The Book of Giganto (Atlantean Beast)

[IAmBatman]

Re: The Book of Giganto (Atlantean Beast) - Design

I think Toy is waiting on confirmation on base size and height from someone who owns the figure.

I gave it to him on Discord.

 

[Ericth74]

Re: The Book of Giganto (Atlantean Beast) - Design

Ah gotcha, that was the last I knew but it's been a while since I asked

 

[toyhandle]

Re: The Book of Giganto (Atlantean Beast) - Design

COMPETITIVE REVIEW BOARD CHECKLIST

Spoiler Alert!

Efficiency-

1. Does your design allow itself or figures to move/attack/take a turn/etc. instead of/in addition to your normal turn for revealing an Order Marker? Is it granting these benefits to too broad a range of units? Does it combine with other powers to create overly long or powerful chains of actions?
It allows multiple Giganto to move instead of the Glyph holder, and one Giganto to attack instead of the glyph holder. He’s not too fast, and very costly, so hopefully the multiple Wake Of Destructions won’t get out of hand. Willing to adjust of that is the case.

2. Does your design allow you to take actions during an opponent's turn? Can it combine with other powers to create tediously long reactions to enemy actions or a restrictive environment?
When he dies, he can wound nearby figures.

3. Does your design allow you to rearrange your Order Markers or otherwise bypass the costs of Order Marker requirements on the special powers of other figures?
No

4. Is your design doing anything outside of a player's turn, at the start or end of the round? Is the effect too powerful by itself or when combined with other powers?
No

5. Does your design have any powers that trigger anytime it moves as opposed to only when it moves normally on its turn? Will it be too efficient when combined with figures that grant extra moves to figures?
Wake of Destruction, first time used on a <1000pt Uncommon figure.

6. Is your design adding or subtracting from initiative rolls? Will it pair too easily with other figures that alter initiative or have powers triggering on the results of initiative rolls?
No

Potency-

1. Does your design have a chance to inflict wounds or destroy figures? Is it getting these chances too frequently or having too high a chance of success? Is the power balanced against expensive targets that can cause a massive swing in the game when destroyed?
Hopefully not too much.

2. Is your design adding to the stats or 20-sided die rolls of other figures in your army? Is it boosting a broad enough range of units effectively enough to become a 'mandatory' draft or inhibit future design space? Can it be combined with other boosts too easily?
No.

3. Will your design benefit from stat boosts or other enhancement to an overpowering degree? Will it restrict future growth within its faction or point cost by limiting available boosts to others?
No.

4. Does your design take control of enemy figures permanently or temporarily? Is it too difficult for your opponent to regain control of their figure or recover from losing the figure? Does the method of taking control expose the enemy figure to the powers of other figures in your army that can easily destroy it?
No.

5. Can your design heal itself or others or revive itself or others? Is it doing so in a way that an opponent cannot hope to overcome in certain scenarios?
No.

6. Does your design place enemy figures on its card or otherwise have an unconventional method of temporarily removing enemy figures from play? Will it guarantee your victory against a single remaining enemy figure?
No.

Chicanery-

1. Does your design restrict the movement of enemy figures, or allow you to move enemy figures? Can it do so in a way that results in an unwinnable scenario for your opponent if they are down to one figure, possess only figures with a range of 1, etc.? Can your design easily combine with other figures to greatly impede enemy figures or otherwise gain an excessive advantage?
No.

2. Does your design effect/change the placement of an enemy's Order Markers, or remove their Order Markers entirely? Can it force Order Markers to go onto cards that have no figures on the battlefield? Can your design easily combine with other figures to completely dictate the placement of an enemy's Order Markers or remove all of their Order Markers?
No.

3. Does your design inhibit your opponent from attacking your figures or make attacking a losing proposition? Are there scenarios or combinations that make your opponent totally unable to harm your figures through attacking?
No.

4. Does your design directly negate the powers of enemy figures or otherwise ignore them in a way that can completely disrupt the opponent's strategy or leave them feeling like they are stuck playing figures without special powers?
No.

5. Does your design become overly powerful in a podded group of figures, or provide significant benefit to your army without leaving your Start Zone?
No.

6. You can attack your own figures in Heroscape, does your design have any powers that will trigger off of doing so or otherwise wounding/destroying your own figures? Is this intentional on your part? Will the design be too efficient or potent when doing so?
You could kill him to trigger Gigantic Impact, but probably not the best use of Giganto.

CONSISTENCY CHECKLIST (LONG FORM)

Spoiler Alert!

1. Are the character’s name and secret identity listed in a consistent format with the rest of the project? If the character shares a name and/or secret identity with another character is it properly clear whether or not they are the same character?
Yes, there is Giganto the Mole Monster, but Uncommon rules allow both Giganto’s to be drafted together.

2. Consider the listed Species. Are the design’s power level, point level, and statistics (life, move, range, attack, and defense numbers) within the established range for that species? If it’s an outlier, is there thematic justification for this?
Yes

3. Consider the listed Uniqueness. Does the power text properly reflect whether the figure is a Hero or a squad, and whether it is Event, Unique, Uncommon, or common? If it’s Event, are the powers written with consideration for Event Hero rules? If it’s Uncommon, are the powers written to avoid stacking? If it’s common, are the powers written with this in mind?
Yes

4. Consider the Class and Personality. For each, is it a reuse? If so, is the character thematically consistent with other members of that Class or Personality? If not, is there a preexisting Class or Personality that would fit as well that could be used instead? Are there any existing synergies with that Class or Personality that are undesirable or that this Design would create that would be undesirable for preexisting members of that Class or Personality?
Good

5. Consider the listed Size. If the figure is double based, is it Large or Huge? Is the chosen miniature’s physical size consistent with other miniatures in the chosen size category?
Double, and yes.

6. Consider the listed Height. If you stack hexes up next to the figure, does the number listed for the height match up the layers of stacked hexes that match the miniature’s physical height?
Consider the listed Life number. Is this number consistent with other figures of the same species?
Yes

7. Consider the listed Move number. Is this number consistent with other figures of that power level?
Yes

8. Consider the listed Range and Attack numbers. Is this number consistent with other figures that use the same type of weapon or power to attack?
Yes

9. Consider the listed Defense number. Is this number consistent with other figures of the same or similar species and with the same or similar armor or other defensive equipment?
Yes

10. Does the figure have Super Strength? If it does or doesn’t, was this determined on the standard of that character demonstrating three things: A. The ability to throw a car B. The ability to survive a fall from a tall building and C. The ability to knock back another person when punching them?
Yes

11. Examine all of the special powers. Are there other powers that fit the same theme already in existence in the project? If so, can they be reused? If they can’t, can those other powers be used as a basis for the mechanics and wording?
Good

12. Examine any movement powers. Do they keep the figure’s speed consistent with other figures of their species and power level?
Examine any offensive powers. Do they keep the figure’s offensive potential consistent with other figures with the same powers and power levels or skills and weaponry?
Good

13. Examine any defensive, healing, or other tanking powers. Do they keep the figure’s survivability consistent with other figures of the same powers or power level or species and armor class?
Yes

14. Examine any leadership powers. Do they exceed the activation potential of the best existing leaders? If so, is there thematic justification for this?
Best with Atlantean Kings

15. Consider any powers that reference darkness, electrical, figure movement, fire, gas, ice, kryptonite, light/sensory, magical, poison, psychic, stealth, or water-based abilities. Do these behave in similar ways to other powers of this type, including mentions of immunities?
Is it clear for all special powers what phase of the turn and how they are triggered, what phase of the turn they are active in, and when and how they cease being active?
Yes

16. Are special powers listed in game, round, and turn order?
Yes

17. If a special power includes a D20 roll, does it make sense to list a number by the title?
N/A

18. If a power is being reused, are the title and wording copied accurately?
Yes

19. Has the power title or a very similar one been used before with vastly different mechanics?
Reuse of Wake of Destruction, and riff on the Great Evergreen falling power.

I propose we move to initial playtesting.

 

[MrNobody]

Re: The Book of Giganto (Atlantean Beast) - VOTE for Initial

Yea

 

[Splash]

Re: The Book of Giganto (Atlantean Beast) - VOTE for Initial

Just wanna say that bio cracks me up every time I read it XD

 

[Ericth74]

Re: The Book of Giganto (Atlantean Beast) - VOTE for Initial

Yea

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: The Book of Giganto (Atlantean Beast) - VOTE for Initial

yea

 

[Tornado]

Re: The Book of Giganto (Atlantean Beast) - VOTE for Initial

Yea

 

[Arkham]

Re: The Book of Giganto (Atlantean Beast) - VOTE for Initial

yea

 

[toyhandle]

Re: The Book of Giganto (Atlantean Beast) - VOTE for Initial

This passes.

Thanks everyone!

 

[Ericth74]

Re: The Book of Giganto (Atlantean Beast) - Initial Playtest

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Giganto (Atlantean Beast)

Version tested:

Spoiler Alert!

NAME = GIGANTO

SPECIES = GIGANTO
UNIQUENESS = UNCOMMON HERO
CLASS = GUARDIAN
PERSONALITY = DOCILE

SIZE/HEIGHT = HUGE 10

LIFE = 7

MOVE = 5
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 7
DEFENSE = 8

POINTS = 350

HORN OF PROTEUS
At the start of the game, if a Glyph of Horn of Proteus is not equipped to a figure you control, place a Glyph of Horn of Proteus on the card of a figure you control. Giganto cannot equip Glyphs.

WAKE OF DESTRUCTION
While moving, Giganto may destroy any destructible object or obstacle that is adjacent and unoccupied; may move through and never takes leaving engagement attacks from figures that are not huge; and does not stop its movement when entering water spaces. After moving, roll 1 unblockable attack die against each figure Giganto moved through.

GIGANTIC IMPACT
When Giganto is destroyed, before removing it from the Battlefield you must choose 3 spaces in a straight line from one of the spaces Giganto occupies. All figures on these spaces and all adjacent spaces, whose bases are not higher than the height of Giganto, receive one wound. Huge figures are not affected.

SUPER STRENGTH

NAME = GLYPH OF HORN OF PROTEUS
SUBTITLE = GIGANTO LEADER

ARTIFACT EQUIPMENT GLYPH
Instead of moving normally with a figure equipped with this glyph, you may move any or all Docile Giganto figures within 8 spaces of this glyph. Instead of attacking normally with a figure equipped with this glyph, you may attack with a Docile Giganto within 8 spaces of this glyph. Atlantean Kings cannot lose this glyph by receiving wounds unless they are destroyed.

Army Test
Map: .City Park
Units: 1100 pts – Sub-Mariner 250, Moon Knight 150, Giganto x2(Pink and Blue) VS 1100 pts – Ms Marvel 350, Captain America 240, Winter Soldier 240, Wolverine 270

Spoiler Alert!

Damage Dealt: R2T2 Captain America 1 wound(Wake) – Blue
R2T3 Captain America 2 wounds – Blue
R3T1 Winter Soldier 1 wound(Wake) - Pink


HORN OF PROTEUS: Namor started with the Horn and used it until the Whales died.

WAKE OF DESTRUCTION: Used whenever possible

GIGANTIC IMPACT: Used to inflict wounds on Winter and Cap

R1 – Movement
R2 – Gigantos move forward. Cap attacks Blue doing 2 wounds. Namor uses Water Avenger to place a wound on Cap. Winter Soldier attacks down on Blue from range doing 3 wound(6 skulls on 6 dice!). Pink moves and drops a Tree on Winter Soldier. Blue walks through Cap doing a wound and attacks Cap who blocks it. Pink walks through Winter(no damage) and drops a tree on Ms Marvel doing a wound. Blue walks through Cap(no damage) and attacks him doing 2 wounds. Cap attacks Blue doing 2 wounds which kills him. Blue falls on Cap doing another wound. Ms Marvel attacks Pink who blocks it.
R3 – Cap attacks Namor who blocks it. Winter attacks Pink doing 4 wounds. Pink walks through Winter doing a wound and drops a tree on Ms Marvel. Pink attacks Winter who blocks it. Winter Soldier attacks and kills Pink. Pink falls on Winter and Wolverine, doing a wound to Winter.
R4&5 – Moon Knight reappears. Moon Knight hits Winter Soldier for 1 wound. Winter Soldier hits Namor for 2 wounds. Moon Knight hits Cap and Winter with darts to take them both out. Wolverine and Ms Marvel take out Namor. Wolverine and Ms Marvel hunt down Moon Knight taking him out.

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Wolverine full life, Ms Marvel 2 wounds/3 life left

___________________________________________________________​

Army Test
Map: Conflict Chernobyl
Units: 1200 pts – Sub-Mariner 250, Ocean Master 250, Giganto x2(Pink and Blue) VS 1200 pts – Mr Fantastic, Invisible Woman, Thing, Human Torch, Aurora

Spoiler Alert!

Damage Dealt: R2T1 Mr Fantastic 1 wound(Wake) – Pink
R2T1 Mr Fantastic 1 wound(Wake) – Blue
R2T1 Invisible Woman 2 wounds – Blue
R2T2 Human Torch 1 wound(Wake) – Blue
R2T2 Aurora 1 wound(Wake) – Pink
R2T2 Invisible Woman 3 wounds – Blue – dead
R2T3 Torch 1 wound(Wake) – Pink
R2T3 Mr Fantastic 1 wound(Wake) – Pink
R2T3 Torch 1 wound(Wake) – Blue
R2T3 Torch 2 wounds – Pink – dead
R3T1 Aurora 1 wound(Wake) - Blue
R3T1 Thing 3 wounds – Blue



HORN OF PROTEUS: Namor used it until he died, was then picked up by Aurora and she was able to use it once before the game ended.

WAKE OF DESTRUCTION: Used whenever possible and did many wounds.

GIGANTIC IMPACT: Put a wound on Thing when Pink died.

Sub-Mariner starts with the Horn.
R1 – Movemwnt. Pink and Blue destroy some trees.
R2 – Pink and Blue both walk through Mr F each doing a wound. Blue attacks Invisble Woman for 2 wounds. Mr F rolls a 2 and can only get his turn. He attacks Pink who blocks it. Sub-Mariner Water Avenges doing a wound to Mr F. Pink walks through Aurora and Mr F, doing a wound to Aurora. Blue walks through Torch and Invisible Woman doing a wound to Torch. Blue attacks and destroys Invisible Woman doing 3 wounds to her. Mr F again rolls a 2 and only gets his turn. Reed attacks down on Namor who blocks it. Pink walks through Mr F, Aurora and Torch doing wounds to Mr F and Torch. Blue walks through Aurora and Torch, and puts a wound on Torch. Pink attacks Torch doing 2 wounds and takes him out. Reed rolls an 11 and Thing grabs height and attacks with 11 dice which is blocked. Namor Avenges and puts a wound on Thing. Thing attacks a second time doing 6 wounds to Pink. Mr F follows it up with 3 wounds to Namor.
R3 – Reed rolls a 12 and gets turns with Aurora and Thing. Thing attacks down on Pink killing him. Pink fell on Thing doing a wound. He then attacks Namor doing 2 wounds. Aurora attacks Blue who blocks it. Mr F attacks Namor, who blocks it. Blue walks over Aurora and Thing, doing a wound to Aurora. He also drops a tree on Reed killing him. Blue attacks Thing doing 3 wounds. Thing attacks and kills Namor knocking away the Horn Glyph. Ocean Master moves forward and uses his Trident but misses Thing.
R4 – Aurora takes a LEA but grabs the Horn Glyph. Blue walks through Thing killing him. Aurora uses the Horn to move and attack with Blue on Ocean Master doing 3 wounds. Blue attacks Aurora who blocks it. Order Marker 3 was on Thing. Ocean Master uses his Trident to put the last wound on Aurora for the win.

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Giganto(Blue) full 7 life, Ocean Master 3 wounds/2 life left.

___________________________________________________________​

Army Test
Map: City Park
Units: 1200 pts – Aquaman 230, Mera 210, Aqualad 60, Giganto x2(Pink and Blue) VS 1200 pts – Luke Cage, Iron Fist, Spider-Man 250, Punisher 180, Two Gun Kid, Songbird

Spoiler Alert!

Damage Dealt: R2T2 Punisher 4 wounds – Blue- dead
R2T3 Luke Cage 1 wound - Pink
R3T1 Cage 1 wound – Pink – dead
R4T1 Songbird 2 wounds – Pink
R5T2 Iron Fist 3 wounds – Pink
R5T3 Iron Fist 2 wounds – Pink - dead


HORN OF PROTEUS: Held by Aquaman and used most turns.

WAKE OF DESTRUCTION: Used as often as possible on both figures and DO's

GIGANTIC IMPACT: Each fell on a figure when destroyed.

R1 – Movement.
R2 – Blue moves and drops a tree on Songbird. Iron Fist attacks Blue doing a wound. Luke Cage attacks Blue doing a wound. Punisher hits Blue with a warning shot doing a wound. Blue walks over Luke and Iron Fist doing no wounds, but Blue drops a tree on Luke and Punisher. Blue attacks Punisher for 4 wounds killing him. Pink attacks Cage doing 1 wound. Iron Fist attacks Blue doing 3 wounds and he heals Cage 1 wound. Cage follows it up with an attack doing the final wound to Blue. Blue falls on Cage doing a wound. Pink walks over Fist and Cage doing no wounds. Pink attacks Cage. Cage takes a wound. Spider-Man hits Pink for 1 wound.
R3 – Pink walks through Cage and Fist doing a wound to Cage. Pink attacks Cage doing 1 wound killing him. Dead order marker 1 on Cage. Pink walks over Fist but does no damage, it attacks but Iron Fist blocks it. Songbird attacks Pink who blocks it. Spider-Man attacks down on Aqualad who blocks it. Pink walks through Fist doing no damage. Pink attacks Songbird who blocks it. Spider-Man webs Aquaman doing 2 wounds to him.
R4 – Aquaman moves back into the water. Pink attacks Songbird doing 2 wounds. Iron Fist attacks down doing 1 wound to Pink. Pink walks through Spider-Man doing a wound and then attacks Songbird doing 2 wounds killing her. Aquaman heals a wound. Spider-Man Swing lines and attacks down on Aquaman. Spider-Man webs Aquaman and attacks down, its blocked. Pink walks through Spider-Man doing no damage, it attacks up on Iron Fist who blocks it. Spider-Man attacks pink who blocks it.
R5 – Pink and Iron Fist exchange attacks both doing no damage. Pink attacks Fist doing 3 wounds. Spider-Man webs Aquaman doing 2 wounds to him. Pink attacks and kills Iron Fist. Aquaman heals a wound. Spider-Man attacks down on Pink doing 3 wounds.
R6 – Spider-Man kills Pink. Aquaman attacks Spider-Man doing a wound and heals a wound. Other attacks doing no damage.
End game – Aquaman, Mera and Aqualad take ourt Spider-Man, Two-Gun Kid takes out Aqualad before Aquaman can heal him. Aquaman One Shots Two-Gun to end the game

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Aquaman full 5 life, Mera full 4 life

GENERAL THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT: 350 points feels pretty close. Went 2-1, with a huge loss, big win and a closer win. Both the big loss and big win had terrible one-sided dice. I didn't have great luck rolling unblockables so their damage output could go up. Really a lot of fun to tromp around the map. There are times where some decisions need to be made as to if you take a turn with the King or do some work with Giganto(s) but that is the case with many bonding figures. I did feel like that put a figure like Namor out of position at times for his Water Avenger. The Horn Glyph adds an interesting wrinkle and I did see it used once by an enemy. Would be interesting to have it tested against some thief figure that could steal it and maybe use the Giganto(s) against its owners army. No real design changes needed. Maybe a bump in points or drop in life/defense if they show to be too strong.

 

[toyhandle]

Re: The Book of Giganto (Atlantean Beast) - VOTE for Playtes

Thanks Ericth! If they come in too strong, I'll bump down the life/defense, since the points are ideally 350.
Edited the wording on the Glyph to specify the user takes temporary control of Giganto when using it.

I propose a vote to move to Public Playtesting.

 

[Tornado]

Re: The Book of Giganto (Atlantean Beast) - VOTE for Playtes

Yea

 

[Ericth74]

Re: The Book of Giganto (Atlantean Beast) - VOTE for Playtes

Yea

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: The Book of Giganto (Atlantean Beast) - VOTE for Playtes

yea

 

[toyhandle]

Re: The Book of Giganto (Atlantean Beast) - VOTE for Playtes

Thanks for the votes! Just need @MrNobody and @Arkham.

 

[Tornado]

Re: The Book of Giganto (Atlantean Beast) - VOTE for Playtes

Legends can vote for playtesting as well.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: The Book of Giganto (Atlantean Beast) - VOTE for Playtes

You don't need all the Hero votes at any point except for the final vote. You just need a total of 5 yea votes from any combination of Heroes and Legends.

 

[MrNobody]

Re: The Book of Giganto (Atlantean Beast) - VOTE for Playtes

Yea

 

[toyhandle]

Re: The Book of Giganto (Atlantean Beast) - VOTE for Playtes

Ah, in that case, where my Legends at?

 

[Arch-vile]

Re: The Book of Giganto (Atlantean Beast) - VOTE for Playtes

yea

 

[toyhandle]

Re: The Book of Giganto (Atlantean Beast) - Playtesting

This passes.

Thanks guys!

 

[toyhandle]

Re: The Book of Giganto (Atlantean Beast) - Playtesting

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT:
Version Tested:

Spoiler Alert!

NAME = GIGANTO

SPECIES = GIGANTO
UNIQUENESS = UNCOMMON HERO
CLASS = GUARDIAN
PERSONALITY = DOCILE

SIZE/HEIGHT = HUGE 10

LIFE = 7

MOVE = 5
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 7
DEFENSE = 8

POINTS = 350

HORN OF PROTEUS
At the start of the game, if a Glyph of Horn of Proteus is not equipped to a figure you control, place a Glyph of Horn of Proteus on the card of a figure you control. Giganto cannot equip Glyphs.

WAKE OF DESTRUCTION
While moving, Giganto may destroy any destructible object or obstacle that is adjacent and unoccupied; may move through and never takes leaving engagement attacks from figures that are not huge; and does not stop its movement when entering water spaces. After moving, roll 1 unblockable attack die against each figure Giganto moved through.

GIGANTIC IMPACT
When Giganto is destroyed, before removing it from the Battlefield you must choose 3 spaces in a straight line from one of the spaces Giganto occupies. All figures on these spaces and all adjacent spaces, whose bases are not higher than the height of Giganto, receive one wound. Huge figures are not affected.

SUPER STRENGTH

NAME = GLYPH OF HORN OF PROTEUS
SUBTITLE = GIGANTO LEADER

ARTIFACT EQUIPMENT GLYPH
Instead of moving normally with a figure equipped with this glyph, you may take temporary control of any or all Docile Giganto figures within 8 spaces of this glyph and move them. Instead of attacking normally with a figure equipped with this glyph, you may take temporary control of a Docile Giganto within 8 spaces of this glyph and attack with it. Atlantean Kings cannot lose this glyph by receiving wounds unless they are destroyed.

Army Test
Map: Sacred Shrine
Units:
Sub Mariner (250), Ocean Master (250), Giganto (350)x2 (1200)
Atrocitus II (400), Dex-Starr (250), Bleez (350), Grid (200) (1,200)
Results:
This one is closer than it looks, but still a big win for the Atlanteans. The Giganto were nearly unscathed, but both Atlantean Kings were 1 wound away from destruction. Bleez never used Trecherous Rage, and if she had, it’s possible it could have generated those extra needed wounds. The Atlantean team were either taking massive wounds at once, or blocking it all, so Atrocitus wasn’t earning many additional turns with other Lanterns.

The Atlantean Kings should also have always been the targets for Threat Analysis and attacks, instead of a Giganto, although the Threat Analysis rolls often weren’t high enough to reduce defense.

In Round 1, if Bleez+Dex-Starr had moved out with Threat Analysis instead of Atrocitus, Atrocitus could probably have closed the gap across the map fast enough to get some attacks in. Round 1 ended up being Bleez+Dex-Starr catching up and repositioning to give Atrocitus clear sight instead of any attacking.

Wake of Destruction wounds were not from attacks, so many wounds on Red Lanterns were not the type to recharge Red Batteries; but they also weren’t shedding their markers either, so it was kind of a wash.
Spoiler Alert!

Spoiler Alert!

Game Summary:
Sub-Mariner takes the Horn of Proteus. Atrocitus is Grid’s Study. Grid chooses the green Giganto for Threat Analysis, and his defense is reduced, and Atrocitus moves up.
Initiative: Karat
R1T1(Player): Bleez and Dex-Starr move out.
R1T1(Player): Ocean Master places a Tide Marker on his card.
R1T2(Player): Atrocitus strafes sideways to gain height.
R1T2(Player): The Giganto move out.
R1T3(Player): Bleez and Dex-Starr move out.
R1T3(Player): The Giganto reposition

Bleez and Dex-Starr move with Grid.
Initiative: Toy
R2T1(Player): Ocean Master repositions and raises the tide.
R2T1(Player): Atrocious and Dex-Starr move to Giganto, Giganto blocks, Water Avenger inflicts a wound on Atrocitus.
R2T2(Player): Wake of destruction puts 1 wound on Atrocitus, 2 wounds on Dex-Starr and 1 on Bleez. Atrocitus blocks Namor.
R2T2(Player): Namor takes 4 wounds from Atrocitus and blocks Bleez.
R2T3(Player): Wake inflicts 1 wound on Atrocitus and Bleez. Namor attacks for 3 wounds on Atrocitus, who redirects 1 onto Dex-Starr.
R2T3(Player): Namor blocks Atrocitus.

Bleez and Dex-Starr move away from Namor/Atrocitus and over to Ocean Master.
Initiative: Karat
R3T1(Player): Atrocitus inflicts 1 wound on Namor, and Bleez puts 4 wounds on Ocean Master. Trident goes flying.
R3T1(Player): Wake inflicts a wound on Bleez, and Namor destroys Atrocitus.
R3T2(Player): OM2 Atrocitus
R3T2(Player): Blue Giganto’s wake inflicts a wound on Bleez and Dex-Starr, destroying Dex-Starr, and Giganto’s attack destroys Bleez.
R3T3(Player): OM3 Bleez.
R3T3(Player): Ocean Master grabs trident.

Grid moves up
Initiative: Toy
R4T1(Player): The Giganto move up.
R4T1(Player): Grid retreats.
R4T2(Player): The Giganto move up.
R4T2(Player): Grid advances.
R4T3(Player): Namor moves up.
R4T3(Player): Grid stays put.

Initiative: Toy.
R5T1(Player): The Giganto move up.
R5T1(Player): Giganto blocks Grid.
R5T2(Player): Grid takes a Wake wound, and blocks Giganto.
R5T2(Player): Blue Giganto takes a wound.
R5T3(Player): Wakes of destruction misses, and inflicts 2 wounds.
R5T3(Player): Giganto blocks.

Green Giganto is -2 Defense against Grid
Initiative: Karat
R6T1(Player): Giganto blocks.
R6T1(Player): Wake fails. 1 wound on Grid.
R6T2(Player): Giganto takes a wound.
R6T2(Player): Wake of Destruction destroys Grid.

Who won?
Green Giganto 2 wounds, Blue Giganto unwounded, Namor 5 of 6 wounds, Ocean Master 4 of 5 wounds.

Army Test
Map: Island Plane Crash.
Units:
Aquaman (I) (230), Mera (210), Aqualad (Garth) (60), Ocean Master (250), Giganto (350)x1 (1100)
Superman (430), Superboy (Jon) (120), Supergirl (330), Steel (John Henry) (220) (1,100)
Results:
This was a massive win for the Atlanteans, but, the Superman family had all 4 members side-by-side surrounding Giganto in a crescent, allowing Giganto to Wake of Destruction all over 3/4 of them each turn. The Superman Family have the speed to keep Giganto chasing them, and I think if they had zoomed past Giganto and smashed Aquaman instead, it could have gone much differently.
As it was played, the Superman family weren’t rolling spectacularly against Giganto, and his Wake Of Destruction hit 11 out of 17 rolls.
Spoiler Alert!

Spoiler Alert!

Game Summary:

Aquaman gets the Horn of Proteus.
Initiative: Karat. Steel reveals the X on Superman.
R1T1(Player): Superman and Supergirl move up.
R1T1(Player): Ocean Master raises the tide.
R1T2(Player): Steel and Supergirl move up.
R1T2(Player): Giganto moves up.
R1T3(Player): Superman stays put. Superboy moves up.
R1T3(Player): Giganto attacks down on Supergirl. Re-rolls block Giganto.

Initiative: Karat. Steel reveals the X on Steel.
R2T1(Player): Supergirl’s freeze breath fails. She attacks for 1 wound.
R2T1(Player): Wake hits both Steel and Supergirl. Giganto attacks Superman for 2 wounds.
R2T2(Player): Superman takes a LEA from Giganto. Superman and Steel deal 1 wound each to Giganto. Steel’s unblockable fails.
R2T2(Player): Wake hits 1 of 3, landing on Supergirl. Giganto attacks Superman for 1 wound.
R2T3(Player): Giganto blocks Superman and Superboy.
R2T3(Player): Wake hits Supergirl, Steel and Superman. Giganto attacks Superman for 1 wound.

Initiative: Toy. X is revealed on Superman.
R3T1(Player): Steel and Superman take Wake wounds. Supergirl blocks Giganto.
R3T1(Player): Giganto blocks Superman and Supergirl.
R3T2(Player): Wake hits Supergirl. Supergirl blocks.
R3T2(Player): Freeze Breath hits Giganto. Giganto takes 2 wounds.
R3T3(Player): Wake hits Steel and Supergirl. Attacks enough to destroy Superman, but Supergirl’s resolve keeps him alive.
R3T3(Player): Superman destroys Giganto, whose Gigantic Impact falls on Supergirl, Steel and a Palm tree. Steel is destroyed and Palm tree misses Supergirl. Superboy’s laser beam misses Aquaman.

Superman is destroyed.
Initiative: Karat
R4T1(Player): Superboy’s Laser misses Ocean Master.
R4T1(Player): Aquaman destroys Superboy. Supergirl blocks Aqualad.
R4T2(Player): OM1 Superboy
R4T2(Player): Supergirl blocks.
R4T3(Player): Aqualad is frozen and takes 2 wounds.
R4T3(Player): Supergirl blocks Aquaman. Aqualad destroys Supergirl.

Who won?
Aqualad 2 of 3 wounds, Aquaman, Mera and Ocean Master unwounded.

Army Test
Map: Conflict Cherobyl
Units:
Namor (280), Tempest(210), Giganto(350), Headpool (60) (900)
Mister Fantastic (235), Invisible Woman (215), Human Torch (225), Crystal (225) (900)
Results:
This was my match against Giganto, and it was a close one. I made sure to avoid being near any trees Giganto could destroy to wound me with, and placed my characters to minimize his options with Wake of Destruction. Giganto was extended outside of the Horn’s range at the end of Round 1, meaning Tempest had to take a turn moving up instead of using WoD, which bought me time to continue pummeling Giganto, and he fell R2T2. Flame On was crucial to Giganto’s destruction.

The Giganto team had a last minute change, as it originally had Aqualad (Garth) (60) instead of Headpool, but Aqualad and Tempest can’t be on the same team. Headpool was pretty useful, and the weak link turned out to be Namor, who Reed completely nerfed with Rubber Wrap. He wasn’t given the Horn either, so he was pretty much a waste.
Spoiler Alert!

Spoiler Alert!

Game Summary:
Tempest is given the Horn of Proteus. Namor’s Avenger Marker is placed on Tempest.
Initiative: Karat
R1T1(Player): Giganto moves up.
R1T1(Player): Headpool moves up. 11;Johnny and Reed move up. Reed destroys a tree.
R1T2(Player): Namor moves up.
R1T2(Player): Headpool moves up. 19; Johnny fails to wound Namor, Sue fails to destroy Evergreen, Crystal destroys it, and Reed fails to destroy Palm.
R1T3(Player): Giganto moves up, and destroys a bush.
R1T3(Player): Headpool moves up. 19; Johnny takes 1 LEA, and uses Flame On for Giganto and Headpool. Wisecrack lands, and Headpool blocks. Giganto blocks Crystal and Sue, Reed inflicts 1 wound.

Initiative: Toy. Namor takes a turn, landing 1 wound on Sue.
R2T1(Player): Headpool moves up. 13; Johnny takes 1 LEA and Flame On hits Giganto, and attack is blocked. Sue is blocked. Reed is blocked by Namor.
R2T1(Player): Garth moves up, Giganto puts 2 wounds on Crystal.
R2T2(Player): Headpool moves up. 8; Johnny takes 2 LEAs, Flame On misses Headpool, destroys Giganto, who lands on Crystal and Sue and the Ruin. Wisecrack lands, and Johnny destroys him. Reed lands 2 wounds on Namor.
R2T2(Player): Reed blocks Namor
R2T3(Player): 9; Namor blocks Torch and Reed.
R2T3(Player): Water Tempest destroys Torch.

Initiative: Karat
R3T1(Player): Water Tempest hits Sue and Crystal.
R3T1(Player): 3; Reed puts 1 wound on Tempest.
R3T2(Player): Tempest is blocked.
R3T2(Player): 8; Crystal puts 1 wound on Tempest and Reed whiffs
R3T3(Player): Water Tempest puts 1 wound on Sue
R3T3(Player): 20; Crystal inflicts 1 wound on Tempest, and places the Small Rock Outcrop. Sue is blocked. Reed reengages Namor and is blocked.

Initiative: Karat.
R4T1(Player): Water Tempest fails to wound Sue.
R4T1(Player): 9; Crystal is blocked. Reed inflicts 1 wound on Namor.
R4T2(Player): Water Tempest destroys Crystal and the Rock Outcrop, the Rock destroys Tempest.
R4T2(Player): 9; Sue and Reed are blocked.
R4T3(Player): Reed blocks.
R4T3(Player): 11; Reed and Sue are blocked.

Initiative: Karat.
R5T1(Player): Namor inflicts 1 wound on Reed.
R5T1(Player): 19; Sue is blocked, Reed destroys Namor.

Who won?
Sue with 4 of 5 wounds, Reed with 1 of 5 wounds.

THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY:
Cost is where I’d ideally like it to be. He breathes new life into Sub-Mariner, and the Atlanteans as a whole, and is draftable with just 1 or multiple Giganto.
Coming in a little strong balance-wise. I’ll drop his defense to 7, and the range on the Horn to 7. This will make him easier to wound, and make the Horn blower slightly more vulnerable. I had the Horn range at 8 originally to tie it to Sub-Mariner’s move when on a water tile, but being a double based figure means that the range of 7 is essentially 8 anyway, so it accomplishes that original intent, while making 7 a consistent value with Giganto’s stats.

GENERAL THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT:
Giganto can be intimidating, but he’s slow and awkward to move. Bombard him on his approach, kite him, keep him chasing you, and make sure you are spread out so he can’t stomp all over your team, or fall on a group when he dies. Try going for the Horn blower if possible; you might even steal the Horn and effectively gain yourself a Giganto. In the comics, the real trouble comes from the Horn blower, and that translates here.

KARAT’S THOUGHTS:
Giganto is a bit lumbering and a hulk which seems on point. He seems a tad on the too strong side currently having steam rolled the Red Lanterns and the Superman Family. They don't seem like much on paper but stick around a while and do a decent chunk of damage. They either need to go up a hair in points or receive some sort of debuff currently.

 

[Splash]

Re: The Book of Giganto (Atlantean Beast) - Playtesting

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Giganto
VERSION TESTED

Spoiler Alert!

NAME = GIGANTO

SPECIES = GIGANTO
UNIQUENESS = UNCOMMON HERO
CLASS = GUARDIAN
PERSONALITY = DOCILE

SIZE/HEIGHT = HUGE 10

LIFE = 7

MOVE = 5
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 7
DEFENSE = 7

POINTS = 350

HORN OF PROTEUS
At the start of the game, if a Glyph of Horn of Proteus is not equipped to a figure you control, place a Glyph of Horn of Proteus on the card of a figure you control. Giganto cannot equip Glyphs.

WAKE OF DESTRUCTION
While moving, Giganto may destroy any destructible object or obstacle that is adjacent and unoccupied; may move through and never takes leaving engagement attacks from figures that are not huge; and does not stop its movement when entering water spaces. After moving, roll 1 unblockable attack die against each figure Giganto moved through.

GIGANTIC IMPACT
When Giganto is destroyed, before removing it from the Battlefield you must choose 3 spaces in a straight line from one of the spaces Giganto occupies. All figures on these spaces and all adjacent spaces, whose bases are not higher than the height of Giganto, receive one wound. Huge figures are not affected.

SUPER STRENGTH

NAME = GLYPH OF HORN OF PROTEUS
SUBTITLE = GIGANTO LEADER

ARTIFACT EQUIPMENT GLYPH
Instead of moving normally with a figure equipped with this glyph, you may take temporary control of any or all Docile Giganto figures within 7 spaces of this glyph and move them. Instead of attacking normally with a figure equipped with this glyph, you may take temporary control of a Docile Giganto within 7 spaces of this glyph and attack with it. Atlantean Kings cannot lose this glyph by receiving wounds unless they are destroyed.

Army Test
Map: Mountain Spring.
Units: Sub-Mariner, Giganto X3 (1300) vs Doctor Doom (375), Doombot (95)x2, Iron Man (270), Black Panther (210), Stan Lee (50), Reed Richards (200) with Experimental Medicine, Web Pistol, Teleportation Belt, and Shrink Ray, Maggot Swarm (1300)

Spoiler Alert!

Stan Lee is a Vivacious Visionary. Namor moves up the Gigantos and then tries to get to water. He takes a beating and falls in round 2. I tried marching up height cause I didn’t want to deal with ranged attacks but vying for height proved a bad idea as the Gigantos are just too big and slow to compete on mountains. Panther getting the glyph was very bad as the most damage dealt to the Gigantos this game was from the Gigantos. They destroyed Doom but that was it and he came back anyway.

Damage Done (Normal Attack): Gigantos inflicted 5 wounds on Doom. Gigantos dealt 9 wounds to themselves when T’Challa had the horn and also they were walked into several pit traps.
HORN OF PROTEUS: Used.
WAKE OF DESTRUCTION: 1 on Doom.
GIGANTIC IMPACT: One fell on a rock.

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): One Doombot destroyed, Doom (1 wound), BP (1 wound), everyone else unwounded.

___________________________________________________________​

Army Test
Map: Sacred Shrine.
Units: Sub-Mariner, Giganto, Atlantean Palace Guards, Skrull Imposter (800) vs Cap (I), Black Panther (II), Luke Cage, Human Torch (Android) (800)

Spoiler Alert!

Namor plans much better this game, finding a water corner and surrounding himself with guards early on. Giganto wipes Cap while Atlantean defenses hold strong. A skrull pops up in place of a fallen guard, still keeping Namor from being engaged. Guard spends a turn firing on Luke. Torch burns a hole through the skrull into Namor. Torch keeps burning Namor through his guard with Fireball, Namor uses Water Avenger to wound Luke. Panther deals 2 to Giganto and another 2, Giganto falls and KOs BP, which we assume cancels the Secret Plan extra turn. Afterwards is a close battle but Namor falls.

Damage Done (Normal Attack): Giganto inflicted 4 wounds on Cap, 1 wound on Panther.
HORN OF PROTEUS: Used.
WAKE OF DESTRUCTION: 2 on BP, 1 on Cap
GIGANTIC IMPACT: 1 wound on Panther.

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Luke Cage (2 wounds), Torch (3 wounds).

THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: The first game was me trying out maximum Gigantos, Namor fell fast and it was a high ground map, so it was essentially a test of how they do in the worst case scenario as opposed to the second game where Namor had a guard in place which really helped maximize the Giganto’s rampage while Namor was protected. Namor hits harder near water which would normally make you want to just use him instead anyway, but WoD makes Giganto worth it.

Stats are solid, I like the high life.
HORN OF PROTEUS: You need to ensure you have other heroes who can grab it or moreso the guard for Namor, if the enemy gets ahold of whale control it is very bad for your team.
WAKE OF DESTRUCTION: Hits about half the time, which is reasonable. It’s a fun Godzilla power.
GIGANTIC IMPACT: Falling whale didn’t get used much overall, but it took out BP in that last game and stopped a bonding so that was cool.


TOYHANDLE'S THOUGHTS:
GAME 1:
3 Giganto is probably too much of a good thing. The map wasn't ideal either, since they had a high hill to climb. And up against the Doominati, it was a straightforward army vs a shenanigan army. Perhaps some decisions could have been made to make the game closer, like getting Namor to the mountain's base water earlier, and guarding him with Giganto, but I think the Giganto team were at a disadvantage due to having fewer tools to work with. This game showed that when the Horn falls into enemy hands, they can be their own worst enemy.

GAME 2:
Pretty close. Giganto smashed Cap really easily, but Black Panther took him down with three lucky 5-Skull attacks. Gigantic Impact took Black Panther with him, though. Although Namor had beefy defense from the Atlantean Guard pod, their podding made Namor susceptible to Torch's Special Attack burns.

OVERALL:
After one close loss and one massive loss, I don't think their stats need to change any. As is, he's ready for release, but Splash had a great idea to put Blob's Blubber as a power on the card. That would require some defensive stat changing and additional testing. I'm open to doing that, but this has been in playtesting for a while, so unless someone expresses interest in signing up, I'm fine releasing as is.

GENERAL THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT: It’s a must to draft with the Atlantean Guard as they will protect your King and give you more Giganto turns, as well as stopping the whales from falling into enemy hands. For the Gigantos themselves I wouldn’t draft more than two, but I very much like them as Uncommons.

The only downside is it feels like kind of a miss they don’t have Blubber, but it might be too late in the game to add that in. I'd also expand the Horn to Atlantean Queens as well for Mera and Namora/Namorita/Dorma.

Fun whales to smash opponents spices up the Atlanteans. The first game was bad moves on my part, I think given you sacrifice Namor turns to use Gigantos, the whales are worth cost.

Last note: Sub-Mariner, Giganto, Atlantean Guard, and Mera are a 1,000 point army I'd like to see.

 

[Splash]

Re: The Book of Giganto (Atlantean Beast) - Playtesting

Probably want to add "this Giganto" language to the powers where need be.