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The Book of Ant-Man (Scott Lang)

Lazy Orang

Hard as ice
The Book of Ant-Man (Scott Lang)

C3G MARVEL PUBLIC EXCLUSIVE COLLECTION 16
RULING THE RABBLE


C3G_AntMan-Scott_comic.png

Comic PDF

C3G_AntMan-Scott_mini.png

Mini PDF

The figure used for this unit is a Heroclix figure from the Age of Ultron set.
Its model number and name are #003 / Ant-Man.

The figure used for this unit is a Heroclix figure from the Age of Ultron: Classic Avengers Fast Forces set.
Its model number and name are #001 / Ant-Man.

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Character Bio - Years after Hank Pym hung up his Ant-Man suit for good, former petty crook Scott Lang stole the suit from Pym's home. Rather than using it for profit, Scott used its powers to save his daughter Cassie, and put an end to the schemes of Darren Cross, a ruthless industrialist and would-be supervillain. Scott impressed Pym enough that he was allowed to keep the suit, and he became the second Ant-Man. As Ant-Man, Scott is a frequent member of the Avengers, striving always to be someone his daughter could be proud of.
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-Rulings and Clarifications-
  • N/A
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-Combinations and Synergies-

Incoming Synergy:Outgoing Synergy:
  • Ant-Man may activate an Insect Hero with his Amateur Insect Control special power. Current Insects.
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-Immunities, Benefits, and Weaknesses-

Immunities

Benefits
Weaknesses

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-Strategy, Tactics and Tips-
  • N/A
-Heroscapers Community Contributions-
 
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NAME = ANT-MAN
SECRET IDENTITY = SCOTT LANG

SPECIES = HUMAN
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = THIEF
PERSONALITY = TRICKY
SIZE/HEIGHT = TINY 2

LIFE = 3
MOVE = 5
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 3
DEFENCE = 4


POINTS = 80

INSECT CONTROL 1
Before taking a turn with Ant-Man, you may first take a turn with a Common Insect Hero you control.

SMALL BUT MIGHTY
Figures that are not tiny roll 2 fewer dice when attacking Ant-Man with a normal attack, to a minimum of 1 die, and roll 2 fewer dice when attacked by Ant-Man's normal attack.

TINY THIEF
Ant-Man cannot be targeted by opponents' non-adjacent figures for any attacks or for any opponents' special powers that require clear sight, can move through all figures, and only takes leaving engagement attacks from tiny figures. Ant-Man never takes falling damage and may ignore his height of 2 when climbing. After moving and before attacking, if there is not a glyph on this card, you may choose a figure that Ant-Man moved through this turn with at least one Equipment Glyph on its card and place a glyph from that card on this card.

Original Design:
Spoiler Alert!
 
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Comic
Spoiler Alert!


Mini
Spoiler Alert!


Background
Spoiler Alert!
 
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Okay, I just wanted to post a quick rundown of some of my thought processes with this design:

1) He has Amateur Insect Control off Eric because he thematically needed to be able to do it, but giving him full Radio Insect Control from Hank would have cheapened Hank’s role as the primary Insect commander, something I was unwilling to do, especially since Hank is the original and, to many people (though not myself), still most iconic, Ant-Man.

2) Small but Mighty is intended to be this guy’s signature power, my attempt at giving him a role that’s distinct and different from the other Ant-Men available. Hank’s, as I said, the insect commander, Eric’s the flying, disappearing irritant with Agent synergies, so with Scott, I wanted to explore a direction the other Ant-Men haven’t yet - namely, I wanted to represent the combat potential afforded to him by his tiny size, how it makes him hard to see coming, tricky to hit, and how it allowing him to put his full strength into a punch on a point the size of a pin prick makes him a surprisingly effective fighter. As such, opponents roll 2 fewer attack and defence dice against him - he is, basically, the combat Ant-Man, and hopefully a fairly useful filler unit.

3) Tiny Thief, as well as incorporating Tiny Stealth, is meant to represent one of the more distinct differences in his role and character from the other Ant-Men - the fact that he is, well, a Thief. As such, he is able, like Black Cat, to steal glyphs from enemy figures he passes through. I didn’t want to make this his main thing, which is definitely Small but Mighty, as I don’t want him to feel restricted to matches where someone’s carrying a glyph or there’s one on the board, but it should hopefully be a helpful, fun and thematic touch in those matchups.

4) His class is Thief for fairly obvious reasons, given Point 3. :) This will give him synergy with Amanda Waller and the Crime Alley Crooks (and Ventriloquist, but... yeah, no). I don’t mind these synergies in the least, in fact I like them (given the fact that he was a former master thief who was given the choice to be Ant-Man by Hank as a last chance to redeem himself, I don’t feel him being drafted into the Suicide Squad is too far out there) but I don’t want him to feel like his Thief synergies are necessary or fundamental to playing him effectively - if the Suicide Squad is a fun and viable build for him then that’s great, but I don’t want it to be at the expense of seeing him run with the Avengers, which is honestly the primary build I have in mind for him. I doubt this will be the case, especially given that Amateur Insect Control requires you to reveal an OM on his card to use it, but I thought I should clarify my thoughts on his synergies.

With that said, I know he’s not ready to undergo any official playtesting yet, and I know that I’m not allowed to do the initial playtesting anyway, but I ran an unofficial, preliminary test for him a few weeks ago and thought it might be helpful to post it. :)

Name Of The Playtest Unit: Ant-Man (Scott Lang)


Preliminary Test
Map: Conflict Chernobyl (no glyphs)
Armies:
Ant-Man (Scott Lang) (70 points), Captain America (C3G), Bucky, Iron Man (Hulkbuster), Giant Man, 3x Killer Bee, 4x Fire Ant Swarm (995)
vs.
Red Skull (C3G), 2x Hydra Agents, Black Adam, Titanium Man (1,000)

Spoiler Alert!
 
As far as your mini background idea...My son actually has a wooden Thomas set so maybe I can set it up for a few photos. I love the comic art with the bullets flying. Great suggestion.

The only thing that's worrisome for me is that with the class of Thief he will be caught up in that synergy web which will be expanded. I don't know if I'd classify his Avenger's self to be a thief and his power get the theme and utility of his skill as a thief across just fine. Of course I don't have an alternate idea yet.
 
Perhaps:

SMALL BUT MIGHTY
Figures that are not Tiny subtract 2 from their attack dice when attacking Ant-Man, to a minimum of 1, and subtract 2 from their defense dice when attacked by Ant-Man with an adjacent normal attack.
 
As far as your mini background idea...My son actually has a wooden Thomas set so maybe I can set it up for a few photos. I love the comic art with the bullets flying. Great suggestion.
That would actually be awesome if you could - my one worry with doing something based on that scene was just finding an appropriate still, and that would fix that issue if it is one, so thanks for the offer. :)

The only thing that's worrisome for me is that with the class of Thief he will be caught up in that synergy web which will be expanded. I don't know if I'd classify his Avenger's self to be a thief and his power get the theme and utility of his skill as a thief across just fine. Of course I don't have an alternate idea yet.
Yeah, if we have a better idea and think it's necessary to cut Thief, then we can. Personally, I like it, and I don't really think it or its synergies are weirder here than on, for example, Gambit, but if others disagree or it gets in the way of Avengers-style builds, I can see it changing.

Perhaps:

SMALL BUT MIGHTY
Figures that are not Tiny subtract 2 from their attack dice when attacking Ant-Man, to a minimum of 1, and subtract 2 from their defense dice when attacked by Ant-Man with an adjacent normal attack.

Thanks - that's pretty much exactly what I was hoping to do. Glad to see you don't feel the need to give a minimum defence - I quite like unboosted HYDRA Agents being unable to defend against him. :)
 
Just a few comments on formatting in the SP, whatever is put there is copy and pasted by the art team when making the card so it is important to have the format correct or you are asking the art team to do the formatting for you. All capital letters for the power names with no underline, no underline on the name to size section. Stuff like that, just look at a released card to see what needs to be what.

As for the design, are we married to 1 life here because Hank & Janet were both 1 life on their first cards? If this is suppose to be the 'combat' Ant-man, I could see going to 2 or 3 life.

On the test you ran, it looks like you never bonded with the ants. Did they end up having an impact on the game at all as a result? That would factor into the final results some if you were essentially playing down 45 points. Also how did you compute extra wounds and wounds blocked by small but mighty? The power has you roll less dice so you wouldn't really know how many wounds you avoided unless you rolled the lost dice later just to see what they would have been. Is that what you did here?
 
Just a few comments on formatting in the SP, whatever is put there is copy and pasted by the art team when making the card so it is important to have the format correct or you are asking the art team to do the formatting for you. All capital letters for the power names with no underline, no underline on the name to size section. Stuff like that, just look at a released card to see what needs to be what.

Fixed.

As for the design, are we married to 1 life here because Hank & Janet were both 1 life on their first cards? If this is suppose to be the 'combat' Ant-man, I could see going to 2 or 3 life.
I'm not really married to it, and I could definitely see dropping his defence by 1 and bumping his Life to 2 or 3 - whichever way people think would work best, if other people aren't bugged by the inconsistency with the other Ant-Men. I guess Wasp II makes that inconsistency consistent. :)

On the test you ran, it looks like you never bonded with the ants. Did they end up having an impact on the game at all as a result? That would factor into the final results some if you were essentially playing down 45 points.
Scott never had reason to bond with them since the Bee seemed a better choice at every stage. The Ants were still a help however, since they were able to use their Swarm Tunnel to engage and tie down enemy forces, which is honestly how I usually use them anyway - think a poor man's Deathreavers.
Also how did you compute extra wounds and wounds blocked by small but mighty? The power has you roll less dice so you wouldn't really know how many wounds you avoided unless you rolled the lost dice later just to see what they would have been. Is that what you did here?
Yeah, that's what I did - just rolled the dice to see how it changed what happened. Thought it would be helpful for the sake of the test-sheet.
 
Make sure to send a PM to all the Heroes. I believe a post in the Promotions thread is standard as well. Otherwise, good work on your first unit thread!

As for the design, I love it! I am worried about Thief synergies driving too much of his cost/builds, but I'm willing to tweak that as we go. Same with Life of 1. I could see it higher, but I'm also fine where it's at now.
 
As for the design, I love it! I am worried about Thief synergies driving too much of his cost/builds, but I'm willing to tweak that as we go. Same with Life of 1. I could see it higher, but I'm also fine where it's at now.

:word: to this. Really solid direction here.

Personally, I actually wouldn't go for Thief. Not a deal-breaker, but I feel like Tiny Thief gets enough of that flavor across, since Scott is more ex-thief than thief. He does pull from his thieving skill-set in superheroing, but he doesn't go and rob a casino on his day off (whereas the other relatively heroic Thieves like Black Cat and Gambit absolutely do stuff like that).
 
I like the design. :up:

I agree with switching to a different class; Tiny Thief gets the theme there, no need to stick him with Thief synergy. I'd prefer to keep with 1 Life here, but I'm not opposed to bumping it up. Arkham's wording suggestion looks good; we'll definitely need the minimum of 1 wording in there for the attack dice subtraction.
 
Okay, looks like we're staying with 1 Life for now, but it seems the general consensus would be to go with a different class. I'm okay with this - I thought that the Suicide Squad synergy would be oddly fun and fitting, but it's not something I'm really hung up on, especially since I primarily want to see him in Avengers' style builds anyway. The one thing now is what to change the class to - I've heard a lot of opposition to Thief, but haven't really heard any alternatives proposed so far. Honestly, I don't know what else I'd give him (my one other thought would be Protege, but I'm not sure if you guys would be happy with the JSA synergy), so I'd love to hear some suggestions! :)
 
Engineer? Avenger? Ex-Con?
Engineer... I'm not familiar with this guy from the comics, but there's nothing about him that seems to scream Engineer to me - this guy isn't Tony Stark or Steel, he's not iconically Engineering things, as far as I know.

Avenger, I honestly prefer to avoid, given that the vast majority of Avengers don't have the class Avenger. Unless I'm missing something, the only ones I can think of are Iron Man MKII (who got that class seemingly as a nod to that incarnation bearing the Golden Avenger nickname) and Vision (who, checking his book, seemed to get it due to the rationale that he's never been anything else, alongside referenced plans for Captain America that, by the sound of what was being said, were later radically changed to work with Markers rather than a class). He may be Avenger, but that seems like an odd class to give this Avenger when much more iconic members like Cap, most iterations of Stark and Thor aren't.

Ex-Con, though technically correct, I'm not really feeling - it seems an odd class to add this late in the game when I'm sure it fits for a lot of other characters who don't get it, and it only really tells me what he was, not what he is.

This is certainly a tricky one, when you discount Thief. Honestly, I actually do want to make sure whether or not Protege is off the table, as the more I think about it, the more I like it and the more fitting it seems. In fact, that's where my present leaning is, here. :shrug:
 
I'd say Protege is squarely off the table. Weird synergies, and it doesn't fit the comics version of the character at all.
 
I'd say Protege is squarely off the table. Weird synergies, and it doesn't fit the comics version of the character at all.
Fair enough, but that still kind of leaves me with a blank.

Yeah, I'm still trying to come up with something that threads the needle here. :lol:

I still like Ex-Con; not trying to get any synergy going for it, not too worried about other people not having it.

I could see him as an Adventurer (he's got strong FF ties), but I'm not sure if that's something you want to loop in here.
 
I would think Adventure would drive his cost up considerably. :(

What are you thinking L_O?
 
You know, I'm honestly a bit baffled as to why it's apparently C3G policy to deny actually having cards work together. Like he'd have some synergy with a few units it kind of makes some sense for him to have a little synergy with, which would have almost no impact on if he has any value in an Avengers build... but that's just too crazy? So instead he'll probably end up with some one-off class like 'former-bandit' or some such... just to make him less interesting? It seems like reinventing the wheel for the sake of doing it to me, I guess I just don't see the concern.
 
I tend to agree with you here Soundwarp SG-1.

I think the concern comes in the costing associated with certain synergy webs.

If the LD is cool with the design absorbing the costs I am for it.
 
I don't agree that Thief synergies really makes sense for him, and throwing a 100% heroic character into the class just makes it weird whenever anyone tries to use it as a villainous class down the line. :shrug:

I guess I just haven't read a lot of comics where Scott teams up with a bunch of random crooks to beat someone up in an alley.

EDIT: I guess my beef with Thief here is that I feel like C3G 'Thief' kind of has morality written into it going by the units we've used it on and the synergies we've given it. Also, from my reading, Scott's thieving days were pretty much behind him once he became Ant-Man.

Again, not really a deal-breaker for me, but I never had a nitpick I wasn't willing to die on a hill over.
 
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I mean, he's pretty much the type of hero that would have done a stint on the Suicide Squad back in the day (he sort of did considering Atom 3 was on the team for a bit), and he did have three regular thief buddies as back-up in Ant-Man: the Motion Picture... so it's not that crazy. I'd say the ship has already sailed a bit on Thief being a 'oh, he's a bad bad man!' class anyway, though I admit I've never understood the point of sort-of-sometimes having 'good' and 'bad' classes anyway.

Mostly though, not having him as a Thief seems... Quixotic almost? Like he was the star of Ant-Man: The Film, which is a straight up heist film that happens to have superhero tights on. The movies are the part of Marvel that actually matter, if he isn't 'the theify ant-man' in the comics yet, he's probably going to be soon.
 
I tend to agree with you here Soundwarp SG-1.

I think the concern comes in the costing associated with certain synergy webs.

If the LD is cool with the design absorbing the costs I am for it.

It's not about absorbing the cost. My long standing issue is that we have on occasion create a card where the cost was completely based on non-thematic team-up. so much so that they aren't worth their point in the desired builds. For competitive guys that could care less about themematics it's not an issue and sure lots of times it's not enough points to matter. I'd just like to avoid these situations as much as possible. Since he's an Avenger and there is no limit on who Avenger's markers go on his class doesn't matter their.

To soundwarp's point about him teaming up with thieves in the movie...well, once he was Ant-Man he wasn't stealing anything.

As for alternatives...

Engineer, or something that lets him work with the F4 since other than Iron man/Avengers his biggest team-ups have been with them.
 
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