Smart Mouth Responses to Innocent Questions

[Grungebob]

I know that we do get many new members who are asking questions that have been asked numerous times in the past or seem obvious. It is becoming way too unfriendly around here with how we are responding to these members. These smart mouthed responses and hostile dog-pilings have to stop.

Before you type up some venomous response to one of these poor sods, please ask yourself: How is my response helping this community? Am I being welcoming? Whose needs are being met?

I'm not commanding this, but asking you all as a favor to please quit belittling folks for asking questions.

 

[Malechi]

Oh, man!
* Malechi kicks a rock as he heads to stand in the corner ... AGAIN. *

 

[bunjee]

Thank you for mentioning this, Grungebob.

 

[Sherman Davies]

Thank you for mentioning this, Grungebob.

Ditto. This is the only forum I've ever done anything more than lurk in, and that's because it seemed to have a pretty friendly atmosphere.

And because I'm a hopeless Heroscape addict. If I could shoot up liquid plastic minis between my toes, I would.

 

[Grungebob]

Well I feel it is our duty to collect all those folks who are just starting to play Heroscape, and turn them in to junkies like us... Being mean to them, undermines that objective.

 

[rdhight]

At the same time, I think we need a good way to (gently!) reprimand people who post questions that can be answered directly from the rulebook or cards. If you look at this thread, it's obvious that the first two posters did not even bother to read the rulebook, or if they read, did not understand. In this one, Cavalier tried to educate the first poster a little bit by showing him where the answers were, but no luck. At some point, people are going to signal a little disapproval, and I think they have the right to do that. We shouldn't be mean, but we shouldn't have to pretend it's good behavior, either. We need to correct both the rudeness of the answer and the ignorance or laziness of the question.

I'm fine with not mouthing off to people who ask such questions. I don't come to this forum because I want to see, or take part in, flamewars. But while we're being civil and helpful in these threads, we need to civilly and helpfully indicate that yes, you did embarass yourself and yes, we do expect you to read the manuals and cards and comprehend them!

Maybe we need a stickied basic faq, made up only of questions that are answered in the rules, on the cards, or in official rulings posted on this site. How do common squads work? Do special attacks get height advantage? Can my Zombies eat my own Marro Warriors? Each answer could very prominently display the source of the information, so that while the newcomers are getting their questions answered (politely, very very politely!), they're also learning where to go with further questions. Then when one of these threads comes up, refer the poster to the Basic FAQ and BAM! Lock it. Yes, I realize we have a lot of helpful information on here, but it's written with the assumption that the reader knows the rules. We have a lot of Heroscape 101 information that picks up where the rules leave off, but we need something more remedial, like a 100-level class. READ THIS FIRST! I would be more than happy to take a crack at a first draft of such a FAQ if you think one would help.

 

[ThrasherDarkrai]

At the same time, I think we need a good way to (gently!) reprimand people who post questions that can be answered directly from the rulebook or cards. If you look at this thread, it's obvious that the first two posters did not even bother to read the rulebook, or if they read, did not understand. In this one, Cavalier tried to educate the first poster a little bit by showing him where the answers were, but no luck. At some point, people are going to signal a little disapproval, and I think they have the right to do that. We shouldn't be mean, but we shouldn't have to pretend it's good behavior, either. We need to correct both the rudeness of the answer and the ignorance or laziness of the question.

I'm fine with not mouthing off to people who ask such questions. I don't come to this forum because I want to see, or take part in, flamewars. But while we're being civil and helpful in these threads, we need to civilly and helpfully indicate that yes, you did embarass yourself and yes, we do expect you to read the manuals and cards and comprehend them!

Maybe we need a stickied basic faq, made up only of questions that are answered in the rules, on the cards, or in official rulings posted on this site. How do common squads work? Do special attacks get height advantage? Can my Zombies eat my own Marro Warriors? Each answer could very prominently display the source of the information, so that while the newcomers are getting their questions answered (politely, very very politely!), they're also learning where to go with further questions. Then when one of these threads comes up, refer the poster to the Basic FAQ and BAM! Lock it. Yes, I realize we have a lot of helpful information on here, but it's written with the assumption that the reader knows the rules. We have a lot of Heroscape 101 information that picks up where the rules leave off, but we need something more remedial, like a 100-level class. READ THIS FIRST! I would be more than happy to take a crack at a first draft of such a FAQ if you think one would help.

While that sounds good on paper, if the people in those two cases were too lazy to even read a rulebook and card, respectively, I don't think it would help much then. It sounds nice, but who garuntees they read it? We need that kind of garuntee for that to work. It's nice if you have them read it, and in fact works very well then, but the problem is getting them to read it in the first place.

 

[that guy]

Speak of the Devil...

 

[rdhight]

While that sounds good on paper, if the people in those two cases were too lazy to even read a rulebook and card, respectively, I don't think it would help much then. It sounds nice, but who garuntees they read it? We need that kind of garuntee for that to work. It's nice if you have them read it, and in fact works very well then, but the problem is getting them to read it in the first place.

Yes, that is a problem. No one thing is going to solve it, but we do some things to help ourselves:

1. We can sticky it with a READ BEFORE POSTING in the title.
2. When someone posts a question answered in it, we can make sure to not answer the question right there, but link to the FAQ, so they've got to read it.
3. Aldin could plug the Much Too Frequently Asked Questions page in his greetings, or in the welcome message that he already directs people to.

We still won't stop all the pointless threads, but that might get us part of the way.

 

[brickman1444]

I beleive these FAQ threads have been tried before and never seem to work. Maybe Aldin or someone else who likes to greet people could send a pm with the faq.

 

[Sherman Davies]

At the same time, I think we need a good way to (gently!) reprimand people who post questions that can be answered directly from the rulebook or cards. If you look at this thread, it's obvious that the first two posters did not even bother to read the rulebook, or if they read, did not understand. In this one, Cavalier tried to educate the first poster a little bit by showing him where the answers were, but no luck. At some point, people are going to signal a little disapproval, and I think they have the right to do that. We shouldn't be mean, but we shouldn't have to pretend it's good behavior, either.

Less-than-complete understanding of the rules is bad behavior? Since when?

Look, I'm as big a proponent of reading comprehension as anyone and as much of a rules lawyer as the best of 'em, but we're all human and we all make mistakes. In the two situations you cited, I don't think that it was "obvious" that the posters didn't read the rules. It was "obvious" (as you point out) that they didn't understand them. Big difference, and that should change how we as a community respond to them. What I would have done in those instances was answer their question and inform them that a careful reading of the rules takes care of 99% of all such questions. I would then cross my fingers and hope they get the message. Posting pictures of a couple of army cards and presenting it as a puzzle to be solved isn't very friendly or helpful.

 

[Revdyer]

Thank you for the reminder, Grungebob.

Nothing more really needs to be said, I believe.

(And, "yes," if the person has 200 posts in three days and is asking, "What are teh blew diz 4?" you can make fun of him or her all you want to.)

 

[rdhight]

At the same time, I think we need a good way to (gently!) reprimand people who post questions that can be answered directly from the rulebook or cards. If you look at this thread, it's obvious that the first two posters did not even bother to read the rulebook, or if they read, did not understand. In this one, Cavalier tried to educate the first poster a little bit by showing him where the answers were, but no luck. At some point, people are going to signal a little disapproval, and I think they have the right to do that. We shouldn't be mean, but we shouldn't have to pretend it's good behavior, either.

Less-than-complete understanding of the rules is bad behavior? Since when?

I didn't say that less-than-complete understanding of the rules is bad behavior. If it sounded like that, I was unclear. On the contrary, I think the number of after-the-fact rulings that customer service has disgorged over the relatively short lifetime of Heroscape is evidence that no one outside Hasbro has a truly complete understanding of the rules. Even now there are things that no one in the playing public really knows for sure. And there's plenty that I don't know as well. But I definitely think it's bad behavior to start a new thread asking for information that is found in the manual or on the cards. We shouldn't be rude to people who do it, but we should correct them, guide them away from doing it again.

Posting pictures of a couple of army cards and presenting it as a puzzle to be solved isn't very friendly or helpful.

I couldn't disagree with you more. I think Cavalier's response in that thread was a better one than just answering the question would have been. He didn't put him down, didn't smart off, but he showed him where he was wrong. If I had more patience, I'd do the same thing myself.

 

[ninthdoc]

I'm glad I haven't been here in several days. (That way, I know he's not talking to me. )

 

[Sherman Davies]

Posting pictures of a couple of army cards and presenting it as a puzzle to be solved isn't very friendly or helpful.

I couldn't disagree with you more. I think Cavalier's response in that thread was a better one than just answering the question would have been.

You might be able to argue that it was a better response, or even a helpful one, but you'll never convince me it was friendly.

He didn't put him down, didn't smart off, but he showed him where he was wrong. If I had more patience, I'd do the same thing myself.

That's where we may have to agree to disagree. In my experience, the people who are most gifted at bringing the snark can do it without being obvious about it. It's not hard to put down a newb in such a way that only those in the know realize what's going on.

 

[Hex_Enduction_Hour]

Well said, GB.

It may drive some of us hardcore fans insane to see these redundant questions, but lighten up on the snappy responses.
You come off as @sses.


There are still people (and young ones at that!) who are new to a forum experience. As well, if you visit several different forums, you'll find they can be run and/or navigable in entirely different ways. Finding information can be a time-involved task for whoever may be searching.

We all should be HAPPY we have people coming to us to ask questions and keeping the production of the game steady. I love to see the members jump in and lend a hand understanding the game, but I'm severely disheartened with the image of this fan site with some of the crapholes start giving their all-encompassing knowledge with a gratuitous side of attitude.

It's like a bully mentatlity to jump on someone the way folks around here love to do.
I like this game and community a lot, but sometimes I wonder who the heck I'm spending my time with.

 

[rdhight]

Posting pictures of a couple of army cards and presenting it as a puzzle to be solved isn't very friendly or helpful.

I couldn't disagree with you more. I think Cavalier's response in that thread was a better one than just answering the question would have been.

You might be able to argue that it was a better response, or even a helpful one, but you'll never convince me it was friendly.

There's nothing friendly about an admin locking someone's thread or banning him, either, but sometimes it has to happen for the boards to go on being a good place to visit. Sometimes the response that's most friendly isn't the most appropriate.

He didn't put him down, didn't smart off, but he showed him where he was wrong. If I had more patience, I'd do the same thing myself.

That's where we may have to agree to disagree. In my experience, the people who are most gifted at bringing the snark can do it without being obvious about it. It's not hard to put down a newb in such a way that only those in the know realize what's going on.

In these cases, I don't want to "bring the snark" in such a way that my victim doesn't know he's been hit; I do want him to know that I wish he would find his answers another way. It's good to be polite, but it's bad to withhold the signal of disapproval that might prompt someone to read his manual again or look up a FAQ. Like you say, maybe we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[Sherman Davies]

There's nothing friendly about an admin locking someone's thread or banning him, either, but sometimes it has to happen for the boards to go on being a good place to visit.

A good place to visit for who? For the people who have already been here a while or for everybody? Because if we aren't initially friendly to the newbs, this won't seem like a good place to visit to them.

In these cases, I don't want to "bring the snark" in such a way that my victim doesn't know he's been hit; I do want him to know that I wish he would find his answers another way. It's good to be polite, but it's bad to withhold the signal of disapproval that might prompt someone to read his manual again or look up a FAQ. Like you say, maybe we'll have to agree to disagree.

Maybe you don't bring the snark that way, but others do. Incidentally, you may want to read the words you're choosing. "Victim?" "Hit?" What are we, Heroscape enforcers? Anyway, I fully believe in educating people about the benefits of reading their rules and looking up FAQs. I just don't think a signal of disapproval is necessary to do so. Then again, maybe I haven't dealt with enough people who are consistently and willfully ignorant. If you have, my sympathies.

 

[Agent Minivann]

Be nice? No more piling on? But what if they really deserve it?

Can we at least get a "piling on" smilie?

 

[ninthdoc]

Can we at least get a "piling on" smilie?

 

[Grungebob]

It's simple guys!!! Not hard at all!! Be nice! Be helpful! Or just simply don't post in response to the poor unsuspecting noobs! You can be firm AND helpful!! I know this for a fact. I don't want to see any of you "reprimanding" a person for asking a question YOU might think is dumb. There's just no call for it.

 

[rdhight]

Maybe you don't bring the snark that way, but others do. Incidentally, you may want to read the words you're choosing. "Victim?" "Hit?" What are we, Heroscape enforcers? Anyway, I fully believe in educating people about the benefits of reading their rules and looking up FAQs. I just don't think a signal of disapproval is necessary to do so. Then again, maybe I haven't dealt with enough people who are consistently and willfully ignorant. If you have, my sympathies.

To my mind, snark is something you would "hit" a "victim" with, sure. I don't see the mistake. Maybe what you mean by snarkiness isn't what I thought of.

It's simple guys!!! Not hard at all!! Be nice! Be helpful! Or just simply don't post in response to the poor unsuspecting noobs! You can be firm AND helpful!! I know this for a fact. I don't want to see any of you "reprimanding" a person for asking a question YOU might think is dumb. There's just no call for it.

Reading a card or manual is simple, too. Why are you putting all the pressure on the one who answers the question and none on the one who asks it? If I ask a question that's covered in the manual, and you give a rude reply, we're both wrong. If you're going to stickify your complaint about bad replies, how about some kind of RTFC sticky to combat these stupid questions?

 

[LilNewbie]

Maybe you don't bring the snark that way, but others do. Incidentally, you may want to read the words you're choosing. "Victim?" "Hit?" What are we, Heroscape enforcers? Anyway, I fully believe in educating people about the benefits of reading their rules and looking up FAQs. I just don't think a signal of disapproval is necessary to do so. Then again, maybe I haven't dealt with enough people who are consistently and willfully ignorant. If you have, my sympathies.

To my mind, snark is something you would "hit" a "victim" with, sure. I don't see the mistake. Maybe what you mean by snarkiness isn't what I thought of.

It's simple guys!!! Not hard at all!! Be nice! Be helpful! Or just simply don't post in response to the poor unsuspecting noobs! You can be firm AND helpful!! I know this for a fact. I don't want to see any of you "reprimanding" a person for asking a question YOU might think is dumb. There's just no call for it.

Reading a card or manual is simple, too. Why are you putting all the pressure on the one who answers the question and none on the one who asks it? If I ask a question that's covered in the manual, and you give a rude reply, we're both wrong. If you're going to stickify your complaint about bad replies, how about some kind of RTFC sticky to combat these stupid questions?

You mean something like this:

http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=6970

Newb.

 

[Grungebob]

Maybe you don't bring the snark that way, but others do. Incidentally, you may want to read the words you're choosing. "Victim?" "Hit?" What are we, Heroscape enforcers? Anyway, I fully believe in educating people about the benefits of reading their rules and looking up FAQs. I just don't think a signal of disapproval is necessary to do so. Then again, maybe I haven't dealt with enough people who are consistently and willfully ignorant. If you have, my sympathies.

To my mind, snark is something you would "hit" a "victim" with, sure. I don't see the mistake. Maybe what you mean by snarkiness isn't what I thought of.

It's simple guys!!! Not hard at all!! Be nice! Be helpful! Or just simply don't post in response to the poor unsuspecting noobs! You can be firm AND helpful!! I know this for a fact. I don't want to see any of you "reprimanding" a person for asking a question YOU might think is dumb. There's just no call for it.

Reading a card or manual is simple, too. Why are you putting all the pressure on the one who answers the question and none on the one who asks it? If I ask a question that's covered in the manual, and you give a rude reply, we're both wrong. If you're going to stickify your complaint about bad replies, how about some kind of RTFC sticky to combat these stupid questions?

You mean something like this:

http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=6970

Newb.

Yes exactly Thanks Newb. Perhaps you rdhight could brush up a bit on what we already have available here. Like I said, if you can't answer the persons question with a kind and respectful response, whether you think it is a stupid one or not, then simply do not respond to it.

 

[Dictatorbilbo]

for those who need a little extra help being nice ;

Hello, insert_name_here! I'm glad that you came here for your Heroscape Question Needs!

The answer to your question is yes/no/other, as illustrated in the following;

insert_card/rulebook_quote

While the crew here at Heroscapers encourages new players and their questions, we would appreciate it a ton if you would take the time to fully read the rule book/cards. Many questions can be resolved through this easy and enjoyable exercise! But, if they can't, we are more than happy to field your questions!

Thank you, and Have a Super-Splendid Day!

~insert_name_here, stealing Aldin's thing.