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The Book of Black Mask (II)

Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Public Playtesting)

I'm not sure how likely it is, but I'll see if I can get a test in this weekend. I'd like to see him go with the other Arkham figures. Especially since him, Penguin II, and Two-Face II are all complementary both in gameplay synergy as well as in giving underused character designs another go.

That said, I wouldn't hold the release up for it if it doesn't materialize of course.
 
Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Public Playtesting)

I did some testing with this guy since he was a priority and I already had a map out. I can post some of that up if it will help out. Fair warning, it would be a summary, not a round by round write up, I just can't play effectively if I have to stop and record that much info.
 
Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Public Playtesting)

I did some testing with this guy since he was a priority and I already had a map out. I can post some of that up if it will help out. Fair warning, it would be a summary, not a round by round write up, I just can't play effectively if I have to stop and record that much info.

Show us what you got! It's fine if the game description is a summary.
 
Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Public Playtesting)

Yep, just a summary is perfectly fine with me. As long as you can include some insight on how you think it went overall and if you feel Black Mask is balanced or not etc., that's all I'm really looking for.

Thanks in advance, if things went smoothly we're probably good to wrap things up with him. I was hoping to get a set in myself but time continues to be a challenge, but I'm slowly chipping away at that wall to hopefully get back into things.
 
Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Public Playtesting)

Ok, I can de-shorthand my notes into a proper summary late tonight once I get back to my computer.

Oh, should I put in an official play testing request in the thread for that?
 
Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Public Playtesting)

Whatever you got works. Thanks. I don't think a request or anything is needed at this point.
 
Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Public Playtesting)

Ok, I can de-shorthand my notes into a proper summary late tonight once I get back to my computer.

Oh, should I put in an official play testing request in the thread for that?

Whatever you got works. Thanks. I don't think a request or anything is needed at this point.

Concur. It's really a tracking thing so we don't double up on testing a unit while another goes blank.

EDIT: Also SW...Summaries are fine. We typically ask more from unknown testers or if we think a power wording may have some questions to see if it was played as intended but turn by turn has never been a requirement.
 
Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Public Playtesting)

Le first test, it is super late now, so I'll get the other one up tomorrow.


NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Black Mask II @140 points


- Theme Test – Pass
. I'm not an expert on Roman, but this design does fit with the appearances I'm familiar with.
- Bonding Test – Pass? A little concerning with the Hired Guns being able to chain with the bonding. It's a good thing Mentallo has a random blind spot for Unique Squads, 14 attacks during a player turn would be kind of nuts.
- Synergies Test - Pass
- Power Check - Pass
- Fun Test - Pass
- Fun Competitive Test - Pass
- Drafting Test - Pass
- Usage Test - Pass
- Strategy Test - Pass


Army Test 1
Map: Island Plane Crash (no E-Glyph)
Units: I Was A Lantern Once So This Is Thematic: Black Mask II (140), GL John Stewart (340), Mentallo (135), Hired Guns (130), Mr. Zsasz (100)- 845 total vs Cage Fighters Lite: Luke Cage (190), Iron Fist (260), Wolverine (280), Firestar (120)- 850 total
Spoiler Alert!


Sidenote- Is Black Mask supposed to be able to activate a Hied Gun or what not with Criminal Strategist? Looks like he can with the current wording, I don't think it would have mattered in my game though.

Army Test 2
Map: Sewer Labyrinth
Units: Torturous Turn Stacking: Black Mask II (140), Penguin II (140), Vulture (90), Hired Guns (130), Joker II (140), Mentallo (135)- 775 total vs Sacre Code Blue: Lt. Stone (140), Code Blue Officer x 3 (210), Beat Cops x1 (65), SWAT Assaulter x 6 (150), SWAT Rifleman x3 (105), SWAT Explosives Expert x3 (105)- 775 total
Spoiler Alert!
 
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Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Public Playtesting)

I believe that's the case, yes, as long as Black Mask doesn't attack. He wouldn't be able to choose them as a Unique Criminal though of course for the 2nd part of the power. Based on the wording it should be fine. I wouldn't be opposed to eliminating that if things are coming in too strong.

Hopefully your 2nd game the luck was more neutral so we can see a more telling result. The first set is a little alarming. I think a slight cost bump is in the cards either way, which shouldn't be any issue, but we'll see what else you got and your overall opinion. Thanks!
 
Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Public Playtesting)

It seems like we are missing the 'can't take additional turns' clause here that prevents chain bonding on other cards.
 
Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Public Playtesting)

I believe that's the case, yes, as long as Black Mask doesn't attack. He wouldn't be able to choose them as a Unique Criminal though of course for the 2nd part of the power. Based on the wording it should be fine. I wouldn't be opposed to eliminating that if things are coming in too strong.

Umm, I think we're talking about two different things here. I'm talking about activating one Hired Gun with Criminal Strategist after taking a turn with Black Mask, which the current wording allows since it only stipulates Unique Crime Lord / Criminal with no mention of being a Hero. So you could use him to get 10 attacks with the Hired Guns basically. Sounds like this isn't what you intended though.

Hopefully your 2nd game the luck was more neutral so we can see a more telling result. The first set is a little alarming. I think a slight cost bump is in the cards either way, which shouldn't be any issue, but we'll see what else you got and your overall opinion. Thanks!

I could see a slight cost bump, I wouldn't worry too much from that test though. There were a lot of things in Black Mask's favor there with the map and the match-up. Even then there were still obvious points of failure that the other team just never managed to capitalize on. Honestly surprised it did as good as it did.
 
Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Public Playtesting)

Gotcha. Yeah that should be changed.
 
Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Public Playtesting)

@Soundwarp SG-1

Are you still planning on posting the other game you played? Just checking in to see if that's the plan. We should be able to move this through once we have all that in.
 
Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Public Playtesting)

@Soundwarp SG-1

Are you still planning on posting the other game you played? Just checking in to see if that's the plan. We should be able to move this through once we have all that in.

Yeah, getting it written up now. Sorry, I'm not a fast writer.
 
Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Public Playtesting)

All good, no real rush. Just checking to make sure that was the plan.
 
Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Public Playtesting)

Alrighty, got my second test written up in my earlier post. Long story short, you can do some crazy turn chains with Mask. I should have done better about mentioning that stuff as a CRB member earlier, sorry about that. EDIT- Actually, it doesn't look like this one ever got a CRB phase, so that makes me feel a bit better.

Now, a lot of that is more Joker and Mentallo's fault than Mask's (really he just adds the Hired Guns bit), but I still think he could stand either the no extra turns lingo or a price bump. Really though, Joker and Mentallo and such need some work themselves, at least to get rid of the turns jumping in and out of other turns stuff.
 
Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Public Playtesting)

Alrighty, got my second test written up in my earlier post. Long story short, you can do some crazy turn chains with Mask. I should have done better about mentioning that stuff as a CRB member earlier, sorry about that. EDIT- Actually, it doesn't look like this one ever got a CRB phase, so that makes me feel a bit better.

Now, a lot of that is more Joker and Mentallo's fault than Mask's (really he just adds the Hired Guns bit), but I still think he could stand either the no extra turns lingo or a price bump. Really though, Joker and Mentallo and such need some work themselves, at least to get rid of the turns jumping in and out of other turns stuff.

The lack of turn loop prevention lingo was an oversight more than an intended mechanic, so that'll definitely be added. As for the cost, what do you feel is reasonable? I'm thinking 160 is probably a good landing point just to be on the safe side. Thoughts?
 
Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Public Playtesting)

His record is as follows:

@135 = 1-0
@140 = 2-0
@145 = 1-0
@150 = 1-2
 
Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Public Playtesting)

Alrighty, got my second test written up in my earlier post. Long story short, you can do some crazy turn chains with Mask. I should have done better about mentioning that stuff as a CRB member earlier, sorry about that. EDIT- Actually, it doesn't look like this one ever got a CRB phase, so that makes me feel a bit better.

Now, a lot of that is more Joker and Mentallo's fault than Mask's (really he just adds the Hired Guns bit), but I still think he could stand either the no extra turns lingo or a price bump. Really though, Joker and Mentallo and such need some work themselves, at least to get rid of the turns jumping in and out of other turns stuff.

The lack of turn loop prevention lingo was an oversight more than an intended mechanic, so that'll definitely be added. As for the cost, what do you feel is reasonable? I'm thinking 160 is probably a good landing point just to be on the safe side. Thoughts?

Without the turn hopping, I'd think 150-160 is a good range. 140 strikes me as a bit too much of a bargain considering all he has going on, especially when it's not like he's a terrible solo combatant when it comes to that. 160 plus Penguin's 140 makes for a nice even 300 point base for fun Gotham Underworld builds, so there's that. Now they just need a thematic replacement for Vulture to get Mask in the fray.

Anyway, I hope my tests were of some use to you.

Side note- I really like what you've been doing for the Bat-Villains here, very cohesive. Especially taking characters who got shafted on decent cards before and giving them something usable. Here's hoping for a Ventriloquist II next.
 
Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Public Playtesting)

If the chain bonding and 5 hired guns in one turn issues are eliminated via final editing updates, then it looks like 150 is where he started coming in at a good place. If you wanted him to end in a '5' for some reason, 155 could work well if you are still thinking a bump beyond 150 is needed.
 
Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Public Playtesting)

I'd be fine with 150 or 155. 150 was a good place based on Ronin's initial tests, and he got Lex Corp Security removed from bonding since then, the chain loop will be removed, and the restriction of Unique to eliminate crazy Hired Guns usages, so 150 could be reasonable. With Soundwarp's approval it gives me more faith at that price as well.

Side note- I really like what you've been doing for the Bat-Villains here, very cohesive. Especially taking characters who got shafted on decent cards before and giving them something usable. Here's hoping for a Ventriloquist II next.

Thanks! My main goal was to get some of these lesser played figures a new lease on life, especially because I'm obviously a fan of the Batman rogues gallery. So it was a double incentive on my part. It was also a nice opportunity to build a new tent pole in the Crime Lord/Criminal faction, giving them some enhanced synergy and reason to play the Bat-rogues together.

As for Ventriloquist, unfortunately he only has 1 mini last I checked. So he may be held back by that. I definitely considered that though, because he could really use it.
 
Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Public Playtesting)

Pre-yea for final editing at 150-160. That range works for me, with turn-chain issues cleaned up. :up:

Off-topic, I was disappointed that the recent "Harley Quinn and the Gotham Girls" Clix set didn't have either of the female Ventriloquists (though neither of them would actually be a retool of Wesker, of course).

What I'd really like to see is a new twist on the al Ghuls. Talia's "can't fight Batman" special power is kind of a bummer, and Ra's is super-finicky to get working.
 
Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Public Playtesting)

We'll roll with 150, it's reasonable and we might as well try to avoid an overpricing issue with his 2nd go around just to be sure he receives more attention.

Ra's and Talia could use a version that's less niche in approach, although there's certainly nothing wrong with their current versions. A different take could be beneficial. As much as I like Scarecrow's design, I'd love to see a version where he can actually have some Fear hallucinations spelled out that can have all sorts of fun manipulation results to toy with the opponents. So he's probably up on my personal priority list if I were to revisit the Bat rogues gallery.

After doing so many, I feel more compelled to take a break from them for a bit following Black Mask, but in time I'll be looking to do a couple more when inspiration strikes.
 
Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Breathing)

NAME = BLACK MASK
SECRET IDENTITY = ROMAN SIONIS

SPECIES = HUMAN
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = CRIME LORD
PERSONALITY = RUTHLESS

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 4

MOVE = 5
RANGE = 5
ATTACK = 4
DEFENSE = 4

POINTS = 150


CRIMINALLY INSANE
If Black Mask is on the battlefield and all your Order Markers are on the cards of Crime Lords you control, Insane figures you control have the class of Criminal instead of what is listed on their cards.

CRIMINAL STRATEGIST
After revealing an Order Marker on this card and taking a turn with Black Mask, if Black Mask did not move during his turn, you may rearrange any unrevealed Order Markers on Army Cards you control and immediately take a turn with a Unique Crime Lord or Unique Criminal Hero you control within 5 clear sight spaces of Black Mask. You may not take any additional turns with any other figures.

TORTUROUS INTERROGATION
After a figure you control attacks an opponent's adjacent figure with an adjacent normal attack, if the defending figure receives at least one wound and is engaged with Black Mask, that opponent may immediately reveal and remove one unrevealed Order Marker from any Army Card that opponent controls. If that opponent does not reveal and remove an Order Marker, the defending figure receives 1 wound. Figures with the Super Strength special power are not affected by Torturous Interrogation.

Pasteability:

NAME = BLACK MASK
SECRET IDENTITY = ROMAN SIONIS

SPECIES = HUMAN
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = CRIME LORD
PERSONALITY = RUTHLESS

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 4

MOVE = 5
RANGE = 5
ATTACK = 4
DEFENSE = 4

POINTS = 150


CRIMINALLY INSANE
If Black Mask is on the battlefield and all your Order Markers are on the cards of Crime Lords you control, Insane figures you control have the class of Criminal instead of what is listed on their cards.

CRIMINAL STRATEGIST
After revealing an Order Marker on this card and taking a turn with Black Mask, if Black Mask did not move during his turn, you may rearrange any unrevealed Order Markers on Army Cards you control and immediately take a turn with a Unique Crime Lord or Unique Criminal Hero you control within 5 clear sight spaces of Black Mask. You may not take any additional turns with any other figures.

TORTUROUS INTERROGATION
After a figure you control attacks an opponent's figure with an adjacent normal attack, if the defending figure receives at least one wound and is engaged with Black Mask, that opponent may immediately reveal and remove one unrevealed Order Marker from any Army Card that opponent controls. If your opponent does not reveal and remove an Order Marker, the defending figure receives 1 wound. Figures with the Super Strength special power are not affected by Torturous Interrogation.
 
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