The Book of Batman (Occult)

[IAmBatman]

The Book of Batman (Occult)

C3G DC WAVE 47
TRINITY

Comic PDF

Mini PDF

The figure used for this unit is a Heroclix figure from the World's Finest set.
Its model number and name are #003/Batman.​

_________________________________________________________________

Character Bio - "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy" (Shakespeare, 1609)
_________________________________________________________________

-Rulings and Clarifications-

• N/A

_________________________________________________________________

-Combinations and Synergies-

Incoming Synergy:

• As an Investigator, Batman has these Investigator Synergies.

Outgoing Synergy:

• Batman may take a turn with an Investigator, Vagabond, Magician, or Prince with his Occult Investigations special power.

Immunities, Benefits, and Weaknesses:

• N/A

_________________________________________________________________

-Strategy, Tactics and Tips-

• N/A

-Heroscapers Community Contributions-

• Initial playtest: (IAmBatman)
• Second playtest: (Toyhandle and Splashdown)
• Third playtest: (Ericth74)
• Fourth playtest: (Redstang)
• Art: Comic, Figure, Background
• Card Art by tcglkn

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: The Book of Batman (Occult) - Breathing

NAME = BATMAN
SECRET IDENTITY = BRUCE WAYNE

SPECIES = HUMAN
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = INVESTIGATOR
PERSONALITY = BROODING
SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 4
MOVE = 5
RANGE = 5
ATTACK = 4
DEFENSE = 5
POINTS = 230

OCCULT INVESTIGATIONS
After revealing an Order Marker on the Army Card of a Unique Hero in your army that is an Investigator or Vagabond, instead of taking a turn with that Hero, you may roll 2 combat dice, or 3 combat dice if Batman is engaged. For each skull rolled, you may take a turn with any Investigator or Vagabond you control. For each shield rolled, you may take a turn with any Magician or Prince you control. For each blank rolled, you may inflict one automatic wound on a figure within 5 clear sight spaces of Batman. You may not take additional turns or activate the same figure more than once.

CREATURE OF THE NIGHT
Batman never takes leaving engagement attacks and is never in clear sight of non-adjacent enemy figures. When Batman attacks a figure on a shadow space, it does not receive any additional defense dice.

URBAN LEGEND
After Batman defends against an attack from an enemy figure, you may place him on this card. While Batman is on this card and not destroyed, you may still take turns with Batman, and at the end of the round you must place him on any empty space on the battlefield and roll an unblockable attack die against each adjacent enemy figure with at least one revealed Order Marker on its Army Card.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: The Book of Batman (Occult) - Breathing

Mini Picture

Comic Picture

Background

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: The Book of Batman (Occult) - Breathing

Still need to figure out an exact mini for this guy, but I'd love anything with long ears and/or a super long cape.

This one is meant to represent the version of Batman who feels like a supernatural creature of the night more than a superhero and who spends his time delving into investigations of the bizarre, horrific, and often magical. This is the version of Batman who'd team up with Swamp Thing, or Zatanna, or Ragman, or Etrigan the Demon.

 

[Tornado]

Re: The Book of Batman (Occult) - Breathing

How does he create shadow?

 

[Ronin]

Re: The Book of Batman (Occult) - Breathing

Big umbrella maybe?

Seriously though, I do think the "my space is shadow" effect works for him, but extending it to the adjacent spaces is a little odd. Not crazy, but it seems cuttable unless there's a specific reason for it I'm not seeing.

Should there be a 'no double turns with the same figure' clause in the first power?

 

[Arkham]

Re: The Book of Batman (Occult) - Breathing

Looks cool!

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: The Book of Batman (Occult) - Breathing

How does he create shadow?

Big umbrella maybe?

Seriously though, I do think the "my space is shadow" effect works for him, but extending it to the adjacent spaces is a little odd. Not crazy, but it seems cuttable unless there's a specific reason for it I'm not seeing.

My reasoning is that this is urban legend, creature of the night Batman who only appears in shadowy areas. It's cuttable if folks really don't like it, but I feel there's thematic justification for a Batman who somehow is always among the shadows.

Should there be a 'no double turns with the same figure' clause in the first power?

Yes. If he's coming in a bit light, I'm also toying with the idea of letting him roll 3 dice when engaged.

 

[Tornado]

Re: The Book of Batman (Occult) - Breathing

Considering all the things Batman can do, should we really be giving him a power representing something he cannot?
Should he be able to create shadow and darkness on a level of characters who actually have that ability?
I would be more in favor of an Event card that makes the whole map shadow. Only Comes Out At Night.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: The Book of Batman (Occult) - Breathing

So a revised version would basically be:

KNIGHTMARE
While there is a revealed Order Marker on this card, the space Batman occupies is considered a shadow space in addition to its normal terrain type. When Batman attacks a figure on a shadow space, it does not receive any additional defense dice. Batman never takes leaving engagement attacks and while he is on a shadow space he is never in clear sight of non-adjacent enemy figures.

Also wondering if it we should change the title to something like "Creature of the Night."?

 

[MrNobody]

Re: The Book of Batman (Occult) - Breathing

Also wondering if it we should change the title to something like "Creature of the Night."?

T-t-t-t-touch me!

What if there was some terrain restriction to the shadow-making instead of an OM requirement? I do agree that it's just a little bit of a stretch that he's standing in the middle of a grassy field and just happens to have a shadow around him.

STICK TO THE SHADOWS
While Batman or any friendly figure adjacent to Batman is adjacent to any terrain, obstacle, or destructible object with a height higher than their base, they are considered to occupy a shadow space in addition to any other terrain types. When Batman attacks a figure on a shadow space, it does not receive any additional defense dice. Batman never takes leaving engagement attacks and while he is on a shadow space he is never in clear sight of non-adjacent enemy figures.

 

[Lord Pyre]

Re: The Book of Batman (Occult) - Breathing

Still love it! And come on, it's Batman. He's armed to the teeth with smoke bombs, of course he can have spaces around him be shadowy.

So if that's not clear, big fan of him and the adjacent shadow spaces. And I'm definitely not a fan of tying it to terrain. This is a leader-style figure, having him only be good on certain maps would be a big miss in my opinion.

 

[MrNobody]

Re: The Book of Batman (Occult) - Breathing

I’ve got a fair amount of experience with the “higher than their base” wording, and it’s effective on pretty much every map. It does mix up the way you play the character a bit, but in an evocative way IMO.

EDIT: Like if we don't like it, we don't like it, just want to clarify that it's not a "terrain effect" in the same way needing to stand on a water tile is.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: The Book of Batman (Occult) - Breathing

I'm actually thinking the direction is to simplify it further. Shadow-casting takes away from metas like Obsidian, but I think it's fair and thematic for his being on shadow to always be on. Could easily do something like this:

CREATURE OF THE NIGHT
When Batman attacks a figure on a shadow space, it does not receive any additional defense dice. Batman never takes leaving engagement attacks and is never in clear sight of non-adjacent enemy figures.

Since if he's not making other spaces shadow, there's probably no real reason to actually make his space shadow. And I don't really love the fiddliness of it sometimes being shadow and sometimes not, so the OM requirement thing probably isn't worth having.

I think the above is a lot more streamlined and should work, unless we've done those mechanics all together before?

Edit: Quick index search suggests we're good.

 

[tcglkn]

Re: The Book of Batman (Occult) - Breathing

Like the streamlined take

 

[Ronin]

Re: The Book of Batman (Occult) - Breathing

I think streamlining makes sense.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: The Book of Batman (Occult) - Breathing

OK, updated the SP with the streamlined Creature of the Night power and added in the 3 combat dice if Batman is engaged idea in the first power just to give the bonding a bit more pop. I can always take that back out if he comes in too strong.

I need to look through my minis for Batman tomorrow and try to settle on a direction there unless someone has something they want to advocate for?

Checklists in a bit.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: The Book of Batman (Occult) - Design

COMPETITIVE REVIEW BOARD CHECKLIST

Spoiler Alert!

Efficiency- Check to see if your design is providing armies with turns/moves/etc. to a degree that would make it difficult or impossible for an opponent to keep up with your output.

1. Does your design allow itself or figures to move/attack/take a turn/etc. instead of/in addition to your normal turn for revealing an Order Marker? Is it granting these benefits to too broad a range of units? Does it combine with other powers to create overly long or powerful chains of actions?
It's a turn efficiency based design, with a bit of a random element. We'll see how powerful it is in practice, but that's a focal point of the costing here and it's not doing anything unheard of yet.
2. Does your design allow you to take actions during an opponent's turn? Can it combine with other powers to create tediously long reactions to enemy actions or a restrictive environment?
He can go on his card after defending on another player's turn. No issue.
3. Does your design allow you to rearrange your Order Markers or otherwise bypass the costs of Order Marker requirements on the special powers of other figures?
No issue
4. Is your design doing anything outside of a player's turn, at the start or end of the round? Is the effect too powerful by itself or when combined with other powers?
He has auto wound potential at the end of rounds that will be considered in costing.
5. Does your design have any powers that trigger anytime it moves as opposed to only when it moves normally on its turn? Will it be too efficient when combined with figures that grant extra moves to figures?
No issue
6. Is your design adding or subtracting from initiative rolls? Will it pair too easily with other figures that alter initiative or have powers triggering on the results of initiative rolls?
No issue

Potency- Check to see if your design is wounding/removing/etc. enemy figures, increasing the chances of other figures in your army doing so, or otherwise directly effecting the number of figures available to players to a degree that would make it difficult or impossible for an opponent to recover from.

1. Does your design have a chance to inflict wounds or destroy figures? Is it getting these chances too frequently or having to high a chance of success? Is the power balanced against expensive targets that can cause a massive swing in the game when destroyed?
Fairly decent potential auto wounding output that will be a focal point in testing as well.

2. Is your design adding to the stats or 20-sided die rolls of other figures in your army? Is it a boosting a broad enough range of units effectively enough to become a 'mandatory' draft or inhibit future design space? Can it be combined with other boosts too easily?
No issue
3. Will your design benefit from stat boosts or other enhancement to an overpowering degree? Will it restrict future growth within its faction or point cost by limiting available boosts to others?
No issue
4. Does your design take control of enemy figures permanently or temporarily? Is it too difficult to for your opponent to regain control of their figure or recover from the losing the figure? Does the method of taking control expose the enemy figure to the powers of other figures in your army that can easily destroy it?
No issue
5. Can your design heal itself or others or revive itself or others? Is it doing so in a way that an opponent cannot hope to overcome in certain scenarios?
No issue
6. Does your design place enemy figures on its card or otherwise have an unconventional method of temporarily removing enemy figures from play? Will it guarantee your victory against a single remaining enemy figure?
He does with himself, but that only risks his own victory, not vice versa.

Chicanery- Check to see if your design is preventing your opponent from taking actions with too much ease or is otherwise causing negative play experience through tactics that make your opponent feel you're 'not playing fair'

1. Does your design restrict the movement of enemy figures, or allow you to move enemy figures? Can it do so in a way that results in an unwinnable scenario for your opponent if they are down to one figure, posses only figures with a range of 1, etc.? Can your design easily combine with other figures to greatly impede enemy figures or otherwise gain an excessive advantage?
No issue
2. Does your design effect/change the placement of an enemy's Order Markers, or remove their Order Markers entirely? Can it force Order Markers to go onto cards that have no figures on the battlefield? Can your design easily combine with other figures to completely dictate the placement of an enemy's Order Markers or remove all of their Order Markers?
No issue

3. Does your design inhibit your opponent from attacking your figures or make attacking a losing proposition? Are there scenarios or combinations that make your opponent totally unable to harm your figures through attacking?
No issue.
4. Does your design directly negate the powers of enemy figures or otherwise ignore them in a way that can completely disrupt the opponent's strategy or leave them feeling like they are stuck playing figures without special powers?
No issue.
5. Does your design become overly powerful in a podded group of figures, or provide significant benefit to your army without leaving your Start Zone?
No issue
6. You can attack your own figures in Heroscape, does your design have any powers that will trigger off of doing so or otherwise wounding/destroying your own figures? Is this intentional on your part? Will the design be too efficient or potent when doing so?
I put in an enemy figure restriction on Urban Legend to avoid weird Soundwarp-style shenanigans.

CONSISTENCY CHECKLIST (SHORT FORM)

Spoiler Alert!

Consistency Concerns
Name and Identity
Verify character is named in a way that is clear, accurate and feels consistent with the way other characters are named.
All good.
Uniqueness and Type
Verify that the power text reflects the listed uniqueness and type, that the uniqueness fits the character, and that squad size is listed for squads.
All good.
Left Box
Size and Height
Verify that the listed size and height are accurate. Standing the mini up next to a stack of tiles, and a few other minis of various sizes, is encouraged.
TBD once I figure out a mini!
Super Strength and Flying
Verify that these special powers are present if they make sense, and not if they don't.
All good.
New Powers - Names
Verify that any new powers are not using power names identical to, or very similar to, pre-existing powers. Verify that any new powers are actually new and not old powers with new names.
All good. Creature of the Night is closest to Of the Night, but does have a difference.
New Powers - Effects
Verify that the effect and timing of all new powers is clear. Verify that any logical immunities, benefits, or weaknesses (whether those be necessary for thematic or mechanical reasons) are implemented: consider whether defensive powers that work against normal attacks should also work against special attacks, whether or not a power has an elemental component that some figures should resist, and whether or not unliving figures (such as Undead and Androids) should be affected.
All good. I reordered the sentences on Creature of the Night to follow turn order better.
Reused Powers
Verify that the design is reusing powers in place of creating new ones, where reused powers could implement the same theme and mechanics with no differences or only trivial differences. Verify that any reused powers have the correct text.
All good.
Power Level
Verify that the character's movement, attack, range, and defense (in conjunction with any special powers that enhance those stats) feel consistent with the capabilities of characters with analogous powers and abilities. Verify that the character falls into a similar point range to characters with comparative powers and abilities.
All good.

I propose we move to Initial Playtesting.

 

[Soundwarp SG-1]

Re: The Book of Batman (Occult) - VOTE for Initial Playtesti

yea

 

[Arch-vile]

Re: The Book of Batman (Occult) - VOTE for Initial Playtesti

I think the bonding will be too swingy to be too powerful. Looks like a fun design! Definitely a unique bonding mechanism and I hope it makes the JLD work well.

yea

 

[Ronin]

Re: The Book of Batman (Occult) - VOTE for Initial Playtesti

yea

Think some of those commas in OI need to be upgraded to semi-colons. Also gonna stump for that 'no double turns with the same figure' clause.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: The Book of Batman (Occult) - VOTE for Initial Playtesti

yea

Think some of those commas in OI need to be upgraded to semi-colons. Also gonna stump for that 'no double turns with the same figure' clause.

Yeah, I'm good with the no double turns, just how would it be best to word that?

 

[Ronin]

Re: The Book of Batman (Occult) - VOTE for Initial Playtesti

Could just pop it into the 'no extra turns' clause at the end.

You may not take additional turns or activate the same figure more than once.

 

[Arkham]

Re: The Book of Batman (Occult) - VOTE for Initial Playtesti

yea

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: The Book of Batman (Occult) - VOTE for Initial Playtesti

Could just pop it into the 'no extra turns' clause at the end.

You may not take additional turns or activate the same figure more than once.

Thanks! Updated. And this passes.

Found a mini as well (thanks Soundwarp and Karat for the help on Discord). I'll update the mini info in a bit here and get a photo when my TrollandToad order comes in.