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Safety In Meeting Online Friends In Real Life?

funrun

funrun

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Because of the recent incident about Ultradoug—myself, ninthdoc, truth, and others—hope no one has been scared away from meeting other 'scapers in the future. Just as we Americans have responded to terrorist attacks not by becoming recluses in our homes, but by being smarter about the world around us, so I hope we Heroscapers also become smarter about talking to others online and meeting them in person.

After 9 months of secrets, I would now like to tell all that the incident that ninthdoc refered to for the first time publicly today in his safety post here
ninthdoc said:
The first time was on heroscapehq.com. Using only methods that were available to anyone who knew where to look online, I discovered that one of our members, who had been attending events at which children were present, was to attend a court session as a defendant in a case in which he had been accused of sexual assault of a child.
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actually was brought to ninthdoc's attention because I suspected something was wrong with someone here and asked ninthdoc for help (as I recommend anyone should do.) My very first intuition of this person was that they were a sexual creep, but everyone here gets to know each other and pretty soon it feels like a big family, then months later I found out I was initially more right than I cared to know.

I will also add that Ultradoug had given me a few orange warning flags over my months of knowing him, and for this reason amongst many others, I purposely avoided giving UD my name, a photo of my face, my IM name, or any email address of mine (even the junk one). Now I find out that these little hints were once again more correct than I cared to know. (Given this alarming track record I seem to have going, I will add that no one else here has made me feel the way I did about these two.)

Now comes the interesting part I want all to note—this first incident happened 9 months ago, before I had ever met any Heroscapers in person or given any of them any personal info about me. One would think that as a young female online, one who was initially so cautious of what she thought was a stereotypical creepy internet gamer group that she didn't even have an avatar for her first month as a member :))), would slink into a hole and not want to talk to anyone here again, much less meet anyone in person.

No, instead I felt empowered by what had happened. I was glad to know I should trust my instincts, but I also took more precautions in the future, especially considering every scaper I have met I was always going by myself to meet the group. Since this first incident snafu, I have met more scapers in real life than perhaps anyone here, and most certainly I have met more across the US than anyone else. By this I mean not just people from across the country, but I mean I literally met them in their own states. Every scaper I have met (I got lucky and barely missed meeting UD) has made sure that I had fun and felt safe in doing so. I would like to commend these groups for that by mentioning them here: Denver, Dallas, and Ohio.

My point to all of this is that I have had tons of fun in all my travels with all of the 'scapers I have met. I just encourage everyone to be more careful about their privacy. Just because you are male does not mean you are safe, and I am not just talking about sexual predators, but you never know who is wanting to steal something from you or even take your identity, whether it is your online persona or your wallet as you sit at the gaming table. I look forward to meeting many more of you in the future.

Sincerely,
funrun

(hehe, did you think after all of that I would actually give out my real name?)
 
funrun, I'm glad that you can illustrate that being more cautious does not mean that we should close ourselves off completely. This is exactly what I'm driving at. Use good judgement, but enjoy life.

When you begin denying yourself your own life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness, that's when the bad guys win.
 
Thanks Fun for posting this, as this is precicely something that I was thinking about.

Although I have not posted on the other thread, I have read it completely.

After meeting some new people at our recent tournament, I was excited to branch out and meet some new people, perhaps invite them to my home, then after reading Sky's post it gave me pause to the point were I almost decided not to.

I met Pilgrim through Scapers and frappers and look what we accomplished.

I have been in contact via telephone and pm of another member since the tourny and we plan on hanging out for a casual day of scaping.

I decided you can't live in fear of what might happen...but you definatly need to be aware of what can happen.

Thanks for the post.

-Prime
 
I haven't posted on any of the threads related to the recent incident (mostly because the majority of what's been said I agree with, and do laud how it has been handled publicly and presumably privately), but I'm glad to see this thread surface!

We need to be cautious and educated and act according to our comfort with the risk. I've met several people in the area due to this site at public places and become at least good acquaintances with all of them, and becoming good friends with a few of them (due to time and probability constraints, not my "excessive deviancy" intiution - otherwise, I'd be good friends with everyone I've met in this way...)

Anyway, just chiming in to echo funrun's piece about keeping up one's guard, but enjoy the community here.
 
Whoa. This is all news to me. I can kind of infer what happened, but what's the story?
 
I would also like to add that everyone should question in your mind the probability of every little thing that any one tells you, especially someone you have only known online.

As a great example of the above, (ninthdoc isn't even aware of what I am about to say. . .) I have been talking to ninthdoc online for an entire year now, and for many months I kept open the possibility that he may not be the cop that he says he is. Not because I had any reason to doubt him, but because at that time I simply had no way of knowing for sure. Over several months I have talked to other people who have met him in person and believed him, so when it came time for me to turn to someone for help, I had to believe that ninthdoc was indeed someone safe I could trust. Even still there was a minute possibility that he could be faking his cop identity to every scaper he had ever met, but finally, at GenCon, I saw with my own eyes his old worn wallet with the badge in it (not because I asked to see it though, so why did he show it to me? hmmmmmmm. . . j/k!) So now with all things considered, I am 99.99999% sure ninthdoc is the cop he says he is. But still, the badge could have been a fake ;).
 
Yeah, I hear you. I have had two gaming parties at my house, and have decided that from now on, if I decide to have another, I'll personally invite people I've already met. Meeting new people should happen in public places. You know, where they can't find your house.

But you should still meet new people!
 
funrun said:
(not because I asked to see it though, so why did he show it to me? hmmmmmmm. . . j/k!)
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I believe I can answer this question. You have shared with me things that you've produced at work, both intentionally and by accident or game ( ;) ). These are things that you are obviously very proud of. My life has changed a lot in the past 10 years, but I still remember just how proud I was of that badge when I earned it. I worked and waited for 5 years to get it. So I wanted to share w/you something that was important in my life. Plus, I figure at some point someone was going to ask me to pony up and prove who I am, so I saved you the uncomfortableness of actually saying, "Are you really a cop, or do you just say that for the internet?"

I'm actually very glad that you brought this up. Someone once said that it would be nice if other officers would reveal themselves online. The reason that I don't think this would make a difference is b/c you never really know. It is this very wariness that I'm advocating. So you go on being 99.99999% sure. I wouldn't have it any other way.
 
Wonderful post Fun. Glad to know that the creepies don't win. and glad to hear, what it sounds like to me, that our community is closer then ever, and that gives a sense of well being to me. But I can't loose sight of the possibilities of bad people.

I like IMax, prefer to have private get togeathers, as opposed to open an open door policy to my home, as I don't want people I don't know coming anywhere near where I sleep at night, and where my wife and kids feel safe.

Thank you again for all of the effort and energy that goes into making this an open, diverse, and safe place to be, as much as it can be.
 
When Joah came down to stay with us the night before GenCon, I never worried about it for a second, but after talking to my mom about when she said "You are letting someone you have never met come stay with you? What if he kills you?" I made some joke and didn't think about it too much. But as the time came closer and closer I couldn't stop thinking about it. "What if he does kill us?" Ugh, what a thought.

Obviously he didn't kill us. He came down and everything was fine. We played some Scape, had a good time. There are only a few members that I would let come over, let alone stay in my house while I sleep...and now it might be even fewer members that I would let come to my house...
 
I keep trying to reply to this thread and I keep deleting my repsonses before I submit them. I am a knot of emotions right now.

All I can say for sure is that this sucks. It really really sucks. :(
 
nether, I was told the exact same thing by my wife the day that I went to Killeen to pick up UD, with my own son. I began having the same thoughts, which is why I kept calling markwars and Rychean to tell them our progress on the way back. Now, don't I look like the poster child for things you shouldn't do on the internet? :brickwall:

markwars, PM coming.
 
In all honesty, I have zero desire at the moment to meet any of you in person. Is that fair? Nope. Is it irrational? Yup. Is that the opposite of what Funrun and Ninth are advocating? Yup. Do I care? Not really.

My emotional response will ease with time but I guarantee that none of you will see my home until I've gotten to know you a heck of a lot better than I do now.
 
DoesntCompute said:
In all honesty, I have zero desire at the moment to meet any of you in person. Is that fair? Nope. Is it irrational? Yup. Is that the opposite of what Funrun and Ninth are advocating? Yup. Do I care? Not really.

My emotional response will ease with time but I guarantee that none of you will see my home until I've gotten to know you a heck of a lot better than I do now.
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I'm sorry you feel this way, but I understand completely. This is exactly what I had hoped could be avoided by this situation. I fear that the sins of ultradoug will haunt us for quite some time.
 
wisinger said:
I like IMax, prefer to have private get togeathers, as opposed to open an open door policy to my home, as I don't want people I don't know coming anywhere near where I sleep at night, and where my wife and kids feel safe.
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Very true...very true. Nothing has had a greater bearing on my life than an attempted home invasion. Now, sleep is precious. It has been months, we got a dog, AND we moved. But still, evey little noise makes me jump. It sometimes turns into a miserable existance in a way.

Hopefully this effect isn't as dramatic via the internet, but it seems good for the community in a way...raises awareness.

*Sidenote*Funrun, I always got the impression that UD had an abnormal obsession with you.
 
copronymous said:
*Sidenote*Funrun, I always got the impression that UD had an abnormal obsession with you.
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copy - Go back and read his posts, this could be said of almost every user that he knew was female.

anbody - If you're paying attention to my posts, that's the first truly negative thing I've said about him that was an opinion only and not rooted in fact.
 
ninthdoc said:
copronymous said:
*Sidenote*Funrun, I always got the impression that UD had an abnormal obsession with you.
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copy - Go back and read his posts, this could be said of almost every user that he knew was female.

anbody - If you're paying attention to my posts, that's the first truly negative thing I've said about him that was an opinion only and not rooted in fact.
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Now if we are honest with ourselves we will admit that more than one member of this community has gone gaga whenever female members have come around. A rather lengthy thread involving heroscape diva comes to mind.

When something like this comes to light it is easy to go back and read old threads and give them more weight than they deserve. We should just take this for what it is, a reminder to be vigilant to the dangers of online predators and to do what needs to be done to protect our loved ones.

Bannister
 
I personally am not concerned about meeting any 'Scapers in person.

For a variety of reasons. :wink:

(Yes, I know that this is not necessarily the place for levity, but if we allow the circumstances to ALWAYS dictate our actions and change our behaviors then the we lose something in the process. I for one refuse to kowtow to things beyond my control. I prefer to take control and do what is right.)

Buddy Lee
 
I will try to be precise here.. on the point of meeting ppl on the net(I will not comment on the UD situation).

Offhand I've been "online" for well over 10 yrs now, at least 12-14 yrs on the net itself and on bbs/com64 boards before that as a kid.

my exp with meeting ppl? it has gone all ranges, from meeting that chic in college who stalked me and screwed my college acct over to meeting ppl like Doc, Rychaen, basically the whole TX group, including others like Funrun, justjohn, celtic, who are some of the best ppl I know.

my thoughts? am I gonna stop talking to ppl online b/c of the few who are warped/perverted? No I am not.

will I be more cautious than I already am? No, I believe Ive got enough sense to keep an eye of ppl I barely know, etc.

will I meet more ppl in the future? For sure, as the majority of the ppl Ive met have been good, decent, kind-hearted ppl.

and that's the crux...how ye met more warped/perverted(in the bad way that is) than ye have good ppl? if so I'm verra sorry, but it's not how this place really is, at least on the HS boards.

do ye yahoo? Irc? etc? than aye it's likely ye've run across the ppl lookin for booty calls, a quick lay, a hookup, or a green card... it's a given nowadays, and ye just ignore them and find the better ppl like yerself who're lookin for friends and gamers.


what does this mean? it breaks down to I'm not gonna change b/c of one person bad ideas, however it is b/c of them that alot of ppl will change and it won't be for the better, a loss of innocence is alway something to mourn


Rod
 
DoesntCompute said:
In all honesty, I have zero desire at the moment to meet any of you in person. Is that fair? Nope. Is it irrational? Yup. Is that the opposite of what Funrun and Ninth are advocating? Yup. Do I care? Not really.

My emotional response will ease with time but I guarantee that none of you will see my home until I've gotten to know you a heck of a lot better than I do now.
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Yeah? Well I didn't want to meet you either!

I'm just going to take my DSL and go home.

[all jokes. please dont get mad.]
 
markwars said:
I keep trying to reply to this thread and I keep deleting my repsonses before I submit them. I am a knot of emotions right now.

All I can say for sure is that this sucks. It really really sucks. :(
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I know, I know. I agree. I'm just a fanatic for a board game and now I've got to start thinking of this type of stuff. We admins have been discussing where and what to do next. It's a step in the right direction what with everything that has happened, but darn, it's not fun... :(

ninthdoc said:
Use good judgement, but enjoy life.

When you begin denying yourself your own life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness, that's when the bad guys win.
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Totally.
 
It all comes down to awareness of your surroundings. Be observant, be vigilant and be aware, but do not be afraid.

• When meeting new people be aware of the "vibe" you receive from these strangers. Funrun was in touch with her vibes and it lead to the right conclusions, but she didn't live in paranoia she found a way to access and gather information regarding the feelings she felt. She didn't hide away in fear.

• Meet new people in public places first, never invite them to your home as a first meeting place (unless you have your own security staff). HeH did this, the NorCal gamin g group had met the first time at a game shop to play a day of HeroScape. On the next meeting he invited us all to his place for a BBQ, there was only one new player coming ... UD. Oops.

• If you are unsure of a situation bring a friend; if that isn't possible bring a cell phone and have a contact person with scheduled times to call ... and remember to make those calls even if you feel safe!

• A lot of people here have the "It will never happen to me"-attitude which, of course, leaves you open and unprotected. Others have an "I'm not going to meet anyone and stay safe"-attitude, which is just as unhealthy in the long run simply because it leads to an onslaught of paranoia.

Get out there, have fun, and remember to be observant, be vigilant and be aware, but do not be afraid.
 
I invite new people to my home and I feel safe in doing so. I usually invite them when I am inviting other people. I would hate to have not met all the great people I have met through gaming. My friend and I even shared a room at Gen Con with a couple of guys from Mexico that we had never met.

I may be too trusting, but I also feel pretty secure. I have a good alarm system in my house. I also have a dog and a good local police force. I am also fairly well versed in MMA. I feel that anyone that violates my trust will regret it, but I hope that all my new gamer meetings continue to lead to new good friends. :D
 
I haven't posted anything from the other thread, but have read it all. It is quite disturbing to see something like that unfold. Glad Sky handled the situation properly and that we have good admins here to make the scapers community aware of what is possible...

Having recently played in a tournament, I've got to meet some really cool people. And I've been offered by some of these people to hang out for some scapin'. I'm honored by their invitations and can't wait to casually hang out and play a great game we all love. It all comes with instinct... I can tell you this... When my g/f and I played the tournament, by instinct and first impressions of who we thought were some of the sincere, down to earth, cool people, turned out to be the ones that invited her and I to hang out into their homes, which means our gut instincts were correct. It doesn't mean any other members at the tournament are any less good people, it just tells me my awareness is on par. If I felt those who invited me were strange in their mannerisms, I'd decline on their offers.

It's the ones that look, act, and talk off-kilter that prove to be the ones to watch out for. And just as its understandable these people are aware that they'd be letting me into their homes, I too would have to be aware that where I'm going is safe for me as well. As it stands, I feel that I can safely trust those that have invited me. so I guess after all my rambling my point is that FunRun is totally right... It's good to meet cool people, we just all need to be aware. Thanks for everyone doing a good job as a community bringing all their thoughts and points to the table, so everyone is aware of something like this.
 
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