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The Book of Black Mask (II)

Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Vote for Public Playtesting

I guess my main concern is that, in the metagame, if he just ends up being "linchpin Insane leader" despite it not really being appropriate for him to have that role. I'm not familiar enough with the status of the Criminal and Insane factions in army building, but I think a "streams-crossed" hybrid army with Black Mask at the helm should be a weird, slightly inefficient but fun sideshow, and now something that overshadows the "pure" version of those armies.
 
Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Vote for Public Playtesting

It kind of looked like he was playing at below 150 in the first two games, then once some strong Insane Heroes were given Lex Corp bonding he played much stronger. Is there a way we can bring all the Insane heroes into all the Criminal synergy except squad bonding? It would be nice if Deadpool bonding with the Lex Corp wasn't driving his price up to a level where he ends up not being used for anything else.

You might be able to rule out Lex Corp with some language like, "whenever a special power on the Army Card of a Crime Lord you control refers to Criminals, it refers to Insane figures as well."
 
Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Vote for Public Playtesting

It kind of looked like he was playing at below 150 in the first two games, then once some strong Insane Heroes were given Lex Corp bonding he played much stronger. Is there a way we can bring all the Insane heroes into all the Criminal synergy except squad bonding? It would be nice if Deadpool bonding with the Lex Corp wasn't driving his price up to a level where he ends up not being used for anything else.

You might be able to rule out Lex Corp with some language like, "whenever a special power on the Army Card of a Crime Lord you control refers to Criminals, it refers to Insane figures as well."

Does that get @Arkham all the Batman villains themed synergy he wants here? If it does, then I'd go with something like that to cut the Lex Corp Deadpool bonding out of the loop and thus keep his cost in line with the desired Black Mask/Penguin/Two-Face combo. With that change you could send him out for public play testing at 130-140 and see how he does rather than sending him out at 150 and asking people to focus their testing on the Lex Corp/Insane bonding chain.
 
Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Vote for Public Playtesting

Sounds like a reasonable change to me. :up:
 
Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Vote for Public Playtesting

I'd consider it an improvement, yeah.
 
Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Vote for Public Playtesting

Well, if you want to do something similar with slightly less funky wording, y'all could just have the 'Insane to Criminal' thing only work as long as all your Oms are on Crimelords. Gets rid of the Lex Corp stuff and doesn't really effect anyone one too negatively since the Crimelords all want Oms on their cards anyway. Makes Black Mask's Om rearranging power a bit more interesting too.
 
Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Vote for Public Playtesting

since the Crimelords all want Oms on their cards anyway.

...except when they want to bond with Street Thugs.

I meant they all* want OMs on their card to do things that actually matter for this power (or matter for anything really). Nobody should be trying to rock some nightmare army with Street Thugs, Crime Lords, and Insane figures anyway, especially since the Street Thugs kinda suck and have weird 'anti-synergy' with half of the people they're supposed to work with.



*well, ok not Ventriloquist and Black Mask 1 but no big loss, still mostly irrelevant there (the Black Mask bit can't even come into play unless you throw in some kind of future 'ignore secret id restrictions' Character).
 
Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Vote for Public Playtesting

I like that take. :up: More organic.
 
Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Vote for Public Playtesting

This passes to Public Playtesting.
 
Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Public Playtesting)

Lazy's tests:

Name Of The Playtest Unit: Black Mask (vII)


- Theme Test -
Inconclusive, as I don't know the character, but nothing felt wrong.
- Mirror Test - Pass
- Bonding Test -
Pass - Chain bonding Bodyguard movement, Hired Guns attacks and a turn with a Criminal is really strong, but I don't think OP.
- Synergies Test - Pass - He lives and breathes this, and bringing the Insane into Criminal synergy conditionally is pretty awesome.
- Power Check - Pass, though he may be a tad undercosted.
- Fun Test - Pass - I had a lot of fun building criminal syndicates with this guy, especially when you can sprinkle in a little insanity.
- Fun Competitive Test - Pass - He was fun to play against.
- Drafting Test - Pass - Definitely, though you’d probably be building around him rather than adding him into another army.
- Usage Test - Tentative Pass - I never found use for moving Order Markers with him, but the option doesn't hurt.
- Strategy Test - Pass - He seems fairly strategic.

Army Test 1
Map:
Bad Moon Rising (no glyphs)
Armies:
Black Mask (vII), Penguin (vII), Two Face (vII), Deadpool, Scarecrow, Mister Zsasz (975 points)
vs.
Batman (vI), Batwoman, Black Bat, Batgirl (Barbara Gordon), Robin (Tim Drake), Robin (Damien Wayne), Alfred Pennyworth (970 points)
Spoiler Alert!


Army Test 2
Map:
Conflict Chernobyl (No Glyphs)
Armies;
Black Mask (vII), Penguin (vII), Green Goblin, Floronic Man, Hired Guns, 4x Bodyguards (835 points)
vs.
Black Tarantula, Poison Ivy (vII), Cheshire, Red Mist, 2x Street Thugs (835 points)
Spoiler Alert!


Thoughts On The Tested Unit's Cost, Balance, & Draftibility:


He seems a lot of fun, and actually surprised me by how strong he was in these games. It is worth noting that I’d chalk a lot of his strength up to Penguin in those games - Political Investment makes him a lot harder to assassinate, and is a nice deterrent against trying to, whereas without Penguin on his side he’d be much easier to take down. That being said, I’d still say he deserves a bump to at least 150, and even 160 would neither surprise nor bother me.

 
Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Public Playtesting)

Looks like Ronin only used the OM rearrangement one time in the 3 games he ran. Perhaps cut that part out if it isn't all that useful.
 
Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Public Playtesting)

Getting the X off of Penguin and onto Black Tarantula seems like it'd be worth it, but I suppose people find the restriction of all OMs on Crime Lords to make it not as needed. Not sure.
 
Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Public Playtesting)

I think we need to make this a Priority test and give away the extra point for public test...This is the last figure for our December release and we missed our last release and we need a Christmas release...
 
Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Public Playtesting)

We've already got five figures in that booster. Black Mask would be a nice bonus, but if he did miss his window, we could still have a Christmas release.

Couldn't hurt to make him a priority, anyway, just to point anyone testing towards him over the other stuff available. We're not in danger of missing the Christmas release, though.
 
Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Public Playtesting)

We've already got five figures in that booster. Black Mask would be a nice bonus, but if he did miss his window, we could still have a Christmas release.

Couldn't hurt to make him a priority, anyway, just to point anyone testing towards him over the other stuff available. We're not in danger of missing the Christmas release, though.

True, he just seems to fit the build up Arkham was going for and I'm not sure when he could be released if held til later.
 
Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Public Playtesting)

I'm okay with making it a priority. I'd like to see him go out with Penguin and Two Face.
 
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