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The Book of Joker (II)
- Thread starter Griffin
- Start date
Re: The Book of Joker - Designing
True. I chalk it up to one of those "we were just starting out and didn't really know what we were doing" things. That said, that card's been out foooooorever, and I'm not sure it's important enough to justify changing and asking people to reprint over.
True. I chalk it up to one of those "we were just starting out and didn't really know what we were doing" things. That said, that card's been out foooooorever, and I'm not sure it's important enough to justify changing and asking people to reprint over.
Re: The Book of Joker - Designing
I think unlike the other unique heroes that don't have a secret identity & use only there name, the fact that for the Joker everybody knows he had a past & was known as someone else but now no one is exactly sure of who he was because he lives the Joker persona 24/7 now. So I am fine with the ??? for his identity. Because it's not like he doesn't have a real name, it's just nobody knows it.
I think unlike the other unique heroes that don't have a secret identity & use only there name, the fact that for the Joker everybody knows he had a past & was known as someone else but now no one is exactly sure of who he was because he lives the Joker persona 24/7 now. So I am fine with the ??? for his identity. Because it's not like he doesn't have a real name, it's just nobody knows it.
Re: The Book of Joker - Designing
Well he isn't the only one though, there are a couple other Unique Heroes that don't have an identity because no one knows. So I think we are being inconsistent with it. With that said, I have lived with this inconsistency and oversight (that is what it truly is, as we decided to represent "non-identities" with ??? before realizing that ??? suddenly becomes an actual identity) for years now. I have just told myself that it is OK because Joker is frequently breaks the 4th wall.
Re: The Book of Joker - Designing
CURRENT:
JOKER TOXIN
After moving and before attacking, you may choose an adjacent figure that does not have the Insane personality. Roll the 20-sided die.
- If you roll 1-7, nothing happens.
- If you roll 8-18, the chosen figure receives 1 wound.
- If you roll 19 or higher, the chosen figure receives 2 wounds. If it is a Unique Hero, it now has the Insane personality instead of what is on its card and you may take control of the chosen figure and its Army Card. Remove any Order Markers on the Unique Hero's Army Card.
What if we did something a bit more crazy that has a plethora of different affects, just like Joker Toxin actually does? Joker Toxin has tons of different affects, and it seems to affect different people differently. So:
JOKER TOXIN
After moving and before attacking, you may choose an adjacent figure that does not have the Insane personality. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 12 or higher and the chosen figures is:
- a Common Squad figure, it receives one wound and you may choose a figure adjacent to it to receive one wound. or
- a Unique Squad figure, its card now has the Insane personality instead of what is on it and you may take control of the Unique Squad and its Army Card. Remove any Order Markers on the Unique Squad's Army Card.
- a Common Hero, it receives one wound and you may remove an Order Marker from its card. or
- a Unique Hero, its card now has the Insane personality instead of what is on it and you may take temporary control of the chosen figure and immediately take a turn with it. At the end of the turn, control of the chosen Hero returns to the player who controlled the Hero before Joker Toxin was used.
This direction is FAR more interesting IMO.
CURRENT:
JOKER TOXIN
After moving and before attacking, you may choose an adjacent figure that does not have the Insane personality. Roll the 20-sided die.
- If you roll 1-7, nothing happens.
- If you roll 8-18, the chosen figure receives 1 wound.
- If you roll 19 or higher, the chosen figure receives 2 wounds. If it is a Unique Hero, it now has the Insane personality instead of what is on its card and you may take control of the chosen figure and its Army Card. Remove any Order Markers on the Unique Hero's Army Card.
What if we did something a bit more crazy that has a plethora of different affects, just like Joker Toxin actually does? Joker Toxin has tons of different affects, and it seems to affect different people differently. So:
JOKER TOXIN
After moving and before attacking, you may choose an adjacent figure that does not have the Insane personality. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 12 or higher and the chosen figures is:
- a Common Squad figure, it receives one wound and you may choose a figure adjacent to it to receive one wound. or
- a Unique Squad figure, its card now has the Insane personality instead of what is on it and you may take control of the Unique Squad and its Army Card. Remove any Order Markers on the Unique Squad's Army Card.
- a Common Hero, it receives one wound and you may remove an Order Marker from its card. or
- a Unique Hero, its card now has the Insane personality instead of what is on it and you may take temporary control of the chosen figure and immediately take a turn with it. At the end of the turn, control of the chosen Hero returns to the player who controlled the Hero before Joker Toxin was used.
This direction is FAR more interesting IMO.
Good Pig
Well-known member
Re: The Book of Joker - Designing
It does kind of run into the same thematic wonkiness that I had to deal with for Fear Gas on Scarecrow.
If one Unique Squad figure is affected by Joker Toxin, why would all of them turn Insane even though the others might not be anywhere near the affected figure?
Just some things to consider. I do like the idea of adding an unpredictable element to the design rather than straight up auto-wounds.
It does kind of run into the same thematic wonkiness that I had to deal with for Fear Gas on Scarecrow.
If one Unique Squad figure is affected by Joker Toxin, why would all of them turn Insane even though the others might not be anywhere near the affected figure?
Just some things to consider. I do like the idea of adding an unpredictable element to the design rather than straight up auto-wounds.
Re: The Book of Joker - Designing
Looks cool Griff. So basically he's going to want to use it on his own teammates a lot to try to get a free activation of a Unique Hero along with Joker. Might be a little swingy with everything going on, but that can be worked out. The one thing that is iffy is that it would be weird for him to take control of a whole Unique Squad by just infecting one member. I mean they could be all over the map and would have no justification for switching sides, but I guess we could imagine the affected figure talking the others into switching sides and being very persuasive. It would definitely be extremely powerful to have Hired Guns, Man Bat Assassins or some others switch sides.
A problem with this being so potentially powerful is that there are so many powerful affects that are possible to be considered. But then again he can get taken out in a couple attacks by ranged attacks as he's not going to want to hide like the other one.
Certainly a lot to consider with this direction.
Looks cool Griff. So basically he's going to want to use it on his own teammates a lot to try to get a free activation of a Unique Hero along with Joker. Might be a little swingy with everything going on, but that can be worked out. The one thing that is iffy is that it would be weird for him to take control of a whole Unique Squad by just infecting one member. I mean they could be all over the map and would have no justification for switching sides, but I guess we could imagine the affected figure talking the others into switching sides and being very persuasive. It would definitely be extremely powerful to have Hired Guns, Man Bat Assassins or some others switch sides.
A problem with this being so potentially powerful is that there are so many powerful affects that are possible to be considered. But then again he can get taken out in a couple attacks by ranged attacks as he's not going to want to hide like the other one.
Certainly a lot to consider with this direction.
Re: The Book of Joker - Designing
I like these changes with a few adjustments:
JOKER TOXIN
After moving and before attacking, you may choose an adjacent figure that does not have the Insane personality. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 15 or higher and the chosen figures is:
- a Common Squad or Hero figure, it receives one wound and you may inflict one wound on a figure adjacent to the chosen figure; or
- a Unique Squad figure, its card now has the Insane personality instead of what is on it and you may take control of the Unique Squad and its Army Card. Remove any Order Markers on the Unique Squad's Army Card; or
- a Unique Hero,its card now has the Insane personality instead of what is on it and you may take temporary control of the chosen figure and immediately take a turn with it. At the end of the turn, control of the chosen Hero returns to the player who controlled the Hero before Joker Toxin was used.
1) 12 just seems a little too low for the huge effect this has. In particular, it absolutely cripples unique squads, so I'd rather have it a bit higher.
2) I condensed common squad and common hero figures into one grouping because I feel like 3 bullets gives a nice range of options but 4 feels like too much to me.
3) Just an attempt at cleaner language.
4) I don't think there's any mechanical relevance to giving a unique hero the Insane personality during a temporary turn. I can see the thematic value, but I don't think the line is worth the space on the card for a temporary turn.
Great stuff in general. Here's the proposed tweaks in pastable form:
JOKER TOXIN
After moving and before attacking, you may choose an adjacent figure that does not have the Insane personality. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 15 or higher and the chosen figures is:
I like these changes with a few adjustments:
JOKER TOXIN
After moving and before attacking, you may choose an adjacent figure that does not have the Insane personality. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 15 or higher and the chosen figures is:
- a Common Squad or Hero figure, it receives one wound and you may inflict one wound on a figure adjacent to the chosen figure; or
- a Unique Squad figure, its card now has the Insane personality instead of what is on it and you may take control of the Unique Squad and its Army Card. Remove any Order Markers on the Unique Squad's Army Card; or
- a Unique Hero,
1) 12 just seems a little too low for the huge effect this has. In particular, it absolutely cripples unique squads, so I'd rather have it a bit higher.
2) I condensed common squad and common hero figures into one grouping because I feel like 3 bullets gives a nice range of options but 4 feels like too much to me.
3) Just an attempt at cleaner language.
4) I don't think there's any mechanical relevance to giving a unique hero the Insane personality during a temporary turn. I can see the thematic value, but I don't think the line is worth the space on the card for a temporary turn.
Great stuff in general. Here's the proposed tweaks in pastable form:
JOKER TOXIN
After moving and before attacking, you may choose an adjacent figure that does not have the Insane personality. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 15 or higher and the chosen figures is:
- a Common Squad or Hero figure, it receives one wound and you may inflict one wound on a figure adjacent to the chosen figure; or
- a Unique Squad figure, its card now has the Insane personality instead of what is on it and you may take control of the Unique Squad and its Army Card. Remove any Order Markers on the Unique Squad's Army Card; or
- a Unique Hero, you may take temporary control of the chosen figure and immediately take a turn with it. At the end of the turn, control of the chosen Hero returns to the player who controlled the Hero before Joker Toxin was used.
Re: The Book of Joker - Designing
I want this Joker to feel like a real aggressive/dangerous threat, and not like the current "glyph/scenario Joker".
I want this Joker to feel like a real aggressive/dangerous threat, and not like the current "glyph/scenario Joker".
Re: The Book of Joker - Designing
JOKER TOXIN
After moving and before attacking, you may choose an adjacent figure that does not have the Insane personality. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 15 or higher and the chosen figure is:
JOKER TOXIN
After moving and before attacking, you may choose an adjacent figure that does not have the Insane personality. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 15 or higher and the chosen figure is:
- a Common Squad or Common Hero figure, it receives one wound and you may inflict one wound on a figure adjacent to the chosen figure; or
- a Unique Squad figure, its card now has the Insane personality instead of what is on it and you may take control of the Unique Squad and its Army Card. Remove any Order Markers on the Unique Squad's Army Card; or
- a Unique Hero, you may take temporary control of the chosen figure and immediately take a turn with it. At the end of the turn, control of the chosen Hero returns to the player who controlled the Hero before Joker Toxin was used.
Re: The Book of Joker - Designing
So no effects on Event Heroes?
No need to differentiate common squad from common hero.
So no effects on Event Heroes?
Re: The Book of Joker - Designing
I couldn't think of anything grand enough without being too much. Any ideas?
Good call.
I couldn't think of anything grand enough without being too much. Any ideas?
Re: The Book of Joker - Designing
Remove an OM?
Less severe than losing their powers for an entire round.
Remove an OM?
Less severe than losing their powers for an entire round.