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The Book of Krypto
- Thread starter Griffin
- Start date
Yep, as you know I like that army. Krypto is a nice addition, although I don't think he really makes it that much stronger than it already is.The way Krypto's card is currently worded a team of Lex Luthor (Business Suit), Bodyguards, Hired guns, Superman I or II, and Krypto could get a lot of turns off of a single OM. By revealing 1 OM on Luthor you can move up to 3 Bodyguards instead of moving Luthor, Activate Red Kryptonite Control before attacking, Take a Turn with Superman (assuming you roll 6 or Higher), take a turn with Krypto since no OM needs to be revealed, and Attack with the Hired Guns instead of attacking with Lex. This team can accomplish a lot for just 1 OM. I'm not saying it's OP since I haven't tested it yet, but it looks pretty darn good
Yeah, that's an interesting combo. Between the Superman/Krypto combo and the Hired Guns, you have plenty of offense, and Superman/Krypto and the Body Guards should help keep Lex Luthor clean along with his Criminal Deception.
That said, a failed D20 roll for Lex can really hurt that army, and there are lots of ways to hurt Kryptonians.
The thing that really concerns me about that combo is something that's been doable since the Hired Guns have been released, though, and that's having Superman move and attack on the same OM the Hired Guns attack (twice) on. Yuck. Krypto moving too and having his Daring Decoy clog things up certainly helps, but it doesn't kill things. Starting to reallllly wish Red Kryptonite Control was instead of attacking, not before attacking ... but that'd make it tough to pull off the whole "force Superman to take a bunch of leaving engagement attacks by Red K-ing him into a pile of criminals, then having Lex shoot one of his nearby allies to trigger Heroic Duty" thing that was so core to Lex's design.
Definitely check that combo out, though, and put up a battle report. I'd love to read it.
That said, a failed D20 roll for Lex can really hurt that army, and there are lots of ways to hurt Kryptonians.
The thing that really concerns me about that combo is something that's been doable since the Hired Guns have been released, though, and that's having Superman move and attack on the same OM the Hired Guns attack (twice) on. Yuck. Krypto moving too and having his Daring Decoy clog things up certainly helps, but it doesn't kill things. Starting to reallllly wish Red Kryptonite Control was instead of attacking, not before attacking ... but that'd make it tough to pull off the whole "force Superman to take a bunch of leaving engagement attacks by Red K-ing him into a pile of criminals, then having Lex shoot one of his nearby allies to trigger Heroic Duty" thing that was so core to Lex's design.
Definitely check that combo out, though, and put up a battle report. I'd love to read it.
Yeah the extra attack of 4 probably wouldn't change much and when playing a lower point game you would still be better off picking up a support but I thought I would point that out. Thanks again for posting that army Dok, I've been having a lot of fun with it
Ah, I think you're reading the card wrong .... Krypto doesn't get an attack in all of that, just a free movement:
Still handy for planting Krypto in an engagement where Daring Decoy can keep the Hired Guns and Superman clean for a bit or force a leaving engagement attack.
DocGlock
New member
Yep I did read that wrong. I do tend to get a little excited as I speed read all the new cards. Anyway I still think the army would be worth checking out I'm just not sure if Krypto would be worth taking over a weather wizard, Doctor Light, etc.
The only other idea I really want to try out is the Bizzaro, Mister Fantastic, Wasp Combo. Kinda disappointed in myself for not seeing that one before
The only other idea I really want to try out is the Bizzaro, Mister Fantastic, Wasp Combo. Kinda disappointed in myself for not seeing that one before
Probably not - but at 80 points he's cheaper than Weather Wizard or Doctor Light, so that's something to consider.
Yeah, Bizarro's a nasty one. Another way to approach that might be to go with Bizarro, Wasp, Blob, Professor X, and someone who can throw or otherwise move figures like Jean Grey, Storm, or Magneto. Better OM management and a way to force figures into your trap.
Yeah, Bizarro's a nasty one. Another way to approach that might be to go with Bizarro, Wasp, Blob, Professor X, and someone who can throw or otherwise move figures like Jean Grey, Storm, or Magneto. Better OM management and a way to force figures into your trap.
Stop spoiling ideas for my next online league army, Bats.
FWIW, while the bodyguard/Superman/Business Suit Luthor/Hired Guns army has been on my radar for a while, I don't think it's broken. I suspect it's quite strong and on par with the big supers teams, but if you have ranged specials or fast flyers, you can take out the hired guns easily enough, and then those nasty attack turns go away. Krypto makes this a little harder, but he can't be everywhere at once.
FWIW, while the bodyguard/Superman/Business Suit Luthor/Hired Guns army has been on my radar for a while, I don't think it's broken. I suspect it's quite strong and on par with the big supers teams, but if you have ranged specials or fast flyers, you can take out the hired guns easily enough, and then those nasty attack turns go away. Krypto makes this a little harder, but he can't be everywhere at once.
weebaer
Active member
Thanks for reminding me that Bizarro can be scary even without Jocasta, though!
The possibilities of Bizarro are endless!
He is hands down better than Superman (I) imo.
Re: The Book of Krypto - Designing
Can you take a turn with a Unique Kryptonian Hero without controlling it?
Can you take a turn with a Unique Kryptonian Hero without controlling it?
laughing matter
Never Forgets
Lex two I believe.
Re: The Book of Krypto - Designing
With Mind Control powers, "control of the figure returns to the original player after the turn". Confusion? I guess we tried to avoid it by making it more confusing. lol
Krypt Guard
Bats is correct. When you mind control a Kryptonian, you control it for that turn. The question is this. At the end of that Kryptonian's turn, control returns to your opponent. Does Kryptonian's Best Friend take effect before this turn ends, after the turn ends, or does it not care?
If the first or third then KBF activates. If the second one can argue KBF does not activate since you no longer control the Kryptonian.
Another question to consider with a mind controlled Kryptonian. The timing of returning control and KBF is important because that can determine if say the Kryptonian gets to make leaving engagement attacks on Krypto.
~Dysole, noting similar cases arise with any other power that activates after a turn is taken but that does not require an OM reveal
Bats is correct. When you mind control a Kryptonian, you control it for that turn. The question is this. At the end of that Kryptonian's turn, control returns to your opponent. Does Kryptonian's Best Friend take effect before this turn ends, after the turn ends, or does it not care?
If the first or third then KBF activates. If the second one can argue KBF does not activate since you no longer control the Kryptonian.
Another question to consider with a mind controlled Kryptonian. The timing of returning control and KBF is important because that can determine if say the Kryptonian gets to make leaving engagement attacks on Krypto.
~Dysole, noting similar cases arise with any other power that activates after a turn is taken but that does not require an OM reveal
Adding "control" only muddies the issue, IMO.
With the current text it's clear that the "Business Suit" Lex's Red Kryptonite + Kryptonian Hero + Krypto is an allowable chain.
If chains like that aren't desired (and I thought they were with this design) then the clearest way to block them is by requiring an OM reveal on the Kryptonian Hero.
Otherwise, I think it's clear the chain is allowable and I'm not sure it's an issue.
With the current text it's clear that the "Business Suit" Lex's Red Kryptonite + Kryptonian Hero + Krypto is an allowable chain.
If chains like that aren't desired (and I thought they were with this design) then the clearest way to block them is by requiring an OM reveal on the Kryptonian Hero.
Otherwise, I think it's clear the chain is allowable and I'm not sure it's an issue.
It's more confusing for me without the "you control", 'cause almost always if a power is referring to a unit you control taking a turn it uses "you control", so this one not having makes it confusing. Also, the "you control" wouldn't stop the chain.
Viegon
Power abusing superplaytester
I agree with ZJ. By deviating from a precedent that's been established since before C3G (and one C3G has used heavily), it leads players to think it's supposed to work differently than other similar powers, potentially leading them to think it is supposed to trigger off of opponent's turns. With Lex (I), if that's an interaction we want, I think we can safely rule on that; it doesn't seem confusing to me to say that because you controlled the Kryptonian for that turn, the power triggers (though if we don't want it, I'd strongly support adding in the "after revealing an OM" wording).
My
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My
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Ah, so you guys were reading it as being able to activate after another player's turn?
Yeah, I don't see that at all from the text .... The "you" is very clearly implied in that sentence. But if you want it just for consistency (even if it's unnecessary text), nothing wrong with that, I guess.
Yeah, I don't see that at all from the text .... The "you" is very clearly implied in that sentence. But if you want it just for consistency (even if it's unnecessary text), nothing wrong with that, I guess.
Viegon
Power abusing superplaytester
Well, I wasn't, but that's because I didn't even notice the "you control" wasn't in the text until ZJ pointed it out, I had just been reading it in. But the point is that it could easily be misread; we already have plenty of powers that allow your figures to move on an opponent's turn, so it wouldn't be a jump to assume Krypto's allowed for that too.
Yeah, but implied meanings like that can easily be missed, especially by anyone not familiar with C3G. Better to clearly state it and avoid confusion, in my opinion.
Well, it's just one Hero's and one Sidekick's opinion so far.
@johnny139, @Karat, @SirGalahad, @TrollBrute, what do you guys think on this issue?
I'm slightly confused about what this whole conversation is about at the moment. Are we discussing whether or not your opponent would get to move Krypto after taking a turn with Krypto? If so, my answer is no. Or are we discussing whether or not Krypto should be allowed to be moved, by his controlling player, after your opponent takes a turn with a Kryptonian? If the second, I don't have an inherent problem with it. If we don't want the second and would like to eliminate the first from the realm of possibilities, I think this wording would do it nicely.
Although I agree that it is not necessary, I also agree that it won't hurt to include it.
Probably would be a good idea to have a FAQ to address Dysole's question.
Probably would be a good idea to have a FAQ to address Dysole's question.
TrollBrute
Who ISN'T One of My Brothers??
While it's written differently from powers that allow you to move on an opponent's turn, I think it could still be mistaken. I agree that more clarity would be better, though "you control" does muddy the issue with Lex (II).
Re: Krypt Guard
My gut reaction on this question is that the two effects trigger simultaneously and since both effects are technically parts of powers that would both be on cards controlled by the same player, that player (by C3G ruling) should get to decide the order they trigger in. Which means that the player could always choose to allow the chain to trigger if they wanted.
That's how I'd rule, at least, unless there's a compelling case to the contrary.
My gut reaction on this question is that the two effects trigger simultaneously and since both effects are technically parts of powers that would both be on cards controlled by the same player, that player (by C3G ruling) should get to decide the order they trigger in. Which means that the player could always choose to allow the chain to trigger if they wanted.
That's how I'd rule, at least, unless there's a compelling case to the contrary.
