-
Welcome to the Heroscapers 2.0 site! We've still got some dust to clear and adjustments to make, including launching a new front page, but we hope you enjoy the improvements to the site. Please post your feedback and any issues you encounter in this thread.
Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion
- Thread starter Scytale
- Start date
superfrog
This is merely a joke.
Hoplitron by dok
Balance
At first glance the Hoplitrons look too good to be true. Bonding, 6 defense, 4 attack, large figure, and a special that messes with your opponent’s figures for only 35 points? Seems very powerful. However, when compared to some other units, it seems much more reasonable. The hoplitron has a few roles, and I will examine each individually in terms of balance.
First, as a melee filler, let’s compare 2x Hoplitron to Martial la Hire. They both have the potential for 2 attacks, though Hoplitrons get it more often. Martial has 5 life and 4 defense vs. 2 figures with 1 life and 6 defense. Hoplitrons tie in with more army choices, such as X17. On the whole, it’s pretty even.
Second, as an army core, we can compare to Minions. Very similar stats, similar bonding-with-unused-figures abilities. The minions have -1 move and flying, have deadly strike/2 attack vs. 4 attack. Shield Push is a small bonus, as is the slightly lower cost of 3x Hoplitrons to a squad of minions, and the Hoplitron’s large/soulborg immunities. The Hoplitron’s biggest advantage over Minions is the ability to tie into an army more nicely. Major X17, while by no means good, is much easier to work into an army than Taelord or Runa, who benefit from Utgar’s Orders. Minions still have a slight advantage, but relatively even.
Theme
The Hoplitron is the first common hero soulborg seen thus far in ‘Scape, but given the nature of soulborgs, it really makes sense to have a common hero soulborg. Shield Push is a very thematic power, and brings out the pose of the Hoplitron. His colors work very well with Vydar. Some of my fellow judges expressed a concern with the Hoplitron being a Champion, and although many other classes would be applicable, Champion seems fine. They have high attack and defense and so fit the role of a champion, based on their powerful stats, if not perfectly in all areas.
Creativity
Shield Push is a neat way to capture the pose of the sculpt and is based off the existing mechanic of Shurrak’s Knockback, so it fits well. Melee Soulborg Bonding is a good way to pull in some under-used figures without giving high-powered units, like the Q brothers, any sort of bonding.
Playability
As mentioned above, the Hoplitron can fill two roles, either as filler, usually at 70 points, or as an army core, at 105-175 points. Despite their high defense, they can be worn down fairly consistently by many attacks. Even when boosted by Raelin to have up to 9 defense, ranged squads demolish Hoplitrons, who are very slow, but most melee squads are on par as far as playability. Dwarves are very good against a hoplitron army, because the Hoplitrons are large, but other melee squads are very comparable. The best use of the Hoplitrons that I found was at ~3x with X17. Getting just hoplitrons really did not work well, because with only one life, they aren’t feasible, and can die from just one bad roll. Even though they are cheaper that the Deathwalkers, who also have the low life/high defense combination, because they are melee, they have a problem staying away from multiple attacks per turn. Deathwalker 7000, although he could be used in an army with Hoplitrons, really is not useful enough to warrant the points. X17 is preferable in almost every situation. Although X17 only gets an extra attack of 4 due to the Hoplitron bonding, it also gives him greater OM flexibility, allowing an additional attack and not wasting the OM if X17 is destroyed, and the Hoplitrons can set up Cyberclaw with Shield Push. It is really important to play the Hoplitron conservatively, as overextending can get your entire contingent of Hoplitrons demolished, one at a time. Shield Push, although it is a cool power, is not super useful. It does come into play sometimes, pushing opponent’s figures off height, off a glyph, or into Cyberclaw, but usually it doesn’t change the game very much. The hoplitrons really do well in a heroes-only format, because they tend to stay alive against the fewer attacks typical of heroes. When the hoplitrons shine, they can do a terrific amount of damage, but usually they are not quite so flashy.
Summary
The Hoplitron, Vydar’s most recent Soulborg, fills in a ‘Scape hole, and provides a variety of uses and strategies. Although the Hoplitron generally won’t be the show-stopper, it can compete with every mid-range army and can occasionally beat some top-tier armies. I enjoyed playing the Hoplitron, and think it is a worthy addition to the canon.
I vote YES to induct the Hoplitron into the Soldiers of Valhalla
Balance
At first glance the Hoplitrons look too good to be true. Bonding, 6 defense, 4 attack, large figure, and a special that messes with your opponent’s figures for only 35 points? Seems very powerful. However, when compared to some other units, it seems much more reasonable. The hoplitron has a few roles, and I will examine each individually in terms of balance.
First, as a melee filler, let’s compare 2x Hoplitron to Martial la Hire. They both have the potential for 2 attacks, though Hoplitrons get it more often. Martial has 5 life and 4 defense vs. 2 figures with 1 life and 6 defense. Hoplitrons tie in with more army choices, such as X17. On the whole, it’s pretty even.
Second, as an army core, we can compare to Minions. Very similar stats, similar bonding-with-unused-figures abilities. The minions have -1 move and flying, have deadly strike/2 attack vs. 4 attack. Shield Push is a small bonus, as is the slightly lower cost of 3x Hoplitrons to a squad of minions, and the Hoplitron’s large/soulborg immunities. The Hoplitron’s biggest advantage over Minions is the ability to tie into an army more nicely. Major X17, while by no means good, is much easier to work into an army than Taelord or Runa, who benefit from Utgar’s Orders. Minions still have a slight advantage, but relatively even.
Theme
The Hoplitron is the first common hero soulborg seen thus far in ‘Scape, but given the nature of soulborgs, it really makes sense to have a common hero soulborg. Shield Push is a very thematic power, and brings out the pose of the Hoplitron. His colors work very well with Vydar. Some of my fellow judges expressed a concern with the Hoplitron being a Champion, and although many other classes would be applicable, Champion seems fine. They have high attack and defense and so fit the role of a champion, based on their powerful stats, if not perfectly in all areas.
Creativity
Shield Push is a neat way to capture the pose of the sculpt and is based off the existing mechanic of Shurrak’s Knockback, so it fits well. Melee Soulborg Bonding is a good way to pull in some under-used figures without giving high-powered units, like the Q brothers, any sort of bonding.
Playability
As mentioned above, the Hoplitron can fill two roles, either as filler, usually at 70 points, or as an army core, at 105-175 points. Despite their high defense, they can be worn down fairly consistently by many attacks. Even when boosted by Raelin to have up to 9 defense, ranged squads demolish Hoplitrons, who are very slow, but most melee squads are on par as far as playability. Dwarves are very good against a hoplitron army, because the Hoplitrons are large, but other melee squads are very comparable. The best use of the Hoplitrons that I found was at ~3x with X17. Getting just hoplitrons really did not work well, because with only one life, they aren’t feasible, and can die from just one bad roll. Even though they are cheaper that the Deathwalkers, who also have the low life/high defense combination, because they are melee, they have a problem staying away from multiple attacks per turn. Deathwalker 7000, although he could be used in an army with Hoplitrons, really is not useful enough to warrant the points. X17 is preferable in almost every situation. Although X17 only gets an extra attack of 4 due to the Hoplitron bonding, it also gives him greater OM flexibility, allowing an additional attack and not wasting the OM if X17 is destroyed, and the Hoplitrons can set up Cyberclaw with Shield Push. It is really important to play the Hoplitron conservatively, as overextending can get your entire contingent of Hoplitrons demolished, one at a time. Shield Push, although it is a cool power, is not super useful. It does come into play sometimes, pushing opponent’s figures off height, off a glyph, or into Cyberclaw, but usually it doesn’t change the game very much. The hoplitrons really do well in a heroes-only format, because they tend to stay alive against the fewer attacks typical of heroes. When the hoplitrons shine, they can do a terrific amount of damage, but usually they are not quite so flashy.
Summary
The Hoplitron, Vydar’s most recent Soulborg, fills in a ‘Scape hole, and provides a variety of uses and strategies. Although the Hoplitron generally won’t be the show-stopper, it can compete with every mid-range army and can occasionally beat some top-tier armies. I enjoyed playing the Hoplitron, and think it is a worthy addition to the canon.
I vote YES to induct the Hoplitron into the Soldiers of Valhalla
DanieLoche
Marcel Marceau
Hoplitron's passing through the process?? 
Hive Lord 1233
New member
superfrog
This is merely a joke.
For those looking to pick up the Hoplitron, I just checked availability:
46 visible at abprices, not including paizo
11 at the eBay troll and toad store listed there.
37 at the paizo store
20 at the live2play games eBay store
5 at Lee's clix eBay store
4 at the original now and then eBay store
1 in the last store, which is Australian
giving a grand total of 124 still available, just on abprices.
46 visible at abprices, not including paizo
11 at the eBay troll and toad store listed there.
37 at the paizo store
20 at the live2play games eBay store
5 at Lee's clix eBay store
4 at the original now and then eBay store
1 in the last store, which is Australian
giving a grand total of 124 still available, just on abprices.
Seb from space
Active member
Hoplitron is a very nice hero. We bought 3 hoplitron. We've tried to play with them and X17...
qt.bangerang
has been BANNED
deleted
Although I like all of the changes to this design and think it is headed in the right direction, most of my biggest concerns are still unassuaged.I would like to nominate the new and improved Kantono Daishi.
Figure used:
League Assassin #004 Brave and the Bold HeroclixSpoiler Alert!
Alternative figures (just different color schemes)
The Sensei #026 Brave and the Bold Heroclix (blue version)
League Elite #011 Brave and the Bold Heroclix (red version)
Availability:Spoiler Alert!
Bio:Spoiler Alert!
I vote
to review Kantono Daishi.
All of my concerns I wrote about in my vote on the first version of the figure have been fixed: the ordering marker wording of Dishonorable Leadership, the choice of general, and the name. (Except that he has both a surname and given name, but the bio handles that.) I am happy to give a
to review Kantono Daishi
to review Kantono Daishi
Arrow Grut
Treasure Quest Champion!
Capsocrates, I understand your concern, but I think him being hard to take out is a little in order considering who is under his command. He makes an excellent endgame figure, something that I feel is needed as your army will mostly consist of a small band of tricky but albeit frail and dice dependent ninjas if you wish to get the most out of Daishi. His effectiveness is really only limited to endgame if you want to get every possible turn out of him as well.Although I like all of the changes to this design and think it is headed in the right direction, most of my biggest concerns are still unassuaged.I would like to nominate the new and improved Kantono Daishi.
Figure used:
League Assassin #004 Brave and the Bold HeroclixSpoiler Alert!
Alternative figures (just different color schemes)
The Sensei #026 Brave and the Bold Heroclix (blue version)
League Elite #011 Brave and the Bold Heroclix (red version)
Availability:Spoiler Alert!
Bio:Spoiler Alert!
I vote
superfrog
This is merely a joke.
If I were you, I'd just wait and see
If those judges responsible for Kantono Daishi want to run him through abbreviated (maybe no) testing, they'll do so. If not, you might have to wait a bit.
Kantano Daishi by qt.bangerang has received 5 Yea votes for review (Scytale, nyys, Mmirg1, superfrog, and Super Bogue) and moves on in the process.
nyys
quoting myself - insanity beckons
Kantano Daishi by qt.bangerang
I was very happy to see qt turn this unit back around so quickly for resubmission. There are two big changes to this unit and one minor one from the original. The minor change is the units name. Still gives the same flavor as far as I'm concerned, so no worries there.
Onto the big changes:
The obvious one is the change from Valkrill to Vydar. As I mentioned in my original review my first choice would be Utgar, but I have no problem with Daishi joining the ranks of Vydar. Vydar has always seemed to toe the line between being good and evil, or maybe a better description is less good. So, IMO, I see no theme break here at all. I understand part of the reasoning for his original choice of Valkrill since they don't yet have a ninja, but I don't think that's a good reason to 'force' a unit in there (not to say qt did that here).
The other big change is in the wording of Dishonerable Leadership, which changed from "After taking a turn..." to "When revealing an order marker..." This was a must needed revision to avoid any double bonding, which in Vydar's case would have been with the Command Courier. This particular instance of a double bond doesn't look like it would have been too big a deal since the CC has to give up his attack to order another unit and Daishi still can't order other Ninjas around if he's engaged so there's really not a lot of extra things happening in this case, but it's still a good idea to word things this way for any future units that may come down the line and keep double bonding out of the game alltogether.
All other Vydar specific powers have no effect on Daishi (Agent Skahen, Blastatrons, Laglor), so no worries there, which also means further testing is unecessary.
I'll point everyone to my original review of Dashi since all points (other than Valkrill) are still valid.
I vote YES to induct Kantano Daishi into the SoV.
I was very happy to see qt turn this unit back around so quickly for resubmission. There are two big changes to this unit and one minor one from the original. The minor change is the units name. Still gives the same flavor as far as I'm concerned, so no worries there.
Onto the big changes:
The obvious one is the change from Valkrill to Vydar. As I mentioned in my original review my first choice would be Utgar, but I have no problem with Daishi joining the ranks of Vydar. Vydar has always seemed to toe the line between being good and evil, or maybe a better description is less good. So, IMO, I see no theme break here at all. I understand part of the reasoning for his original choice of Valkrill since they don't yet have a ninja, but I don't think that's a good reason to 'force' a unit in there (not to say qt did that here).
The other big change is in the wording of Dishonerable Leadership, which changed from "After taking a turn..." to "When revealing an order marker..." This was a must needed revision to avoid any double bonding, which in Vydar's case would have been with the Command Courier. This particular instance of a double bond doesn't look like it would have been too big a deal since the CC has to give up his attack to order another unit and Daishi still can't order other Ninjas around if he's engaged so there's really not a lot of extra things happening in this case, but it's still a good idea to word things this way for any future units that may come down the line and keep double bonding out of the game alltogether.
All other Vydar specific powers have no effect on Daishi (Agent Skahen, Blastatrons, Laglor), so no worries there, which also means further testing is unecessary.
I'll point everyone to my original review of Dashi since all points (other than Valkrill) are still valid.
I vote YES to induct Kantano Daishi into the SoV.
DanieLoche
Marcel Marceau
The fact that now, Dashi can't escape from the engagement to use his Disonorable Leadership will weakened him, no?
DanieLoche
Marcel Marceau
... Miss readed the new card, sorry.
(I though that now he uses the bonding before his turn, as for a basic bonding... but no, never mind. ^^" )
(I though that now he uses the bonding before his turn, as for a basic bonding... but no, never mind. ^^" )