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[Pod 2] Alabaster Sentinels (Rhox Veterans) - Editing

The Book of Alabaster Sentinels

Arena of the Valkyrie Master Set

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JANDAR
Alabaster Sentinels
Animata
Unique Squad
Sentinels
Resolute
MEDIUM 5

LIFE 1
MOVE 4
RANGE 1
ATTACK 3
DEFENSE 4

POINTS 60


Stone Form 2
If there are no revealed order markers on this card, add 2 to the Defense value of this card.

Headlong Charge
An Alabaster Sentinel can add 4 to its Move if it only moves in a straight line this turn.

The figures used for this unit are the Rhox Veterans from Arena of the Planeswalkers.

Bio
Spoiler Alert!


Editing Checklist: https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=2558146&postcount=123

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Re: [Pod 2] Rhox Veterans - Design

Here's my draft of these guys from the Pre-Brainstorming thread:


Rhinos of the Endless Desert

Jandar/Statues/Sentinels/Unique Squad/Dauntless/Medium 6

1 Life/3 Troops/4 Move/1 Range/2 Attack/4 Defense

Living Statues: If there are no revealed order markers on this Army Card, add 2 to the defense of this Army Card. If there are revealed order markers on this Army Card, add 1 to the move of this Army Card for every revealed Order Marker.

Desert Strength: Rhinos of the Endless Desert on a Sand space roll 1 additional combat die when attacking or defending.

70 points


I'll happily edit more in as I find them, but some sort of animated statues has been the general direction most scapers have been comfortable with. We don't have to give Avacyn the same statue powers as the Rhox, but I'll let that pod decide her fate.


I think probably the most important thing to ask ourselves about this design is what should the species actually be? That will tie these guys into whatever backstory, and may eventually result in c3v synergies.


Although my vision was for them (and Avacyn) to come from Valhalla, we can just easily say the statues are Animata from Arctorus or somewhere else, like D&D-land.


*Bold: I realized I never had a class in there lol.
 
Re: [Pod 2] Rhox Veterans - Design

I like the living statue thing, but since these guys are Rhino warriors, but I think they should have some type of automatic shield ability. Below is a draft I made weeks ago:

Greyvox-Stone-Warriors.jpg
 
Re: [Pod 2] Rhox Veterans - Design

The tricky part with calling them anything but statues or some sort is that the figure (and its complete lack of paint) needs to match the design. Without any gray on them, or any sort of color other than monochrome beige, we are kind of stuck calling them statues. We are trying to design the set with as low of a cost of entry as possible, and one of those costs is in time investment. :)
 
Re: [Pod 2] Rhox Veterans - Design

Eh, I dunno, "Stone" in their name kinda helps with that me thinks! (Or perhaps something like "Greyvox Elemental's", or whatever...?)

What about "Stone Warriors of Lindesfarme"...? Or some other desert area of Valhalla!
 
Re: [Pod 2] Rhox Veterans - Design

I'd like to see some kind of "living statues" power that ties these and Avacyn together with a little bit of theme and a little bit of synergy. Here were a couple ideas:

LIVING STATUE POWER 1
After any turn, you may reveal your 'X' Order Marker on this card. While your 'X' Order Marker is revealed on a card with Living Stone, all figures you control with Living Stone add 3 to their Defense and cannot take turns.

This one is more direct synergy. Time it right and have your hero and squad create some bottlenecks and/or tank on a glyph.


LIVING STATUE POWER 2
At the start of each round after placing Order Markers, place a Shield Marker on this card for each Order Marker on it. Add 1 to [this]'s Defense for each Shield Marker on this card. After revealing an Order Marker on this card, flip a Shield Marker over to a Sword Marker. Add 1 to [this]'s Attack for each Sword Marker on this card. At the end of the round, remove all Shield and Sword Markers from this card.

This one is more of a thematic connection, since it's almost anti-synergy, since you only have 4 OMs and therefore 4 markers to go around. As an example, if their base stats were 1A/2D, with all 4 OMs the become 1/6 before revealing any. Revealing the 1 makes them 2/5; 2 = 3/4, 3 = 4/3. We would also only be using 4/5 of the shield/sword markers here, but that's not a problem if we want a single marker to use somewhere else.


On a related note, reusing the species Animata seems very appropriate.
 
Re: [Pod 2] Rhox Veterans - Design

Here's my draft of these guys from the Pre-Brainstorming thread:


Rhinos of the Endless Desert

Jandar/Statues/Sentinels/Unique Squad/Dauntless/Medium 6

1 Life/3 Troops/4 Move/1 Range/2 Attack/4 Defense

Living Statues: If there are no revealed order markers on this Army Card, add 2 to the defense of this Army Card. If there are revealed order markers on this Army Card, add 1 to the move of this Army Card for every revealed Order Marker.

Desert Strength: Rhinos of the Endless Desert on a Sand space roll 1 additional combat die when attacking or defending.

70 points


I'll happily edit more in as I find them, but some sort of animated statues has been the general direction most scapers have been comfortable with. We don't have to give Avacyn the same statue powers as the Rhox, but I'll let that pod decide her fate.


I think probably the most important thing to ask ourselves about this design is what should the species actually be? That will tie these guys into whatever backstory, and may eventually result in c3v synergies.


Although my vision was for them (and Avacyn) to come from Valhalla, we can just easily say the statues are Animata from Arctorus or somewhere else, like D&D-land.


*Bold: I realized I never had a class in there lol.

I definitely like this direction for the Rhox, although I think the Living Statues ability could possibly be improved slightly with the following tweak:

1 Life/3 Troops/6 Move/1 Range/2 Attack/4 Defense

Living Statues: If there are no unrevealed order markers on this Army Card, add 2 to the defense and subtract 2 from the movement of this Army Card. A Rhino cannot make a leaving engagement attack if there are no unrevealed order markers on this card.

It's fairly similar, with a couple key differences.

Obviously the LEA clause is completely new, but I think its good for thematic reasons.

The biggest difference is that this version encourages you to place your "1" on the Rhinos, whereas the previous version encouraged you to place the "3" on the rhinos. However, I think this wording might be a little easier to understand, as it's no longer necessary to check for two slightly different triggers ("If no revealed order markers" then "number of revealed order markers").

I'm still not personally a big fan of a sand-based bonus ability, although I wouldn't dismiss it outright.
 
Re: [Pod 2] Rhox Veterans - Design

I'd like to see some kind of "living statues" power that ties these and Avacyn together with a little bit of theme and a little bit of synergy. Here were a couple ideas:

LIVING STATUE POWER 1
After any turn, you may reveal your 'X' Order Marker on this card. While your 'X' Order Marker is revealed on a card with Living Stone, all figures you control with Living Stone add 3 to their Defense and cannot take turns.

This one is more direct synergy. Time it right and have your hero and squad create some bottlenecks and/or tank on a glyph.


LIVING STATUE POWER 2
At the start of each round after placing Order Markers, place a Shield Marker on this card for each Order Marker on it. Add 1 to [this]'s Defense for each Shield Marker on this card. After revealing an Order Marker on this card, flip a Shield Marker over to a Sword Marker. Add 1 to [this]'s Attack for each Sword Marker on this card. At the end of the round, remove all Shield and Sword Markers from this card.

This one is more of a thematic connection, since it's almost anti-synergy, since you only have 4 OMs and therefore 4 markers to go around. As an example, if their base stats were 1A/2D, with all 4 OMs the become 1/6 before revealing any. Revealing the 1 makes them 2/5; 2 = 3/4, 3 = 4/3. We would also only be using 4/5 of the shield/sword markers here, but that's not a problem if we want a single marker to use somewhere else.


On a related note, reusing the species Animata seems very appropriate.

Definitely agree that animata would be a good fit here as a species.

Of your other proposed abilities, I think I like the first one a bit better? It feels a little more like a "generic" ability that you would expect to see on multiple army cards, whereas the second one seems a little more specialized. I might slightly prefer this wording for the first ability:

LIVING STATUE POWER 1
After any turn, you may reveal your 'X' Order Marker on this card. While your 'X' Order Marker is revealed on a card with Living Stone, all figures you control with Living Stone add 3 to their Defense as long as they have no unrevealed order markers on their army cards.
 
Re: [Pod 2] Rhox Veterans - Design

@NecroBlade , any reason why Avacyn and the Rhinos need to share a power? I get the Rhinos getting something like this (they'll likely only have 1 or two powers), but Avacyn will already have Flying (or something very similar). Giving her a power that only reflects her stone body sadly means we won't have room to really make her play differently from the Rhox. (We can give her a third power, but I personally feel that any third powers should be a bare bones as possible for simplicity within the MS... this isn't the C3G after all).
 
Re: [Pod 2] Rhox Veterans - Design

Not a statue fan power fan, really. I think we need to do more outside the box thinking still, lol.

Elemental ability makes sense, and the Animata does too.
 
Re: [Pod 2] Rhox Veterans - Design

Power name (lol)
Look Left, Look Right
 
Re: [Pod 2] Rhox Veterans - Design

Or here's a longshot...what if we gave Nahiri figure the ability to summon these elemental animata things to the battlefield?

In addition to her flame sword ability, let her work some literal magic and summon these guys....?
 
Re: [Pod 2] Rhox Veterans - Design

Personally I like this statue power the best. It may be a bit wordy, but it doesn't seem overly complicated.

LIVING STATUE POWER 2
At the start of each round after placing Order Markers, place a Shield Marker on this card for each Order Marker on it. Add 1 to [this]'s Defense for each Shield Marker on this card. After revealing an Order Marker on this card, flip a Shield Marker over to a Sword Marker. Add 1 to [this]'s Attack for each Sword Marker on this card. At the end of the round, remove all Shield and Sword Markers from this card.

I don't think we should be trying to design Avacyn with the Rhox. Even if she becomes a statue as well, limiting her abilities to be in line with the Rhox cuts creativity for both units.
 
Re: [Pod 2] Rhox Veterans - Design

@NecroBlade , any reason why Avacyn and the Rhinos need to share a power? I get the Rhinos getting something like this (they'll likely only have 1 or two powers), but Avacyn will already have Flying (or something very similar). Giving her a power that only reflects her stone body sadly means we won't have room to really make her play differently from the Rhox. (We can give her a third power, but I personally feel that any third powers should be a bare bones as possible for simplicity within the MS... this isn't the C3G after all).

They're both statues and I figured it would be another way to introduce mild thematic and mechanical synergy to the set. But there's nothing wrong with 3-power cards either, as long as they're relatively simple (the-artist-formerly-known-as-Atrixus says hi).
 
Re: [Pod 2] Rhox Veterans - Design

FU_SHI.jpg


I did a stone power on a custom a while back. Similar to what we’re discussing.
 
Re: [Pod 2] Rhox Veterans - Design

Personally I like this statue power the best. It may be a bit wordy, but it doesn't seem overly complicated.

LIVING STATUE POWER 2
At the start of each round after placing Order Markers, place a Shield Marker on this card for each Order Marker on it. Add 1 to [this]'s Defense for each Shield Marker on this card. After revealing an Order Marker on this card, flip a Shield Marker over to a Sword Marker. Add 1 to [this]'s Attack for each Sword Marker on this card. At the end of the round, remove all Shield and Sword Markers from this card.


I'd be cool with this. We would need to make sure that stats are in line for them to have up to +4 attack (unless we limit it to 2-3) and -


Typing that out, I realized something wierd. Why would they have a ton of defense only when you have OMs on them, but when they are sleeping they only get barebones defense?


For example, let's say they have base 3 defense (because you can realistically get them to 7 defense with the proposed power). Well, if you aren't putting OMs on them, their defense stays at 3. But since their supposed to be made of stone, they should always have good defense especially when they're sleeping. Seems like a weird interaction to me.


Edit: I get you can drop the X on them for +1 defense, but that makes them only weaker in the long run...

Edit 2: You also don’t need Markers for this power, unless you just want them to be safe from OM removal powers.
 
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Re: [Pod 2] Rhox Veterans - Design

I'm not part of this pod, but I had this idea.

Move 4

Defense 4 or 5

For each revealed order marker on this card lower the defense by 1

You could add an x marker power too. If you reveal the X marker in this card, you may add 1/2 to its move. It could be for just the turn or for the rest of the round.

So in theory, the more usage the weaker it is. And its simple to understand.
 
Re: [Pod 2] Rhox Veterans - Design

What about since they are Rhino figures, (or at least animata/elementals/whatever they are) in the form/shape of rhinos, some kind of charging power is warranted. I like the throw back to the Kozuke power, and to my knowledge no other classic figure has that.

Any thoughts on that specifically?
 
Re: [Pod 2] Rhox Veterans - Design

That’s why I gave my stone power regular defense after they’d “moved” - to signify them moving around “as normal” - and then auto shields when they hadn’t, to signify them turned to stone again. I think we can do this without having to count order markers or use the tokens.

I’d be into a charging power but we may want to differentiate it from the Kozuke.
 
Re: [Pod 2] Rhox Veterans - Design

I'm not part of this pod, but I had this idea.

Move 4

Defense 4 or 5

For each revealed order marker on this card lower the defense by 1

So in theory, the more usage the weaker it is. And its simple to understand.
That's a great, simple take on the theme. I like it.

What about since they are Rhino figures, (or at least animata/elementals/whatever they are) in the form/shape of rhinos, some kind of charging power is warranted. I like the throw back to the Kozuke power, and to my knowledge no other classic figure has that.

Any thoughts on that specifically?
Kozuke's Charging Assault should never be used for anything ever. :p I'd go similar but simpler and different:

A [Rhox Veteran] can add 2 to its Move if it only moves in a straight line this turn.
 
Re: [Pod 2] Rhox Veterans - Design

Personally I like this statue power the best. It may be a bit wordy, but it doesn't seem overly complicated.

LIVING STATUE POWER 2
At the start of each round after placing Order Markers, place a Shield Marker on this card for each Order Marker on it. Add 1 to [this]'s Defense for each Shield Marker on this card. After revealing an Order Marker on this card, flip a Shield Marker over to a Sword Marker. Add 1 to [this]'s Attack for each Sword Marker on this card. At the end of the round, remove all Shield and Sword Markers from this card.
I don't think we should be trying to design Avacyn with the Rhox. Even if she becomes a statue as well, limiting her abilities to be in line with the Rhox cuts creativity for both units.
I don't understand the point of the Shield and Sword markers. They seem identical to "unrevealed order markers" and "revealed order markers"respectively...


I'm not part of this pod, but I had this idea.

Move 4

Defense 4 or 5

For each revealed order marker on this card lower the defense by 1

So in theory, the more usage the weaker it is. And its simple to understand.
That's a great, simple take on the theme. I like it.
I also like it, for whatever it is worth.

What about since they are Rhino figures, (or at least animata/elementals/whatever they are) in the form/shape of rhinos, some kind of charging power is warranted. I like the throw back to the Kozuke power, and to my knowledge no other classic figure has that.

Any thoughts on that specifically?
Kozuke's Charging Assault should never be used for anything ever. :p I'd go similar but simpler and different:

A [Rhox Veteran] can add 2 to its Move if it only moves in a straight line this turn.
I like that. That power will be hard to use so you could even do something dramatic like +4 move. Which would be cool if they are a 4-move squad.
 
Re: [Pod 2] Rhox Veterans - Design

I like a lot of the ideas being discussed! At this point, if I had to combine my favorites into a single design, I think it would look something like this (with the understanding that the specific stat values could be adjusted):

Rhox Veterans
1 Life / 4 Move / 3 Attack / 3 Defense

Flesh to Stone
If there are no revealed order markers on this card, add 3 to the Defense value of this card.

Headlong Charge
A Rhox Veteran can add 4 to its Move if it only moves in a straight line this turn.
 
Re: [Pod 2] Rhox Veterans - Design

I like the above headlong charge, except i'd word it so they have to end their movement adjacent to an opposing figure to add 3/4 movement.

Also, I think they should have 3 move +4 or 4 movement +3. 8 movement seems a little much to me.

Instead of a 6 defense, what about 4 defense and they get 2 automatic shields against normal attacks if they have no unrevealed OM's? I'm still getting "Tough" vibes from these guys.
 
Re: [Pod 2] Rhox Veterans - Design

2 autoshields against 80% of the game just means they are nigh unkillable. I'd rather 1 autoshield or simply +defense.

Personally I prefer base 4 move and +3 move from "Headlong Charge". Not a fan of requiring engagement... that just makes them Kozukes.
 
Re: [Pod 2] Rhox Veterans - Design

The +4 move was because it will be hard for them to actually end a straight-line movement adjacent to someone--so might as well make it a lot of movement. There are many maps where terrain blockers will get in the way and they won't even be able to use the full +4. I think 4 +4 move is fine.

I agree that requiring ending engaged reduces the originality. It also makes it even harder to use.
 
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