The Book of Cybermen

[Karat]

Re: The Book of Cybermen (VOTE for Initial)

Yea, we can always limit the number of OMs that can be removed if it proves too strong.

 

[MrNobody]

Re: The Book of Cybermen (VOTE for Initial)

COMPETITIVE REVIEW BOARD CHECKLIST

Spoiler Alert!

1. Does the design disrupt opponent's Order Markers in a way that offers a net gain in turns taken with strong figures versus the turns your opponent can take with strong figures (Ozymandias, Joker (I), Meteorite)?
   OM removal, for sure.
   
2. Does the design offer auto-wounding that either doesn't require taking turns or is otherwise extremely efficient (War Machine, Jason Voorhees, Cosmic Cube)?
   No.
   
3. Does the design immobilize figures or prevent turn-taking (Blob, Spider-Girl, Diablo, Green Lantern Alan)?
   OM removal.
   
4. Does the design move opponent's figures in a way that's easy to pull off and can move figures multiple spaces in multiple directions (Graviton, Magneto, Vulture)?
   No.
   
5. Does the design allow for moving friendly figures without taking turns, or for moving 2+ friendly figures while still taking a turn (Martian Manhunter , Green Lantern John, Angel)?
   Just other Cybermen.
   
   [*]Does the figure allow for two figures, one of them being a wide range of possible figures, to both attack on a single Order Marker (Zombie, Robot, Iron Patriot, Ms. Marvel, Rocket [II], Martian Manhunter [II], Nebula, Baby Groot, Havok)?
   No.
   
   [*]Does the design offer any sort of passive boost outside of a narrow set of figures (Star-Lord, Sage, Brainiac 5, Captain America, Batman [III])?
   No.
   
   [*]Does the design help keep your allies alive just by being nearby (Daring Decoy, Aaron Cash, Jocasta, Weather Wizard)?
   No.
   
   [*]Is it OK for the design to have defensive abilities that could make it essentially unkillable in some matchups or endgame situations (Cosmic Cube, Healing Factor, Master Martial Artist)?
   N/A.
   
   [*]If the figure has auto-destroy powers or powers that can force the opponent's figures to attack each other, are they balanced for strong opposing figures and/or boosts that can make the powers more reliable (Puppet Master, Psycho-Man, Enchantress)?
   N/A.
   
   [*]Is the figure likely to earn its value many times over by either running out alone at the start of a battle (pre-eval Crow, Solomon Grundy) or by sitting in the startzone until the end of a battle (Arnim Zola, Silk Spectre)?
   No.
   
   [*]Will synergies in the design create concerns for future designs (Mad Thinker, pre-eval Enchantress, Star-Lord)?
   No.
   
   [*]Does the design combo particularly well with one of the design concerns above (Magma)?
   No.
   

CONSISTENCY CHECKLIST (SHORT FORM)

Spoiler Alert!

Consistency Concerns
Name and Identity
Verify character is named in a way that is clear, accurate and feels consistent with the way other characters are named.
Check.

Uniqueness and Type
Verify that the power text reflects the listed uniqueness and type, that the uniqueness fits the character, and that squad size is listed for squads.
Check.

Left Box
If the character's species, class or personality is reused, verify that the character feels thematically consistent with other figures that have that species, class or personality. If they are not reused, verify that there is no pre-existing species, class or personality that would make more sense.
Check.

Size and Height
Verify that the listed size and height are accurate. Standing the mini up next to a stack of tiles, and a few other minis of various sizes, is encouraged.
Check.

Super Strength and Flying
Verify that these special powers are present if they make sense, and not if they don't.
Check.

New Powers - Names
Verify that any new powers are not using power names identical to, or very similar to, pre-existing powers. Verify that any new powers are actually new and not old powers with new names.
Check.

New Powers - Effects
Verify that the effect and timing of all new powers is clear. Verify that any logical immunities, benefits, or weaknesses (whether those be necessary for thematic or mechanical reasons) are implemented: consider whether defensive powers that work against normal attacks should also work against special attacks, whether or not a power has an elemental component that some figures should resist, and whether or not unliving figures (such as Undead and Androids) should be affected.
Check.

Reused Powers
Verify that the design is reusing powers in place of creating new ones, where reused powers could implement the same theme and mechanics with no differences or only trivial differences. Verify that any reused powers have the correct text.
Check.

Power Level
Verify that the character's movement, attack, range, and defense (in conjunction with any special powers that enhance those stats) feel consistent with the capabilities of characters with analogous powers and abilities. Verify that the character falls into a similar point range to characters with comparative powers and abilities.
Check.

Any idea for a cost, BTW? Calculator doesn't really do squads very well. Thematically, under the Daleks would be nice. But I know the OM removal is going to come at a hefty cost.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: The Book of Cybermen (VOTE for Initial)

I'm getting about 120 on the calculator. As always, wouldn't mind seeing the checklists.

yea

 

[MrNobody]

Re: The Book of Cybermen (VOTE for Initial)

I'm getting about 120 on the calculator. As always, wouldn't mind seeing the checklists.

yea

 

[Karat]

Re: The Book of Cybermen (VOTE for Initial)

I'm getting about 120 on the calculator. As always, wouldn't mind seeing the checklists.

yea

I'm getting closer to 140.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: The Book of Cybermen (VOTE for Initial)

Yeah, 140 if you all value the OM removal power a bit higher than I did. With only an attack of 3 on it I'm not that worried about it personally.

 

[Karat]

Re: The Book of Cybermen (VOTE for Initial)

Power is probably a 3 in general, but with an attack of 3, a 2 is probably reasonable in this case.

 

[MrNobody]

Re: The Book of Cybermen (VOTE for Initial)

I’ll probably start at 140 with the expectation of possibly trending downwards.

 

[Tornado]

Re: The Book of Cybermen (VOTE for Initial)

Yea

 

[johnny139]

Re: The Book of Cybermen (VOTE for Initial)

Yea

Might go with something a bit more generic for the third power, in case we do need to reuse it. "LEGION 3" or something, with the 3 changing based on how many you can attack with, in case of common heroes or what have you.

 

[MrNobody]

Re: The Book of Cybermen (VOTE for Initial)

Yea

Might go with something a bit more generic for the third power, in case we do need to reuse it. "LEGION 3" or something, with the 3 changing based on how many you can attack with, in case of common heroes or what have you.

Honestly, at that point, I'd probably just edit the power itself to make it more Cyber-specific. Cyber Legion is an in-universe term for a regiment of Cybermen, I think it loses a lot of the theme to just call it Legion.

Anybody else have an opinion either way?

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: The Book of Cybermen (VOTE for Initial)

You could do something like this that's very light touch:

CYBER LEGION
When attacking with the Cybermen, if all of your Order Markers are on the Army Cards of Cyborgs, you may attack with any 3 Cybermen you control, even Cybermen that did not move this turn.

 

[Karat]

Re: The Book of Cybermen (VOTE for Initial)

Or just make it a synergy piece.

CYBER LEGION
Before attacking with a Cyborg you control, if all of your Order Markers are on the Army Cards of Cyborgs, you may attack with any 3 Cybermen you control.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: The Book of Cybermen (VOTE for Initial)

I'd at least make it instead. Not sure I love the idea of wanting to run Cyborg with these guys all the time.

 

[Karat]

Re: The Book of Cybermen (VOTE for Initial)

Before is more Legion like

 

[MrNobody]

Re: The Book of Cybermen (VOTE for Initial)

Yeah I'm strongly against them being a general Cyborg synergy piece, and I don't to lean too heavily into them being an Emotionless Cyborg synergy piece when we don't have any other Cybers yet.

If we were to change it, I'd be leaning towards something like this;

CYBER LEGION
Instead of attacking with the Cybermen, you may attack with any 3 Common Emotionless Cyborgs you control.

Basically the same power for now, but can lead to future expansion with Cybermats, etc. Not really worried about there being an issue where it gets too powerful later, simply cause any Cyberdude more powerful than these guys would probably be Uncommon or Unique.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: The Book of Cybermen (VOTE for Initial)

Or have emotions.

 

[Lord Pyre]

Re: The Book of Cybermen (VOTE for Initial)

I like the changes

 

[MrNobody]

Re: The Book of Cybermen (VOTE for Initial)

I like the changes

Enough for a Yea?

 

[tcglkn]

Re: The Book of Cybermen (VOTE for Initial)

Yea, missed this was in voting.

 

[MrNobody]

Re: The Book of Cybermen (Initial Playtesting)

Thanks! This definitely had some mid-initial chatter. I’m going to update the SP with the Cyber Legion update I suggested a few posts up.

This passes.

 

[Lord Pyre]

Re: The Book of Cybermen (VOTE for Initial)

I like the changes

Enough for a Yea?

Nah

 

[MrNobody]

Re: The Book of Cybermen (Initial Playtesting)

So I'm 3 games in here. For the third game, I bumped their attack up to 4, which I think they really need as a squad without bonding option. But that also made Electro-Touch a bit stronger than I feel comfortable with. So I think I'm going to move over to more of an Iceman-esque approach.

ELECTRO-TOUCH 16
If a Cybermen figure you control would inflict one or more wounds on an adjacent figure without the Electrically Charged special power with its normal attack, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 16 or higher, you may remove one unrevealed Order Marker at random from that Unique Hero's Army Card.

It has a higher potential ceiling, since you can both deal wounds and remove OMs in the same attack, but the randomness will make it less reliable, and I think that'll help a lot.

 

[Ronin]

Re: The Book of Cybermen (Initial Playtesting)

Seems reasonable.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: The Book of Cybermen (Initial Playtesting)