The Book of Krypto

[IAmBatman]

Re: The Book of Krypto - Designing

pre-yea at 100.

 

[Griffin]

Re: The Book of Krypto - Designing

A3n, I had made time to play test and when I started on CB, I had questions that you kindly answered, but while I was waiting I wanted to make use of play testing time I made. Then when CB's questions were answered, I just wanted to finish the play test sheet that was most done.

If you would like, I can put this design on hold until CB is done. I was certainly not trying to push "my" design before "yours".

 

[tcglkn]

Re: The Book of Krypto - Designing

Pre-Yea at 100 points.

 

[A3n]

Re: The Book of Krypto - Designing

A3n, I had made time to play test and when I started on CB, I had questions that you kindly answered, but while I was waiting I wanted to make use of play testing time I made. Then when CB's questions were answered, I just wanted to finish the play test sheet that was most done.

If you would like, I can put this design on hold until CB is done. I was certainly not trying to push "my" design before "yours".

It's alright, I forgive you.

 

[Hahma]

Re: The Book of Krypto - Designing

Pre -Yea

 

[A3n]

Re: The Book of Krypto - Designing

Oops almost forgot, pre-yea

 

[SirGalahad]

Re: The Book of Krypto - Designing

pre-yea

 

[Griffin]

Re: The Book of Krypto - Designing

I propose we move to playtesting, and this passes.

 

[Griffin]

Re: The Book of Krypto - Designing

Thanks for the quick turn around.

I was already thinking 90 points might be better for him, and I think you sold me. Also, you played it right with Krypton NOT taking LEAs, but, I think you may have persuaded me to let him disengage freely.
He definitely isn't a beat stick, that is true. Though he can potentially draw some attacks off of a figure you want to protect, and that is nice. I can tell you though, he works VERY well with the Sanctum Superboy IMO.

Thanks again.

Ta da!

Loved the Super dog! A little tricky to play, though!

[FONT=&quot]C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT Krypto

- THEME TEST/ Check to see if there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that does not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character would and could do. Also consider destructible objects, and whether or not this characters powers should affect them.
Pass Superdog!!!

- MIRROR TEST/ Check to see if the unit were played against itself, if there would be any loops that would upset the balance of the Game.
Pass

- BONDING TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing Bonding abilities to make sure there are no continual Bonding possibilities that do not stop appropriately or do not stop at all. This is to prevent loops in Bonding.
Pass

- SYNERGIES TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing synergies to make sure there are no factors that could break the game by making any unit to powerful or too weak.
Pass

- POWER CHECK/ Consider the test unit and all existing units and all glyphs to compare to and check for any powers that could be over amplified and break the game. Each power must define when it takes place, who or what it affects, and What are the stipulations on the power if there are any.
Pass

- FUN TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play.
Pass

- FUN COMPETITIVE TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play against.
Pass

- DRAFTING TEST/ Consider whether or not this design is worth drafting.
Pass

- USAGE TEST/ Consider whether or not all of the powers on this card were used or at least usable.
Pass

- STRATEGY TEST/ Consider whether or not the design offers any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game.
Pass[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]_____________________________________________________________[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]

Army Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Yes
- What should be the unit's point value? 90-100
- Give a brief overview. The game started pretty even, but once Punisher and his multiple attacks went down, the Supers couldn’t keep up with all the dice the Hawks were throwing. Krypto’s SA didn’t seem as powerful as it could be, but it also could be that the Hawkmen are pretty beefy.
Map: Shards, by Dignan
Units: Krypto, Superman, Supergirl, Punisher (1000) Vs. Hawkgirl, Hawkman, Hawkmen of Thanagar x3, Psylocke
[/FONT]

Spoiler Alert!

[FONT=&quot]R1: (The Hawkmen of Thanagar will be called Lawmen, so not to be confused with Hawkman) Lawmen and Hawkgirl move up. Superman and Krypto fly to the height. Hawkgirl hits Superman for 1 wound. Punisher misses a lawman. Hawkgirl puts 3 wounds on Punisher. Supergirl puts 2 wounds on Hawkgirl. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]R2: Krypto runs to the starting zone, and barks, but only kills 1 lawman. Hawkgirl hits Superman for 1 wound. Punisher kills 2 Lawmen with his rifle. Lawmen miss Krypto. Superman misses Hawkgirl. Psylocke misses Krypto. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]R3: Krypto’s bark puts 1 wound on Hawkman. Hawkman kills Punisher. Punisher loses his turn. Psylocke puts 1 wound on Krypto. Supergirl hits Hawkman for 2 wounds. Hawkgirl misses Supergirl. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]R4: Superman kills Hawkman, Hawkman loses his turn. Krypto misses everyone with his Bark. Hawkgirl hits Superman for 1 wound. Supergirl misses Hawkgirl. Psylocke leaves engagement with Krypto, and Psychic Knifes Supergirl for 1 wound. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]R5: Superman misses Hawkgirl. Hawkgirl flies away and kills Krypto. Krypto loses turn. Psylocke misses Superman with Psychic Knife. Supergirl misses Psylocke with her Heat Vision. Psylocke’s knife hits Superman for a wound. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]R6: Hawkgirl hits Supergirl for 5 wounds! Psylocke counters Superman’s attack for 1 wound. Psylocke’s knife hits Superman for a wound! Supergirl’s Heat Vision fails against Psylocke. Psylocke’s knife misses Superman, and Superman hits her for 1 wound. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]R7: Superman hits Psylocke for a wound. Hawkgirl takes out Superman. Supergirl’s heat vision fails again, and Psylocke rolls a 20 for the kill on Supergirl![/FONT][FONT=&quot]
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Thanagarians win! Hawkgirl with 2 wounds, Psylocke with 2 wounds, and 3 Lawmen left. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]_____________________________________________________________[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]

Army Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Yes
- What should be the unit's point value? 90-100
- Give a brief overview. The White Martians just clumped together and kept using their psychic assault, and Supergirl couldn’t kill them fast enough, and GA was fairly useless against them, with their intangibility. Krypto could only use his SA while adjacent, which narrowed down his target options.
Map: Shards, by Dignan
Units: Krypto, Supergirl, Green Arrow (Ollie) (570) Vs. White Martians x3 Echo (580)

Spoiler Alert!

R1: Green Arrow moves towards height. A Martian goes to height also. Supergirl and Krypto move to the height. Martians try to psychic assault Supergirl, but they fail. GA hits Echo for 2 wounds. Martians assault Supergirl for 2 wounds.

[/FONT]

Spoiler Alert!

[FONT=&quot]R2: Krypto hits a martian for 1 wound. Martians assault Supergirl for 1 wound. Supergirl hits a martian for 3 wounds. Martians’ assault fails. Supergirl kills a martian. Martians assault Supergirl for 1 wound. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]R3: Martians hit Supergirl for a wound with their assault. Supergirl hits a martian for a wound. Martians put the last two wounds on Supergirl with their assault! Supergirl loses her turn. Echo moves up, mimics the range of the martians, and shoots GA for a wound. GA shoots Echo for 1 wound. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]R4: Martians attack Krypto for 2 wounds and GA for 1. Krypto misses a martian on height. Martians pulverize both GA and Krypto. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Martians win; Two remaining Martians with 1 wound each, and Echo with 3 wounds[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Krypto’s team lost both times, so take that how you will. I feel as though he’s way too weak, but I then realize that it’s because the other Super characters are 300+, while Krypto is at 100. He has to be played like a cheap filler sidekick, and not a beatstick, which is probably a problem I had. I’m hesitant to say his cost should go down, since his stats are really good. I think I just didn’t play him that well.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]One note, I think it’d be awesome if he didn’t take leaving engagement attacks while using Kryptonian’s best friend, then he’d get a lot more use out of that power. Not necessary though, just a thought.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Awesome, simple design![/FONT]
[/spoiler]

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: The Book of Krypto - Designing

I'm pro disengage, but I wonder if that change won't help cement 100 points rather than dropping him to 90.

 

[Griffin]

Re: The Book of Krypto - Designing

I really don't think so. I personally don't even remember ever wanting to disengage with him, so it would be just an added little thing that doesn't give the design much of anything beyond a rarely used part of the power.

 

[tcglkn]

Re: The Book of Krypto - Designing

Looks good with him being able to disengage. Hopefully the last test will help us narrow it down more between 90 and 100 points.

 

[A3n]

Re: The Book of Krypto - Designing

Reading LP's playtest I don't think the disengage would have added too much to Krypto's survivability. I also didn't get the feeling that he was quite 90. But you guys are better costers then I.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: The Book of Krypto - Designing

Well I'll admit I was putting more weight on Griff's test (and LP's conclusion that Krypto was 90-100) than LP's actual results at this point ... the third test should help with the tipping point, though.

 

[Griffin]

Re: The Book of Krypto - Designing

Thanks.

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT Krypto

- THEME TEST/ Check to see if there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that does not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character would and could do. Also consider destructible objects, and whether or not this characters powers should affect them.
Pass.

- MIRROR TEST/ Check to see if the unit were played against itself, if there would be any loops that would upset the balance of the Game.
Pass.

- BONDING TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing Bonding abilities to make sure there are no continual Bonding possibilities that do not stop appropriately or do not stop at all. This is to prevent loops in Bonding.
Pass.

- SYNERGIES TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing synergies to make sure there are no factors that could break the game by making any unit to powerful or too weak.
Pass.

- POWER CHECK/ Consider the test unit and all existing units and all glyphs to compare to and check for any powers that could be over amplified and break the game. Each power must define when it takes place, who or what it affects, and What are the stipulations on the power if there are any.
Pass.

- FUN TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play.
Pass.

- FUN COMPETITIVE TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play against.
Pass.

- DRAFTING TEST/ Consider whether or not this design is worth drafting.
Pass.

- USAGE TEST/ Consider whether or not all of the powers on this card were used or at least usable.
Pass.

- STRATEGY TEST/ Consider whether or not the design offers any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game.
Pass.

_____________________________________________________________
​

Army Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Yes
- What should be the unit's point value? 100
- Give a brief overview. Thor moves adn wounds Superman twice. Superman moves and wounds thro once and then Krypto moves. Thor attacks superman but fails to wound him. Krypto attacks thor but fails to wound him. Thor attacks superman wounding him once. Suprman fails to wound thor. Thro moves and takes a wound from superman because of leaving engagemnts and then thor uses god of thunder strike killing a doombot and woundign doom three times. Superman moves adn woundis thor once and Krypto moves too. Thor uses mjolnir specail attack failing to wound everbody except krypto. Superman wounds thor 2 times. Tghor attacks superman failing to wound him. Superman kills Thor. Superman moves and wounds Hercules twice and Krypto moves. Superman wounds Hercules once more. Hercules fails to wound Superman.Superman wounds Hercules twice. Hercules attacks superman failin gto wound him.Krypto moves and wounnds Wolverine once with Sonic Bark.Wo,verine moves and fails to wound Krypto and then he heals him. Superman wounds Hercules once. Wolverine kills Krypto. Superman fails to wound Hercules. Hercules wounds Superman once. Superman wounds Hercules once. Wolverine moves. Superman fails to wound Hercules. Wolverine moves adn kills a doombot. Superman fails to wound Superman. Hercules Challenges Superman but fails to wound him. Superman kills Hercules. Wolveerine attacks doom wounding him once. Superman moves and wounds wolverine 2 times. Wolverine kills Doom and removes a wound. Wolverine wounnds Superman twice and removes a wound. Superman wounds wolverine 3 times. Wolverine fails to wound Superman and remvoes a wiund. Superman wounds Wolverine 3 times. Wolveirne fails to wound superman. superman kills Wolverine.
Map: Heroes of the ruins past battlefeild
Units: ./B]

Spoiler Alert!

Krypto, Superman, Doombot x2, Doctor Doom (1060) VS. Thor, Hercules, Wolverine (1060)
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Team one with superman with 6 wounds.

_____________________________________________________________​

Army Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Yes
- What should be the unit's point value? 90
- Give a brief overview. Solomon Grundy moves and wounds Punisher once. Punisher moves and uses assualt rifle failing to wound Grundy. Grundy moves adn kills Punisher. Grundy moves and wounds Huntress 3 times and then he takes 2 wounds because of ruthless counter strike. Huntress moves and kills Grundy. Alfred uses remote feild extraction moving huntress and healing her once. Supergirl moves and wounds robin once and then Krypto moves next to her. Huntress uses alfred feild medic removing her to wounds and then she uses crossbow specail attack wounding her 4 times. Krypto moves adn uses sonic bark wounding Huntress once. Batman once and alfre 2 times. Robin wounds Supergirl once. Supergirl kills Huntress. Batman moves and attacks supergirl wounding her once and then moves using batglide. Supergirl wounds Robin once. Batman moves and fails to wound her and then robin attacks Supergirlfailing to wound her. Supergirl wounds Robin once. Robin kills Supergirl. Grundy comes back next to Krypto and then Krypto kills alfred. Grundy moves and wounds Batman once. Batman kills Grundy. Batman moves and batman and robin fail to wou d Krypto. Krypto kills batman. Robin moves and wounds Krypto once. Krypto moves and fails to wound Robin. Robin moves and fails to wound Krypto. Grundy comes back and Krypto mopves and fails to wound Robin. Robin moves and wounds Krypto once. Krypto kills Robin.
Map: Heroes of the ruins past battlefeild
Units: Super girl, Krypto, Solomon Grundy ( 700) VS. Batman ( terry mcginnis) , Robin, Alfred Pennyworth, Huntress, Punisher (680)/B]

Spoiler Alert!

.
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Team one with Krypto 2 wounds and grundy with 2 wounds.

 

[Griffin]

Re: The Book of Krypto - Designing

After looking at all the tests, I think A3n is right and that 80 points would be a much more suitable cost.

I propose we move to Final Editing at 80 points.

 

[A3n]

Re: The Book of Krypto - Designing

I'm happy with 80 so Yea.

 

[tcglkn]

Re: The Book of Krypto - Designing

Yea.

 

[tcglkn]

Re: The Book of Krypto - Designing

Do you not have any miniature pictures here yet?

 

[SirGalahad]

Re: The Book of Krypto - Designing

yea to editing

SONIC BARK SPECIAL ATTACK
Range Special. Attack 3.
Choose 2 spaces in a straight line from Krypto. All figures on those 2 spaces, and all figures adjacent to those 2 spaces are affected by Krypto's Sonic Bark this special attack. Roll 3 attack dice once for all affected figures. Each figure rolls defense dice separately. Kryptonians are not affected by Sonic Bark this special attack. Symbiotes roll 1 fewer defense die against Sonic Bark this special attack.

DARING DECOY
Figures engaged with Krypto can only attack figures that have the Daring Decoy special power.

KRYPTONIAN'S BEST FRIEND
After taking a turn with any other Unique Kryptonian Hero, you may move Krypto as long as he ends his movement adjacent to the that Unique Kryptonian Hero. Krypto will not take any leaving engagement attacks when using this special power.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: The Book of Krypto - Designing

That last set of tests seems to verify at least 90 rather than pull it down to 80 .... his team won 50% of the army tests with him costed at 100 ... yeah, LP's were blow outs against him, so I'm cool with the drop to 90 (even as the disengage is added to increase his usefulness), but I'm not seeing 80 from the tests at all, honestly.

 

[Hahma]

Re: The Book of Krypto - Designing

I agree with Bats. Griff's tests were close and split with Krypto at 100. LP had victories for both, but not devastatingly and the 2nd test the opponent had 10 more points in their army, which at 570-580 points means more than at 1000 points.

The last testsheet from Warlord of the Wolves had Krypto's team winning both times. So I don't know where a 20 point drop comes from, though I could see him at 90.

 

[Griffin]

Re: The Book of Krypto - Designing

There were a couple of tests though where Krypto didn't do anything at all. That is worth a drop in 10 additional points in my opinion. When he isn't worth an OM and he isn't helping out by being near/in the fight, it is kinda hard to ask people to invest 90 points.

Tickle, Spidey is gonna post pics this weekend.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: The Book of Krypto - Designing

I'll run some army tests today so I have a more informed opinion.

 

[Griffin]

Re: The Book of Krypto - Designing

Thanks. I didn't have a problem getting 90 or 100 points out of him, but when I see others struggling a bit to do so, I remind myself that I consistently get more value out of newer units.