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Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

... Miss readed the new card, sorry.

(I though that now he uses the bonding before his turn, as for a basic bonding... but no, never mind. ^^" )

If you just read nyys's review and not the card then it would be quite easy to get this impression.
 
I would like to nominate the new and improved Kantono Daishi.

Kantono+Daishi_FD3.jpg


Figure used:
League Assassin #004 Brave and the Bold Heroclix
Spoiler Alert!


Alternative figures (just different color schemes)
The Sensei #026 Brave and the Bold Heroclix (blue version)
League Elite #011 Brave and the Bold Heroclix (red version)

Availability:
Spoiler Alert!


Bio:
Spoiler Alert!

I'll admit that I liked the Valkrill faction here--I saw him as an instigator of assassins (very Valkrill to me), rather than a "general" like Kato, etc.

I've spent some time thinking about this unit, this resubmission, this new iteration. I've pulled him back out, I've looked again at my old tests, and I've thought about it some more.

And I like it.

I still like the unit--it has some strong match-ups, but a lot more weak ones; it just oozes theme--and I think the Vydar thing can work well for it.

I vote YES to induct Kantano Daishi into the SoV.
 
Woot, here's to somebody other than Scytale getting a review done. Don't get me wrong, I love what the SoV is doing but this tales a hell of a long time. I really hope to see Kheris or Brimstone pass.
 
Woot, here's to somebody other than Scytale getting a review done. Don't get me wrong, I love what the SoV is doing but this tales a hell of a long time. I really hope to see Kheris or Brimstone pass.
As a former SoV judge I can tell you that the judging process does take quite some time. And for good reason.

The SoV wants to make sure that they pass only the top of the top units. This takes a considerable amount of playtesting to do. So, any Fanscape fan should be very glad that the judges here take their responsibilities seriously enough to give each unit under review a thorough amount of testing. Not to mention that each one of these great guys has real life responsibilities as well.
 
Woot, here's to somebody other than Scytale getting a review done. Don't get me wrong, I love what the SoV is doing but this tales a hell of a long time. I really hope to see Kheris or Brimstone pass.
As a former SoV judge I can tell you that the judging process does take quite some time. And for good reason.

The SoV wants to make sure that they pass only the top of the top units. This takes a considerable amount of playtesting to do. So, any Fanscape fan should be very glad that the judges here take their responsibilities seriously enough to give each unit under review a thorough amount of testing. Not to mention that each one of these great guys has real life responsibilities as well.
To be honest, if the judging weren't quite so rigourous, I don't think this organization would've succeded.
 
It should be noted that the new Kantono Daishi is able to be activated by the Command Courier.

I share the opinion of 1Mmirg that Kantono Daishi was better as Valkrill
 
It should be noted that the new Kantono Daishi is able to be activated by the Command Courier.

I share the opinion of 1Mmirg that Kantono Daishi was better as Valkrill
You should read the card more carefully before making such pronouncements. ;)
 
It should be noted that the new Kantono Daishi is able to be activated by the Command Courier.

I share the opinion of 1Mmirg that Kantono Daishi was better as Valkrill
You should read the card more carefully before making such pronouncements. ;)

I wasn't saying there was a bonding loop, just saying that he can be activated by the Courier:) (Although I suppose that was obvious:oops:)

And also I just like Valkrill:D
 
Woot, here's to somebody other than Scytale getting a review done. Don't get me wrong, I love what the SoV is doing but this tales a hell of a long time. I really hope to see Kheris or Brimstone pass.

I know four of us are working on Brimstone actively right now, so (don't quote me) but he should have some votes in soon-ish.
 
I wasn't saying there was a bonding loop, just saying that he can be activated by the Courier:) (Although I suppose that was obvious:oops:)

True, though most of Kantono Daishi's points are due to Dishonorable Leadership. Might be worth a little playtesting to see if he can be used as a blocking unit in a Vydar army, but I doubt it.
 
Without dishonorable leadership, he's a 4-life Izumi Samurai with Phantom Walk. For 120 points, that doesn't really sound like a figure worth considering.
 
Without dishonorable leadership, he's a 4-life Izumi Samurai with Phantom Walk. For 120 points, that doesn't really sound like a figure worth considering.

Even in a heroes only environment? It might be worth checking just to see how he rolls in that capacity.
 
Without dishonorable leadership, he's a 4-life Izumi Samurai with Phantom Walk. For 120 points, that doesn't really sound like a figure worth considering.

Even in a heroes only environment? It might be worth checking just to see how he rolls in that capacity.
I'm not saying he'd be horrible, but he's rather plainly outclassed by other figures in that price range. Laglor would beat him 1-on-1 pretty consistently, I think, and obviously 1-on-1 is not his forte.
 
It should be noted that the new Kantono Daishi is able to be activated by the Command Courier.

I share the opinion of 1Mmirg that Kantono Daishi was better as Valkrill
You should read the card more carefully before making such pronouncements. ;)

I wasn't saying there was a bonding loop, just saying that he can be activated by the Courier:) (Although I suppose that was obvious:oops:)

And also I just like Valkrill:D

I have to add a fourth opinion that I think Daishi was better with Valkrill. I was very disappointed when that was the reason it was not passed. I think that how the figure plays and interacts with other official figures should be the determining factor over what was a theme issue with two judges.
 
It should be noted that the new Kantono Daishi is able to be activated by the Command Courier.

I share the opinion of 1Mmirg that Kantono Daishi was better as Valkrill
You should read the card more carefully before making such pronouncements. ;)

I wasn't saying there was a bonding loop, just saying that he can be activated by the Courier:) (Although I suppose that was obvious:oops:)

And also I just like Valkrill:D

I have to add a fourth opinion that I think Daishi was better with Valkrill. I was very disappointed when that was the reason it was not passed. I think that how the figure plays and interacts with other official figures should be the determining factor over what was a theme issue with two judges.

It was not just two judges, many C3V members had similar problems with Daishi coming from Valkrill.
 
capsocrates was also concerned that Daishi was too strong in endgame for a general figure of his price.
 
Kantono Daishi by qt.bangerang

Kantono+Daishi_FD3.jpg


Let me keep this short and sweet. There are only a couple of changes here, and they are both good. Dishonorable Leadership now has the "when revealing an Order Marker" language which prevents a Command Courier from triggering his bonding power. It also keeps things clean for any future bonding powers that would activate heroes. The other change is in his allegiance. He now fights for Vydar which is fine with me. I am not one who is totally opposed to a humans fighting for Valkrill, but a disciplined ninja master seemed a little off (maybe if he were ruthless or merciless but that's neither here nor there). I did run a couple tests with him as a blocker in a heroes only format. As dok predicted he did not do a lot. Without his ninja crew he is just annoying to chase down. Definitely not a role that I would solely select him for.

All in all this is very good revision and I vote YEA to inducting Kantono Daishi into the Soldiers of Valhalla.
 
Threforian Raptor by Fi Skirata

Balance
The Threforian Raptors are a common hero so we can make some comparisons there and to the other Calvary type units (which Scytale has already done) that already exist.

These guys are kind of a pseudobonders so comparing to the Wyrmlings is natural. However, even though the Wyrmlings move a little slower, they have flying and a ranged special making them a better choice than the Raptors. And the Wyrmlings have actually bonding making them still the better choice to take in multiples and as filler.

Next, is the only other double space common figure, the Dumutef Guard. The Dumutef Guard is 10 points cheaper and has 1 more attack and defense, making them a more attractive choice then the fast more frail Raptors. The Dumutef Guard and Raptors both bond with the Death Knights, but I feel the Raptors still fall short here because they cost more and die faster.

For a more detailed comparison see Scytale’s review, he did a great job.

Theme
The idea of creating more dinosaurs for Heroscape is a great, and I can see them fitting nicely into the ranks of Aquilla because they have no riders.

I like that it is a common hero rather than a same sculpt squad, and the powers are fitting but the effectiveness is the problem.

Playability
The Raptors two abilities, Call for Help and Pack Assault, tell you that you need to have multiples for these powers to be effective. But with a hoard or just a few, they are not effective because they simply are not worth putting order markers on them.

These guys are hard to play and they trick you into thinking you should play them with Vipers because Mitten’s boost to their move as scouts, making them even faster. But the problem is that you still have to spend order markers on them and hope they survive attacks to activate Call for Help. Because of their low survivability this triggering is unlikely most of the time, and thus makes Pack Assault even harder to use.

Next trying to play them with Khosumet is also not affective because once again you have to spend order markers on Khosumet and the Raptors making it even harder to position them to gain the extra attack boost. Once again making them ineffective and not worth using.

The final chance for the raptors are the Death Knights because they can actually bond with them. But once again they fall a bit short because you are better off taking the cheaper sturdier Dumutef Guards.

Summary
Unfortunately the Threforian Raptors are just too ineffective with only single activations. Their abilities are dependent on them surviving, which they simple aren’t good at doing. Again their abilities require multiple copies to be used and because their abilities aren't able to be used they become just a quick-strike unit with low survivability and low chance of actually do significant damage.

I vote NO to induct theThreforian Raptor into the SoV.
 
Kantono Daishi by qt.bangerang

I am very happy to see the changes made to the unit formerly known as Dashi Tokainto. The three issues I brought up in my review of the previous version have been addressed: the not-so-Japanese-sounding name, the choice of general, and the wording change to prevent potential bonding chains. I love the new name (especially what it sort-of means), and the fact that he has both a family and given name unlike the Ninjas is explained well in the bio. Vydar was my personal first choice of general; I've always felt that ninjas fit bet with Vydar's tricky and mercenary natures. The one-Ninja-Hero-for-each-general thing does not mean anything to me since Kantono-dono isn't even a Ninja.

Changing the general to Vydar did open up a minor synergy with the Command Courier. Not an abusable one due to the "after revealing an order marker" language, but one that has possible potential use as a defender, particularly in the double-subset heroes-only one-general-only games. I did a bit of testing with that in mind and my findings are what you would expect. Being able to slip a figure through enemy lines with Phantom Walk and tie up range figures with a Counterstriker can be worth something. Worth, oh, 60 points maybe. At 120 points the Jonin just doesn't cut it. Heck, I'd rather take Otonashi to do the tie-up trick and use the remaining 110 points on something else.

Thus, I feel that Kantono Daishi is all of the good parts of Dashi Tokainto and none of the bad. As such I'm happy to say...

I vote :up: to induct Kantono Daishi into the SoV.
 
Kantono Daishi by qt.bangerang has received 4 YEA votes (nyys, 1Mmirg, Super Bouge, and Scytale) and moves to unified fanscape review.

Threforian Raptor by Fi Skitara has received 2 NO votes (Scytale and qt.bangerang) and is removed from the process.
 
Brimstone by Scytale

Balance
At first the 18 hex blast radius worried, but the requirement of Heat markers to use Heat Blast Special Attack really helps to keep that in check. The other aspect that helps to keep Heat Blast Special Attack is to get a full attack of 4, it requires using him 5 times for the first full attack and then 4 times every time after that. This creates some interesting playing situations … do I try to build up for the full power Heat Blast Special Attack, or use it before when I have say 2 or 3 markers on him?

Theme
I really like the feel of Brimstone and his special attack; it fits Valkrill’s persona of chaos and willingness to sacrifice your own units perfectly. Brimstone also fits along the D&D lines for a volcanic dragon too.

Availability
Doing a quick search I was able to find around 70 of them out there. 40 on Auggie’s … he had 63 when it was nominated and I feel a lot of those have gone to ‘scapers. So, easy pass on this.

Playability
The obvious choice here is to use him with the Greenscales, and rightly so with their bonding. This also helps get him the needed activations to build up the markers for Heat Blast Special Attack. However, Brimstone is a very unique dragon. He doesn’t have the long range as most, or the characteristics of Charos. Because of this uniqueness he puts a tactical twist on the Greenscale army, making you play them as a Guerrilla attack type army more often, than as a typical screen for your dragon.
Playing Brimstone is a challenge, he requires you make sacrifices whether you want to or not. I really found myself using two strategies when playing with him.

First, advance as fast as you can while building up heat makers to go off in the enemy start zone targeting as many units as possible. This was only effective against large, hoard style armies that can’t be moved out fast enough. When Heat Blast worked (rolling 3 or 4 skulls) it was devastating but when you whiff a role your 150 point dragon is now surrounded with no support.

Second, only let your markers build to around 2 and use him more as a shock wave, hoping your own Greenscales roll well enough to survive as your enemy surrounds him. This works okay against low defense units but in the end I typically found myself trying to move him into a position to target as many units as possible before he went down.

So, when playing him effectively it really came down to the support units in your army. I found myself taking fewer Greenscales to be able to use better units as support, because most likely you are going to lose Brimstone and once you do those Greenscales aren’t nearly as effective. Choosing your support units really helps you decide how you are going to play him…Raelin to help his staying power, Saylind to teleport him out of danger once he use Heat Blast, Kelda to heal him, or ranged units. Personally, taking multiple ranged units worked the best; they helped draw attention away from Brimstone while shooting from behind your moving time bomb.

Summary
Brimstone is a swingy unit, this will cause some to dislike him, but it is nothing new. Heroscape is full of swingy units and a lot of the customs out there try to “fix” these units. But that defeats the purpose a high reward/risk unit. I found his unreliability to fit the personality and theme of the figure and the general he follows. Brimstone is a refreshing unit with a nice twist on Deathwalker like power. He requires you to do more than just sit behind a screen and wait for your enemy to come to you.

I vote YES to induct the Brimstone into the SoV.
 
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