The Book of C3G Destructible Object Rules

[Ronin]

The Book of C3G Destructible Object Rules

C3G SUPER SECRET EXCLUSIVE 72
START YOUR ENGINES!

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This set of rules is necessary to fully enjoy C3G Destructible Objects. It is designed to enhance your superhero battles by allowing figures to ride designated Vehicle Destructible Objects around the battlefield, and allow you to draft them alongside your favorite heroes!
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_________________________________________________________________

-Rulings and Clarifications-

• N/A

_________________________________________________________________
-Heroscapers Community Contributions-

• Previous Vehicle Rules and their development
• Playtest Reports (Previous Version):
• Sports Car (Initial): Ronin
• Public Test 1: IAmBatman
• Public Test 2: LordVenoc
• Public Test 3: MrNobody
• Playtest Reports (Updated Version) (Sports Car at 4 Life, 3 Defense, 100 points):
• Initial: (Tornado)
• Public Test 1: (IAmBatman)
• Public Test 2: (Arch-vile)
• Rulebook layout by japes, remade by tcglkn for the update

Rules Updates:
2 April 2021 - Total overhaul to encompass all DO rules.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

DESTRUCTIBLE OBJECT RULES

Spoiler Alert!

Destructible Object Army Cards ( DOs ) and their associated models represent inanimate objects that can be interacted with to a greater degree than Obstacles or Terrain.

DOs are considered figures like Heroes and Squads are and can be attacked, chosen for special powers, receive wounds, be destroyed, etc. in the same way as other figures except when stated otherwise.

All DOs have the following characteristics on their card that function the same as on a Hero or Squad Army Card:
• Publisher Logo
• Name
• Life Number
• Defense Number
• Height Number
• Hit Zone
• special power text area

However, all DOs also have the following special rules:

Spoiler Alert!

CONTROL
A DO may be in a player's army or under their control, but by default are not in any player's army or under any player's control unless another rule or special power causes them to be. A DO not under a player's control is not considered a friendly or enemy figure by any other figure.

ORDER MARKERS AND TURNS
A DO cannot have Order Markers placed on its card, even if that DO is in a player's army or under their control, and cannot take turns.

ENGAGEMENT
A DO is never considered engaged to another figure, even if that DO is in a player's army or under their control.

HIT ZONES
All DOs have Hit Zones that are used to determine if other figures have clear sight on the DO. However, not all DOs have Target Points (represented by green areas on a Hit Zone). Those that do may use them to determine clear sight on other figures. DOs without Target Points never have clear sight on other figures.

DEFENDING
If a DO is not in any player's army, any player other than the attacking player can roll defense for the Destructible Object. Defense dice for a DO in a player's army should be rolled by that player. DOs may receive extra defense dice from Height Advantage or other effects. Like other figures, when defending with a DO all defense dice available to be rolled must be rolled.

DESTRUCTION
DOs may be destroyed by receiving wounds, or when otherwise called for, like other figures. When a DO is destroyed, you may still remove it even if it is attached to a piece of terrain or an obstacle.

In addition, some DOs have other rules depending on the presence (or lack of presence) of other characteristics on their cards:

SIZE

Spoiler Alert!

DOs with a listed size (Tiny, Small, Medium, Large, or Huge) are affected by special powers and other rules the same as other figures of that size.

A DO without a listed size has certain special rules:
• They cannot be moved except to be removed from the battlefield when destroyed or when a special power calls for that DO to be moved by name.
• They cannot have their size or height changed (such as by the Shrinking Ray Gun Glyph).

POINT COSTS AND UNIQUENESS: DRAFTING DESTRUCTIBLE OBJECTS

Spoiler Alert!

A DO without a point cost cannot be drafted into a player's army, but can appear in a game due to a map, scenario, or special power.

DOs with point costs and uniqueness ( Common, Uncommon, Unique, or Event ) may be drafted into Armies as Heroes can, following the same drafting restrictions as Heroes of the same uniqueness unless the scenario rules for a game mention DOs specifically.

Drafted DOs have their associated sculpt placed on the battlefield following the same scenario rules for that game as Heroes of their uniqueness unless the scenario rules for a game mention DOs specifically. When placing DOs you have drafted, you may also place any figures in your army on the card of that DO as occupants, assuming they can legally be placed in that DO.

A DO drafted by a player is included in a player's army, but is not automatically considered under their control and does not count towards the standard victory condition (if you only have DOs left, you will lose the game).

OCCUPYING DESTRUCTIBLE OBJECTS

Spoiler Alert!

Some DOs allow for other figures to occupy their exterior or interior. A DO is considered occupied if there are any figures occupying either its exterior or interior.

OCCUPYING DESTRUCTIBLE OBJECT EXTERIORS
Some DOs (such as the Warehouse Ruin) have spaces you can stand on top of on the battlefield. A figure standing on top of a DO on the battlefield is considered to be occupying its exterior. While a DO's exterior is occupied it cannot be moved by any special power not on its Army Card.

OCCUPYING DESTRUCTIBLE OBJECT INTERIORS
DOs with an Occupancy number on their card allow other figures to occupy the interior of that DO. Figures must enter a DO to occupy its interior:

ENTERING DESTRUCTIBLE OBJECTS
A figure that is not a DO may enter a DO with an Occupancy number by ending its movement on a space adjacent to that DO if:

• That figure’s size is smaller than that of the DO. The different sizes are ordered from smallest to largest as follows: tiny, small, medium, large, and huge.
• The current number of figures occupying the interior of that DO is less than the Occupancy number of that DO.

Some DOs may have specific entrances/exits marked on the figure itself and the figure's Army Card. In this case the DO can only be entered or exited from empty spaces within one space of that DO and in the direction that the entrance/exit is directly facing. If a DO with an occupied interior would be moved, any figures occupying its interior stay in that DO and are moved with it. If any of figures occupying a DO's interior cannot be moved for any reason, that DO cannot be moved

When a figure enters a DO, it is removed from the battlefield and placed on that DOs card. Leaving engagement attacks still apply as normal when entering DOs.

Figures occupying the interior of a DO are still considered to be on the battlefield, controlled by the player whose army they are in, and occupying the same space (or spaces) as that DO for the purpose of counting spaces for range and power selection but not for the effects of any special terrain rules for that space.

Figures occupying the interior of a DO are considered adjacent to all other figures occupying that DO and to the DO itself, but are never considered adjacent to or engaged with figures outside of the DO. Figures occupying the interior of a DO are considered to have clear sight on that DO and all other figures occupying that DO's interior. A DO is considered to have clear sight on figures that occupy its interior as long as it has a Target Point.

If a special power that is not an attack targets or chooses a space instead of a figure and a space a DO occupies is chosen, that DO and all figures occupying the DO are affected. If a special power allows you to move or place a figure you do not control that is occupying the interior of a DO, you cannot move that figure onto a space outside that DO unless that special power specifies that it causes figures to exit DOs.

While a figure you control is the only figure occupying the interior of a DO, that DO is in your army and under your control.

COVER

A DO with an Occupancy number will also either have either Full Cover or Partial Cover as denoted on its card. The type of cover determines which figures will have clear sight on figures inside the DO and if figures inside the DO can be attacked or attack figures outside the DO.

FULL COVER

Figures occupying the interior of a DO with Full Cover are never considered in clear sight of non-friendly figures outside of that DO, are never considered to have clear sight on non-friendly figures outside of that DO, and may never attack or be attacked by a figure outside of that DO (this includes both targeting attacks, and affecting additional figures such as with an explosion style special attack).

Figures occupying the interior of a DO with Full Cover are considered in clear sight of friendly figures outside of that DO that have clear sight on that DO. If a DO with Full Cover has clear sight on a figure, figures friendly to that figure in the interior of that DO are considered to have clear sight on that figure.

PARTIAL COVER

DOs with Partial Cover allow for clear sight between friendly figures the same way as Full Cover DOs with the addition of also allowing for clear sight between non-friendly figures.

Figures occupying the interior of a DO with Partial Cover can attack and be attacked by figures outside that DO. When a figure occupying the interior of a Partial Cover DO targets a figure outside of that DO, they should use one of that DO's Target Points to trace line of sight and range (Partial Cover DOs always have target points). When a figure outside of a Partial Cover DO wishes to target a figure occupying the interior of that DO, they use the hit zone of that DO as the hit zone for that figure.

EXITING DESTRUCTIBLE OBJECTS

After moving a DO you control on your turn or instead of moving a figure occupying the interior of a DO, you may exit with any or all of your figures that occupy the interior of that DO.

To exit with a figure that is occupying a DO, place it on an empty space adjacent to the DO (adjacent to the DO's entrance/exit area if it has one). If an exiting figure was engaged with any other figures occupying the DO prior to exiting the DO, it will take any leaving engagement attacks.

DESTROYING OCCUPIED DESTRUCTIBLE OBJECTS

If a DO is destroyed, each figure occupying that DO immediately receives X Wounds where X = any excess wounds the DO received beyond what was needed to destroy it.

After removing the destroyed DO from the battlefield, players may, in initiative order, place all of their figures that occupied the exterior of that DO on spaces previously occupied by the destroyed DO.

Then players may, in initiative order, place all of their figures that occupied the interior of that DO on spaces previously occupied by the destroyed DO. Figures moved when the DO is destroyed never take any leaving engagement attacks, but will receive any falling damage that may apply.

If a figure that was occupying a destroyed DO cannot be placed on a legal space or spaces, that figure is immediately removed from the game.

VEHICLES

Spoiler Alert!

Vehicle Destructible Objects ( VDOs ) are a special type of DO that occupying figures can have greater control over. VDOs always have an Occupancy number and Cover type and in addition will specific Operator spaces.

OPERATOR SPACES

VDOs have special designated Operator spaces that are connected to moving, attacking, or using the special powers of that VDO. All VDOs have a Driver space, and may have other Operator spaces as well. Operator spaces can only be occupied by one figure at a time, and only Unique Heroes may occupy Operator spaces. While a Driver space is occupied by a Unique Hero, that Hero is that VDO's Driver, a Unique Hero on a Gunner space is that VDO's Gunner, and so on.

A VDO with an Occupancy of 1 does not have a Driver space represented on its card as only one figure may occupy it and there for is in the Driver's space by default. As there are no other spaces, single Occupancy VDOs cannot be occupied by figures that are not Unique Heroes.

A VDO with an Occupancy greater than 1 has the Driver space represented by a steering wheel on its Card. A figure in the Driver space should be placed there. Any special Operator spaces will also be designated. If a VDO has greater Occupancy number than the number of Operator spaces it has, it has a passenger area representing the remaining occupancy. Figures that are not Unique Heroes may occupy the passenger area.

If a figure you control is occupying a VDO's Driver space, that VDO is in your army and under your control even if other players' figures occupy the interior of that VDO.

Instead of moving normally, a Unique Hero occupying the interior of a VDO may move into one of that VDO's unoccupied Operator spaces, or out of an Operator space to the passenger area of the card. When a Unique Hero first enters a VDO, they may choose to enter into any of that VDO's unoccupied Operator Spaces.

MOVING VEHICLES WITH THE DRIVER

VDO's may have a Move value listed on their card. Instead of moving normally with a VDO's Driver, if that VDO has a Move number, you may move that VDO any number of spaces up to its Move number.

ATTACKING WITH VEHICLES

VDOs may have Range and Attack values listed on their card and may include Special Attacks on their card. A VDO's Normal Attack and Special Attacks are connected to that VDO's Driver space unless a special power otherwise connects them to another Operator space. Instead of attacking with the appropriate Operator, you may attack with a VDO's Normal or Special Attack connected with that Operator's space.

An attacking VDO draws line of sight, compares height advantage, etc. as a Hero or Squad figure would. Remember: a VDO attacking is not the same as an Operator attacking, for example, an Operator with the Deadly Shot special power will not double the Skulls in a VDO's attack roll.

 

[Ronin]

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

Original OP:

Spoiler Alert!

Alright, picking up some recent discussion from the Outer Sanctum Discussion and Index thread, since I don't want the subject to get totally dropped.

The goal of this thread is to host discussion on how to implement draftable vehicles. As I see it, this is gonna be a four-step process:

1. Develop additional rules text for Vehicle DO rules to support drafting vehicles into an army
2. Test Sports Car and Mole Machine to determine appropriate costs and make sure no issues arise with the new rules
3. Update rules text with new rules and vehicle cards with point costs
4. Design awesome new vehicles and vehicle-centric figures to celebrate

I figure this can be a general 'Vehicle Brainstorming Thread' once we've got the system in place. (EDIT: Actually, I see there's an old one of those - don't mind having a fresh, dedicated thread for getting them draftable though)

Current Rules Under Test:
-Link here
-Potential future revisions include:
--Refinement/correction of phrases like 'you control' (no mechanical impact on rules under test, just standardization of wording)
--Implementation tweaked to support draftable DOs that aren't vehicles. Likely written up as a separate Draftable DO Optional Rule and a briefer acknowledgement of that ruleset in the Vehicle Rules. (no mechanical impact on rules under test)
--Increased damage for figures in wounded/destroyed vehicles, if testing proves it necessary. (mechanical impact on rules under test)

----------------------


Good thought!

The Book of Vehicle Optional Rules

Current Version Being Tested

Spoiler Alert!

Changes proposed for the Destructible Objects – Vehicles rules/Rules proposed for Enclosed Structures:

(Changes in bold)

Changes to Vehicle Destructible Objects Rules:

Page 2:

These C3G Vehicle Rules cover the following areas: •Drafting Vehicles

• Entering Vehicles

• Occupying Vehicles

•Partial and Full Cover

• Moving Vehicles

• Exiting Vehicles

• Destroying Vehicles

EXAMPLE 1: Vehicle Card Like the Official Destructible Objects cards, the Vehicle Destructible Objects cards that are affected by this rule set have a similar appearance but with a few inclusions.

Uniqueness: Whether a Vehicle is Unique or Common.

Occupancy: The number value indicates the number of figures that can occupy the Vehicle.

Size/Height: The Size and Height indicate the Vehicle’s actual size and height as per the standard Heroscape game mechanics, but also by their inclusion symbolize that this Destructible Object is compatible with the throwing rules from the C3G Destructible Objects rule set.

Partial Cover/Full Cover: This indicates whether a Vehicle offers Partial Cover or Full Cover for occupying figures.

Move: Because these Destructible Objects are Vehicles, a Move value is included to allow their movement across the battlefield as described in the standard Heroscape rules.

ENTERING VEHICLES

A figure may enter a Vehicle by ending its movement on a space adjacent to the Vehicle if it meets the following criteria:

• Your figure’s size must be smaller than that of the Vehicle. Refer to Example 1 to identify the Vehicle’s size on its Army Card. NOTE - The size of a figure is located on the left hand side of its Army Card next to its height. The different sizes are ordered from smallest to largest as follows: Tiny, Small, Medium, Large, and Huge.


• The current occupancy of the Vehicle must be less than the Occupancy number of the Vehicle. The occupancy designation on a Vehicle Army Card shows the number of figures that may occupy a Vehicle. A figure can only enter a Vehicle if that Vehicle has fewer figures on its Army Card than its Occupancy number (example: If a car has an Occupancy number of 2, but only has 1 figure placed on its Army Card, a 2nd figure can enter that car).

• There are enough empty spaces to legally place that figure in the Vehicle.


• Some Vehicles may have specific entrances/exits marked on the figure itself. In this case the Vehicle can only be entered or exited from empty spaces within one space in the direction that the entrance/exit is directly facing.

Figures entering Vehicles do not receive any passing swipes from enemy figures occupying that Vehicle. Once a figure Enters a Vehicle, it should be placed on any empty space or spaces on that Vehicle’s Army Card.


DRAFTING VEHICLES


Vehicle Destructible Objects (VDOs) act like figure Army Cards in that they have an associated point cost listed on them. VDOs are drafted the same way as Army Cards. There is no limit (except point cost!) to the number of different VDOs you can draft, and you can draft any number of the same Uncommon VDOs (indicated in the leftbox). However, like figure Army Cards, each player cannot draft more than one of the same Unique VDO Army Card (indicated in the leftbox).
Like Army Cards, VDOs each have an associated figure that is placed in the controlling player's start zone at the start of the game and are considered in that player's Army. However, a VDO is not considered under a player's control unless that player has one or more figures occupying that VDO (see more below).





Page 3:

OCCUPYING VEHICLES

Figures occupying a Vehicle are still considered on the battlefield, controlled by the Player whose Army they are in, occupying the same space or spaces as that Vehicle for the purpose of counting spaces for range and power selection, but are not affected by any special terrain rules for that space.


Figures inside a Vehicle that is Large or smaller are considered adjacent to each other and the Vehicle itself, but are never considered adjacent to or engaged with figures outside of the Vehicle.


If enemy figures occupy the same Large or smaller Vehicle, they are considered engaged.


Any time a Player could move a figure that is occupying a Large or smaller Vehicle one space or more, they may choose to move that figure to any other empty space inside that Vehicle. Since all spaces inside a Vehicle of this size are considered to be within one space of each other, figures moved this way will not take leaving engagement attacks.


Each Vehicle has a designated space for the Driver. If a figure you control is the only figure occupying a Vehicle or if a figure you control is occupying the designated Driver space in a Vehicle, you now control that Vehicle.

A figure occupying a Vehicle may still have Order Markers placed and revealed on its Army Card. However, Order Markers cannot be placed on the Vehicle’s Army Card.


PARTIAL COVER AND FULL COVER


As denoted in the left box of each Vehicle, Vehicles can be Partial Cover or Full Cover.

Figures occupying Vehicles with Full Cover are never in clear sight of figures outside of that Vehicle and never have clear sight on figures outside of that Vehicle.

Vehicles with Partial Cover do allow for clear sight between figures occupying that Vehicle and figures on the outside. Partial Cover Vehicles are those with windows or other openings that allow for clear sight. These clear sight openings will be marked on Army Cards by the green target points on the Vehicle’s Hit Zone. Clear sight can only be traced through these target points.

When a figure occupying a Partial Cover Vehicle targets a figure outside of that Vehicle, they should use the target point for that Vehicle to trace line of sight and range. When a figure outside of a Partial Cover Vehicle targets a figure occupying that Vehicle, they should use the target points for that Vehicle as the hit zone for any occupying figure.

Unless a special power indicates otherwise, a figure can only target one figure occupying a Vehicle at a time. If, however, a special power targets or chooses a space and the space the Vehicle occupies is chosen, the Vehicle and all figures occupying the Vehicle are affected.¬




MOVING VEHICLES

In addition to the Size, Life, and Defense values contained on destructible object cards, Vehicles have a Movement value.

Instead of moving normally with an Army Card you control, if one of the figures from that card occupies the Driver space for a Vehicle, you may move that Vehicle. You may only move each Vehicle this way once during each player turn.

When moving the Vehicle, follow standard movement rules, with one exception: Vehicles and occupying figures do not make or receive leaving engagement attacks against figures outside of the Vehicle.


If a Vehicle would be moved, any figures occupying it stay in that Vehicle and are moved with it. If any of the occupants cannot be moved for any reason, that Vehicle cannot be moved.



EXITING VEHICLES

After moving a Vehicle you control, you may place a figure you control from the Vehicle’s Army Card on an empty space adjacent to the Vehicle. You may exit with any or all of your figures on the same turn. If that figure was engaged with any other figures occupying the Vehicle prior to moving, it will take any leaving engagement attacks. The figure that moved the Vehicle may now complete its turn. Remember, the figure that moved the Vehicle did so at the expense of its normal movement.

If you wish to have one of your figures exit a Vehicle you do not control, you may have that figure Exit instead of moving normally on its turn. If that figure does not have the Super Strength special power, before exiting with that figure, roll one unblockable attack die against it. When your figure exits a Vehicle, place that figure on any empty space adjacent to the Vehicle.


DESTROYING VEHICLES

If a Vehicle receives enough wounds to be destroyed, each figure on top of the Vehicle or occupying the Vehicle immediately receives X Wounds where X = any excess wounds the Vehicle received beyond what was needed to destroy it. After removing the destroyed Vehicle from the battlefield, players may, in initiative order, place all of their figures that remain on top of the Vehicle on spaces previously occupied by the destroyed Vehicle. Figures moved when the structure is destroyed never take any leaving engagement attacks but will receive any falling damage that may apply.

Then players may, in initiative order, place each remaining figure they control that was occupying the Vehicle on a space or spaces previously occupied by the destroyed Vehicle. If a figure that was occupying a destroyed structure cannot be placed on a legal space or spaces, that figure is immediately destroyed.

Past Version

Spoiler Alert!

Legacy Text:

C3G VEHICLE RULES

DESTRUCTIBLE OBJECTS - VEHICLES
Destructible objects are an official inclusion in the game, as seen with the Fortress Door and the Destructible Wall. C3G rules for destructible objects were established in the C3G Destructible Objects Rules. Vehicles are a type of destructible object that follow all of the rules of other destructible objects, but include a few specific to vehicles.

These C3G Vehicle Rules cover the following areas:

- Entering Vehicles
- Occupying Vehicles
- Moving Vehicles
- Exiting Vehicles
- Destroying Vehicles

EXAMPLE 1: VEHICLE CARD
(Sample Card here)
A vehicle has three designations in the left box of its Army Card: size, height, and occupancy. The size and height designations (such as Medium 5) are the same as those found on other figures' Army Cards.

ENTERING VEHICLES
A figure may enter a vehicle by ending its movement on a space adjacent to the vehicle if it meets the following criteria:

• Your figure's size must be smaller than that of the vehicle. Refer to Example 1 to identify the vehicle's size on its Army Card. NOTE - The size of a figure is located on the left hand side of its Army Card next to its height. The different sizes are ordered from smallest to largest as follows: Tiny, Small, Medium, Large, and Huge.
• The current occupancy of the vehicle must be less than the occupancy number of the vehicle. The occupancy designation on a vehicle Army Card shows the number of figures that may occupy a vehicle. A figure can only enter a vehicle if that vehicle has fewer figures on its Army Card than its occupancy number (example: If a car has an occupancy number of 2, but only has 1 figure placed on its Army Card, a 2nd figure can enter that car).
• There are no figures controlled by other players occupying the vehicle currently. Refer to Occupying Vehicles for further details.

If a figure of the correct size ends its movement adjacent to a vehicle that has not reached its occupancy number, the figure can enter that vehicle.

When a figure enters a vehicle, normal leaving engagement rules apply. Place that figure on that vehicle's Army Card. The figure that entered the vehicle is now occupying that vehicle.

OCCUPYING VEHICLES
Figures occupying a vehicle are not on the battlefield.
A figure occupying a vehicle may still have Order Markers placed and revealed on its Army Card.
If one or more of your figures occupies a vehicle, you now control that vehicle. However, Order Markers cannot be placed on the vehicle's Army Card.
If a vehicle is ever suddenly occupied by figures of different players (e.g.: one of your figures is Mind Controlled by another player), the vehicle is destroyed (see: Destroying Vehicles).

MOVING VEHICLES
In addition to the Size, Life, and Defense values contained on destructible object cards, vehicles have a Movement value.
After revealing an Order Marker on one of your Army Cards, before taking a turn with a figure you control occupying a vehicle, you may move that vehicle. You may only move a vehicle once for each Order Marker you reveal.
When moving the vehicle, follow standard movement rules, with one exception: vehicles do not make or receive leaving engagement attacks.

EXITING VEHICLES
After moving a vehicle you control, you may place a figure from the vehicle's Army Card on an empty space and adjacent to the vehicle. You may exit with any or all of your figures on the same turn. Figures cannot move during a turn in which they exit a vehicle.

DESTROYING VEHICLES
If a vehicle receives enough damage to be destroyed, after removing it from the battlefield, place all figures that occupied the destroyed vehicle on spaces previously occupied by the destroyed vehicle. Roll one attack die. If you roll a skull, each figure that previously occupied the destroyed vehicle receives one wound. If a figure that was occupying a destroyed vehicle cannot be placed on a legal space or spaces, that figure is immediately destroyed.

Spoiler Alert!

That looks good. I can see putting a Hit and Run SA on my generic car's card.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

Honestly, I don't think we'll have to add much in the way of rules. Check this FAQ question from the OP of the Rules thread:

Q: The Vehicle Rules state that figures that occupy vehicles are no longer on the battlefield. Does that mean that the last figure in an Army can't use vehicles? After all, a player loses if he doesn't have any figures remaining on the battlefield.
A: Under Occupying Vehicles section, the rules state that "you now control that vehicle". This is VERY important to remember as you play the game with special powers that reference opponent's figures (DOs are treated as figures in C3G) and also designing powers. This section also answers your question, because even though your last figure got into a car, the car is now your DO/figure. So the game is not over.

Not a huge change between being in your army once occupied and starting in your army. It's just the whole enemy occupation thing that could get messy.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

Running questions as I read over the rulebook:

1. Leftbox: In current VDO cards we only have occupancy and size/height in the leftbox. If we make them draftable do we go full, typical leftbox including species, personality, etc.? And if so, where do we put the occupancy?

2. Stats: VDOs have Life, Move, and Defense values right now. If they become draftable, do we give them Attack and Range values? Or only ones that have actual weapons? Or do we just do those things as special attacks.

3. If a VDO is draftable, OMs can be placed and removed on them, right? Which means a VDO is now taking a turn. What does a VDO do on its turn? Can it move? Can it attack? Can it only do these things if occupied?

4. Entering the vehicle. Current VDO rules don't let you enter a vehicle with one or more figures controlled by another Player occupying that vehicle. Basically once that vehicle is occupied, it's under the control of the occupant. Would we continue with that and make it really easy, potentially, to lose control of a VDO you drafted, or would a VDO have to be mind controlled, etc., and actually change hands before a different player could occupy it?

I have some thoughts on all of these but want to hear from others first (spoiler: I favor as little change as possible, which means a bit of risk to drafting these, but I'm OK with that).

 

[Ronin]

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

I don't think making them draftable means we need to give them attack numbers or let you put OMs on them or anything - Spells don't work that way, for instance.

My personal preference would be that drafting a VDO meant you got to place it in your SZ at the start of the game and from that point, it behaved as normal for a VDO that started on the battlefield.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

Perfect. You didn't fall for my trap. I agree completely. At most I'd argue that once your placed the VDO in your start zone, its card became a temporary part of that start zone and you could place other figures there as part of the initial placement (up to its occupancy of course).

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

So for 1-3 keep things just the same. For 4, keep them the same because it's really not that big of a deal. You're only opening yourself up to occupancy switches (especially if we go with my start zone idea) if you choose to exit the vehicle. Otherwise only mind control and vehicle destruction can get that figure out of the vehicle.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

I think draftable VDOs will need two additions to their cards:

1. Point value
2. An indication of uniqueness. A VDO should be "common" or "unique" to indicate how many of that exact model you can draft in one Army. Maybe this isn't necessary, but a distinction between a standard Squad Car and the Batmobile seems reasonable to me here.

As for writing up the rules, I'd crib as much as possible and relevant from the nicely written drafting section of the Spell rules, copied here for workshopping (shout out: Yodaking):

Spoiler Alert!

Spell Cards, like Army Cards have an associated point cost listed on them. Spell Cards are drafted in the same way as Army Cards. There is no limit (except point cost!) to the number of different Spell Cards you can draft, and you can draft any number of the same Common Spell Card (indicated by the grey card border). However, like Army Cards, each player cannot draft more than one of the same Unique Spell Card (indicated by the purple card border).

Unlike Army Cards, Spell Cards do not have a figure that is placed on the battlefield. Instead, at the start of the game, place all of your drafted Spell Cards face-up next to your Army Cards. Note: you may never conceal any of your Spell Cards from other players.

Some Spell Cards may have additional limitations for drafting or casting listed on their cards, such as requiring specific Classes or Personalities on Army Cards in your Army.

 

[Yodaking]

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

If you are going to go down this route I could see a Tank or something similar one day getting created where it featured mounted weapons the operator could use instead of their normal attack. I actually found a 3-D printer file for a Cobra Fang and printed it out. I figured I would make it a draftable card with pilot already included, but you could also just make it without a pilot and then Baroness or someone would jump in and fly it around until shot down.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

That's definitely something that needs to happen and could be spelled out in a special attack on that VDO's card, IMO.

The other thing we may need to tackle that's going to be a lot lot harder is greater than 2 hex figure/vehicle movement.

 

[Ronin]

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

I think draftable VDOs will need two additions to their cards:

1. Point value
2. An indication of uniqueness. A VDO should be "common" or "unique" to indicate how many of that exact model you can draft in one Army. Maybe this isn't necessary, but a distinction between a standard Squad Car and the Batmobile seems reasonable to me here.

As for writing up the rules, I'd crib as much as possible and relevant from the nicely written drafting section of the Spell rules, copied here for workshopping (shout out: Yodaking):

Spoiler Alert!

Spell Cards, like Army Cards have an associated point cost listed on them. Spell Cards are drafted in the same way as Army Cards. There is no limit (except point cost!) to the number of different Spell Cards you can draft, and you can draft any number of the same Common Spell Card (indicated by the grey card border). However, like Army Cards, each player cannot draft more than one of the same Unique Spell Card (indicated by the purple card border).

Unlike Army Cards, Spell Cards do not have a figure that is placed on the battlefield. Instead, at the start of the game, place all of your drafted Spell Cards face-up next to your Army Cards. Note: you may never conceal any of your Spell Cards from other players.

Some Spell Cards may have additional limitations for drafting or casting listed on their cards, such as requiring specific Classes or Personalities on Army Cards in your Army.

Good point! I think we'll definitely want a Common/Uniqueness distinction.

Letting people start off in vehicles might be okay, but it might make them a little too efficient as figure-deployers? That's a factor that would impact their cost, at least.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

Taking a shot at some rules text:

Draftable Vehicle Destructible Objects (VDOs), unlike normal VDOs, act like figure Army Cards in that they have an associated point cost listed on them. Draftable VDOs are drafted the same way as Army Cards. There is no limit (except point cost!) to the number of different Draftable VDOs you can draft, and you can draft any number of the same Common VDOs (indicated in the leftbox). However, like figure Army Cards, each player cannot draft more than one of the same Unique Draftable VDO Army Card (indicated in the leftbox).

Like normal VDOs and other Army Cards, Draftable VDOs each have an associated figure that is placed in the controlling player's start zone at the start of the game and, unlike normal VDOs, are considered in that Player's Army. However, just like a normal VDO, a Draftable VDO is not considered under a Player's control unless that Player has one or more figures occupying that Draftable VDO (see Vehicle Destructible Object rules).

A Draftable VDO follows all other VDO rules.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

Letting people start off in vehicles might be okay, but it might make them a little too efficient as figure-deployers? That's a factor that would impact their cost, at least.

Sure, but other than being figure deployers, most of them won't have a terrible amount of use. I guess they might be protection for Order Marker hubs that don't require clear sight.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

The start in it power could be unit-specific, I guess. Makes the rules cleaner to put together without it anyhow. My only concern is the other player having start zone rushers on a small map and taking over your vehicle before you can get in it, but I guess if the map is too small vehicles are a waste anyway.

 

[Ronin]

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

That's definitely something that needs to happen and could be spelled out in a special attack on that VDO's card, IMO.

The other thing we may need to tackle that's going to be a lot lot harder is greater than 2 hex figure/vehicle movement.

Mole Machine sidesteps that issue by pseudo-teleporting. If the Batmobile takes up more than a couple spaces, then yeah, we may need to work something out. Might be a good thing to do anyway, like we were talking about in the Bucket List thread.

The start in it power could be unit-specific, I guess. Makes the rules cleaner to put together without it anyhow. My only concern is the other player having start zone rushers on a small map and taking over your vehicle before you can get in it, but I guess if the map is too small vehicles are a waste anyway.

Yeah, I think it would be easier to start the rules without that, and most units don't need it. We can save that for where it's most thematically needed.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

Cool. Hopefully the draft I put up for the rules text will move us close to the finish line on the rules part of this. Once we wrap that, it's just a matter of creating a draftable VDO to test them with.

 

[Ronin]

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

Taking a shot at some rules text:

Draftable Vehicle Destructible Objects (VDOs), unlike normal VDOs, act like figure Army Cards in that they have an associated point cost listed on them. Draftable VDOs are drafted the same way as Army Cards. There is no limit (except point cost!) to the number of different Draftable VDOs you can draft, and you can draft any number of the same Common VDOs (indicated in the leftbox). However, like figure Army Cards, each player cannot draft more than one of the same Unique Draftable VDO Army Card (indicated in the leftbox).

Like normal VDOs and other Army Cards, Draftable VDOs each have an associated figure that is placed in the controlling player's start zone at the start of the game and, unlike normal VDOs, are considered in that Player's Army. However, just like a normal VDO, a Draftable VDO is not considered under a Player's control unless that Player has one or more figures occupying that Draftable VDO (see Vehicle Destructible Object rules).

A Draftable VDO follows all other VDO rules.

Does it make sense to have draftable and undraftable VDOs, or should we just make them all draftable?

Retesting and costing the Sports Car and Mole Machine (probably as a Common and a Unique, respectively) would give us a useful test bed for the new rules, and help us figure out how much Vehicles are worth, so I like the idea of making those draftable.

Do we think we'd ever need to design an undraftable one again in the future? They don't seem to have been very attractive to design previously.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

That's a solid point and not having to apply the "draftable" adjective before every other instance of VDO would clean up the rules text.

At that point we'd be looking at a revision of the VDO rules instead of a new set of rules. Do @japes or @A3n still have access to a file they can edit for that?

Also, that's basically a reevaluation at that point (well, one for the rules and one for each vehicle) so it'd be something that would require a whole Hero vote, I'd think.

But, yeah, I'd be in favor. If we're going to make a draftable Batmobile, Mole Man should be able to draft his Mole Machine with him.

 

[Ronin]

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

That's a solid point and not having to apply the "draftable" adjective before every other instance of VDO would clean up the rules text.

At that point we'd be looking at a revision of the VDO rules instead of a new set of rules. Do @japes or @A3n still have access to a file they can edit for that?

Also, that's basically a reevaluation at that point (well, one for the rules and one for each vehicle) so it'd be something that would require a whole Hero vote, I'd think.

But, yeah, I'd be in favor. If we're going to make a draftable Batmobile, Mole Man should be able to draft his Mole Machine with him.

Yeah, we'll need a formal vote at some point, but I don't think anyone's ever weighed in against the idea when it's brought up.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

Sure, it'd just be good to know we're all buttoned up so we can move forward in confidence. Especially if we're all in agreement to revisit all VDOs as something draftable rather than just adding draftable VDOs to the overall VDO mix.

(I'm on board with you fully, though, for clarity ).

 

[Ronin]

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

Okay, so here's a spin at the rule additions:

Legacy Text:

C3G VEHICLE RULES

DESTRUCTIBLE OBJECTS - VEHICLES
Destructible objects are an official inclusion in the game, as seen with the Fortress Door and the Destructible Wall. C3G rules for destructible objects were established in the C3G Destructible Objects Rules. Vehicles are a type of destructible object that follow all of the rules of other destructible objects, but include a few specific to vehicles.

These C3G Vehicle Rules cover the following areas:

- Drafting Vehicles
- Entering Vehicles
- Occupying Vehicles
- Moving Vehicles
- Exiting Vehicles
- Destroying Vehicles

EXAMPLE 1: VEHICLE CARD
(Sample Card here)
A vehicle has three four designations in the left box of its Army Card: uniqueness, size, height, and occupancy. The size and height designations (such as Medium 5) are the same as those found on other figures' Army Cards.

DRAFTING VEHICLES
Vehicle Destructible Objects (VDOs) act like figure Army Cards in that they have an associated point cost listed on them. VDOs are drafted the same way as Army Cards. There is no limit (except point cost!) to the number of different VDOs you can draft, and you can draft any number of the same Uncommon VDOs (indicated in the leftbox). However, like figure Army Cards, each player cannot draft more than one of the same Unique VDO Army Card (indicated in the leftbox).

Like Army Cards, VDOs each have an associated figure that is placed in the controlling player's start zone at the start of the game and are considered in that player's Army. However, a VDO is not considered under a player's control unless that player has one or more figures occupying that VDO (see more below).

(rest of vehicle rules as normal)

EDIT: Addendum for squad movement rules (pending official wording): moving a vehicle replaces the entire movement phase of a squad card, not the movement phase for the swuad figure or figures occupying that vehicle.

I branded them as Unique/Uncommon instead of Unique/Common, because the Sports Car has 4 Life, and I'm not sure we'll ever see a ton of 1-Life vehicles.

So what else are we gonna need to clarify here? I kinda want to have the new rules prototyped before calling for a vote.

 

[Scapemage]

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

This is sounding pretty good. It's not difficult to add a uniqueness to our existing vehicles. Everything else is fairly straightforward.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

That looks solid. Good call on uncommons, though we'll have to be really careful to check for power stacking on them.

I think there may be a sentence in the current rules that says something about your not being able to draft VDOs or them not being in your Army (one or the other). We'll have to find that and make sure to edit it out if we make this change.

So far we just have the Mole Machine (unique) and Sports Car (uncommon) so we should be able to get both types figured out as part of this process, but not have too much we need to reevaluate.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: Draftable Vehicles Discussion Thread

So what do we need to do to get this to a votable place?