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The Book of Joker (III)

johnny139

johnny139

Never CoN a CoN man
The Book of Joker (III)

C3G DC SUPER SECRET EXCLUSIVE 53
ARKHAM UNLEASHED

C3G_JokerIII_comic.png


Comic PDF

C3G_JokerIII_mini.png


Mini PDF

The figures used for this unit is a HeroClix figure from the The Joker's Wild! set.
Its model number and name is #001 / The Joker.

The figures used for this unit is a HeroClix figure from the The Joker's Wild: Batman and His Greatest Foes Fast Forces set.
Its model number and name is #002 / The Joker.​

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Character Bio - While Batman is known for his seemingly-endless array of high-tech gadgetry, his arch-enemy and foil, known only as the Joker, is not without his own arsenal. Themed after childish gags and pranks - joy buzzers, squirting flowers, whoopee cushions, toy guns, and more - the Joker's strange and sadistic weaponry is guaranteed to shock and awe the people of Gotham.
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-Rulings and Clarifications-
  • N/A
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-Combinations and Synergies-

Incoming Synergy:
  • Joker may be swapped with a Joker Goon and have that Joker Goon roll defense dice in his place due to the Joker Goons' Clowning Around special power.
  • As a Human, Joker has these Human Synergies.
  • As an Insane figure, Joker has these Insane Synergies.
Outgoing Synergy:
  • N/A
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-Immunities, Benefits, and Weaknesses-

Immunities
Benefits
Weaknesses
  • N/A
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-Strategy, Tactics and Tips-
  • N/A
-Heroscapers Community Contributions-
 
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Re: The Book of Joker (III) - Design Phase

JOKER
???

HUMAN
UNIQUE HERO
PSYCHOPATH
INSANE

MEDIUM 5

LIFE 6

MOVE 5
RANGE 1
ATTACK 4
DEFENSE 3

160 POINTS

ACID FLOWER
Once per round, after revealing an Order Marker on this card and before moving with Joker, you may choose a figure adjacent to Joker and roll an unblockable attack die against that figure. If a figure receives a wound from this special power, until the end of Joker's turn, that figure cannot move, make leaving engagement attacks, or use any special power on any Army Card or Glyph.

"BANG!" GUN SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 4. Attack 3.
When Joker attacks a non-adjacent figure with this special attack, if at least one blank is rolled, each skull rolled counts for an additional hit and the defending figure subtracts 2 from their Defense number.

JOY BUZZER 13
If an opponent's small or medium figure moves adjacent to Joker, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 13 or higher, the opponent's figure cannot move, attack, or use any special power on any Army Card or Glyph for the remainder of its turn. Figures may only be targeted as they move into an engagement with Joker.
 
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Re: The Book of Joker (III) - Design Phase

Comic Art
Spoiler Alert!


Background
Spoiler Alert!
 
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Re: The Book of Joker (III) - Design Phase

I feel BANG! is too strong for a 160 point figure. perhaps change it to "that figure cannot not roll more than 2 defense dice".
 
Re: The Book of Joker (III) - Design Phase

quozl said:
I feel BANG! is too strong for a 160 point figure. perhaps change it to "that figure cannot not roll more than 2 defense dice".
Click to expand...

Was just about to say the same thing. Don't like the idea that his gun can beat the likes of Flash or Green Goblins Glider power when other guns don't. The limit to just two def. die works for me though. Then he can still be a threat to high defense figures while not all powerful.
 
Re: The Book of Joker (III) - Design Phase

I like what you have. I agree that he may come in a bit strong, but we'll see how it plays out. :up:
 
Re: The Book of Joker (III) - Design Phase

Let me put it another way. There's no way Joker's SA should be more powerful than Judge Death's.
 
Re: The Book of Joker (III) - Design Phase

The main idea of the BANG! gun is that - he fires it, oops it's just a toy, I'm relaxed now because he's just messing around, OH NO it's actually a gun, ouch, I'm dead. That's why the blanks are hits (because even the "blank" of a flag will hurt you) and why the defenses are passed over.

That being said I'm fine with making it a defense reduction power rather than a defense bypassing power. If so, I'd probably want to up it to 3 attack dice, though.

quozl said:
Let me put it another way. There's no way Joker's SA should be more powerful than Judge Death's.
Click to expand...

Like I said, I'm comfortable with fiddling BANG! if people would like it, but honestly, this criticism doesn't make sense to me. Judge Death's power is just not very good - we've had WASP and DAGGER for even longer, both of whom are significantly cheaper than Death (or than this Joker would be for that matter) and have 2 dice at range with a "cannot roll defense dice" clause. Taking Judge Death as our baseline for that sort of power is like taking Doomsday as the baseline for future healing powers.
 
Re: The Book of Joker (III) - Design Phase

johnny139 said:
quozl said:
Let me put it another way. There's no way Joker's SA should be more powerful than Judge Death's.
Click to expand...

Like I said, I'm comfortable with fiddling BANG! if people would like it, but honestly, this criticism doesn't make sense to me. Judge Death's power is just not very good - we've had WASP and DAGGER for even longer, both of whom are significantly cheaper than Death (or than this Joker would be for that matter) and have 2 dice at range with a "cannot roll defense dice" clause. Taking Judge Death as our baseline for that sort of power is like taking Doomsday as the baseline for future healing powers.
Click to expand...

Both Wasp and Dagger have 1 Attack at range, not 2. And they have less Life so are easier to take out.
 
Re: The Book of Joker (III) - Design Phase

quozl said:
johnny139 said:
quozl said:
Let me put it another way. There's no way Joker's SA should be more powerful than Judge Death's.
Click to expand...

Like I said, I'm comfortable with fiddling BANG! if people would like it, but honestly, this criticism doesn't make sense to me. Judge Death's power is just not very good - we've had WASP and DAGGER for even longer, both of whom are significantly cheaper than Death (or than this Joker would be for that matter) and have 2 dice at range with a "cannot roll defense dice" clause. Taking Judge Death as our baseline for that sort of power is like taking Doomsday as the baseline for future healing powers.
Click to expand...

Both Wasp and Dagger have 1 Attack at range, not 2. And they have less Life so are easier to take out.
Click to expand...

They have 1 attack and can attack twice - Dagger has to choose different targets, sure, but Wasp can attack the same person twice in a row, which is pretty much identical to 2 Attack. It's a lot better, actually - more flexible.

If we throw Wasp II into the mix, she costs 160 points (exactly the same as what I have in the SP), an equally useful special attack, complete immunity from range, Flying, and a super decent Avengers bonding-type power. Less Life and more Defense. I think they compare very well.

The BANG! I have up there is completely comparable to those three figures. It's significantly stronger than Judge Death's, yes, but he's the outlier in that lineup.
 
Re: The Book of Joker (III) - Design Phase

Yeah, Wasp and Dagger are better comparison points then Judge Death, in which case this SA looks about equal to those. That said, I kind of like the idea of going defense reduction instead, especially if we paired it with a D20 reduction so he'd have an advantage against Evasive Strike and similar powers (though I guess the negation in Acid Flower covers this area somewhat already).
 
Re: The Book of Joker (III) - Design Phase

I like the design. :)
 
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Re: The Book of Joker (III) - Design Phase

No defense and blanks count as skulls feels a bit much to me, but I'd be fine with 2 attack/0 defense or 3 attack/2 defense. I think we need to be careful on the amount of autowounding, especially with Acid flower giving him a once-per-round 50/50 shot of a wound, plus getting around defensive powers.

Otherwise, I'm on board with the design generally. Lots of little things that can be tweaked to get the balance right.
 
Re: The Book of Joker (III) - Design Phase

So for BANG!, what do we think of this?

"BANG!" GUN SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 5. Attack 3.
When Joker attacks a non-adjacent figure with this special attack, if at least one blank is rolled, the defending figures subtracts 3 from their defense dice.

I think it hits the theme pretty well - if he "blanks" on his attack by shooting out the little flag thing first, it lowers the enemy's defenses. I feel like we should go with defense reduction here rather than a cap because, well, think about it - it's pretty much a tiny spear. Even if Thor or Superman get tricked, it shouldn't be doing much damage. But if he manages to trick Robin or Gordon or a Beat Cop... it'll do some real damage.

My only concern, then, is that it'll be a bit weak. Maybe give it deadly strike if you hit a blank? That maxes out at 4 skulls, which is pretty deadly, but it'd be pretty situational.

"BANG!" GUN SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 5. Attack 3.
When Joker attacks a non-adjacent figure with this special attack, if at least one blank is rolled, each skull rolled counts for an additional hit and the defending figures subtracts 3 from their defense dice.
 
Re: The Book of Joker (III) - Design Phase

johnny139 said:
So for BANG!, what do we think of this?

"BANG!" GUN SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 5. Attack 3.
When Joker attacks a non-adjacent figure with this special attack, if at least one blank is rolled, the defending figures subtracts 3 from their defense dice.

I think it hits the theme pretty well - if he "blanks" on his attack by shooting out the little flag thing first, it lowers the enemy's defenses. I feel like we should go with defense reduction here rather than a cap because, well, think about it - it's pretty much a tiny spear. Even if Thor or Superman get tricked, it shouldn't be doing much damage. But if he manages to trick Robin or Gordon or a Beat Cop... it'll do some real damage.

My only concern, then, is that it'll be a bit weak. Maybe give it deadly strike if you hit a blank? That maxes out at 4 skulls, which is pretty deadly, but it'd be pretty situational.

"BANG!" GUN SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 5. Attack 3.
When Joker attacks a non-adjacent figure with this special attack, if at least one blank is rolled, each skull rolled counts for an additional hit and the defending figures subtracts 3 from their defense dice.
Click to expand...

Thematically it seems pretty cool but with it being 3 dice not sure how often it would get used. That's just thinking out lout though. Mechanically I like it.

EDIT: nevermind...I just realized that's his only Ranged attack so it should be used more than I thought.
 
Re: The Book of Joker (III) - Design Phase

Wait, it's representing a spear at 5 range?
 
Re: The Book of Joker (III) - Design Phase

I kind of like the double skulls with a blank reduced defense idea. It gives you an interesting range of possibilities.

4 skulls -3 def.
3 skulls
2 skulls -3 def.
2 skulls
1 skull
miss.
 
Re: The Book of Joker (III) - Design Phase

I like either of those over the current version; I agree the top one is probably a bit weak, but I worry the second one will be a bit too strong. We can see in testing though.
 
Re: The Book of Joker (III) - Design Phase

Yodaking said:
I kind of like the double skulls with a blank reduced defense idea. It gives you an interesting range of possibilities.

4 skulls -3 def.
3 skulls
2 skulls -3 def.
2 skulls
1 skull
miss.
Click to expand...

Looks like it could potentially be stronger than Mammoths attack that we had so much trouble balancing. The -3 may need to be toned down to -2 but we can find out.


also...
quozl said:
Wait, it's representing a spear at 5 range?
Click to expand...

He has a point that shouldn't be ignored.
 
Re: The Book of Joker (III) - Design Phase

I mean, I guess it's not a spear. Like... needle? Skewer? Kebab? Pointy bit? The flagpole only it's all sharp and stabs you? You know, this thing:

hHeQnhah.jpg


He tends to use it like a handgun most of the time. 5-7 seems inline with our handguns. :shrug:
 
Re: The Book of Joker (III) - Design Phase

I'm good either of those. Slight preference to the top option for simplicity, but either works.
 
Re: The Book of Joker (III) - Design Phase

I always took the 'spear' to still be propelled through the air via gunpowder.
 
Re: The Book of Joker (III) - Design Phase

Fair enough I just wanted to make sure it wasn't missed and it was discussed.
 
Re: The Book of Joker (III) - Design Phase

Yodaking said:
I always took the 'spear' to still be propelled through the air via gunpowder.
Click to expand...

Ah, that makes sense. I just wish I had rep to give for Japes' sharp pun!
 
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