The Book of General Zod

[Lord Pyre]

Re: The Book of General Zod - VOTE for Reeval

Thanks Bats!

Yea

 

[Soundwarp SG-1]

Re: The Book of General Zod - VOTE for Reeval

yea

 

[Arch-vile]

Re: The Book of General Zod - VOTE for Reeval

abstain for the same reasons as YK. I trust y'all but I stopped following this.

 

[Lazy Orang]

Re: The Book of General Zod - VOTE for Reeval

Thanks, chap. Never done a reeval before and I didn't know what official procedure was.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: The Book of General Zod - VOTE for Reeval

Not sure we really have one, so we do what we do. This passes to reevaluation playtesting. I'll post it in that thread.

 

[Karat]

Re: The Book of General Zod - Reevaluation Testing Phase

Yup, basically treat it like you've gone through the Design and Initial phases and are ready for the playtesting phase, which he just passed to.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: The Book of General Zod - Reevaluation Testing Phase

And then as playtests come in, just treat it like it's in playtesting and when we have enough info, hopefully we can move to final editing, make card updates, and vote to re-release from there.

 

[Karat]

Re: The Book of General Zod - Reevaluation Testing Phase

And linking! Gotta make sure them playtests get linked as they come in as well (typically the first thing I do now that we don't get them via PM anymore).

 

[Lord Pyre]

Re: The Book of General Zod - Reevaluation Testing Phase

Bats, did you pay your points for taking over this as LD?

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: The Book of General Zod - Reevaluation Testing Phase

I'm not the LD, LO is.

 

[Lazy Orang]

Re: The Book of General Zod - Reevaluation Testing Phase

I'll probably be able to do the Initial sometime next week. Is it 2 or 3 tests for a Reeval initial?

As I said, yeah, I'm definitely happy to take this over, but I just didn't know the procedure for Reeval, so I felt a tad paralysed. Not often good at doing things I've not done before - I freeze.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: The Book of General Zod - Reevaluation Testing Phase

I think we're just doing tests in general, so no need to treat it like an initial versus just tests.

 

[Karat]

Re: The Book of General Zod - Reevaluation Testing Phase

Most of us do. Just ask and we'll help

 

[LordVenoc]

Re: The Book of General Zod - Reevaluation Testing Phase

Tested version:

Spoiler Alert!

NAME = GENERAL ZOD
SECRET IDENTITY = DRU-ZOD

SPECIES = KRYPTONIAN
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = GENERAL
PERSONALITY = EGOMANIACAL

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 6

MOVE = 6
RANGE = 5
ATTACK = 4
DEFENSE = 6

POINTS = 380-400

GENERAL OF NEW KRYPTON
After revealing an Order Marker on this card and instead of taking a turn normally, you may do up to two of the following:
* Move up to 2 Kryptonian Soldier Heroes you control that have not moved or attacked this player turn.
* Take a turn with 1 Unique Kryptonian Hero you control that has not previously moved this player turn.
* One at a time, for each Kryptonian Spy you control, choose a figure engaged with that Kryptonian Spy and roll 1 unblockable attack die against that figure.
Each option may only be chosen once per player turn. General Zod may be the chosen Hero.

KNEEL BEFORE ZOD
When Zod attacks an adjacent figure, roll two additional attack dice and if Zod has height advantage, the adjacent defending figure rolls two fewer defense dice.

KRYPTONIAN DEFENSE
When rolling defense dice against a normal attack from a figure that is not a Kryptonian, if at least one shield is rolled, all blanks rolled count as extra shields.

SUPER STRENGTH

FLYING

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM
NAME OF THE TEST UNIT General Zod
Army Test
Map: Conflict Chernobyl
Units: General Zod (390), Kryptonian Infiltrator x2, Kryptonian Solider x3 (1310 points) vs. Fan 4 + She-Hulk (1310 points)
Unit Summary
Damage: 7 normal, 2 LEA
Abilities:

Spoiler Alert!

Round 1 – Round 1 Soldiers and Zod advance quickly together. Zod gets a quick 3 wounds on She Hulk before Sue can arrive to defend.
Round 2 – Johnny tries to Flame on, but Zod hits him and Johnny fails the roll. Zod takes a wound from Reed. A soldier wounds Sue, and then another wound later.
Round 3 – Kryptonians roll a blank, getting a spy adjacent to Sue. They win initiative and a 1-2 punch of Spy soldier kills Sue. Johnny burns Zod after getting hit by him, then Thing knocks him in an inch of his life. Thing whiffs, taking 4 wounds from Zod. Thing knocks out Zod.
Round 4 – A Spy puts 4 wounds on Reed. Thing knocks out two Soldiers with Clobberin Time. Thing kills a spy and softens up the Soldier enough for She Hulk to knock him out.
Round 5 – Johnny softens up spy, who kills him, but falls to She Hulk.
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Fantastic Five win. 4 wounds on Thing and Mr Fantastic. She Hulk full health.

_____________________________________________________________​

Army Test
Map: Conflict Chernobyl
Units: General Zod (380), Non, Kryptonian Solider x3 (1310 points) vs. Fan 4 + She-Hulk (1310 points)
Unit Summary
Damage: 9 wounds.
Abilities:

Spoiler Alert!

Round 1 – Non advances with some soldiers in tow. He puts three wounds on IW. Torch fails to flame on, Sue wounds Non and Thing knocks Non out of the game. Zod is able to command the soldiers into taking out Sue.
Round 2 – Johnny burns a Soldier to a crisp that Reed softened up last round. Soldiers accomplish nothing. Clobberin Time takes out one, and She Hulk puts him 1 life away.
Round 3 – Zod makes Reed kneel. He wounds She Hulk for three.
Round 4 – Thing knocks Zod down to 1 life, and he miraculously defends against like 3 clobberin time rolls. He does wound Thing once in the process.
Round 5 – Zod manages to take out She Hulk. When Zod survives another pair of Clobberin Time rolls, the final remaining soldier sneaks behind to kill Torch, in a miraculous show of Zod’s bonding actually mattering for once in his life. Zod is finally knocked out, as is the soldier.

Who won and how many wounds did they have? Fantastic 5 win. Thing remains with 1 wound. .

_____________________________________________________________​

[FONT=&quot]
GENERAL THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT: This faction solely functions based on the fact that they are Kryptonians. Not because the synergy is at all worth a dime. I could have gotten arguably the same functionality out of Robot, and had room for an extra spy in these games. But I wouldn't want the spies, because the tedious task of getting them engaged means you aren't taking a turn with a decent hitter. And the movement on the Soldiers is absolutely worthless after Round 1, MAYBE Round 2 turn 1. Zod functions fine as a bruiser, but not as a leader. So, yes its better than it was. But not enough for me to pick this faction at the point values necessary for it to function.[/FONT]

 

[Yodaking]

Re: The Book of General Zod - Reevaluation Testing Phase

As we go through re-testing here, we should include a copy of what exactly was tested with each play test. I suspect this one isn't done being tweaked.

 

[LordVenoc]

Re: The Book of General Zod - Reevaluation Testing Phase

Good call. I edited it in to the test report above.

 

[Lazy Orang]

Re: The Book of General Zod - Reevaluation Testing Phase

Hmm... feels like the Spies could use boosting... I wonder if this'd help?

NAME = GENERAL ZOD
SECRET IDENTITY = DRU-ZOD

SPECIES = KRYPTONIAN
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = GENERAL
PERSONALITY = EGOMANIACAL

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 6

MOVE = 6
RANGE = 5
ATTACK = 4
DEFENSE = 6

POINTS = 380-400

GENERAL OF NEW KRYPTON
After revealing an Order Marker on this card and instead of taking a turn normally, you may do up to two of the following:
* Move up to 2 Kryptonian Soldier or Spy Heroes you control that have not moved or attacked this player turn.
* Take a turn with 1 Unique Kryptonian Hero you control that has not previously moved this player turn.
* One at a time, for each Kryptonian Spy you control, choose a figure engaged with that Kryptonian Spy and roll 1 unblockable attack die against that figure.
Each option may only be chosen once per player turn. General Zod may be the chosen Hero.

KNEEL BEFORE ZOD
When Zod attacks an adjacent figure, roll two additional attack dice and if Zod has height advantage, the adjacent defending figure rolls two fewer defense dice.

KRYPTONIAN DEFENSE
When rolling defense dice against a normal attack from a figure that is not a Kryptonian, if at least one shield is rolled, all blanks rolled count as extra shields.

SUPER STRENGTH

FLYING


*************


Making Spies part of bullet-point 1 should make bullet point 3 far more important and usable.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: The Book of General Zod - Reevaluation Testing Phase

Thinking about it, do we even need to specify Class on that bullet? Like LV said, Robot does this so much better for so much less. Why not just let him move two Kryptonians for that bullet?

I agree that it helps make the third bullet more relevant, though. Good call.

Also, according to the calculator, I'd say this guy should be about 310 points. His base stats only get him to 185 points and his powers are not worth more than 125 points, IMO. Weak Robot power (2), Flying (3), good offensive boost (4), and OK defensive boost (3). Even if you give the bonding power a 3 (which I disagree with) he's at 325.

So I think if we're determined not to make his bonding any better, we should work to properly cost him and open up his army build options.

 

[Lazy Orang]

Re: The Book of General Zod - Reevaluation Testing Phase

Hmm... one thing I kind of wanted was the encouragement of 'combined arms' tactics. Something that encourages you to take him with the Uncommon Kryptonians (and Ursa) and make them better, while still making the big Kryptonians a good option for a heavy assault unit. I don't really want to leave the Soldiers trailing behind as irrelevant again.
Hmmm... odd thought, but would adding a 4th bullet help here?

GENERAL OF NEW KRYPTON
After revealing an Order Marker on this card and instead of taking a turn normally, you may do up to two of the following:
* Move up to 2 Kryptonian Soldier or Spy Heroes you control that have not moved {cut} this player turn.
* Take a turn with 1 Unique Kryptonian Hero you control that has not previously moved this player turn.
* Attack with up to 2 Kryptonian Soldiers you control that have not attacked this player turn.
* One at a time, for each Kryptonian Spy you control, choose a figure engaged with that Kryptonian Spy and roll 1 unblockable attack die against that figure.
Each option may only be chosen once per player turn. General Zod may be the chosen Hero.

 

[johnny139]

Re: The Book of General Zod - Reevaluation Testing Phase

The reason I don't want the power opened up is because the whole design is this card is about working with the Soldiers and Spies. If you're getting rid of that you may as well just be making a new Zod.

Like, yeah, the Soldiers and Spies are really bad, but we knew that going in.

 

[Lord Pyre]

Re: The Book of General Zod - Reevaluation Testing Phase

You could do an uncommon call out.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: The Book of General Zod - Reevaluation Testing Phase

Infiltrators and Non actually seem to be priced about right according to the calculator (@Karat and I played around with estimates last night). Ursa is about 30-40 points overcosted and Soldiers are about 40 points overcosted. Zod is about 60-80 points overcosted.

If we want to keep it simple and focus on just Zod, I'd go with LO's suggestion and a cost of 320 here. But I'm not the LD.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: The Book of General Zod - Reevaluation Testing Phase

What about something like this? Seems pretty clean, seems on point with how he's been, clearly favors Uncommons?

GENERAL OF NEW KRYPTON
After revealing an Order Marker on this card and instead of taking a turn normally, you may do up to two of the following:
* Move up to 1 Unique Kryptonian Hero you control or 2 Uncommon Kryptonian Heroes you control that have not moved or attacked this player turn.
* Attack with 1 Unique Kryptonian Hero you control or 2 Uncommon Kryptonian Heroes you control that have not previously moved this player turn.
* One at a time, for each Kryptonian Spy you control, choose a figure engaged with that Kryptonian Spy and roll 1 unblockable attack die against that figure.
Each option may only be chosen once per player turn. General Zod may be the chosen Hero.

And then try him at like 340?

 

[MrNobody]

Re: The Book of General Zod - Reevaluation Testing Phase

I don’t like how it doesn’t allow you to trigger any before attacking abilities or anything of the sort, cause you’re not taking a full turn. X-Ray Vision, Focused Heat Vision, etc. I feel like the Unique Kryptonians have a lot of those. However, if that’s what needs to be done to get him off the ground, it’s hardly the end of the world. We could also do it Cyclops II style and let them take turns during which they can either only move or only attack.

 

[LordVenoc]

Re: The Book of General Zod - Reevaluation Testing Phase

I don’t like how it doesn’t allow you to trigger any before attacking abilities or anything of the sort, cause you’re not taking a full turn. X-Ray Vision, Focused Heat Vision, etc. I feel like the Unique Kryptonians have a lot of those. However, if that’s what needs to be done to get him off the ground, it’s hardly the end of the world. We could also do it Cyclops II style and let them take turns during which they can either only move or only attack.

I think that's fine though, as I think for the intent and spirit of the original draft, he's not supposed to be working with them. All the thematic Kryptonians for this faction currently have 0 of those powers, so this hurts them none.