Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

[Killometer]

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion

All of krysto2002's nominations except for the Swarm Gruts have received at least 3 NOs and are therefore removed from the process.

robbdaman's Gor'Vath has received more than the required 4 YES votes needed to move on to being reviewed. Congrats!

 

[killercactus]

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion

In regards to the Addver Venom hate:

Remember that Venom ONLY works against multi-life heroes, though, and he still has to push a wound through with his attack of 3, and he has to actually make it into engagement without Disengage. Against squads, it's completely useless and, on top of that, his paralyzing stare isn't very effective against squad figures either. Plus, if he poisons a hero with a Special Attack, the range and attack nerfs don't even work.

With just 3 life and 3 defense, squads are going to rip this guy to shreds long before he can engage a big hero to use his powers. Raelin will help, his it's tough since he's melee to keep her around, plus I think she has better things to do than boost a 50 Point hero.

I still don't think the Arrow Gruts need the bonding, though. Swogs, Krug, Mimring and the Ice Troll are more than enough IMO.

 

[robbdaman]

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion

Don't forget Gor'vath's Character Bio: Reveling in destruction and driven to ensue chaos Gor'Vath was a double edged sword discovery for Utgar. Gor'Vath's mere presense to his enemies and allies make them sick to their stomach. For this reason alone few in Utgar's army wish to battle along side of him though they understand his purpose and usefulness. Gor'Vath wades into battle his only pleasure is in crushing all who he opposes.

I think the Arrow Gruts could use him well, in my own playtesting he made them more effective with his Fetid ability. Their one dice of attack more often allowed them to kill off other squad units. Squads like Krav Maga, Stingers, 4th and 10th still tear them up and jack up Gor'vath too.

 

[Filthy the Clown]

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion

I would like to nominate my own Priscus, Gladiator Hero.

Soldiers of Valhalla Induction Reports for Priscus

Spoiler Alert!

I had the same reservations as my colleagues did when I saw this nomination, but I voted yes, because Filthy did such a good job of “selling” him. So I began my games playing this guy and he is just fun. He adds new blood to the Gladiators, allows for more interesting builds, that Spartcus’ high point cost rebuffs and adds a Special Attack to the mix. Not only that, he also makes a Spartacus / Capuan Steamroller build even more potent.

My only reservation is that he is a modded figure, but since it only a little paint (or even a permanent marker works) and a small snip…its not too hard of a mod. People can still find Capuans out there at about $25 a pack, not bad price in this age of scape, and you can just mod him a bit and choose to use him as a Capuan or Priscus (Like you can with Samuel Brown).

So since he adds something to the Gladiators and can be modded easily, I vote YES to induct Flithy the Clown’s Priscus into the SoV.

Honestly, when I first looked over Priscus' card, I was a little underwhelmed by what I (at the time) felt like was his Inspiration-Lite focus. However, he looked balanced, and brought the Gladiators a much-needed Special Attack, plus Filthy put together a fantastic nomination, so I decided to vote Yes to review him.

I'm certainly glad that I did-he has proven to be an excellent addition to the Gladiator line-up.

Two of the Steamrollers significant weaknesses have been numbers and lack of a Special Ability. Priscus helps address both those.

With a cost 90 points less than Spartacus, a fourth squad of Capuans is now in reach for many more point totals. Altenatively, those points can be spent on another Gladiator Hero, or a ranged unit to entice your opponent to move within striking range of the Caps.

Shield Pin is a thematic Special Attack with a very valuable, but not over-powered bonus.

Taste of Freedom is Priscus' key selling point. Attack bonuses have always been highly regarded and highly priced in Heroscape. This one is one of the least expensive, but has the potential to affect many figures. It is severely limited, however, by only affecting Gladiators, and only functioning when all Order Markers are placed on Gladiatiors, including requiring one on Priscus.

Interestingly, the tactical overlap of Priscus and Spartacus (what I liked least on first consideration of Priscus) resulted my favorite army: Spartacus, Priscus, Capuans x3. This army requires careful Order Marker juggling, since both heroes require them to function fully. This added a level of strategy to the Steamroller that is previously lacked, and 5+ attack Gladiators are a sight to behold, especially when they are facing a hero-heavy army.

IN my opinion, Priscus' main weakness is that Taste of Freedom's limitations result in some default army builds, much as Spartacus' Gladiator Inspiration does, but fortunately Priscus' price allows room for more variety than Spartacus, is one wishes to build it in.

In the end, Priscus adds flixability, complexity and a much needed Special Attack to an army that benefits from all those things. I vote YES to induct Priscus into the Soldiers of Valhalla.

I vote NO to accept Priscus into the SoV.

This is a fun addition to the Capuans with a smart way to keep balance with Spartacus even in a huge point army. I like the unit quite a lot--I very narrowly didn't vote YES--but have a few issues. Maybe these are just me, but here they are, fwiw:

A) The pin shield SA subtracting two dice--that quite a lot.
B) The attack aura being 3 spaces--that's a big step up from similarly costed cheerleading/bonding units (think, Taelord vs. Finn).
C) The fact this unit requires a repaint of a current unit--not something I want to do a lot of really.

Several tests revealed that the Shield Pin is quite solid, but doesn't seem to be too unbalanced. This isn't the biggest issue, just one more.

The aura works well, but seems designed for by the Caps as only being a 3 man melee squad. However, I am concerned about the future of Gladiators--since the power does not specify only adjacent attacks getting a boost, this may limit the future of gladiators. There are a lot of ideas out there for Glads with range and this unit makes incorporating them a bit tougher. Bottomline for me, this power works as is--it's tough and might deserve a small price bump--but it works fairly well, but it is really limiting to custom work on future Glads, imo.

Should a unit be voted down for units that don't exist yet? Well, I think, yes. A unit should not create a mechanic that limits future units unnecessarily, imo. I'd like to see the card specific adjacent attacks, personally, or bump up the cost a bit.

Finally, the issue of sculpt. This is not a big issue, but it is an issue, for me, however small. I'll be clear, I'll always be a bit harsher on a unit that requires a repaint--esp. one that suggests an actual physical mod of an existing unit.

Anyhow, sorry for being a downer. But I have to be honest. I think this unit is extremely close to being an SoV unit (and my fellow judges may still consider it appropriate), but I'd like to see the cost jump slightly and/or see the aura adjusted. Icing on the cake, would be finding another sculpt/figure that could be used.

Thank you, Filthy, for creating this unit. Very solid and one I hope joins the SoV, sooner or later. Very nice work.

Ok, time for me to vote on Priscus by Filthy the Clown.

At 110 points Priscus is an important fit into a Gladiator build, as Filthy noted in the nominating post. He's obviously thematic. One thing I struggled with was the sculpt. He is a modified 'Scape sculpt, one of the gladiators, and Filthy's step by step guide to creating Priscus can be found here.

One thing I really wrestled with was whether I could vote to induct a sculpt that takes so much customization. So I read Filthy's instructions and realized something: His *only* change to the sculpt is the clipping off of the end of the sword. The rest is paint - red crest, darker clothes - making him almost identical in this way to Samuel Brown.

Another thing about the sculpt and competitive play: In the case of Samuel Brown, it's the rule for my events (see House Rules in my sig) that any 4th will do, provided it's distinguishable from others you may have in play. Extending the same rule to Priscus leads to an absurdly simple solution for an acceptable proxy: Just use Spartacus. They'll never be in the same army, so why not? Food for thought for the TDs out there.

Anyway. As I said, Priscus is very thematic and an overdue & welcome addition to the Gladiator faction.

I played with him a number of times on a few different maps and each time he played exactly as I believe Filthy intended him to. With 4 defense and 5 life he's reasonably durable but certainly not Spartacus or Crixus; with an attack aura of 4 hexes Crixus *loves* him but with no defense boost the Gladiators do not become too strong.

Filthy also duplicated the OM mechanic from Spartacus onto Priscus, so players are forced to choose one or the other even at very high point totals, or make a significant sacrifice by putting a 1, 2 or 3 on one of the heroes.

I think he may have worked as low as 100 points. Not lower, and definitely not higher.

This is a well balanced, clever, thematic, well-written card, concept and sculpt. I am pleased to vote yes to induct Filthy the Clown's Priscus into the Soldiers of Valhalla.

Criteria

Spoiler Alert!

Balance
At 110 points, Priscus costs more than the other, non-Spartacus Gladiator heroes, and for good reason: he offers a special attack and an attack boost for other gladiators. When compared with other attack-boosting cheerleaders (namely, Sir Gilbert, Finn, Taelord, Marcus and Spartacus), his cost reflects his abilities. However, note that he is far from invincible, with an average defense...Which tends to give credence to the gladiators abilities to strike quickly and take advantage of the assets that their limited numbers contribute to the fray.
Playability
Priscus fills a niche by allowing for a cheerleading Gladiator Hero that can be used when point totals do not easily allow for the other Gladiator Hero, Spartacus. In essence, he helps to make the Capuans more playable by boosting their offensive potential. Although his regular offensive rating is weak by gladiator standards, he offers a special attack that can be used to cut gaps through enemy screens (a known weakness of the gladiators). With this in mind, there are a couple of strategies that he excels at:

• Charging up front and punching a hole through screens that can in turn be exploited by his fellow gladiators. His longevity will be threatened in this scenario, but this becomes moot as the gladiators are able to take advantage of his penetration.
• Use him as a second wave to go forward and boost frontline gladiators. Send in Crixus first, then follow up with another wave of Capuans, led by Priscus.

Creativity
Shield Pin special attack is not only an ability that is unique to the gladiators; it thematically fits with their style (in this case, he is a gladiator, trained in the use of a shield and Gaius/short sword; this matches the weaponry on the sculpt as well).
Taste of Freedom is indeed rather Taelord-esque, but it is an ability that can only be utilized by gladiators (hence, adding a creative flair to otherwise uninspired Capuans and gladiator heroes).
Theme
Priscus fits in the theme of Einar, as a gladiator hero, as well as a historical figure (he was a first century Roman Gladiator, who was born a slave and fought another gladiator to a standstill, allowing both gladiators to earn their freedom).
Accessibility
Priscus is created from an existing Capuan Gladiator sculpt:

With a few modifications (namely, the shortening of his sword, and the repainting of his armor and shield...All of which can be accomplished with minimal household materials), Priscus can easily be created. Capuan Gladiators are available at

• Ebay
• Auggies (they are currently out of stock, but I have seen them a few times this year)
• Wal-Mart (for example: my local Wal-mart still has 4 packs of them; although this is specific to my location, I suspect that he can be found in other Wal-marts as well)

Additional information in regards to Priscus (including a painting guide, suggested armies, and other playtesting feedback) can be found at my customs thread.

NOTE: I originally playtested Priscus by painting a red crest on the helmet of one of my Capuans. For those wanting to only slightly alter their chosen Capuan sculpt, this could be an easy way to 'create' Priscus, while still using the sculpt as a Capuan squad member (you can always swap out the sculpt for your first casualty of the game).

Thanks in advance for the consideration!

 

[tcglkn]

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion

I think all nominations should be like this, explaining the costing and how he is usable and not just a copy of another hero.

 

[Lamaclown]

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion

I think all nominations should be like this, explaining the costing and how he is usable and not just a copy of another hero.

Check out FtC's thread. He goes even further there. He does a very good job of thinking through his creations.

NOTE:
This is not a Yes to review vote, yet. Just lauding FtC's attention to detail.

 

[nyys]

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion

Priscus by Filthy

Simple = better. Yes to review.

My only reservation is that I would have to 'destroy' one of my Capuan squads to use him. Would love to see some alternative sculpts if they're out there.

 

[Dad_Scaper]

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion

NYYS, I was wondering if a little paint might be enough to satisfy the needs of both cards. Skip the scissors, paint with a light touch, and you have a sculpt that maybe could go both ways.

Anyway, a big to review from me for Priscus.

 

[krysto2002]

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion

This is what happens when I turn my back for a few seconds...
Sorry about Gordyrr, he is actually supposed to be around 185-195, that's a typo I'm glad someone caught.

As for the argument to Asmodeus' name... people, go out and read more! Asmodeus Poisonteeth is the giant adder (by comparison) from Redwall, so take that up with Brian Jaques, not me. The cards do all need rewording, but since I only get 1-2 comments on my actual cards that's pretty tough to do. He's also very fragile, considering he's smaller, slower and weaker all around the MBS, so if he even get close enough to a hero to poison it, then it's probably the fault of the player for allowing themselves to fall in such a position... that's just me.

Next, as for the AG bonding, that is something I pointed out, but it is not the intent of the units (even though someone just pointed out that another nominated unit would do well with AGs...). I was not looking to fill a niche, it is the class I best thought fit the unit, in fact I have another squad coming (eventually).
Not to mention the majority of the NO's came from the exact same people, multiple times, who were well mistaken on quite a few points. I'm willing to reword, the core function is what I'm proposing to you guys. You're walls of text simplified down to the no just seem a bit off to me.

The Einar's Centurions I decided to rename Einar's Finest and change the ability name, as well as reduce the effect of some abilities.

The blood raptors are meant to be a cheap easy to collect unit that would be fun to play. Their only function aside from the normal ability of moving and attacking is their ability to call other raptors to their side, which doesn't HAVE to be the attacked unit, just one the attacker is engaged with.

I don't see why some of you still seem to hate some of these units, if yu want me to touch them up, that is my purpose for showing them to you, since with no feedback I have no way of doing so. Now I know, so if any of you like the general unit, just say so and I'll fix it as need be.

Sorry for the rant, this is, yet again, another terrible day for me.

 

[Lamaclown]

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion

I took a closer look at Priscus...
to review.

If an alternate fig is out there it would be nice as I am gladiatorally challenged (I only have one squad). If not, DS' solution works fine. However, great job on giving instructions for the repaint!

 

[Dad_Scaper]

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion

Krysto, please don't worry too much about criticism your units have received here.

My sense is there is something else going on outside your 'Scape customs right now, and that something is bothering you a fair bit. I hope whatever it is resolves in the right way and in a good way for you.

I think your customs were good and each one had some very interesting mechanics.

It's good to see you are aware that the language needs to be tightened on some of them. I wonder whether you weren't also in places putting too many good ideas on one card.

Anyway, you mustn't, mustn't, mustn't feel bad. As I wrote earlier in the thread, the board is loaded with quality, fun customs that might just not make the cut here because we are looking for something else. You *had* interesting mechanics and good sculpts. What I think you hadn't done sufficiently, in broad terms, is edit.

Peel away the extra stuff to make a card that is more sleek and easier to understand. Or, in the alternative, keep doing what you're doing and have fun with it, because your customs are fun and should not be a chore. Don't let us get in the way of doing what brings you satisfaction.

Don't feel bad, for heaven's sake.

Cheers!

 

[Killometer]

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion

YES to review Priscus.

Filthy the Clown's Priscus has received 4 YES votes, so it moves on to being reviewed. Congrats.

Not to mention the majority of the NO's came from the exact same people, multiple times, who were well mistaken on quite a few points. I'm willing to reword, the core function is what I'm proposing to you guys. You're walls of text simplified down to the no just seem a bit off to me.

I'm sorry if you misunderstood the purpose of the SoV, krysto, but it is not to help refine works-in-progress. We are here to identify custom units that are ready to play.

As far as judges voting no multiple times, you nominated multiple units, and each judge has to vote on each one.

 

[tcglkn]

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion

I don't see why some of you still seem to hate some of these units, if yu want me to touch them up, that is my purpose for showing them to you, since with no feedback I have no way of doing so. Now I know, so if any of you like the general unit, just say so and I'll fix it as need be.

They don't hate them, they just aren't perfect. This group is like the BoV, they just take tested units that have been well worded and test them to make sure they are fair. If you want your units worked on and corrected, thats what the CHCG24 is for.

 

[krysto2002]

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion

I don't see why some of you still seem to hate some of these units, if yu want me to touch them up, that is my purpose for showing them to you, since with no feedback I have no way of doing so. Now I know, so if any of you like the general unit, just say so and I'll fix it as need be.

They don't hate them, they just aren't perfect. This group is like the BoV, they just take tested units that have been well worded and test them to make sure they are fair. If you want your units worked on and corrected, thats what the CHCG24 is for.

I would, but not only was the last attempt close to a disaster and took far longer then needed due to the recent "news", but since I cannot nominate on my own units, I must rely on another member to pick mine, not to mention it has to be one of these. No, at the moment I do not think there is a group that can efficiently provide more than plain, old feedback.

I would love to perfect these units, do not get me wrong, I just need people to give me feedback, of which I just got plenty, though most of it was the (as my psych teacher calls it) "bad" feedback, lacking possible suggestions or advice. However, I did receive plenty of "good" feedback, of which I am currently working off of.

 

[hextr1p]

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion

Nomination from my own set of customs...

:: ZOMBIKAZES v.2::

Click image for larger version
Figures used: Mage Knight's Detonating Zombie (3)

I think all the information required for nomination is there. Let me know if there is something I overlooked and forgot to include.

 

[Killometer]

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion

After some discussion we've decided to implement a limit of one nomination per post, so choose wisely.

Edit: You put you're H3X symbol where we are planning on putting our SoV symbol, so I vote NO to review. Not really. Awesome minis. Let me ponder a little, and I'll get back with a real vote.

Edit edit: As I was pondering I became worried about how an all-melee army would handle facing these guys, and started to think that 60 points was way too cheap, until I realized that it wouldn't be too difficult to start off a chain reaction where a Zombikaze army obliterates itself. I don't think I can fairly judge them without playing them, so I vote YES to review (plus they look cool, and have a d20 power-two of my HS weaknesses :kryptonite.

 

[ZBeeblebrox]

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion

I don't see why some of you still seem to hate some of these units, if yu want me to touch them up, that is my purpose for showing them to you, since with no feedback I have no way of doing so. Now I know, so if any of you like the general unit, just say so and I'll fix it as need be.

They don't hate them, they just aren't perfect. This group is like the BoV, they just take tested units that have been well worded and test them to make sure they are fair. If you want your units worked on and corrected, thats what the CHCG24 is for.

I would, but not only was the last attempt close to a disaster and took far longer then needed due to the recent "news", but since I cannot nominate on my own units, I must rely on another member to pick mine, not to mention it has to be one of these. No, at the moment I do not think there is a group that can efficiently provide more than plain, old feedback.

I would love to perfect these units, do not get me wrong, I just need people to give me feedback, of which I just got plenty, though most of it was the (as my psych teacher calls it) "bad" feedback, lacking possible suggestions or advice. However, I did receive plenty of "good" feedback, of which I am currently working off of.

Hi Krysto...tcg is right this is the BoV of customs. We are not going to polish before proceeding, but what I'm going to try to di is make further comments and suggestions in the author's thread. I did that for Therian and was planning to that tonight for you as well...but you submitted 5 entries at one time and I have a lot of notes to go through, before I post in your thread.

I made this commitment with every intention to be more involved in the Custom community and I hope I will be able to help you and others in the future.


---------------------------------------------------------

Now on to business:

H3X, I've always have liked your Zomikazes and would be honored to test them for the SoV. - My vote is Yes

 

[nyys]

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion

Zombikazes by hextr1p

These guys are way too cool to not give a try. Yes to review.

 

[Dad_Scaper]

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion

Oh my god that is awesome. How could I not vote to reviewing Zombikazes?

On a serious note, readers of this thread may wish to take a moment and look at how well hextr1p described two complex abilities.

There are a couple of things that make these powers easy to understand. The language is clear and simple. You may also note there is relatively little punctuation, and frequent use of terms and phrases we know from other cards. This is an excellent example of a card with complex but *well written* abilities.

 

[krysto2002]

Re: Soldiers of Valhalla-nominations and discussion

You guys are 100% correct. I'm pulling all of my customs back and starting a freelance feedback thread for that exact purpose.
So to anyone who wants to polish up their units, check it out, the 3FG is ready to go!