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[Pod 1] PYRIA (Chandra Nalaar, Pyromancer) - Playtesting

I don't really want to drag this out into a lengthy argument, NB, especially since this isn't our Pod. I'll just take the chance to clear up a few places where it seems that I wasn't clear and then bow out of the discussion. Hopefully if Pod 1 decides that Pyria can pass as Jorhdawn, then there's a really good bio explaining it. :shrug:
There was other support for Jorhdawn II, so hopefully others will chime in, since as you say this isn't our Pod (which is why I generally try to stay out, unless I've done a playtest or things just need a push). Heroscape lore isn't particularly deep, so I'm curious what a "really good bio" looks like, beyond what I already wrote (which is already longer than Jorhdawn's, though not as long as some VC).

My understanding was that you felt like Pyria being an Elf Archmage was forced before Captain Stupendous floated the idea of her being Jorhdawn. I'm not aware of anyone else feeling like the Elf angle was forced off the top of my head; this was simply in response to my reading of your post that she was "forced" to be one already. My apologies if you didn't actually feel that way and I had an erroneous impression.
I did question it at first, since her being an Elf doesn't do anything different than anything else (likely Human). On the other hand, there's also not a particular reason that she can't be an Elf. I see her being Jorhdawn, or not, the same way, hence if we're going to say one is forced, then so is the other. Since no one actually feels Elf is forced, then Jorhdawn shouldn't either.

I'd argue that it's an apt parallel to Jorhdawn and Raelin, or pretty much Jorhdawn and any other "progression" character. It's an example that some characters are more obscure than others, even if all of them are equally official.
I misread that bit. Raelin and Drake are in the first Master Set, so they are more likely in more collections than a given expansion figure. Hrognak certainly doesn't enjoy that fame, though, and more importantly I hardly consider familiarity a prerequisite to a character being eligible for progression.

The similarities pretty much end at "flame-themed SA that can hit multiple figures." Jorhdawn relies on being close to certain units to boost her attack, plays mostly like a ranged figure, and has a drastically different style of multi-attack than Pyria does. Pyria absolutely feels like a unique character, and I think that if she were planned to be Jorhdawn rather than someone new, subtle changes in the design would have naturally occurred. Maybe the explosion SA wouldn't have been dropped, maybe she'd be less reliant on getting into melee range still, maybe she'd have some way to boost her SA like Chardris and Jorhdawn's defining traits, et cetera. It can certainly be argued that elements of this design can match Jorhdawn, but I think that it feels clear that it wasn't designed to match Jorhdawn (which it definitely shouldn't have been anyway, given the project's intention).
6 Life, 5 Move, 3 Attack, 2 Defense. Those are all similarities beyond a multi-fire-SA. The different style of attack (namely not getting boosts from other Elf Wizards) is precisely in line with Jorhdawn leaving the Nine. There's also nothing about this project that has at any time said we shouldn't do a progression character. Someone jumping in at this point might not have Jorhdawn, but neither would someone who started with SotM have Raelin 1.0 or Drake 1.0.
 
HAving read along, I'm definitely open to her being Jor 2. It's not not like we can't go with that name for now and then if SoV doesn't take it we make an alternate card.
 
As one of the Pod 1 people, I'm strong against Jor II.
Similar - I am against but not as strongly. Chandra Nalaar does not look like an elf (no pointy ears), a wizard (no staff). Howevere the long hair and "battle skirt" make them somewhat similar, and Jorhdawn probably looks closer to Chandra Nalaar than any other Heroscape unit. I guess I could see a good backstory showing the change, but would prefer our own "lore"
 
As one of the Pod 1 people, I'm strong against Jor II.
Similar - I am against but not as strongly. Chandra Nalaar does not look like an elf (no pointy ears), a wizard (no staff). Howevere the long hair and "battle skirt" make them somewhat similar, and Jorhdawn probably looks closer to Chandra Nalaar than any other Heroscape unit. I guess I could see a good backstory showing the change, but would prefer our own "lore"

To be clear, Chandra is an Elf either way right now (pointy ears or not), and the lack of staff that wizards have isn't as important since she's also an Archmage either way (Jace doesn't have one, either). Anyway, let the Pod decide her fate, I'll be around if we need to take a vote on it.
 
Posted a playtest here.

I will add here that I think changing her special attack to two attacks of 4 at a range of 3 or 4 would be better both functionally (easier to position, which can hurt her a lot frailty wise) and thematically (two flaming hands should equal two attacks not one or two)

Also, should she have lava resistance? Seems like a fit for her character and that certainly would've helped in my matchup!
 
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Thanks for the playtest, S1R_ART0R1US.

Part of the point of the special attack is to force her to be dangerously bold in placement, high-risk high-reward. Splitting the beams is a key part of that.

As for Lava Resistant, it's something we discussed. Just because a figure does fire stuff doesn't necessarily make it Lava Resistant, though. It wouldn't be a problematic addition, but we decided to keep the unit to single power (which is mildly complex).
 
Just to add with Lava Resistant, a lot of elves in Heroscape use fire magic but aren't lava resistant, likewise with Mimring's breath. I'm not part of the team on this one, but I'd say Lava Resistant isn't really a necessity here. A couple of units in this set will likely have it anyway (the cats and maybe the phoenixes).
 
Thanks for the playtest, S1R_ART0R1US.

Part of the point of the special attack is to force her to be dangerously bold in placement, high-risk high-reward. Splitting the beams is a key part of that.

As for Lava Resistant, it's something we discussed. Just because a figure does fire stuff doesn't necessarily make it Lava Resistant, though. It wouldn't be a problematic addition, but we decided to keep the unit to single power (which is mildly complex).

My take is that it's a high-risk, moderate reward move. If I can keep her on height I can still get a 4 die attack off, and I can get it at longer range. I don't affect as many figures that way, but she's more survivable.
 
Pyria was included in these tests, though she didn't do much (and the reports are just notes anyway, really). She was largely overshadowed by Ozuul in the same army, and when she did get used the potential was there but she tended to roll poorly before getting killed. I don't think the tests provide much other than to say I do like her as a single power card as the lines are fun to set up and harder to avoid than you might think. Now if I could just roll at least average...
 
Is this figure still in development? I played a game with her this week and really enjoyed this design. The map was Honor by Flash-19. My army was Death Knights x4, Azazel, and Pyria. I was up against The Queen Bee that is in C3V playtesting, 3x bees squad, Nilfheim, and Brute Gruts.

Having two bonding option for the DKs proides some great flexibility that allowed me to charge in with Azaazel while not being worried that he would die and leave me with just the DKs to work with. Azazel did his usual thing of doing some decent damage before getting knocked off. It was easy to switch over to Pyria at this point who because of the bonding gave me two chances to revive Azaazel on each OM. After a couple of OMs, Azazel came back to life which left my opponent having to try to position his figures to avoid both potential fire line and whirlwind attacks. It was an effective combo that eventually got me the win.

Just looking at the card I thought Pyria was going to be a little overpowered based on her stats, but the 2 defense reigns the rest of her powers in nicely. She could basically die at any moment. But on the flip-side, she could also do massive damage at any moment if she hits a 4/4 or 3/4 on her fire line.

I love this design. I think Pyria adds a lot to DK army builds and could potentially be decent as a stand alone hero as well. I'm excited about Pyria and hope this whole project is still moving forward.
 
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Is this figure still in development? I played a game with her this week and really enjoyed this design. The map was Honor by Flash-19. My army was Death Knights x4, Azazel, and Pyria. I was up against The Queen Bee that is in C3V playtesting, 3x bees squad, Nilfheim, and Brute Gruts.

Having two bonding option for the DKs proides some great flexibility that allowed me to charge in with Azaazel while not being worried that he would die and leave me with just the DKs to work with. Azazel did his usual thing of doing some decent damage before getting knocked off. It was easy to switch over to Pyria at this point who because of the bonding gave me two chances to revive Azaazel on each OM. After a couple of OMs, Azazel came back to life which left my opponent having to try to position his figures to avoid both potential fire line and whirlwind attacks. It was an effective combo that eventually got me the win.

Just looking at the card I thought Pyria was gooint to be a little overpowered based on her stats, but the 2 defense reigns the rest of her powers in nicely. She could basically die at any moment. But on the flip-side, she could also do massive damage at any moment if she hits a 4/4 or 3/4 on her fire line.

I love this design. I think Pyria adds a lot to DK army build and could potentially be decent as a stand alone hero as well. I'm excited about Pyria and hope this whole project is still moving forward.

Hi Tiamat, thanks for dropping by; public playtests and feedback are always much appreciated.

This figure is still in development (playtesting phase). Unfortunately our progress has slowed down as of late as we recently had a couple members step down from the project, but we're still slowly moving forward, and every playtest is extremely helpful toward eventually completing the project.

Right now, Ozuul and the Velnesh Alphas are the two units closest to being finalized, but we've got quite a few other designs ready for playtesting as well, all of which you can find here.

Thanks again for stopping by, and if you have any questions or would like to be more involved, just let us know!
 
Pyria was used in a small test here. She did most of the work for her team, and reminded me as she always does that even though there's not much going on with her card, she's more than capable on the battlefield.
 
Just to be clear, Pyria must select 2 different straight hex lines originating from her center and never 2 of the same hex lines (correct?)
 
Ran a test with Pyria yesterday. Note that I played Pyria as Medium 4, which had a significant effect on this map - Medium 4 seemed like the right height after comparing her to hexes instead of checking what you all had in the OP :oops:

Map: Sear by Dignan
Glyphs: 2 defense glyphs, 2 random treasure glyphs

Army 1: Pyria, Brunak, Ornak, Blade Gruts x3 (450 pts)
Army 2: Mimring, Otar, Arrow Gruts x3, Swog Rider x3, Brute Gruts (455 pts)


Which units survived?
2 Arrow Gruts, Mimring with 4 wounds, Otar with 1 wound, Brute Gruts

Mimring got onto the bridge in the first turn and started roasting Blade Gruts, while Brunak took one defense glyph and got Pyria to the bridge, where she pinged a Swog. Mimring tried tying up Pyria while firelining Brunak and sleeping gruts, but she hopped the bridge and got to the rock on the other side. Arrow Gruts tried to bring her down but she was rolling 4 defense dice with height and she wrecked havoc. Eventually Otar rolled in and pulled her off her perch, and then she fell pretty quickly, but not after dealing considerable damage. Mimring had destroyed Ornak and probably half the blade gruts, and eventually won a tense and drawn out duel with Brunak, and from there it was just about wiping out the last gruts.


How useful were playtesting units' powers and how often did they come into play?
Twin Flamethrower is a beast. 2 3-skull attacks and a 2 skull attack did some serious damage. It was a interesting mechanic positioning figures around Pyria trying to minimize her ability to move around while also minimizing the potential damage from her special attack. I am wondering tho, can Pyria attack a non-adjacent figure with one fire-line while she is attack an engaged figure with the other fireline? (That's how I played it)

Pyria destroyed 4 Arrow Gruts, 2 Swog Riders, and put 4 wounds on Mimring (220-ish points of damage?)


Any additional comments (theme, balance, fun factor with and against)?

Pyria can do a lot of damage. This was probably a strong map for her, where Brunak can get her on the bridge with a defense glyph on turn one. Still, Pyria does a lot. Her normal attack with its range has some nice utility. I don't think that decreasing her range to 6 would be a bad idea. Plus, Twin Flamethrower has some nice versatility in comparison to Mimring's original Fireline: It can reach figures as far apart as 7 hexes, and you don't need to worry about accidentally hitting your own figures that are behind a figure 3 spaces away. Mimring's greater threat range is obviously a big deal, but it's something to keep in mind.
The Ornak army probably would have been stronger with a Fen Hydra.
I think she feels quite nice as an Archmage - a somewhat beefy-if-squishy hero with some offensive potential. to that point, I don't think Death Knight bonding is a good direction for this design. I don't think an Archmage should have that sort of explicit synergy, afterall, I think its arguable that part of Sonlen's design is that he's NOT a wizard.
Points-wise, 120 is certainly in the right range, but I'd need to play her some more to get a better feel.

Let me know if there's anything I can do to help this project get rolling! I'll try to get some more testing on Pyria in, and then maybe Ozuul.
 
I could be wrong but I think when she is engaged she can only make fire lines from the spaces of figures she's engaged with.
 
I am wondering tho, can Pyria attack a non-adjacent figure with one fire-line while she is attack an engaged figure with the other fireline? (That's how I played it).
That's a good question. I'm not entirely certain of the answer. She must attack the engaged figure, that's for certain, but is she free to attack elsewhere as long as that condition is met? I actually think the answer may be different with a non-target attack like Fireline as opposed to a two-target ranged attack.
 
I think Caps interpretation of the special attack makes sense. But yeah, I think it's a good question to get a solid rules answer to. After doing so comparisons, I'll reiterate that I think the figure warrants a Medium 4 height. Been sitting on a couple tests for a while. Poor results for Pyria, some interesting gameplay decisions tho.


Map: Calida by Superfrog
Glyphs: 2 random power glyphs

Army 1: Pyria, Brunak, Ornak, Heavy Gruts x2, Marcu (490 pts)
Army 2: Macdirks x3, Alastair Macdirk, Thorgrim, Johnny "Shotgun" (495 pts)


Which units survived?
Game 1: Alastair with 4 wounds, 7 Macdirks, Thorgrim, and Johnny "Shotgun"
Game 2: Alastair with 5 wounds, 6 Macdirks, Thorgrim, and Johnny "Shotgun"

Game 1 I lead with Brunak and Pyria. Could have nuked the Macdirk startzone on turn 1, but instead I opted to take height and take a potshot in order to avoid getting wacked by Alastair. Turn two Pyria retreated to more height, and the same for turn 3. She managed to get two Macdirks, and I left her on the lava rock height. But a round 3 overextend from Alastair got some wounds on her and a lucky Macdirk got her up to 5 wounds. She died from the lava damage at the end of the round. Alastair Macdirk got some more wounds and retreated, and the Macdirks rolled over the rest of the army.

Game 2 I played Pyria more conservatives, using round 1 to develop the Heavy Gruts. Alastair grabbed a Move Glyph with a risky over-extend, but a round 2 initiative switch had Brunak and Pyria on top of him. Pyria sat back on height and used her normal attack for 2 wounds, to put Alastair up to 4 wounds. But Alastair dug himself out of the hole, one-shotting Brunak, and overextending to take out the grut blocking the road. Macdirks gummed up the works in front of him and killed Pyria and her order marker with their 7 attack. Alastair was able to flee and the 7 attack highlanders rolled over the Gruts again.

How useful were playtesting units' powers and how often did they come into play?
Took 5 turns with Pyria (6 OMs) between the two games and didn't use her special attack once. Had an opportunity to roast 4 Macdirks on turn 1 of the first game but I didn't think Pyria would stand up to 2 attacks of 5 from Alastair and 4 attacks of 3 from the Macdirks. So I sat back and used her normal attack.

Any additional comments (theme, balance, fun factor with and against)?
Pyria was bizarrely bad against this Macdirk army. Maybe I was playing her poorly? Maybe the Ornak army just isn't good? I'm not sure. In any case, I think I kind of like her normal attack with 7r/3a. Her base stats are nice and restrained, I think.
 
I'm surprised she doesn't have Lava Resistance.
I'm not. She's a medium elf wizard type character.

Thanks for the test @Maklar the Silver Prince! I suspect that in that matchup she needs either a screen or some kind of diversion to keep the attention off of her. To me she is a Mimring/Incendiborg type character that should stay at maximum range and use the flashier side of her abilities as more of a last resort.
 
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