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The Book of Batman (Bruce Wayne) (Justice League)

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The Book of Batman (Bruce Wayne) (Justice League)

C3G DC PUBLIC EXCLUSIVE COLLECTION 14
DAWN OF JUSTICE

C3G_Batman-BruceIII_comic.png

Comic PDF

C3G_Batman-BruceIII_mini.png

Mini PDF

The figure used for this unit is a Heroclix figure from the Streets of Gotham set.
Its model number and name are #013, 047 / Batman.​
_________________________________________________________________
Character Bio - After years of fighting to stamp out crime and corruption in Gotham, often concluding in high profile events, Batman became globally known as a respected defender of the people of Gotham. So when threats to the Earth itself arrived, it didn't take long for other heroes on Earth to seek out his help and support in stopping these global threats to humanity. While initially a reluctant member of the Justice League, he came to value the need of such an organization and made several valuable contributions to its success. While not possessing super powers like most of the other members, his tactical mind and dedication to being fully prepared ensured the group would preform together at a high level. Never overly trusting, Batman also used his membership in the League to keep tabs on and learn more about these other 'heroes' of Earth just in case he should ever need to bring one down.
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-Rulings and Clarifications-

  • Q: Can The Brave and the Bold be used to modify a 20-sided die roll for a special power on an Equipment Glyph?
    A: Yes, assuming the figure equipped with the glyph is within clear sight of Batman. There is no constraint requiring the special power to be on a figure's card.
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-Combinations and Synergies-

Incoming Synergy:
Outgoing Synergy:
  • Batman receives one Justice League marker for each Unique Hero you control at the start of the game that is an Archer, Champion, Magician, or Scientist, due to his The Brave And The Bold special power.
  • Batman may use his League Contingency Plan special power to preserve Justice League Markers placed by his The Brave and The Bold special power or other special powers that Place Justice League Markers, when the figure with those markers on its card is destroyed.
Immunities, Benefits, and Weaknesses:
  • As a Batman, Batman may trigger Joker's (I) It's Just Not The Same... special power when he is destroyed.
  • As a figure with a secret identity, Batman interacts differently with these special powers.
  • As a Human, Batman interacts differently with these special powers.
  • As a Champion, Batman interacts differently with these special powers.
_________________________________________________________________

-Strategy, Tactics and Tips-
-Heroscapers Community Contributions-
 
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Re: The Book of Batman (Bruce Wayne) (III)

NAME = BATMAN III
SECRET IDENTITY = BRUCE WAYNE

SPECIES = HUMAN
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = CHAMPION
PERSONALITY = DRIVEN

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 4

MOVE = 6
RANGE = 5
ATTACK = 4
DEFENSE = 5

POINTS = 250

THE BRAVE AND THE BOLD
At the start of the game, place 1 blue Justice League Marker on this card for each Unique Hero you control with the class of Archer, Champion, Magician, or Scientist, to a maximum of 4. After a Unique or Event Hero within clear sight of Batman rolls the 20-sided die for a special power, you may remove 1 Justice League Marker from this card to add or subtract 2 from the roll.

LEAGUE CONTINGENCY PLAN
When an Army Card you control has its last figure destroyed, before removing that figure from the battlefield, you may immediately remove any unrevealed Order Markers from that card and place them on any other card you control. If the destroyed figure has any Justice League Markers on its card, you may place up to X of them on any Army Cards you control, where X equals the number of Justice League Markers on this card.

MASTER MARTIAL ARTIST
When attacking an opponent's adjacent figure with a normal attack, add one automatic skull to whatever is rolled. When defending against a normal attack from an adjacent figure, add one automatic shield to whatever is rolled, and all excess shields count as unblockable hits on the attacking figure.
 
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Re: The Book of Batman (Bruce Wayne) (III)

Alright, what is in the SP is where we last left the design in the JL thread. Lets see how everyone feels about it.

Looking at it again myself, I'm wondering if the initiative bonus shouldn't be +2, at 4 markers that would only be a +8 and then it would drop each time you burn a marker for the d20 boost.

On the OM saving, should we maybe make it so the OM have to go on Batman's card rather then any card in your army? Seems like it would discourage you from attacking a weak figure with an OM on it's card if you know a successful attack will just move the OM to a much stronger figure (like Superman or MM).

Then, one last shot at this, but I'd still love to figure out a different class for him that would still make everyone happy. I know Superman III & MM II already get markers for Vigilantes but since this is the 3rd Batman design we are doing I'd really like to have a laser like focus on the card representing his time with the Justice League and it just doesn't feel like a Justice League design to me if he brings along Alfred, Robin, Batgirl, & Gordon. So any ideas on this front would be welcome.
 
Re: The Book of Batman (Bruce Wayne) (III)

Also, do we have some Art that was found during the previous two designs that we want to use here or should I go looking for some JL specific art for the card? Any opinions on what mini we want to use for this one? Background ideas for that mini?
 
Re: The Book of Batman (Bruce Wayne) (III)

I'll look up some fitting art.

As for Vigilante...man, I feel like losing Vigilante at this point would really throw a wrench in the fact that we have Vigilante on Martian Manhunter and Superman. Especially in Superman's case, it'd feel rather pointless. The only other thing I could think of for Batman would be Detective, which I'm ok with, but unless we at least change Superman III's synergy to Detective, I don't really want it changed. In doing so though, then you're enforcing that Superman III would only work with Batman III and not Batman I or II, and Martian Manhunter would work with Batman I and II and not III.

I understand why you don't want him as a Vigilante, but at the same time, is him being a Vigilante really hurting the Justice League synergy in any way? 2 of his powers depend on being teamed with non-Vigilantes, which don't include any of those figures you listed. You'll be wasting his init. bonus and d20 roll boost if you aren't teaming him up with the 4 classes listed. So I feel like putting him with Sidekicks, Alfred, Gordon etc. is a waste of your own points, and a non-ideal build. So I don't see it as that necessary to change here.

If we go with 4 markers, a +2 to init. seems appropriate per marker. So I'm cool with that.
 
Re: The Book of Batman (Bruce Wayne) (III)

Digging the SP as is. I'd be OK with the +2 for initiative. I don't think you're eager to bring Robin and gang along with him, because your first focus is getting those markers. And in larger games, you're gonna want to pair him with Supes and Martian Manhunter. Him plus enough figures to get his four markers isn't going to leave a lot of room for others, though, and if 160 points gets added with Robin and Alfred after Aquaman, Green Arrow, Flash, and Atom are already along for the ride, it still feels pretty Justice League to me.
 
Re: The Book of Batman (Bruce Wayne) (III)

Just getting the 4 we had in mind, would cost:
Spoiler Alert!


All in all, I'd say the Vigilante + Sidekicks + Alfred & Gordon play is not ideal here. This Batman will be best teamed with d20 rollers that fit within those classes, as well as his fellow Justice League marker buddies in bigger games, which is where he'll shine most. Once Cyborg II is created, he'll have another great option that you'll definitely want, and he'll likely come with a ~230 point cost, which he'll want Red Tornado for himself as well.

I think a natural army down the line, in lower point games, will be:

Batman III & Cyborg II + (Atom, Zatanna, Aquaman I, Green Arrow etc.)

Cyborg gets his group at height advantage/ideal placement in round 1, which really helps Batman, Aquaman, and Green Arrow.

Basically, I don't think the pairings you are concerned about will be the pairings Batman III benefits most from.

1 option I'd be open to, is Champion. He'd still be covered by Martian Manhunter and Superman, as well as his first 2 versions. It'd also cut all the synergy ties you don't want included. We could just make all the Justice League marker starting characters have the class of Champion, as they are filling that role with these versions.
 
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Heads Up

The better you make that initiative roll, the more Joker wants to come play.

~Dysole, noting that really as long as you make it no better than Heimdall you should be fine (although I can see someone trying Robot, Joker (I), Bats (III), Ant-man, Atom, and then whoever else they want to add from the synergy web (Floronic Man, Aquaman (II), Zatanna, and Hawkeye (II) seem like some of the best options off the top of my head))
 
Re: The Book of Batman (Bruce Wayne) (III)

As for art, it is worth pointing out we have a running theme with Martian Manhunter and Superman in similar poses:

1433649-martian_manhunter.jpg
8557313.jpg


So naturally something like these:
dc-comics-batman-forever.jpg
1614133-batman__1940__608a_super.png


Ultimately, I think an action/striking pose is best, as this Batman will be more combative, and the two previous versions just had Batman standing/walking.

Some other options:
2302929-arkhamcity1cover.jpg
DTC8_COV_color.jpg
 
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Re: The Book of Batman (Bruce Wayne) (III)

I'd consider bumping the first clause of Tactical Strategist into Brave and the Bold. Tactical Strategist reads a bit strangely to me with 3 totally separate things going on.
 
Re: Heads Up

Dysole said:
The better you make that initiative roll, the more Joker wants to come play.

~Dysole, noting that really as long as you make it no better than Heimdall you should be fine (although I can see someone trying Robot, Joker (I), Bats (III), Ant-man, Atom, and then whoever else they want to add from the synergy web (Floronic Man, Aquaman (II), Zatanna, and Hawkeye (II) seem like some of the best options off the top of my head))
Click to expand...

Aquaman II is a Warrior.

We could always throw in:

"When rolling for initiative, if at least one Order Marker is on this card, you may add 1 to your roll for each Justice League marker on this card."

That'd help deter the Joker and Robot combos, as you're taking up 2-3 Order Markers just to get that to work. Also, the Joker combo is a bit questionable as-is, as Batman's initiative boost will be getting worse each time he burns a marker, and if Batman dies, Joker loses all his powers and lowers his Attack and Defense by 1.

THE BRAVE AND THE BOLD
At the start of the game, place 1 white Justice League marker on this card for each Unique Hero you control with the class of Archer, King, Magician or Scientist, to a maximum of 4. When rolling for initiative, if at least one Order Marker is on this card, you may add 1 to your roll for each Justice League marker on this card.

TACTICAL STRATEGIST
When a figure you control within clear sight of Batman is destroyed, you may immediately remove any unrevealed Order Markers and place them on any other card you control. Once per turn, after a Unique Hero you control within clear sight of Batman rolls the 20-sided die, you may remove 1 Justice League marker from this card to add 1 to that roll, or 3 to that roll if the figure is an Archer, King, Magician, or Scientist.

MASTER MARTIAL ARTIST
When attacking an opponent's adjacent figure with a normal attack, add one automatic skull to whatever is rolled. When defending against a normal attack from an adjacent figure, add one automatic shield to whatever is rolled, and all excess shields count as unblockable hits on the attacking figure.
 
Re: The Book of Batman (Bruce Wayne) (III)

TACTICAL STRATEGIST
When rolling for initiative, you may add 1 to your roll for each Justice League marker on this card. When a figure you control is destroyed, you may immediately remove any unrevealed Order Markers and place them on any other card you control. Once per turn, after a Unique Hero you control within clear sight of Batman rolls the 20-sided die, you may remove 1 Justice League marker from this card to add 1 to that roll, or 3 to that roll if the figure is an Archer, King, Magician, or Scientist.
Click to expand...

When you remove any unrevealed OM's, does that mean any opponent's OM's as well as your own?

I'm trying to tie it in with having a figure you control getting destroyed, and it would seem that the theme of that would allow you to remove any unrevealed OM's from the destroyed figure's card. But the way it currently reads to me, is that your figure getting destroyed is a trigger to allow you to either move your own unrevealed OM's around, or steal them from an opponent and put them on an army card you control.

What's the intent?
 
Re: The Book of Batman (Bruce Wayne) (III)

It's the same as Contingency Plan, the wording must have gotten messed up when things were changed:

CONTINGENCY PLAN
While Oracle is in play, when an Army Card you control has all of its figures destroyed, you may immediately remove any unrevealed Order Markers from that card and place them on any other card you control.

TACTICAL STRATEGIST
When an Army Card you control has all of its figures destroyed, you may immediately remove any unrevealed Order Markers from that card and place them on any other card you control. Once per turn, after a Unique Hero you control within clear sight of Batman rolls the 20-sided die, you may remove 1 Justice League marker from this card to add 1 to that roll, or 3 to that roll if the figure is an Archer, King, Magician, or Scientist.
 
Re: The Book of Batman (Bruce Wayne) (III)

Cool. I figured that's how it should be and wanted to comment to make sure that's how it was supposed to be. :)
 
Re: The Book of Batman (Bruce Wayne) (III)

Honestly, I think if any Batman should be needing to bring his equipment along for the ride, it's this guy. I'm just not seeing Batman going around with the Justice League without so much as a Bat Grapple or an Explosive Batarang (which still need to be designed, but still). Honestly, I'd up his attack by one, ditch MMA and give him Utility Belt, otherwise that's something pretty big that's completely missing. It's a shame this one then won't have any counterstriking power, but I do think this is important.

Also, I really get where you're coming from with the D20 boost, but nothing about it screams Batman to me - instead it just feels like a mechanic that you want the JL to have that's been forced onto Batman because someone had to have it. I'd honestly look to see if there's anyone else in the Justice League who could be given that sort of power, and give Batman something different - something that gives a feeling of this being Batman, the same way Telepathic League Link feels like Martian Manhunter and Symbol of Justice feels like Superman. Maybe something to do with exploiting your opponents weaknesses? That's something generally considered fairly iconic that hasn't been represented that much on Batman before. I'm concerned this may be too powerful, but maybe something along these lines?

Once per round, if Batman or a Unique Hero you control within clear sight of Batman targets an opponent's figure, you may remove one Justice League Marker from this card. If you do, the defending figure rolls one fewer defence die against that attack and, if the attacking figure is Batman or an Archer, King, Magician or Scientist, may not use any special powers on its Army Card for the duration of that attack.

I think there should probably be some other way to limit it, as I don't think Batman should be able to just crush Spider-Man or a Lantern too easily or often, but you get the idea.

~ Lazy Orang, who doesn't even like Batman but who still wants to see the best design possible. :)
 
Re: The Book of Batman (Bruce Wayne) (III)

The general direction seems good. I have no opinion on the class thing, but I do want to see an OM requirement for the initiative boost, and I'd prefer to see the D20 boosting part of Tactical Strategist moved to the Brave and the Bold, to keep the class-based effects together (leave the initiative boost and the OM safety in Tactical Strategist). Also, could we change the name of Tactical Strategist to something like League Strategist? As-is it has a very generic and reusable name, but the power won't be reusable at all.
 
Re: The Book of Batman (Bruce Wayne) (III)

Lazy Orang said:
Honestly, I think if any Batman should be needing to bring his equipment along for the ride, it's this guy. I'm just not seeing Batman going around with the Justice League without so much as a Bat Grapple or an Explosive Batarang (which still need to be designed, but still). Honestly, I'd up his attack by one, ditch MMA and give him Utility Belt, otherwise that's something pretty big that's completely missing. It's a shame this one then won't have any counterstriking power, but I do think this is important.
Click to expand...
If you want Batman with a Utility Belt, a Counter Strike, and 5 attack, we have one of those already. As for the Utility Belt itself, unless we get a plethora of new Utility Belt Gadgets to use, I don't want another Batman centered around them. Batman II was designed around those, and he already fills that style of play if that's your thing. There's no reason to repeat that here, especially when you can use Batman I/II with the likes of Martian Manhunter II and Superman III and he'll add to their markers thus making those versions viable.

Lazy Orang said:
Also, I really get where you're coming from with the D20 boost, but nothing about it screams Batman to me - instead it just feels like a mechanic that you want the JL to have that's been forced onto Batman because someone had to have it. I'd honestly look to see if there's anyone else in the Justice League who could be given that sort of power, and give Batman something different - something that gives a feeling of this being Batman, the same way Telepathic League Link feels like Martian Manhunter and Symbol of Justice feels like Superman.
Click to expand...
The theme behind it is that Batman prepares his team strategically and tactfully to be on their A game. The d20 boost is in a sense showing how he brings out the best in his team, thus getting more out of them. It means Green Arrow is going to know where to hit his enemy using his Precise Shot to get the best results. It means Aquaman is going to more efficiently heal his team. Zatanna will have practiced her spell effectiveness. Firestorm keeps control of his Matrix through greater willpower and focus. So on and so forth. Batman is known to be one of the greatest at tactics, analysis, prep, focus, willpower, and strategy. He's merely demanding that of his teammates here, and doing all he can to help prepare them. IMO, that feels very much like Batman, and is a solid thematic execution of that. Initiative boost, d20 boost, and Order Marker flexibility encompass those qualities.

Martian Manhunter = Mental support.
Superman = Physical/Defensive support.
Batman = Strategy/Tactical support.
Cyborg = Transportation support.

These are all thematic roles they play within the Justice League.

Sure, we could give Batman a defense lowering aspect as an alternative way to show field tactics, but you have to ask yourself if that's something you really want balance wise, included on someone who is going to be commonly teamed up with those with attacks of 6-8, especially so when Martian Manhunter is getting you a double turn once per round, and Cyborg will have your team at height advantage to start. I think I'd rather take my chances up against the d20 roll boost. The defensive power negation isn't necessary when you have Wonder Woman as a team staple.
 
Re: The Book of Batman (Bruce Wayne) (III)

Yeah, to me it's kind of like a coach in the NFL where they're calling up a scripted play, and the team tends to execute it better because they've practiced it so many times. They'll have to call the plays on the fly for most of the game, but those few scripted plays tend to go a lot more smoothly. Here, Batman would have four such "scripted plays" which feels super thematic for stories of Batman leading a task force from the Justice League.

I agree with Viegon's comments as well in terms of tweaks. I think this one should be fairly smooth sailing. :up:

Also, when it comes to the Utility Belt here, I get it, but I view it similarly to Man of Steel on Superman III. It's been done already. We don't have to do it every time (and we shouldn't!).
 
Re: The Book of Batman (Bruce Wayne) (III)

Since MMA is restricted to melee attacks anyway, I think it would be interesting to give him a range of 4 or 5 to represent his Bat-a-rangs. That way you still at least get a little of the Bat-gadget feel to him. Goes with the 'tactics guy' thing too, since you would actually have choices to make when taking a turn with him instead of just running right into combat all the time.
 
Re: The Book of Batman (Bruce Wayne) (III)

That's a reasonable idea. With an attack of 4, 5 with height, I think it's reasonable to think him throwing a special type of Batarang, or just 3 at the same time, could amount to an attack of 4-5. It's at least worth considering giving him a range of 3-4.
 
Re: The Book of Batman (Bruce Wayne) (III)

Yea, a Range if 5 here would make sense.
 
Re: The Book of Batman (Bruce Wayne) (III)

Agreed with Range 5. :up:

Honestly, I don't recall Batman bat-grappling a whole lot when he's hanging out with the Justice League. Usually another member carries him (which GL John Stewart or Superman III could easily do).
 
Re: The Book of Batman (Bruce Wayne) (III)

And Cyborg II can get him setup at the start of the game. So it's not like his movement is going to really suffer.
 
Re: The Book of Batman (Bruce Wayne) (III)

With a range of 5, his base stats point wise will add up to 135. Meaning his specials will come in around 115.

Using Oracle's points as comparison, her base stats add up to 50 points, which means her specials add up to 60. Contingency Plan and Initiative boost likely take up ~30 of those points, so Batman's will be similar. That brings him up to ~165.

Psylocke's base stats bring her up to 105, which means her Psychic Knife, MMA, and Superstrength add up to 145. Karate Kid's stats bring him to 60, 90 after adding flying. That means his Super Karate, MMA, and Mental Shield add up to 140. Shang-Chi is at 75 after stats, meaning his Phantom Walk, Master of Kung Fu, and MMA add up to 155. Gamora is at 130 after stats, which means MMA, Godslayer, Healing, and Superstrength adds up to 180.

I'd say it's safe to value MMA at around 65 points. Which will put Batman up to 230. This would mean his marker burn, including the max of 4 per game, each burn lessening his initiative, and it being a +1 for most figures, would come in around 20-30 points. I'd say 30 points is a fair topping point, bringing Batman III in at a likely 260.
 
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