The Book of Klarion

[Ronin]

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Initial Playtesting

Agreed. Seems like you're taking the right steps.

 

[Arkham]

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Initial Playtesting

Initials updated.

I'm quite happy with how they feel, it's just a matter of getting more data to confirm the point values. I feel at 235 and the bump to 85 is feeling pretty accurate. They will be swingy, but with 3 close finishes, 2 wins and 1 loss, I feel we have a good starting point going into Public Testing.

 

[Arkham]

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Initial Playtesting

I propose a vote to move Klarion(235) and Teekl(85) to Initial Playtesting.
@Ronin - yea
@Yodaking - yea
@Tornado - yea
@johnny139
@japes
@Spidey'tilIDie
sirgalahad - Abstain

 

[Ronin]

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Vote for Public Playtesti

yea

 

[Yodaking]

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Vote for Public Playtesti

yea

 

[Tornado]

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Vote for Public Playtesti

Yea

 

[Arkham]

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Vote for Public Playtesti

This passes on time.

 

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Public Playtesting)

Post-Yea BTW, I thought there was a requirement to also get a vote from at least one more than half the active Heroes. Did that change? Am I mistaken?

 

[Lazy Orang]

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Public Playtesting)

Post-Yea BTW, I thought there was a requirement to also get a vote from at least one more than half the active Heroes. Did that change? Am I mistaken?

As far as I'm aware, the requirement is half the active heroes - and even if not, I'm assuming that, since Arkham's a Hero himself, him proposing the vote counts as an auto-yeah from him, which, when combined with SirG's Abstention, gives you a 4/3 ratio.

 

[Arkham]

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Public Playtesting)

That was my logic yeah. My own vote plus abstains made the majority.

 

[japes]

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Public Playtesting)

Your vote called for initial but I'm guessing now that I'm caught up it was for Public Testing...in which case YEA

 

[Ronin]

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Public Playtesting)

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Klarion (& Teekl)

Army Test
Map: Ivy's Greenhouse
Units: Klarion @235, Hawkgirl, Robot (670) vs Captain America, Iron Man Mk IV, Songbird (670)

Spoiler Alert!

Things got off to a big start here for Team Klarion, with Hawkgirl annihilating Songbird on a big attack roll. Hawkgirl put a dent in Cap as well, but couldn't quite take him out. Robot and Klarion had difficulty getting through Cap's defense, forcing Klarion to resort to Chaotic Antics to try to wound him. This did work... eventually. Not fast enough to stop Klarion from being repulsored to death.

Unit Summary:

• Damage Done (Normal Attack): 0 wounds to Cap in 1 attack
• Chaotic Antics:
  • Chose Hawkgirl (1 Life left) and Cap (2 Life left). Rolled a skull and a shield. Transferred a wound from Hawkgirl to Cap.
  • Chose Cap (1 Life left) and Iron Man (4 Life left). Rolled a skull and a blank. Transferred a Wound Marker from Cap to Iron Man and an Order Marker from Iron Man to Cap.
  • Chose Cap (2 Life left) and Robot (2 Life left). Rolled a skull and a shield. Transferred a wound from Robot to Cap.
  • Chose Cap (1 Life left) and Iron Man (3 Life left). Rolled a skull and a shield. Transferred a wound from Iron Man to Cap, destroying Cap.
• Damage Taken/Magical Defense: 1 wound from Songbird in 1 attack, 1 wound from Cap in 1 special attack, 2 wounds from Iron Man in 5 special attacks (destroyed)

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Iron Man unwounded

___________________________________________________________​

Army Test
Map: Ivy's Greenhouse
Units: Klarion @235, Catman, Scandal Savage, Ragdoll (705) vs Cable, Rover, Wild Child, Armor, Skrull Infiltrator (705)

Spoiler Alert!

Klarion again serves in the 'slightly unreliable support' role. He actually has his rolls work out pretty well, but Catman isn't doing that well on attack, and the Outlaws can't get much action going.

Unit Summary:

• Damage Done (Normal Attack): 1 wound to Cable in 1 attack (destroyed), 1 wound to Armor in 2 attacks
• Chaotic Antics:
  • Chose Catman (6 Life left) and Cable (5 Life left). Rolled two shields. Switched Catman and Cable, pulling Cable away from Rover.
  • Chose Catman (2 Life left) and Cable (5 Life left). Rolled two skulls. Teleported Catman to get him away from Rover and teleported Cable to low ground.
  • Chose Catman (2 Life left) and Cable (2 Life left). Rolled two skulls. Teleported Cable back to low ground again, Catman to high.
  • Chose Armor (3 Life left) and Cable (1 Life left). Rolled two skulls. Teleported Cable back to low ground again, threw Armor out of sidekick range.
• Damage Taken/Magical Defense: 2 wounds from Cable in 2 attacks, 2 wounds from Wild Child in 2 attacks (destroyed)

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Armor with 1 wound, Wild Child and Rover unwounded

___________________________________________________________​

Army Test
Map: Ivy's Greenhouse
Units: Klarion & Teekl @320, Star-Lord, Kraven, Sif (1000) vs Fantastic Four (1000)

Spoiler Alert!

A Star-Lord-boosted Kraven manages to take out Reed pretty quickly, but Torch and Thing still do a number on Star-Lord's army. Klarion manages to get a lot of Antics in, to his team's general benefit. Notably, at one point he manages to pull 4 wounds off Torch and onto Thing (denying Thing a chance to go Clobbering Time), and then, after Sif and Teekl wound Johnny back up to 4 again, Klarion's Antics transfer a wound from Ben to Johnny, taking him out before he can let Thing really wreck shop.

Thing eventually takes out Klarion and Teekl, but they're able to do enough damage that Sif can clean up.

Klarion definitely plays a little better with Teekl providing some extra attacks and a screen that can soak up wounds. Teekl feels like a pretty good value add.

Unit Summary (Klarion):

• Damage Done (Normal Attack):
• Chaotic Antics:
  • Chose himself and Kraven, hoping for a double-skull to advance. Rolled a double-shield. Switched the two figures. Kind of a wash.
  • Chose Human Torch and Mr Fantastic. Rolled a skull and a shield. No effect since both figures were at full life.
  • Chose Quill (3 Life) and Reed (5 Life). Rolled a skull and a shield. Transferred a wound from Quill to Reed.
  • Chose Kraven (1 Life) and Torch (4 Life). Rolled a skull and a shield. Transferred a wound from Kraven to Torch.
  • Chose Thing (6 Life) and Torch (1 Life). Rolled a skull and a blank. Moved an OM from each chosen figure's card to Sue's card.
  • Chose Thing (6 Life) and Torch (1 Life). Rolled a shield and a blank. Swapped Johnny and Ben's wounds
  • Chose Thing (2 Life) and Torch (1 Life). Rolled a shield and a blank. Swapped Johnny and Ben's wounds to no effect (they had 4 each).
  • Chose Thing (2 Life) and Torch (1 Life). Rolled a skull and a shield. Transferred a wound from Ben to Johnny, destroying Johnny.
• Damage Taken/Magical Defense: 1 wound from Invisible Woman in 1 attack, 3 wounds from Thing in 3 attacks (destroyed)

Unit Summary (Teekl):

• Damage Done (Normal Attack): 0 wounds to Sue in 1 attack, 1 wound to Johnny in 1 attack
• Familiar Bond: used to bond with and extend Klarion's clear sight throughout
• Agile Climbing: used for movement throughout
• Magical Healing: healed 3 wounds from himself, 0 from Klarion
• Damage Taken/Magical Defense: 12 wounds from Thing in 5 attacks

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Sif with 4 wounds

THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: Klarion is... hard to get a bead on. He's definitely hard to min-max in any meaningful way, though. Nice for him to have figures with high life around, so that he has cards with potentially a lot of wounds that he can move around, but even that isn't a reliable strategy, because sometimes he keeps coming up with teleport effects (as in that second game.... really was hoping to wound-swap Cable and Catman, or at least transfer some wounds).

Teekl is a pretty great value add for that last point, and just for the more straightforward bonding benefit. Just a decent blocker/wound-soak in general.

Probably not the kind of unit I'm going to draft a lot, but he's super unique and I can see him being really appealing to anyone who buys a lot of lottery tickets. He's definitely a gambler's card. It's super satisfying when you get the right effect in the right moment.

 

[Arkham]

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Public Playtesting)

Looks like you had some fun! He’s not a competitive draft by any means, which is probably for the best. Instead he offers exactly what his power promises, chaotic antics. Sometimes those antics will pay off big, sometimes they’ll bite you. Sometimes they’ll have notable results, game defining, and other times you’ll get minor stuff. It’s a guaranteed good time every time you go to roll and cross your fingers though.

Thanks for the tests! Glad to see he wasn’t dominant, and that the games were actually fairly close, considering a different result for a roll or two could have perhaps changed the outcome. Crazy to think such a chaotic design on paper could give such consistently close results.

 

[Yodaking]

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Public Playtesting)

From those tests it kind of looks like you could give Klarion a slight points drop if you wanted to, but then give Teekl a points bump up.

 

[Lazy Orang]

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Public Playtesting)

Looks like you had some fun! He’s not a competitive draft by any means, which is probably for the best. Instead he offers exactly what his power promises, chaotic antics. Sometimes those antics will pay off big, sometimes they’ll bite you. Sometimes they’ll have notable results, game defining, and other times you’ll get minor stuff. It’s a guaranteed good time every time you go to roll and cross your fingers though.

Yeah, as someone who plays to have a good time with fun characters rather than to actually win, I can imagine myself drafting this guy a fair amount.

 

[Scapemage]

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Public Playtesting)

From those tests it kind of looks like you could give Klarion a slight points drop if you wanted to, but then give Teekl a points bump up.

I agree. If the total cost comes out the same, boosting Teekl's value could help with balancing.

 

[Ronin]

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Public Playtesting)

I felt the same way at first, but I think it makes sense for Klarion to be a little over-costed and Teekl a little under. It's not breaking anything, since there's no good use for Teekl without Klarion (that I can come up with), and you're more likely to spring for Teekl after drafting Klarion that way.

 

[Yodaking]

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Public Playtesting)

While I agree Teekl won't ever be drafted alone, Klarion might be, and when he is he should be priced based on what he does without Teekl around.

 

[Arkham]

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Public Playtesting)

I’m not too worried either way, but generally I agree with making the prominent figure a little less and the tack on a little more as you’ll never draft Teekl alone. That said, we’ll see what 1 more set of tests show. He’s gone 3-3 this far at those point values. Teekl was not included in 2 of those games and both of those were losses. Regardless, I’m just happy they are seemingly pretty balanced at that point range given the randomness.

@Soundwarp SG-1 mentioned having run some tests so I’d be curious what his thoughts are.

 

[Tornado]

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Public Playtesting)

The main thing here is even when you think it is feeling right, run more tests.
There really needs to be more tests than usual to account for the variance.
Certainly looking good!

 

[Arkham]

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Public Playtesting)

I’m not against more tests, if there’s people to test. If we get 3 testers and it sits for weeks, I’d rather move onto something else. So far, things are close enough it’s feeling good, and his power has been used a lot of times for examples sake. I don’t think 5 testers are necessary, but that all depends on the results as we go.

 

[Soundwarp SG-1]

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Public Playtesting)

I can have my tests up late tonight.

 

[Tornado]

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Public Playtesting)

I do not think you need more testers, just more tests, maybe.
Eager to see Soundwarp's tests.

 

[Arkham]

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Public Playtesting)

I can have my tests up late tonight.

Thank you sir. We'll see how they go. I am eager as well. Such a different design, it's fun to see how it goes for others.

 

[Soundwarp SG-1]

Re: The Book of Klarion and Teekl (Public Playtesting)

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Klarion @235 points and Teekl @85 points

Army Test 1
Map: Sewer Labyrinth
Units: Teekle, Teekle, Little Star: Klarion (235), Teekl (85), Starman (Jack) (170), Skrull Inflitrator x1 (10)- 500 total vs Hey, Sword Sisters: Gamora (310), Katana (190)- 500 total

Spoiler Alert!

Game Summary:

Trying out a little mini-match to test the waters a bit. Klarion and Teekl gave it their best go here, but they really kinda need some blood (wounds) in the water already to get the most out of the antics and they didn't have the offense to get the train rolling to well. Once Teekle got some wounds Klarion managed to transfer a few back on the other team, but Gamora godslayed the Cat too quick for them to really get rolling. It was fun while it lasted though.

Unit Summary:

• Damage Done (Normal Attack): Hit Gamora for 1 early on.
• Chaotic Antics: Boosted himself and Teekl up a bit early on with a lucky roll, was fairly reliably moving wounds onto Katana with skull/blank and skull/shield rolls after that. Never really got any of the crazier results.
• Magical Defense: Did its normal thing
• Damage Taken: Katana chopped him up pretty good before Gamora finished the job.

[*]Damage Done (Normal Attack): None. Wasn't a great idea to attack crazy ninja chicks with a wee cat, so I didn't.
[*]Familiar Bond: The only thing that makes this army function
[*]Agile Climbing: Got some use, but nothing of particular note.
[*]Magical Healing: Healed one wound.
[*]Damage Taken: Gamora did some chip damage at first, then just destroyed Teekl with a Godslayer enhanced attack in the second round.
[/LIST][/COLOR]

Result: Gamora goes on with 3 life remaining.

Army Test 2
Map: Sewer Labyrinth
Units: How I Wonder Where You Are: Klarion (235), Teekl (85), Mojo (200), Blink (145), Mirror Master (130), Kronos (75)- 1345 total vs Ain't that Mr. Sinister: Mister Sinster (340), Sage (190), Wolverine (280), Jubilee (60)- 870 total

Spoiler Alert!

Game Summary:

Going for the full monty chaos team here. The team was able to mobilze fast enough to prevent the forming of super Ultra Instinct Wolverine and generally muck up the other team, but they did have the slight problem of not actually having anyone that could, you know, hit anyone. That is until Mojo and Klarion conspired for the biggest ratings boost in history and managed to get Klarion two back-to-back Mojoverse turns where he cast his antics on Wolvie and Essex through Teekl... and hit double blanks both times. Movie madness indeed.

Unit Summary:

• Damage Done (Normal Attack): None
• Chaotic Antics: The big thing was the blanks hitting for twelve wounds in one player turn, both times it was used before then didn't cause any effects.
• Magical Defense: Did its normal thing
• Damage Taken: None

[*]Damage Done (Normal Attack): None. Teekl was moved up field early on, but never got an attacking turn.
[*]Familiar Bond: Used to move up once early on.
[*]Agile Climbing: Got some use, but nothing of particular note.
[*]Magical Healing: Healed 1 wound.
[*]Damage Taken: Wolvie did a number on tabby, but couldn't quite finish the job.
[/LIST][/COLOR]

Result: Klarion, Mojo, and Kronos watch some flicks at full health, while a 2 life Teekl slinks back home.

Army Test 3
Map: Sewer Labyrinth
Units: Like a Pentagram in the Sky: Klarion (235), Teekl (85), Daimon Hellstrom (230), Hellfire: Ignition x3 (30), Hellfire: Fireball x4 (20)- 600 total vs The Way You Move Ain't Far You Know: Kraven (200), Polaris (200), Super-Ape (Gorilla) (200)- 500 total

Spoiler Alert!

Game Summary:

Basic idea here is Daimon just throws a bunch of wounds out everywhere early and then Klarion has plenty of targets for shenanigans later on. Klarion can also afford to cast a Hellfire spell or two better than most non-Demon spellcasters thanks to the healing if it comes to that. Daimon ended up throwing a few too many wounds though, so Klarion didn't really have much to do. He was able to transfer a wound around to finish off the Super-Ape and then just take out Polaris with good ol' fisticuffs... or point-blank magic energy blasts as the case may be.

Unit Summary:

• Damage Done (Normal Attack): Put the last two wounds on Polaris to close out the game.
• Chaotic Antics: Only used once, but it got the result I needed by moving a wound off of Polaris and fatally onto the Super-Ape.
• Magical Defense: Didn't matter.
• Damage Taken: None.

[*]Damage Done (Normal Attack): None.
[*]Familiar Bond: Used thrice.
[*]Agile Climbing: Got some use, but nothing of particular note.
[*]Magical Healing: Never got to that point.
[*]Damage Taken: Took 3 wounds from Polaris.
[/LIST][/COLOR]

Result: An unwounded Klarion nurses his 6 life kitty back to health as the only ones standing.

Overall: Really fun design, I like the gamblely nature of Chaotic Antics and the general feel of them. They'll be a bit of a bummer to go against late game sometimes, as a lot of units just aren't going to be able to beat them one on two on average, but they're hardly alone in that and it is fairly easy to take out Teekl early if a player is really concerned about them.