The Book of Man-Bat Assassins

[IAmBatman]

The Book of Man-Bat Assassins​

C3G DC WAVE 12
LEGENDS OF THE DARK KNIGHT​

Comic PDF​

Mini PDF​

The figure used for this unit is a Heroclix figure from the Arkham Asylum set.
Its model number and name are #017 / Man-Bat Assassin.​

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Character Bio - "In Batman #655 (September 2006), Talia al Ghul (as part of a plot for her father, Ra's al Ghul) ties up and gags Francine (Langstrom, Kirk's wife), and then threatens to poison her if Kirk (the original Man-Bat) does not give her the Man-Bat formula. After Langstrom gives her the formula, she releases Francine as promised. Talia utilizes the mutagen to turn members of the League of Assassins into Man-Bats" (Wikipedia, 2011). Batman tangles with the deadly foes while attempting to stop Talia.
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-Rulings and Clarifications-

• Q: When Claw Grab inflicts a wound on a figure, does the wound take place on the grabbed figure's original location, or does it occur in the space where it's placed? This is for determining where the figure loses its glyph, or for abilities such as Atom's Molecular Irritant.
  A: The wound takes place at the location where it was at before placing the figure. The text indicates the wound takes place after rolling the attack die, then it tells you to place the figure.

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-Combinations and Synergies-

Incoming Synergy:

• As Metahumans, Man-Bat Assassins have these Metahuman Synergies.
• As Assassins, Man-Bat Assassins have these Assassin Synergies.
• As a Ferocious squad, Man-Bat Assassins can take a turn with Beast Man's Beast Mastery special power.

Outgoing Synergy:

• N/A

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-Immunities, Benefits, and Weaknesses-

Immunities

• As figures with the Flying special power, Man-Bat Assassins cannot be affected by aspects of certain special powers. Current special powers that Interact Differently with the Flying special power.
• As figures with the Super Strength special power, Man-Bat Assassins cannot be affected by aspects of certain special powers. Current special powers that Interact Differently with the Super Strength special power.

Benefits

• As figures with the Super Strength special power, Man-Bat Assassins interact differently with certain special powers. Current special powers that Interact Differently with the Super Strength special power.

Weaknesses

• As figures with the Flying special power, Man-Bat Assassins interact differently with certain special powers. Current special powers that Interact Differently with the Flying special power.
• Figures with the Flying special power can bypass the Man-Bat Assassins' Evasive Flying special power. Current figures with the Flying special power.

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-Strategy, Tactics and Tips-

• N/A

-Heroscapers Community Contributions-

• Initial playtest: IAmBatman
• Second playtest: Scapemage
• Third playtest: Zettian Juggernaut
• Art by A3n

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: The Book of Man-Bat Assassins - Design Phase

NAME = MAN-BAT ASSASSINS


SPECIES = METAHUMAN
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE SQUAD (3)
CLASS = ASSASSINS
PERSONALITY = FEROCIOUS

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 1

MOVE = 5
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 4
DEFENSE = 4

POINTS = 150

CLAW GRAB
While a Man-Bat Assassin is flying, you may choose one opponent’s small or medium figure that he passed over this turn. At the end of that Man-Bat Assassin's move, roll one combat die. If you roll a skull, the chosen figure receives one wound, and you may place the chosen figure on an empty space adjacent to that Man-Bat Assassin. When the chosen figure is moved by Claw Grab, it will not take any leaving engagement attacks. You may not Claw Grab the same figure more than once in a turn.

EVASIVE FLYING
When a Man-Bat Assassin starts to fly, he will not take any leaving engagement attacks. When a Man-Bat Assassin rolls defense dice against an attack from a non-adjacent figure without the Flying or Stealth Flying special power, 1 shield will block all damage, and you may immediately move the defending Man-Bat Assassin one space for each shield rolled.

SUPER STRENGTH

FLYING

 

[tcglkn]

Re: The Book of Man-Bat Assassins - Design Phase

I love the Claw Grab power. I think in Evasive Flying, the Stealth Flying part should come first.

 

[Good Pig]

Re: The Book of Man-Bat Assassins - Design Phase

These guys will be nasty. Great job. Curious to see how Man-Bat unique hero will differ from them.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: The Book of Man-Bat Assassins - Design Phase

These guys will be nasty. Great job. Curious to see how Man-Bat unique hero will differ from them.

Me too. It was kind of tough doing these guys first. I could see him still having Claw Grab (or something a lot like it) and better stats and something different than Evasive Flying (which is there to more represent their ninja sides).
Tickle, good call on word error - I'll make a note in the SP for a future update.

 

[Hahma]

Re: The Book of Man-Bat Assassins - Design Phase

Very cool stuff there Bats. I don't know anything about these guys, but the powers look great.

Would Man-Bat be able to Grab And Drop to drop for falling damage and into a bad spot positionally?

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: The Book of Man-Bat Assassins - Design Phase

Since it's a placement power, no falling damage, but yeah, can definitely be put at height disadvantage (the same way you can with Vulture).

 

[SirGalahad]

Re: The Book of Man-Bat Assassins - Design Phase

TALON GRAB
While this Wyvern is flying, you may choose one opponent's small or medium figure that it passed over this turn. Place the chosen figure on an empty same-level space adjacent to this Wyvern at the end of its move. If the chosen figure is engaged when it is moved by Talon Grab, it will not take any leaving engagement attacks. Figures under overhangs can never be moved by Talon Grab.

CLAW GRAB
While a Man-Bat Assassin is flying, you may choose one opponent’s small or medium figure that it passed over this turn and roll one combat die. If you roll a skull, the chosen figure receives one wound and, if it is not destroyed, you may place the chosen figure on an empty space adjacent to that Man-Bat Assassin at the end of its move. If you roll a shield or a blank, nothing happens. When the chosen figure is moved by Claw Grab, it will not take any leaving engagement attacks. You may not Claw Grab the same figure twice in a turn.

No reference to overhangs?

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: The Book of Man-Bat Assassins - Design Phase

Nope. I always thought that part was a little silly. Also, if these guys are agile enough to dodge bullets midair, I think they can dart under overhangs, grab someone, and pop back out.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: The Book of Man-Bat Assassins - Design Phase

 

[SirGalahad]

Re: The Book of Man-Bat Assassins - Design Phase

Which mini?

 

[Hahma]

Re: The Book of Man-Bat Assassins - Design Phase

Since it's a placement power, no falling damage, but yeah, can definitely be put at height disadvantage (the same way you can with Vulture).

Well I was thinking more of him picking someone up and "placing them" somewhere along his movement path and then say, "roll a single combat die for damage" type of thing.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: The Book of Man-Bat Assassins - Design Phase

Which mini?

The figure used for this unit is a Heroclix figure from the Arkham Asylum set.
Its model number and name are #017 / Man-Bat Assassin.​

Since it's a placement power, no falling damage, but yeah, can definitely be put at height disadvantage (the same way you can with Vulture).

Well I was thinking more of him picking someone up and "placing them" somewhere along his movement path and then say, "roll a single combat die for damage" type of thing.

We can make it so they can drop you anywhere along their path, but with it being a squad that can do that, I think it might end up a tad powerful to give it that kind of flexibility. Might be a better idea to save that for Man-Bat. (I'm thinking lava mostly on this one).

 

[A3n]

Re: The Book of Man-Bat Assassins - Design Phase

Looks good Bats. I don't believe, for CLAW GRAB, "If you roll a shield or a blank, nothing happens." is necessary in this instance.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: The Book of Man-Bat Assassins - Design Phase

Good note. I'm fine deleting that line if everyone else is.

 

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Re: The Book of Man-Bat Assassins - Design Phase

I think tickle was suggesting Grab and Drop for Man-Bat to make him different. Another idea would be to give him a version of Spidey Senses called Echo Location. That would make them (MB Assassin squad and Man-Bat) similar but pretty different.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: The Book of Man-Bat Assassins - Design Phase

Yeah, I definitely think there are a lot of different directions you could go with Man-Bat still.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: The Book of Man-Bat Assassins - Design Phase

ERB sent.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: The Book of Man-Bat Assassins - Design Phase

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT (MAN-BAT ASSASSINS)

- THEME TEST/ Check to see if there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that does not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character would and could do. Also consider destructible objects, and whether or not this characters powers should affect them.
PASS

- MIRROR TEST/ Check to see if the unit were played against itself, if there would be any loops that would upset the balance of the Game.
PASS

- BONDING TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing Bonding abilities to make sure there are no continual Bonding possibilities that do not stop appropriately or do not stop at all. This is to prevent loops in Bonding.
PASS

- SYNERGIES TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing synergies to make sure there are no factors that could break the game by making any unit to powerful or too weak.
PASS though bonding with the Hand Ninja is really powerful.

- POWER CHECK/ Consider the test unit and all existing units and all glyphs to compare to and check for any powers that could be over amplified and break the game. Each power must define when it takes place, who or what it affects, and What are the stipulations on the power if there are any.
PASS

- FUN TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play.
PASS

- FUN COMPETITIVE TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play against.
PASS

- DRAFTING TEST/ Consider whether or not this design is worth drafting.
PASS

- USAGE TEST/ Consider whether or not all of the powers on this card were used or at least usable.
PASS

- STRATEGY TEST/ Consider whether or not the design offers any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game.
PASS

Heavy Hitter or Mid-Level Hero Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Yes
- What should be the unit's point value? 130-140
- Give a brief overview. Man-Bats did about as well as I’d expect squads in their cost range to do.

Spoiler Alert!

TEST 1
Map: Custom
Units: Man-Bat Assassins vs. Pyro (120)
Man-Bats benefitted from an initiative switch leading into Round 2. They hit Pyro for 2 Claw Grab wounds. Pyro never got to roll for Engulf.
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Man-Bats with 2 figures win Turn 1 Round 2.

TEST 2
Map: Custom
Units: Man-Bat Assassins vs. Pyro (120)
Pyro scored 1 Engulf kill, and 2 adjacent kills with his special attack. He also rolled defense very well. Man-Bats scored their one wound with Claw Grab.
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Pyro with 1 wound wins Turn 3 Round 1.

TEST 3
Map: Custom
Units: Man-Bat Assassins vs. Batgirl (130)
Man-Bats got initiative for Round 2. All of their Claw Grab attempts failed here They took one death from Defensive Premonition.
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Man-Bats with 2 figures wins Turn 1 Round 2.

TEST 4
Map: Custom
Units: Man-Bat Assassins vs. Batgirl (130)
Batgirl got the initiative switch this time. Claw Grab gave her one wound and she scored one kill with Defensive Premonition. She took out the other two Man-Bat Assassins with normal attacks.
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Batgirl with 3 wounds wins Turn 1 Round 2.

TEST 5
Map: Custom
Units: Man-Bat Assassins vs. Boomerang (130)
Man-Bats score 1 Claw Grab wound and Boomerang collapsed defensively in melee.
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Man-Bats with all alive win Turn 3 Round 1.

TEST 6
Map: Custom
Units: Man-Bat Assassins vs. Boomerang (130)
Boomerang took all of his wounds from normal attacks. Boomerang scored one kill with Returning Boomerang.
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Man-Bats with 2 figures left win Turn 3 Round 1.

TEST 7
Map: Custom
Units: Man-Bat Assassins vs. Harley Quinn (130)
One Man-Bat fell to Harley’s bomb. Harley took 2 Claw Grab wounds.
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Man-Bats with 1 figure win Turn 3 Round 2.

TEST 8
Map: Custom
Units: Man-Bat Assassins vs. Harley Quinn (130)
Harley took all four wounds from Claw Grab. Harley rolled poorly on her attacks, including one skull for her bomb.
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Man-Bats with 2 figures win Turn 3 Round 1.

TEST 9
Map: Custom
Units: Man-Bat Assassins vs. Mirror Master (130)
Mirror Master took 1 Claw Grab wound. Mirror Master was one of two on Mirror Mirage.
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Man-Bats with 2 figures win Turn 3 Round 1.

TEST 10
Map: Custom
Units: Man-Bat Assassins vs. Mirror Master (130)
Man-Bats got an initiative switch here and put 3 Claw Grab wounds on Mirror Master to help offset him going 2/3 on Mirror Mirage.
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Man-Bats with 2 figures win Turn 1 Round 2.

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Squad Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Yes
- What should be the unit's point value? 130
- Give a brief overview. The Man-Bat Assassins used their mobility to get height and their anti-ranged defenses to avoid ranged attacks.
Map: Custom
Units: Man-Bat Assassins vs. Hired Guns (130)

Spoiler Alert!

This one felt pretty close. Man-Bat Assassins have a good power set to counter the Hired Guns. They scored 2 wounds with Claw Grab. The Hired Guns failed to get initiative in Round 2.
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Hired Guns with 1 figure win Turn 1 Round 2.

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Squad Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Yes
- What should be the unit's point value? 130
- Give a brief overview. Man-Bats won a fairly close on here, but definitely felt like they had the edge.
Map: Custom
Units: Man-Bat Assassins vs. Gorilla City Warriors (125)

Spoiler Alert!

Man-Bats got 1 Claw Grab wound.
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Man-Bats with 1 figure win Turn 3 Round 1.

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Army Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Yes
- What should be the unit's point value? 150?
- Give a brief overview. A common squad bonding with a unique squad can dominate mid-level heroes.
Map: Custom
Units: Hand Ninja x2 (170), Man-Bat Assassins (130), Ra’s al Ghul (200) (500) vs. Batman (200), Oracle (110), Alfred (60), Batgirl (130) (500)

Spoiler Alert!

Man-Bats put 1 wound on Batman, 3 wounds on Batgirl (1 with Claw Grab) and all 3 wounds on Alfred.
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Ra’s with Full life and his glyph wins Turn 2 Round 4.

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Army Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Yes
- What should be the unit's point value? 150?
- Give a brief overview. Too many squads for the Vigilante/Archer/Lawmen team.
Map: Custom
Units: Hand Ninja x5 (425), Man-Bat Assassins (130), Boomerang (130), Ra’s al Ghul (200), Talia (110) (995) vs. Green Arrow (130), Green Arrow (150), Black Canary (190), Oracle (110), Beat Cops x2 (130), Commissioner Gordon (90), Robin (120), Speedy (80) (1000)

Spoiler Alert!

This was never really in doubt. The Man-Bats went out by round 3, but put 4 wounds on Black Canary first to tear the Vigilante army apart.
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Full life Ra’s al Ghul, and 3 full squads of Hand Ninja win Turn 3 Round 5.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: The Book of Man-Bat Assassins - Design Phase

Playtest wrapped up. I'm hoping 150 gives them enough cushion to account for how nasty they are when bonding with the Hand. If public tests return strong showings, we can go up further. 24 hours on the clock!

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: The Book of Man-Bat Assassins - Design Phase

The bonus movement on the shields is only meant to trigger after defending a ranged attack. I'll look into that and the other wording issues you bring up here.
And, yeah, I don't think we'll ever have a small or medium DO that would thematically be too heavy for them to pick up. And they have Super Strength, so they could throw such objects anyway.
Thanks for more great feedback!

Cheers,
Bats

Man-Bat Assassins

Man-Bat has assassins? Let's check 'em out!

Claw Grab
I do have a timing question as to when you get to roll the die, as it says Man-Bat Assassins roll while flying. I've seen abilities like these take place at the end of the move, such as Green Goblin. Then again, there are figures such as Elektra that use their abilities while moving, but those abilities tend to require you to make your attack in a space where you can normally end your movement. You can't really do that here, because you can't really end your move if you attack while you're directly above a figure.

You did limit the Grab so that the same figure won't simply be dragged around by each member of the entire squad. That would be pretty nasty, even with a Unique Squad.

One thing to consider: What about You may not Claw Grab the same figure more than once in a turn. I'm thinking a rules lawyer might think you can do this three times on a technicality. If that did happen, a player would be morally obligated to smash a keg of Burt's Beer over said rules lawyer's noggin.

One interesting item: I haven't been considering destructible objects in my ERB deliberations so far when I see the word figure, so I really need to do that. Here, opponents can't draft destructible objects... yet. If the Batmobile is released as a DO, that would make it possible to Claw Grab it. Doubtful with the Batmobile, since as a likely 2-hex "figure," it would be classified as Large. I don't see any theme break if you ever decide to design draft-able destructible objects (try saying that 3 times really quickly).

Sorry about the rambling... my brain is in ERB mode!

Evasive Flying
First, this will work well with their Claw Grab. Oooo, nice! Whoa, and I just finished reading the ability! This is interesting!

Would the 1 space per shield move apply if defending against an adjacent attack or from an attack from a flying figure? I'm thinking it's connected with the conditions established in the previous sentence, so maybe no.

If a Man-Bat Assassin rolls enough shields to pass over an opponent's figure during the Evasive Flying move, could he Claw Grab it? That would actually be pretty cool, but I don't know if it falls into the turn interruption category.

Final Thoughts
This is one of those designs that looks like it will be fantastic to play. It reminds me of my first reaction in reading C3G's Spider-Man after it was released. Ferocious is definitely an understatement with these guys!

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: The Book of Man-Bat Assassins - Design Phase

OK, here's what I'm thinking for rewrites for clarity - feedback appreciated.

CLAW GRAB
While a Man-Bat Assassin is flying, you may choose one opponent’s small or medium figure that it passed over this turn. At the end of that Man-Bat Assassin's move, roll one combat die. If you roll a skull, the chosen figure receives one wound and, if it is not destroyed, you may place the chosen figure on an empty space adjacent to that Man-Bat Assassin. When the chosen figure is moved by Claw Grab, it will not take any leaving engagement attacks. You may not attempt to Claw Grab the same figure more than once in a turn.

EVASIVE FLYING
When a Man-Bat Assassin starts to fly, he will not take any leaving engagement attacks. When a Man-Bat Assassin rolls defense dice against a normal attack from a non-adjacent figure without the Flying or Stealth Flying special power, 1 shield will block all damage and, for each shield rolled, you may immediately move the defending Man-Bat Assassin one space.

I think the above changes help with all the clarity issues brought up by davidlhsl.

 

[Griffin]

Re: The Book of Man-Bat Assassins - Design Phase

EVASIVE FLYING
When a Man-Bat Assassin starts to fly, he will not take any leaving engagement attacks. When a Man-Bat Assassin rolls defense dice against a normal attack from a non-adjacent figure without the Flying or Stealth Flying special power, 1 shield will block all damage and, for each shield rolled, you may immediately move the defending Man-Bat Assassin one space.

I worry that this just isn't going to occur enough to make me happy. Could we cut all of the restrictions I marked out or some of them?

 

[Griffin]

Re: The Book of Man-Bat Assassins - Design Phase

CLAW GRAB
While a Man-Bat Assassin is flying, you may choose one opponent’s small or medium figure that it passed over this turn. At the end of that Man-Bat Assassin's move, roll one combat die. If you roll a skull, the chosen figure receives one wound and, if it is not destroyed, you may place the chosen figure on an empty space adjacent to that Man-Bat Assassin. When the chosen figure is moved by Claw Grab, it will not take any leaving engagement attacks. You may not attempt to Claw Grab the same figure more than once in a turn.

Why is that last line necessary if "claw grabbing" is contingent on rolling the single attack die anyways?

 

[Good Pig]

Re: The Book of Man-Bat Assassins - Design Phase

Evasive Flying is based off of Goblin Glider I'm assuming. I get plenty of use out of that power.