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The Book of Gamora (II)

Ronin

Symbiotic
Site Supporter
The Book of Gamora (II)

C3G MARVEL WAVE 28
MARVEL COSMIC


C3G_GamoraII_comic.png

Comic PDF

C3G_GamoraII_mini.png

Mini PDF

The figure used for this unit is a Heroclix figure from the Guardians of the Galaxy set.
Its model number and name are #001 / Gamora.
The figure used for this unit is a Heroclix figure from the Guardians of the Galaxy Gravity Feed set.
Its model number and name are #201 / Gamora.

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Character Bio - As one of the most recurring members of Star-Lord's Guardians of the Galaxy, Gamora has established a reputation for herself as a force for good in the universe, and worked alongside organizations like the Avengers and the Nova Corps. But she's also the adopted daughter of Thanos, and she's every bit as dangerous as daddy. Gamora was raised by Thanos to be a weapon, and she uses that against him. She can be single-minded in her opposition to Thanos, occasionally veering into uncomfortably extremist territory herself.
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-Rulings and Clarifications-
  • N/A
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-Combinations and Synergies-

Incoming Synergy:
Outgoing Synergy:
  • N/A
Immunities, Benefits, and Weaknesses:
  • As a figure with the Super Strength special power, Gamora interacts differently with these special powers.
_________________________________________________________________

-Strategy, Tactics and Tips-
  • N/A
-Heroscapers Community Contributions-
  • Initial playtest: Ronin
  • Second playtest: Arkham
  • Third playtest: MrNobody
  • Art: Comic, Figure, Background
  • Art by Arkham
  • Gamora created by Jim Starlin
  • Comic art by Gabriele Dell'Otto
 
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Re: The Book of Gamora (II) (Design)

NAME = GAMORA
SECRET IDENTITY =

SPECIES = ZEN-WHOBERI
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = DESTROYER
PERSONALITY = REPENTANT

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 6

MOVE = 6
RANGE = 5
ATTACK = 5
DEFENSE = 6

POINTS = 300


FLANKING STRIKE
After revealing an Order Marker on the card of another Unique Hero you control, instead of an attack with that Hero, you may move Gamora. After moving Gamora, you may choose one figure engaged with both Gamora and that Hero and roll two unblockable attack dice against the chosen figure. You may only use this special power once per turn.

TRAINED TO PERFECTION
Before attacking with Gamora, you may choose to either:
-attack any or all figures adjacent to Gamora, rolling each attack separately; or
-add one automatic skull when attacking an adjacent figure.

HONED REFLEXES
After defending with Gamora, you may choose to either:
-inflict a wound on the attacking figure, if Gamora had excess shields and is within 5 clear sight spaces of the attacking figure; or
-move Gamora up to 2 spaces. Gamora will not take any leaving engagement attacks when moved with this special power.

SUPER STRENGTH
 
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Re: The Book of Gamora (II) (Design)

Comic:
Spoiler Alert!


Mini:
Spoiler Alert!


Background:
Spoiler Alert!
 
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Re: The Book of Gamora (II) (Design)

FTR I have this card ready to go, so just let me know come time. It'd be cool to have Backstab able to be used instead of one of Drax's attacks. I think as worded that should be able to work. Though, we may want some verbiage like "once per turn".

As for the class of Destroyer, let me know if anyone would prefer that on Drax so Gamora can use Warrior instead. I think both work for either, so no real preference from me.
 
Re: The Book of Gamora (II) (Design)

Okay, picking up from where we left off in the GotG Workshop.... here's Gamora! Last piece of the Guardians puzzle.
 
Re: The Book of Gamora (II) (Design)

FTR I have this card ready to go, so just let me know come time.

Awesome! I'll ping you when we're ready.

It'd be cool to have Backstab able to be used instead of one of Drax's attacks. I think as worded that should be able to work. Though, we may want some verbiage like "once per turn".

That does sound cool... probably need a wording tweak to clarify one way or the other, since it's a little ambiguous how it interacts with multi-attacks right now.

Letting it replace just one attack from a multi-attacker is super strong, but it does give her a really strong tie to the Guardians.

As for the class of Destroyer, let me know if anyone would prefer that on Drax so Gamora can use Warrior instead. I think both work for either, so no real preference from me.

Yeah, I feel the same way - either way works. Destroyer is a better fit for Drax nominally, but a better fit for Gamora synergistically.

I did actually just test Drax with Martian Manhunter II, so that might be reason enough to leave it as-is and let him stay a Warrior.
 
Re: The Book of Gamora (II) (Design)

Power set looks good, happy with the overall package.

The class is a bit of a sticking point - Destroyer doesn't feel super appropriate for the era of Gamora that's represented by the mini (Marvel NOW! era GOTG). At that point, she's firmly heroic and had a lot of her edges sanded off, and destruction isn't really her bag any more, nor is she really likely to hang out with Thanos or anything. Not sure how married we are to it, or what parts are worth shuffling around.
 
Re: The Book of Gamora (II) (Design)

The class is a bit of a sticking point - Destroyer doesn't feel super appropriate for the era of Gamora that's represented by the mini (Marvel NOW! era GOTG). At that point, she's firmly heroic and had a lot of her edges sanded off, and destruction isn't really her bag any more, nor is she really likely to hang out with Thanos or anything. Not sure how married we are to it, or what parts are worth shuffling around.

I haven't actually read that run, but I gather that she does end up as the villain of a crossover event, so.... maybe some edges not quite sanded all the way off? :p
 
Re: The Book of Gamora (II) (Design)

The class is a bit of a sticking point - Destroyer doesn't feel super appropriate for the era of Gamora that's represented by the mini (Marvel NOW! era GOTG). At that point, she's firmly heroic and had a lot of her edges sanded off, and destruction isn't really her bag any more, nor is she really likely to hang out with Thanos or anything. Not sure how married we are to it, or what parts are worth shuffling around.

I haven't actually read that run, but I gather that she does end up as the villain of a crossover event, so.... maybe some edges not quite sanded all the way off? :p

That's probably Marvel Legacy, not Marvel NOW! (no, not that NOW! from 2016, the one from 2012, these weird yearly reboots aren't confusing at all), which does end with Gamora going off the rails, becoming Requiem, dipping into cosmic conquest and kind of remaking the universe. Could definitely qualify as a Destroyer but she'd look like this:

nF3LpWo.jpg


We've got the Bendis written Gamora here who doesn't really do anything other than boink Tony Stark and hang out with Angela on the regular. Defender is more apt than Destroyer. Her one real plot beat is absorbing the power of the Black Vortex, going a little crazy with it, and deciding to hunt down Thanos... but when she gets that powerup she reverts to her old hood-and-cleavage look. Even among Bendis era outfits the white power armor is really brief, actually. It's only around for a year or two before she switches to movie-style leather.
 
Re: The Book of Gamora (II) (Design)

The Duggan run started during All-New NOW! or one of those, didn't it? I was thinking it predated Legacy.

In any case, I wasn't really shooting for 'Bendis Gamora' as much as 'post-MCU Gamora'.

I'm not married to Destroyer, but she is a bit tricky to accurately class while steering clear of the other Guardians, and a lot of ideas were thrown around and didn't quite stick. Also, now that I'm going back over that conversation.... you're the one that suggested Destroyer, you weirdo. :p
 
Re: The Book of Gamora (II) (Design)

Interesting, she has a lot of combat options here. Should be awfully strong in hand-to-hand.
 
Re: The Book of Gamora (II) (Design)

Yeah, I wasn't thinking at the time about the actual implications of her being a Destroyer and a GOTG Gamora at once. :p I guess that's sort of the hangup here - old Gamora is morally dubious, modern Gamora is basically good, and it's weird to have one of our "generic evil" classes put onto the modern incarnation. It's justifiable, but it's a squint.
 
Re: The Book of Gamora (II) (Design)

Honestly, I don't think we need to marry ourselves to a specific era here - I doubt we're going to get a Thanos-era Gamora any time soon, so let her be drafted into that group.


Honestly, I'd kind of be tempted to split the difference with her personality and make the theme even more clear - make her a Repentant Destroyer. Gives her synergy with Thanos's group once we've sorted that out, allows her to fit really neatly into Guardians builds (especially since Repentant is less common than Disciplined, which is nice for Mantis), and makes it clear she's a hero despite having a villainous class. Also gives her some odd synergy with Songbird, but wouldn't be the first time a little wonky synergy's happened, it's part of the joy of the game. Only thing she might miss out on down the line is synergy with my present draft for Miyamoto Usagi when I get to him, which I don' think anyone was even thinking about anyway. :) (Plus, you couldn't take her with the Sacred Band in Mixed games, but we don't talk about that around here...)
 
Re: The Book of Gamora (II) (Design)

Power set looks good overall. I'm digging the Trained to Perfection reuse.

For Backstab, I think you should probably use the "chosen figure" language instead of "that figure" for clarity.

I do think the title of that one is a bit odd, as "Backstab" evokes betrayal, but I'm not seeing how the mechanics represent any betrayal. It's not like Sir Hawthorne's similarly named "Stab in the Back" where he potentially changes themes. It seems more like a sneak attack where you think one figure is going to move, but instead she sidles up alongside the foe and assassinates them.
 
Re: The Book of Gamora (II) (Design)

I do think the title of that one is a bit odd, as "Backstab" evokes betrayal, but I'm not seeing how the mechanics represent any betrayal. It's not like Sir Hawthorne's similarly named "Stab in the Back" where he potentially changes themes. It seems more like a sneak attack where you think one figure is going to move, but instead she sidles up alongside the foe and assassinates them.

When I read the power, I think it's more a literal thing than the metaphorical stabbing in the back.
 
Re: The Book of Gamora (II) (Design)

Sure, but I think it's impossible to expect the user to disassociate themselves from the figurative meaning of "back stabbing" someone.
 
Re: The Book of Gamora (II) (Design)

Yeah, I wasn't thinking at the time about the actual implications of her being a Destroyer and a GOTG Gamora at once. :p I guess that's sort of the hangup here - old Gamora is morally dubious, modern Gamora is basically good, and it's weird to have one of our "generic evil" classes put onto the modern incarnation. It's justifiable, but it's a squint.

Yeah, I don't feel all that differently. But it's the first thing that feels justifiable to me at all, so I ran with it.

Still open to alternate ideas if you got em.

Honestly, I'd kind of be tempted to split the difference with her personality and make the theme even more clear - make her a Repentant Destroyer. Gives her synergy with Thanos's group once we've sorted that out, allows her to fit really neatly into Guardians builds (especially since Repentant is less common than Disciplined, which is nice for Mantis), and makes it clear she's a hero despite having a villainous class.

Y'know, I actually like that a lot.

Power set looks good overall. I'm digging the Trained to Perfection reuse.

For Backstab, I think you should probably use the "chosen figure" language instead of "that figure" for clarity.

I do think the title of that one is a bit odd, as "Backstab" evokes betrayal, but I'm not seeing how the mechanics represent any betrayal. It's not like Sir Hawthorne's similarly named "Stab in the Back" where he potentially changes themes. It seems more like a sneak attack where you think one figure is going to move, but instead she sidles up alongside the foe and assassinates them.

We could definitely switch to a more 'assassination' or 'flanking' themed name.
 
Re: The Book of Gamora (II) (Design)

Yeah, I think something like that would connect to the mechanics better.
 
Re: The Book of Gamora (II) (Design)

Stealth Strike? Sneaking Strike? Sudden Assault?
 
Re: The Book of Gamora (II) (Design)

Flanking could work. It definitely fits with the mechanics. I was trying to carry on the "sneaky" aspect of the Back Stab somehow, but don't love anything I came up with. I do think the "doing it on someone else's Order Marker" imbues a sneakiness to the mechanics, but Flanking Strike sounds better than any suggestions I've had so far.
I'll let you know if I think of any more ideas! :)

Edit: Opportunistic Strike? Taking advantage of opportunity seems to be what the power's all about more than anything.
 
Re: The Book of Gamora (II) (Design)

Good call on the Repentant idea Lazy.

I know everyone comes from a different background here, but in the D&D world, 'backstab' is a combat power that rouge types have that literately means to stab someone in the back with knife (x3 damage!). The physical act is also where the figurative phase 'stabbed in the back' comes from, so I don't see the issue here myself, but I'm also not all that hung up on the power name. It's not a word that is iconic for her or anything so whatever you find that matches the theme that you like is okay with me. I'd maybe go with the Flank Attack concept over the Sneak Attack one though.
 
Re: The Book of Gamora (II) (Design)

Yeah, I think I'm on the same page as you, YK, but I get why some people would want to steer clear of the metaphorical connotations.

SP updated to swap out the personality and first power name.
 
Re: The Book of Gamora (II) (Design)

Doing a quick take on her on the calculator, base stats are 200 points, if I rate powers all at 3, she's 290, if I rate them all at 4, she's 350, so I'd maybe split the difference and try her around 320 to start.

Looks good. Here's my pre-yea for the initial.
 
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