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The Book of 4th Massachusetts Line

4th can be defeated with specialized army

I play tested (10) games using 4th mass and they lost 8 times out of 10. I think it was the support that the Abrien Archers had or the support that the 4th did not. Still the 4th can be overrun.

3x 4th Mass
Sgt Drake Alexander
Finn
Thorogrim
All Valiant at 595 points?

3X Aubrien Archers
1x Onyx Vipers
1x Arnoc Vipers
1x Veonc Warlord
600 points?

Map was relatively flat with forrest north and centrally bridged river overlooked by two hills.

The first game the 4th Mass won. Then I realized tactical errors made with Arnoc Vipers (I actually used them).

Then (4) games of Onyx Vipers seizing all 8 glyphs without being touched. Then the AA frenzy and seize glyphs to free up onyx who close and desimate first 4th squad.

Then the 4th Mass win with SDA being sole survivor after one of the 4th revive him using a close glyph. Unusually low frenzy occurances.

I realized the true power of the frenzy and range 7 for the next (4) games and swept the Jandarians with the Armocs and Venocs and a squad of AA intact.

Note I was very aggressive with the onyx and they always were destroyed but usually got their licks in and got almost all of the glyphs no matter how close to the Jandarian side the glyphs were.

Does anyone have any other ideas with the play test prior to breaking the board down? I am unsure if the Viper and AA army can challenge much else.
 
Re: 4th can be defeated with specialized army

SME said:
I play tested (10) games using 4th mass and they lost 8 times out of 10. I think it was the support that the Abrien Archers had or the support that the 4th did not. Still the 4th can be overrun.

3x 4th Mass
Sgt Drake Alexander
Finn
Thorogrim
All Valiant at 595 points?

3X Aubrien Archers
1x Onyx Vipers
1x Arnoc Vipers
1x Veonc Warlord
600 points?

Map was relatively flat with forrest north and centrally bridged river overlooked by two hills.

The first game the 4th Mass won. Then I realized tactical errors made with Arnoc Vipers (I actually used them).

Then (4) games of Onyx Vipers seizing all 8 glyphs without being touched. Then the AA frenzy and seize glyphs to free up onyx who close and desimate first 4th squad.

Then the 4th Mass win with SDA being sole survivor after one of the 4th revive him using a close glyph. Unusually low frenzy occurances.

I realized the true power of the frenzy and range 7 for the next (4) games and swept the Jandarians with the Armocs and Venocs and a squad of AA intact.

Note I was very aggressive with the onyx and they always were destroyed but usually got their licks in and got almost all of the glyphs no matter how close to the Jandarian side the glyphs were.

Does anyone have any other ideas with the play test prior to breaking the board down? I am unsure if the Viper and AA army can challenge much else.
How could the valiant be 595, there are no amounts of 5 points. It is 480 or 540 depending on which Drake you used. The Audrien/Viper one is 495 points. So, one army must have had an advantage. :wink:
 
585 perhaps?

Sgt. Drake Alexander 110
Sir Gilbert 105
Finn the Viking Champion 80
Thorgrim the Viking Champion 80
4th Massachusettes Linex3 210
 
I did not have my calculator with me. That is why I had ? after. I think the Ullar forces are overcalculated also. The numbers s/b 480 for Jandar and 495 for Ullar. Not sure 15 points is really an advantage or just a rounding off.

I did not use Sir Gilbert but will try him out and replacing the viking heroes with the templar cav to use as menacers.

Will add the Venoc Vipers so that it will be Ullar 535 vs Jandar 545.
 
No, no, no, you've got it all wrong.
Sir Gilbert really doesn't do much for the Minutemen unless you use the Knights of Weston. If you really want to face them off against the Viper Army, I suggest:
4th Massx3
Sir Gilbert
Knights of Westonx2
Eldgrim
OR
4th Massx4
Charos
Both of these armies have the Valiant Bonus (the second should NOT have Isamu) and can eat the Onyx for breakfast.
 
The question that's been bugging me the last few days is "What's the best thing to bring with these guys?"

Knights of Weston+Gilbert/Vikings or Alastair? It keeps the Valiant bonus and gives you a tough bonding squad, but can be somewhat pricey and hard to fit in most point totals.

Marcus and Roman Legos? Although you lose the defense, extra movement can be extremely useful for gaining map control, and if you're going to be using interference anyway, what does the defense of the mass really matter? Also, these guys are cheaper than the Knights, and their bonding options are more varied.

Nilfheim? He breaks up the bonus too, but has a very strong special and normal attack, giving you a way to kill nakitas, gorillinators, ninjas, and even Q9.

Brunak? Neo did it. It can't be all bad.

AE or Raelin? See above.

Marcu? Although he breaks up the Valiant bonus, he can be invaluable as a glyph defender. If he betrays you, so what? You just lost one mass guy.

Kyntela Gwyn and/or Eldgrim? They're the only way to spend 20, 30, or 50 points of Valiant. Too bad the 4th mass aren't elves.

Sentinels? Clearly, this works pretty well. Shields of Valor is quite possibly the best defensive ability in the game, and these guys don't break up the Valiant bonus.

Drake II? New Drake gives a pretty nice heavy hitter, and he's valiant. He only attacks once per turn, but you can always just take a turn with the Mass instead.

Charos? Similar to sentinels, but it puts more of your eggs in one big counterstriking basket.

What do you guys like best? Am I overlooking something?
 
sentenial idea looks good. the sheild of valor is pretty good and you get a group that can fly to grab hight for the fourth mass.
 
A couple more options...

I really liked spider_poison's Alastair + Eldgrim combo, giving you a good early game glyph grabber, and the extra move is really good on Alastair, who can make use of it twice in one turn (once per round).

Captain America is obviously amazing if you're allowing Marvel.

Also, don't discount Saylind. This Kyrie is Valiant as well, and has the ability to move a 4th Mass soldier to height quickly without giving up Wait then Fire. Granted it's only one, but nonetheless...

There are also the Templar Knights, who are Valiant and can rush out from behind the 4th Mass to engage the enemy. I'm not a big fan of the Templar though....

My gut tells me the best ones are Alastair, Charos or Sentinels. I do want to try 6x 4th Mass and Saylind once though.
 
I like these two armies

This one is Revdyer's
2x Sentinals of jandar-220
4x 4th Mass line-280

This one is just a fun one to play!
Saylind-80
2x 4th Mass line-140
2x MacDirk Warriors- 160
Alastair MacDirk-110
When Alastair gets into trouble summon him with Saylind.
 
Shades fan said:
I like these two armies

This one is Revdyer's
2x Sentinals of jandar-220
4x 4th Mass line-280

This one is just a fun one to play!
Saylind-80
2x 4th Mass line-140
2x MacDirk Warriors- 160
Alastair MacDirk-110
When Alastair gets into trouble summon him with Saylind.

The real advantage of mine is that you don't have to be very smart to play it successfully. <grin>
 
gamjuven said:
NFCfan said:
6x 4th mass + raelin is a good army, even if you lose 1 4th mass due to starting zone restrictions

Eh, I don't like having raelin in my 4th mass armies. Having that valiant bonus is too good a thing to pass up for 1 more measly defense die on a couple of figures
I agree completely, gamejuven. It is not just the all army bonus you lose, but the order markers that you have to put on Raelin also detract from what the 4th can do.
 
Wait a second, how come 4th Mass have 5 move? When I think of Revolutionary soldiers I think of a marching "brick" or line of soldiers, not a running one.
 
Raelin only takes 1-2 order markers the whole game

I find the extra defense die to be very useful since in terms of defense the key ability is being able to get shield #2
 
ParaGoomba Slayer said:
Wait a second, how come 4th Mass have 5 move? When I think of Revolutionary soldiers I think of a marching "brick" or line of soldiers, not a running one.

Almost all of the 4-Move figures either have another movement power to help them (zombies, airborne, minions/sentinels) or compensate for low individual speed by being a common squad with four figures and bonding (knights, greeks/romans). The figures that have a flat four move with no built-in way to speed up or compensate are like molasses.
 
rdhight said:
ParaGoomba Slayer said:
Wait a second, how come 4th Mass have 5 move? When I think of Revolutionary soldiers I think of a marching "brick" or line of soldiers, not a running one.

Almost all of the 4-Move figures either have another movement power to help them (zombies, airborne, minions/sentinels) or compensate for low individual speed by being a common squad with four figures and bonding (knights, greeks/romans). The figures that have a flat four move with no built-in way to speed up or compensate are like molasses.


Ummm, but what about Marcus? Now, he isn't built-in, but it's similar to the gilbert's movement thing.
 
How come? Because the designers set their move value at 5.
 
ParaGoomba Slayer said:
Wait a second, how come 4th Mass have 5 move? When I think of Revolutionary soldiers I think of a marching "brick" or line of soldiers, not a running one.
Perhaps then you have an incorrect understanding of the guerrilla war tactics of the Revolutionary Forces. They weren't Red Coats. Besides 5 move is pretty much standard for humans. Those humans higher than that are exceptional, like Ninjas.
 
ParaGoomba Slayer said:
Wait a second, how come 4th Mass have 5 move? When I think of Revolutionary soldiers I think of a marching "brick" or line of soldiers, not a running one.

I was thinking about this the other day. I figure that in the case of the Sacred Band and the Roman Legionnaires, they have 4 movement because they assume that you draft Marcus. The Airborne Elite are also soldiers, and because of The Drop and Marcus, they decided to leave them at 4 movement. With Marcus, 6 movement, and 8 range total, they'd be really deadly.

I think the main reason that they avoided giving the 4th Mass 4 movement is because of their Valiant Army Defense bonus. In many situations, you won't draft Marcus with them, so giving them 4 movement and assuming Marcus wouldn't do. In the end, keeping them at 5 movement gave us an extremely powerful, underpriced squad.
 
i think it is their Wait then fire that makes the 4th Mass so good. I'd draft them even if they had only 4 movement but not if they lacked WTF
 
I think that the Marro Stingers are perceived to be better than the fourth Massachusetts Line because:

a) They have more mobility, not being required to stay in one place to get the attack bonus.

b) With height and stinger drain, they can reach an attack of 5 which, for a ranged unit, is quite unusual.

c) They can be regenerated using the Marro Hive.

d) They have better, less restrictive defense.

I am not necessarily saying that they are better, disregarding point cost...These are just the primary reasons that I think that they are perceived as being better.
 
MKSentinel said:
Um...no. Someone is really going to have to justify to me how the Stingers are better than 4th Mass at ANYTHING. 10 more points and you get a FOURTH ATTACKER.

I mean...WTF?

Fred

The fact that Stingers are cheaper and pack those points into less space and don't penalize you for non-Valiant allies is a pretty big advantage in army building. Stingers are much better team players.

For instance, consider this army:

240 Stingers x4
080 Rats x2
180 Major Q9
500 (and 22 hexes)

Stingers can partner up with anyone, move every turn, and still never drop below 3/3. Add the drain and they can really rock. Maybe they don't measure up to the 4th Mass in isolation, but when incorporated into a good army, they sure compete well.
 
NFCfan said:
the Stinger's are only in some ways cheaper than the 4th Mass. Yeah they cost 10 points less but each Stinger costs you 20 points whereas each 4th Mass only costs 17.5 12 Stingers will cost you 240 whereas 12 4th Mass only costs you 210

Plus, the 4th Mass don't kill themselves.
 
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