The Book of Black Mask (II)

[Viegon]

Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Breathing)

I was initially thinking replace as well but with the OM requirement would that mean they have no class once Black Mask dies?

No, because the power doesn't remove their base class, it just overwrites it while the power is in effect.

 

[Ronin]

Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Breathing)

I'd also err on the side of the "instead of" wording, to play it safe.

I was initially thinking replace as well but with the OM requirement would that mean they have no class once Black Mask dies?

No, with the "instead of" wording, they just go back to whatever their normal class is when Black Mask doesn't have an OM or he's taken out of the game.

The only one's class being replaced that I see a potential issue with, is Mad Hatter's class of Mastermind pairs well with Penguin since he needs an OM to start Tea Party. It's not something that's a deal breaker by any means, but that's the only change that might affect him negatively.

I think that's a pretty small price to pay, and you can always get that Penguin/Hatter team-up by playing without Black Mask.

 

[Arkham]

Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Breathing)

I'd agree that it's a small price to pay, and that you don't always need to draft Black Mask. Also, you don't need to put an OM on him, which would allow you to keep Mad Hatter a Mastermind for that round. So it's likely the better and safer route to take.

 

[johnny139]

Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Breathing)

My first thought is - is there any reason you're not making a design for Jeremiah Arkham here? He was the second Black Mask and is mostly known for freeing the inmates from the Asylum and being actually insane. Sionis doesn't really deserve the "Insane" moniker to me. The only difference is that Arkham isn't really known for torture the same way.

Otherwise direction seems solid to me, the restriction on his Criminal Recruitment is definitely advisable.

 

[Ronin]

Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Breathing)

Yeah, the Insane ties here would be super-thematic on Jeremiah Arkham, but I'm not up enough on Sionis to really say one way or the other.

 

[Arkham]

Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Breathing)

I thought about it, but ultimately Sionis is the one I'm familiar with. I'm fine with changing his personality from Insane to Ruthless if that helps make it feel more like Sionis. The theme being that Sionis would have no qualms about who he hires, is certifiably insane in his own sadistic way, and has taken over the Gotham Underworld on a couple of occasions as he's an expert strategist. So I felt that was more fitting to Sionis.

Jeremiah wouldn't be a bad route to take eventually. Perhaps with a more focus specifically on the Insane and working with the Arkham inmates directly.

 

[Arkham]

Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Breathing)

Updated SP with suggested changes, as well as his personality from Insane to Ruthless to stay more in-line with Sionis while leaving Insane for eventual Jeremiah.

I propose the vote to move to initial playtesting.
@Viegon
@johnny139
@japes
@Yodaking
@Ronin

 

[Ronin]

Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Breathing)

yea

 

[japes]

Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Vote for Initial Playtestin

YEA

 

[Yodaking]

Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Vote for Initial Playtestin

yea

 

[johnny139]

Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Vote for Initial Playtestin

I'm a bit iffy on the idea of a blanket Insane recruitment for Sionis - he's sort of a step beyond Penguin where he's regularly hired nutjobs in the past but has never really made an army out of them. To my knowledge at least.

I'll Yea though all the same and see how it runs in practice.

 

[japes]

Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Vote for Initial Playtestin

I'm a bit iffy on the idea of a blanket Insane recruitment for Sionis - he's sort of a step beyond Penguin where he's regularly hired nutjobs in the past but has never really made an army out of them. To my knowledge at least.

I'll Yea though all the same and see how it runs in practice.

For the record my YEA was to see how the open insane would work as well. I'm not sure it will be an issue but I am cautious enough to look out for it.

 

[Viegon]

Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Vote for Initial Playtestin

Yea

 

[Arkham]

Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Vote for Initial Playtestin

This passes.

I should be able to get to it here this weekend.

 

[Ronin]

Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Initial Playtesting)

@Arkham

Do you want me to lend a hand with the initial here?

 

[Arkham]

Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Initial Playtesting)

If you have the desire and the time, I would greatly appreciate it.

 

[Ronin]

Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Initial Playtesting)

Plenty of both. I'll knock it out in the next few days. Tomorrow, if the weather is bad.

 

[Ronin]

Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Initial Playtesting)

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Black Mask (II) @150 points

Army Test
Map: Custom
Units: Black Mask (II) @150, Penguin (II), Firefly, Vulture, Joker (III), Wizard (800) vs Black Canary, Green Arrow (Ollie), Speedy (Roy), Batgirl (Cass), Robin (Dick), Oracle, Skrull Infiltrator x3 (800)

Spoiler Alert!

Black Mask and Penguin coordinate the Criminals well, but Black Canary hits too hard for the squishy Criminals to deal with. Black Mask gets a couple good hits in himself, thanks to Penguin's Political Investments preserving him.

Unit Summary:

• Damage Done (Normal Attack): 3 wounds to Robin in 1 attack (destroyed), destroyed 1 Skrull in 2 attacks, 1 wound to Batgirl in 2 attacks
• Criminally Insane: made Firefly and Joker into Criminals
• Criminal Strategist: took turns with Firefly, Wizard, Joker. Moved OMs 1 time.
• Torturous Interrogation: 1 extra wound to Batgirl
• Damage Taken: 2 wounds in 2 attacks from Speedy, 1 wound from Batgirl's Defensive Premonition

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Green Arrow with 2 wounds, Batgirl with 2 wounds, Oracle unwounded

___________________________________________________________​

Army Test
Map: Custom
Units: Black Mask (II) @150, Penguin (II), Poison Ivy (I), Harley Quinn (I), Deadpool, Vulture, Hydra Bob, Bodyguard (1000) vs Captain America, Bucky, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, Iron Man Mk IV (1000)

Spoiler Alert!

Again, Black Mask's team proves regrettably squishy, but Black Mask himself gets some good hits in, thanks to Penguin's protection and his attack bonding.

Unit Summary:

• Damage Done (Normal Attack): 5 wounds to Captain America in 4 attacks (destroyed), 4 wounds to Iron Fist in 2 attacks (destroyed), 1 wound to Luke Cage in 1 attack
• Criminally Insane: made Ivy, Harley, and Deadpool into Criminals
• Criminal Strategist: took turns with Deadpool, Poison Ivy
• Torturous Interrogation: 1 extra wound to Iron Fist
• Damage Taken: 3 wounds from Iron Fist in 1 attack, 0 wounds from Luke Cage in 2 attacks, 1 wound from Iron Man in 1 attack (destroyed)

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Luke Cage with 1 wound, Bucky with 2 wounds, Iron Man unwounded

___________________________________________________________​

Army Test
Map: Custom
Units: Black Mask (II) @150, LexCorp Security x2, Carnage, Deadpool, Hydra Bob (1000) vs Captain America, Bucky, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, Iron Man Mk IV (1000)

Spoiler Alert!

Black Mask largely just played back and took X OMs this game to keep Carnage and Wade as Criminals and let them bond with Lex Corp, only emerging from the SZ to serve as a source of back-up bonding once the Avengers killed off the Lex Corp agents. Very strong performances from Deadpool and Carnage here, with Carnage's evasion roll coming up 3 outta 4 times. Deadpool is in trouble at one point, but manages to heal himself back up and create a more uneven-looking victory margin.

Unit Summary:

• Damage Done (Normal Attack): 3 wounds to Iron Fist in 2 attacks
• Criminally Insane: made Deadpool and Carnage into Criminals
• Criminal Strategist: used to take a turn with Carnage. OM rearrangement not used
• Torturous Interrogation: not used
• Damage Taken:3 wounds from Iron Man in 1 special attack

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Black Mask with 3 wounds, Carnage with 1 wound, Deadpool unwounded

THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: I'd be comfortable pushing him to public playtesting at 150. He opens up the already-robust Criminal synergy to a few interesting new units. If you want to play him forward and try to get the most out of Torturous Interrogation, Penguin II providing protection feels like a must. There's some tension to being able to get a lot out of his own leadership and Torturous Interrogation, and also being able to really leverage Insane-as-Criminals that feels like it keeps him pretty balanced.

GENERAL THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT: Fun design - I'm sure he'll see more action than the original.

 

[Arkham]

Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Initial Playtesting)

Thank you for the tests!

I propose we move to Public Playtesting at 150. @Yodaking @Viegon @japes @Ronin @johnny139

 

[Ronin]

Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Initial Playtesting)

yea

 

[Viegon]

Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Initial Playtesting)

Yea

 

[japes]

Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Vote for Public Playtesting

Yea

 

[johnny139]

Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Vote for Public Playtesting

How strong did the Insane synergies feel here? Did they dominate the card/army building process for you?

 

[Ronin]

Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Vote for Public Playtesting

There's potential there, and you definitely can build that way by doing something like Black Mask + Lex Corp Security + Insane figures. LexCorp aside, though, I didn't feel like there was much of a way to exploit it, and I didn't really feel like Lex Corp were way better than his other options. That might need some further testing to bear that out since Black Mask and Lex Corps did so well, but there was definitely some flukey luck in their favor for that victory.

Might be different if the Insane were being recruited into a faction with more passive benefits and tactician powers, but a lot of Criminal stuff is bonding or OM management that's already built around having a large number of figures and potential heavy-hitters.

 

[Yodaking]

Re: The Book of Black Mask (II) (Vote for Public Playtesting

It kind of looked like he was playing at below 150 in the first two games, then once some strong Insane Heroes were given Lex Corp bonding he played much stronger. Is there a way we can bring all the Insane heroes into all the Criminal synergy except squad bonding? It would be nice if Deadpool bonding with the Lex Corp wasn't driving his price up to a level where he ends up not being used for anything else.