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Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

That aspect threw me off initially, but it makes sense that the targeted figure takes the brunt of the attack and the nearby figures take slash damage. I like the changes.

:up: to review Nordlung
 
It doesn’t make much sense from how a weapon like that would work. The shockwave would propagate from the slug. For the pulse effect to work as described, it would essentially be a torus, and there’s no way to explain how a point source generated that, other than hand-wavy future tech.

Also, in terms of fighting Q9 and Q10, this makes the special feel not worth it. Give me Nilf for an extra 25 points every day, since I’ve got the same odds of damaging either one, but I can hit two more targets, not to mention way better survivability and a better normal attack. Having a potential extra wound on the target that bypasses defense is massive and makes Nordlung worth the points.
 
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What's the theme for only affecting soulborgs that follow jandar? Repulsors don't differentiate. If it is meant to be an electrical charge or EMP type of thing wouldn't it hit metal things equally? Not just hitting zettians, warden, and gladiatrons lol.

Thematically, the idea is that technology has advanced and the Omnicrons have found a way to shield themselves from their own weapon. It's also meant to be a clue as to the weapon's Omnicron origins. Gameplay-wise, it makes it feasible to play Nordlung in an army alongside Repulsors, which are designed to engage their opponents.

Feasible, yes, but I'm not seeing any incentive to play Nordlung with Repulsors. I suggest something like this to do that:

SHOCKGUN SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 7. Attack 4.
If the targeted figure is adjacent to a Soulborg you control who follows Jandar, you may choose all figures adjacent to the targeted figure that are not Soulborgs who follow Jandar to also be affected by Shockgun Special Attack. Roll attack dice once for all affected figures.

This powers up Nordlung's attack with your Repulsors and powers up your Repulsors against non-Soulborgs.
 
Thanks quozl, but synergy with the Repulsors was not a priority of mine. I don't think Nordlung really works in an Omnicron army except in higher point games where you can afford both him and Omegacron too.


That aspect threw me off initially, but it makes sense that the targeted figure takes the brunt of the attack and the nearby figures take slash damage.

Yeah, that's how I envision it. I initially considered making the primary target also subject to the d20 roll because I wasn't opposed to it, but doing so would've required more text and now that I'm getting older I tend to avoid making cards with small print.


Give me Nilf for an extra 25 points every day, since I’ve got the same odds of damaging either one, but I can hit two more targets, not to mention way better survivability and a better normal attack.

Sure, but that's because Nilfheim's "true" cost is a fair amount more than 185 points and I wasn't aiming to make Nordlung an A-ranked unit.
 
Yeah, that's how I envision it. I initially considered making the primary target also subject to the d20 roll because I wasn't opposed to it, but doing so would've required more text and now that I'm getting older I tend to avoid making cards with small print.

If the damage is “slash damage” from a hit then shouldn’t all adjacent figures take the damage, not just Soulborgs? I love the figure and like the design, but I’m not sure text size is enough to justify such an odd and borderline impossible damage mechanic lore wise.
 
Yeah, that's how I envision it. I initially considered making the primary target also subject to the d20 roll because I wasn't opposed to it, but doing so would've required more text and now that I'm getting older I tend to avoid making cards with small print.

If the damage is “slash damage” from a hit then shouldn’t all adjacent figures take the damage, not just Soulborgs? I love the figure and like the design, but I’m not sure text size is enough to justify such an odd and borderline impossible damage mechanic lore wise.

Not if it's a weapon specifically designed to damage robots, like an EMP. Hurts the folks on batteries, but does nothing to the squishy ones.
 
Yeah, that's how I envision it. I initially considered making the primary target also subject to the d20 roll because I wasn't opposed to it, but doing so would've required more text and now that I'm getting older I tend to avoid making cards with small print.

If the damage is “slash damage” from a hit then shouldn’t all adjacent figures take the damage, not just Soulborgs? I love the figure and like the design, but I’m not sure text size is enough to justify such an odd and borderline impossible damage mechanic lore wise.

Not if it's a weapon specifically designed to damage robots, like an EMP. Hurts the folks on batteries, but does nothing to the squishy ones.

Right, I understand the concept. If it’s an EMP then it would also hurt the Soulborg directly in the center of the pulse.
 
That doesn't bother me. It makes sense that a 'bigger payload' is hitting the center. So I don't feel like the center of the shot needs to get hit by the d20. I see the theme of the 4 dice being rolled as the impact and center of the event with the d20 being the splash.

I just don't like jandar borgs getting a free pass lol.
 
That doesn't bother me. It makes sense that a 'bigger payload' is hitting the center. So I don't feel like the center of the shot needs to get hit by the d20. I see the theme of the 4 dice being rolled as the impact and center of the event with the d20 being the splash.
Yes, the projectile is hitting the target, and presumably does physical damage to the target. Then some sort of EMP or shockwave would activate...and the field lines would originate from the projectile, and thus the initial target. As I mentioned before, the shockwave making a safe bubble around the machine it's literally emanating just doesn't make sense. Also, just from like an overall perspective of making this shockgun...why on Valhalla wouldn't you want it to affect the figure you hit?

"Check it out, I made this cool EMP gun."
"Awesome, there's one lone Soulborg wrecking us out there right now. Let's shut this thing down!"
"Oh, actually, bad news about that..."

I understand why the designer wants this from a balance perspective, but there are so many aspects that make this feel weird.

I just don't like jandar borgs getting a free pass lol.

I'm mostly with you on this. Omnicron Repulsors are immune to their own Circuitry Overload, which makes it seem that they have a Faraday cage or EMP shield built into their armor to protect them from this sort of thing. But there are other Jandar soulborgs that aren't immune to the EMP response; you can absolutely EMP response against an opponent's Omnicron Sniper. Why shouldn't Shockgun hurt opponents' Omnicron Snipers as well?

This is probably the last I'll say on this design. I feel like I'm being hyper critical and I'm not a huge fan of the tone this reads as, but I still think these points need to be brought up. I honestly like the idea of the shockgun, but the current (hah!) implementation doesn't do it for me.
 
That doesn't bother me. It makes sense that a 'bigger payload' is hitting the center. So I don't feel like the center of the shot needs to get hit by the d20. I see the theme of the 4 dice being rolled as the impact and center of the event with the d20 being the splash.

I just don't like jandar borgs getting a free pass lol.

More or less how I see it as well. As far as Jandar bots go, I'm good with that too. I'd look at it as the weapon having a frequency, one that those on the 'right' side can tune out, disrupt, etc...

This is probably the last I'll say on this design. I feel like I'm being hyper critical and I'm not a huge fan of the tone this reads as, but I still think these points need to be brought up. I honestly like the idea of the shockgun, but the current (hah!) implementation doesn't do it for me.

All good ryguy, it's fun to have some friendly debate. I think it's really not a big deal for me because a long time ago I got over that a bow and arrow could take down a robot, along with the multitude of other weapons that have no business being equivalent other than in HeroScape :)
 
That doesn't bother me. It makes sense that a 'bigger payload' is hitting the center. So I don't feel like the center of the shot needs to get hit by the d20. I see the theme of the 4 dice being rolled as the impact and center of the event with the d20 being the splash.

I just don't like jandar borgs getting a free pass lol.

More or less how I see it as well. As far as Jandar bots go, I'm good with that too. I'd look at it as the weapon having a frequency, one that those on the 'right' side can tune out, disrupt, etc...

This is probably the last I'll say on this design. I feel like I'm being hyper critical and I'm not a huge fan of the tone this reads as, but I still think these points need to be brought up. I honestly like the idea of the shockgun, but the current (hah!) implementation doesn't do it for me.

All good ryguy, it's fun to have some friendly debate. I think it's really not a big deal for me because a long time ago I got over that a bow and arrow could take down a robot, along with the multitude of other weapons that have no business being equivalent other than in HeroScape :)

Agreed.
 
I think it's really not a big deal for me because a long time ago I got over that a bow and arrow could take down a robot, along with the multitude of other weapons that have no business being equivalent other than in HeroScape :)

In other words, as we used to say a lot on this site, "It's a game, not a simulation."


I feel like I'm being hyper critical and I'm not a huge fan of the tone this reads as, but I still think these points need to be brought up.

Don't worry about it; no problem with your tone from my end. If anything, I appreciate the opportunity to elaborate on my choices, such as they are.
 
Necro-Mage Elba by @NecroBlade has passed United Fanscape review and moves forward in the process.

Kafnirraa by @Shadowking did not pass United Fanscape review and is removed from the process. It was a close and contentious vote, but ultimately the current form of Honor of Clans was felt to be too "forced" and the same effect could be accomplished more cleanly (dok had a good idea there). Additionally, there was some concern about the use of the term "totem" for a figure that isn't carrying something that looks like an emblem.
 
Necro-Mage Elba by @NecroBlade has passed United Fanscape review and moves forward in the process.

Kafnirraa by @Shadowking did not pass United Fanscape review and is removed from the process. It was a close and contentious vote, but ultimately the current form of Honor of Clans was felt to be too "forced" and the same effect could be accomplished more cleanly (dok had a good idea there). Additionally, there was some concern about the use of the term "totem" for a figure that isn't carrying something that looks like an emblem.

If something was brought up that could be applied to the power to make it more clean, then I am happy to hear it; would definitely be willing to look at doing a rework. As for the use of the word "totem", since it can fall into pretty broad definitions I was using it to reference the antler talismans on the back of her cloak, but I could exchange it for a different name as part of said rework (along the lines of something like Guardian Talismans, Antlers of the Guardian/Antlers of the Guardian Elk maybe), or just remove the more mystical connotations and go for something more mundane but still getting across the same sort of "wild clan" feel, perhaps something like Guardian's Bond or Oath of the Guardian.
 
@Shadowking, Please don't give up on Kafnirraa. It's really close. As someone who has submitted several things to the SoV, I have had more submissions fail to pass, than succeed. Ask dok for his take on Honor of Clans. Find a better name and theme for Guardian Totem. If you've had any other ideas since submission, use this opportunity to improve the design further.

---- ---- ---- ----

This reminds me @Scytale Under the "Units that have been inducted in the Soldiers of Valhalla" Swaysil is credited to me, but that design should be credited to Maklar the Silver Prince.
 
It was pointed out that the carried item might be the “totem,” but that is not consistent with the mechanic of her taking the damage. As I saw it. Not that I actually vote anymore.
 
It was pointed out that the carried item might be the “totem,” but that is not consistent with the mechanic of her taking the damage. As I saw it. Not that I actually vote anymore.

I was kind of taking it on a "magic item" level (something like Drake's katana) rather than a "use of this physical object allows this person (or any person holding it) to do such a thing in a purely non-magical way". I know Scytale asked me about my thoughts behind her planet before, maybe I do just switch it to Faerún and then the somewhat vague/nebulous connections of it needing to be empowered by a non-Earth object in some way disappear.
 
The issue I’m seeing is that the *item* is delivering the protection but the *hero* is giving wounds to trigger it. That doesn’t sound like a protective totem to me. That sounds like a sacrifice of some kind, using her body to protect her allies. My issue on this point is the connection of the theme - magical totem - to the mechanic: *she* soaks wounds for her teammates.
 
The issue I’m seeing is that the *item* is delivering the protection but the *hero* is giving wounds to trigger it. That doesn’t sound like a protective totem to me. That sounds like a sacrifice of some kind, using her body to protect her allies. My issue on this point is the connection of the theme - magical totem - to the mechanic: *she* soaks wounds for her teammates.

Ah, I see - yeah I'd been thinking of it as like the magical item creating a sort of aura that allowed its wielder to take damage for their allies; the damage is not magically being removed, but the item allows her to take that damage herself. So yeah, while I was considering that a form of protection (which it is to some degree), perhaps a "protective totem" or a "guardian totem" is a touch misleading as terminology/the name I chose was getting a little confusing, perhaps I might be looking at something more along the lines of "Antlers of Sacrifice" to properly get the theme across? She *is* protecting her clan, but at a cost to herself.
 
The issue I’m seeing is that the *item* is delivering the protection but the *hero* is giving wounds to trigger it. That doesn’t sound like a protective totem to me. That sounds like a sacrifice of some kind, using her body to protect her allies. My issue on this point is the connection of the theme - magical totem - to the mechanic: *she* soaks wounds for her teammates.

Ah, I see - yeah I'd been thinking of it as like the magical item creating a sort of aura that allowed its wielder to take damage for their allies; the damage is not magically being removed, but the item allows her to take that damage herself. So yeah, while I was considering that a form of protection (which it is to some degree), perhaps a "protective totem" or a "guardian totem" is a touch misleading as terminology/the name I chose was getting a little confusing, perhaps I might be looking at something more along the lines of "Antlers of Sacrifice" to properly get the theme across? She *is* protecting her clan, but at a cost to herself.

If you are thinking of resubmitting (and I hope you do). A trip through the help with wordz thread would likely help with bot concerns raised.
 
[

"Check it out, I made this cool EMP gun."
"Awesome, there's one lone Soulborg wrecking us out there right now. Let's shut this thing down!"
"Oh, actually, bad news about that..."

.
I keep coming back to this comment and despite it not being a simulation this is a step to weird for me.

Vote no to review.
 
Kafnirra failing UFR: Kafnirra is close. I think its important to know that the issue with Honor of Clans was NOT the intent of the power (like I was worried it might be) but the execution. A power that prevents Kafnirra from synergizing with Knights but allows her to work with MacDirks and Dreadguls is can be great, but this version of Honor of Clans isn't it. I think both dok and Chris Perkins had good ideas to make it a better power.

Personally, I'm less bothered by the "totem" discussion, but I think Dad_Scaper has some good advice that might sway the rest of the detractors.

----------

Nordlung resubmission: Hoarfrost is an awesome name and gives the breath weapon very distinct visual that isn't the visual that I get from Nilfheim. Which I like.

Shockgun is pretty cool too. I get the feeling that it is the nickname for the weapon. Like Omegacron gave him the "Electromagnetic Shotgun MK7" and Nordlung responded, "Its a shotgun that shocks? I'm calling it a Shockgun." Whether that's intended or not, it feels fun and campy and I love it.

Mechanically, the only thing that's changed since the previous version is the ranged SA (and the points, but only minimally). I get the intention of doing a weaker, secondary splash with a d20. That part makes sense. But I gotta agree with ryguy266 here, the "shock" really should affect the primary target too.

Just to give a quick example, if I'm playing Zelda (specifically Breath of the Wild or Tears of the Kingdom) and I shoot a Shock Arrow into a group of enemies, one guy is taking the arrow damage and everyone is taking the electric damage, the primary target isn't somehow immune to the lightning effect. I can't think of a reason why the "physics" would work differently here. Especially because the shock effect isn't contingent on hitting the primary target, just attacking it. Nordlung could miss, but the shock splash damage still hits. That implies that the electricity is an aura or AOE around the projectile rather than an impact and then explode type of effect.

I think the SA needs to be cleaned up thematically a bit. :down: to review.

On a separate note (two separate notes actually), 1) I like the idea of Repulsor synergies with this SA. And 2) I want to acknowledge a mistake I made in my previous review for Nordlung. Zetacron's Range is 8. So my comment on reducing Nordlung's omnicron weapon's range to 7 to match the rest, was wrong.
 
I want to chime in in defense of the Shockgun SA. It has a chance to inflict a wound on the target and on adjacent figures. The primary target has a higher chance to take more wounds (in most situations) than the adjacent figures, but they're all impacted. I appreciate the simplicity of the approach.
 
Hey, I just wanted to break into this thread to give you folks an update on the Annunhounds' sculpt availability, as I realize that I never actually followed through on that point when I mentioned it a few months ago.

Paizo apparently orders Deep Cuts Hell Hounds from their suppliers as needed, which seems to suggest that the figures are still in production. Moreover, I've recently noticed that more Hell Hounds have been bubbling up since I submitted the Annunhounds: eBay's stock has increased by at least 5 squads across all sellers, and a quick search for new retailers has revealed 14 new listings, which I'll include within spoiler tags for readability. Granted, these sources still exist in the same "wide and sparse" distribution that previously hampered the miniatures' original availability, but, when combined with the tally in my submission post, they're enough to push the Annunhounds to a total of 94 squads before counting Paizo's supply.

There's also a zanier extension that I thought could be worth mentioning. WizKids also makes an unpainted D&D Miniatures product called "Mastiff and Shadow Mastiff." The latter is a medum-sized, menacing, spectral hound sculpted from clear plastic; it's wispier than a Pathfinder Hell Hound, and I don't know how well it matches the Hell Hound in size, but it could make a fine alternate sculpt or "official" proxy if we stretch the precedent set for C3V's Rackham squads. I've found enough sets to add an additional 25 squads of Annunhounds to our tables, which would bring the minimum total to a respectable 119 if this idea is feasible.

Deep Cuts Hell Hounds - New Stock
Spoiler Alert!

Mastiff and Shadow Mastiff - Stock
Spoiler Alert!
 
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