealt some wounds here and there, got a lot of free movement. But her melee attack was a liability and her Psychokinesis wasn't MUCH better. The fact she and Carol kept getting through around didn't help. But all things considered they made a great pair, so I wouldn't be surprised to see them perform better together in other circumstances.

___________________________________________________________​

THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: In one-on-one matchups, she felt perfect - I was originally going to do a full 10 Heavy Hitter tests, but she felt exactly right in the 340-350 range. Lots of options (5 from range, 7 in melee, possible auto-wounds) to fight. In larger armies, she got lost in the shuffle a bit, which makes me feel like 340 might be the way to go... but I do think there was some bad luck in those games and she has the potential to stay where she is. Definitely draftable.

GENERAL THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT: I really like her! I was surprised, because I wasn't super excited to play with her, but the "must" on her movement is absolutely killer. You really need to play around it if you're on the same team, which is fun - "I need to place Superman effectively, but I know that Maxima will be chasing after him, so I have to consider where SHE'LL go as well."

That being said, I think having an opponent's figure makes her more useful. But that depends on enemy army composition! So yeah, Seeking a Mate is a lot of fun.

And Psychokinesis is still usable at 13. If we find she's coming in above 350 I'll start moving it up, but I think it's a good number if you need an auto-wounder or to move someone around (having her set 'em up for Ms. Marvel to knock 'em down should be a lot of fun).

So yeah, she's a lot of fun!

 

[Viegon]

Re: The Book of Maxima (Initial Playtest Phase)

Looking good! 340 seems like a good spot to try farther testing at.