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[Pod 0] Tetsuo Tyrell (Jace Investigator) - Compat. Testing

Re: [Pod 0] Tetsuo Tyrell (Jace, Investigator) - Playtesting

Updated. One of these days I'll get around to testing Tetsuo... :(
 
Re: [Pod 0] Tetsuo Tyrell (Jace, Investigator) - Playtesting

Tetsuo was used in a small test here, and was a lot of fun. Even without getting both Mind Jacks, using his powers in conjunction felt great, and he felt powerful but risky.
 
Re: [Pod 0] Tetsuo Tyrell (Jace, Investigator) - Playtesting

@NecroBlade @Captain Stupendous @flameslayer93

I think that overall Tetsuo feels very fun to play right now, and the interaction between Mind Jack and Overclock works well despite pushing him into a pretty aggressive playstyle rather than the original calculated risk-taking mechanics.

My main concern with him is the comparison to the Mind Flayer Mastermind, who has a very similar niche of stealing hero-turns but with less consistency (always 17, instead of Tetsuo's 14-18/19) and only costing 10 points cheaper. There is the Mind Flayer's Special Attack as well, but with only 3 range and 3 attack to potentially steal an Order Marker, my experiences were that Tetsuo's 5 range/5 attack was a much more useful tool to have, and he's far better at staying protected thanks to his range. Tetsuo is relatively balanced already, but unfortunately, balance isn't the only thing that we have to consider.

The change to 4 range (+1 from Overclock) and, critically, 4 range for Mind Jack helps bring them more in line in my eyes, but the comparison still isn't very favorable. It's unfortunate, because the Mind Flayer isn't a "competitive" design, but I think that Tetsuo has to be a bit weaker as a result to avoid overstepping another design's niche. I think that he should be our set's luck-driven figure to a certain extent--he's far less swingy than Ne-Gok-Sa or some of the classic designs already, but often getting to 15-16+ to steal a hero turn is already a bit more reliable than I'm comfortable with.

I'd like to either increase the points by 5-10 to put him in a different weight class than the Mind Flayer or increase the roll cutoff to 20 for Mind Jack. The former is a more plain change, while the latter will result in some memorable moments and is a nice homage to Ne-Gok-Sa (simultaneously making him more distinct from the Mind Flayer by being a higher risk, higher reward option). Do you guys have any thoughts on this direction?
 
Re: [Pod 0] Tetsuo Tyrell (Jace, Investigator) - Playtesting

Either tweak would work for me, provided it bears out in testing. I haven't gotten to playtest him much yet, so my two successes getting the exact minimum number needed with the right number of wounds isn't much of a data point. :lol: So the question is would we want a pricier, more consistent turn-stealer, or a cheaper, less reliable one. I'm not sure at the moment, but we do have a few designs in this point range already which makes me lean toward making him fall wherever other units don't.
 
Re: [Pod 0] Tetsuo Tyrell (Jace, Investigator) - Playtesting

I'm fine with either change as well. I might slightly lean toward making the D20 20+, just because I think that's a slightly simpler/intuitive number to hit.

Another way to tone down the power while increasing simplicity would be to take away the +1R from Overclock.

Personally, I'm less bothered by the comparisons to Mind Flayer. Classic Scape already had several units that filled similar niches (Shotgun Sullivan / James Murphy, Crixus / Migol, etc.).

I also haven't playtested him much, but he seemed fun based on my limited experience.
 
Re: [Pod 0] Tetsuo Tyrell (Jace, Investigator) - Playtesting

I lean towards 20+ as well, partially because as Capt. S noted, it feels more immediately impactful for what can be such a game-changing power. It also distinguishes from the Mind Flayer much more--with that change, he would only be equivalent in odds at half-health and better when he's on the precipice of death, which feels like a fair trade for Overclock's potential.

I don't like the +1R from Overclock too much because of the added complexity, but I'd prefer to test it before changing it because it was approved by much of Pod 0 originally.
 
Re: [Pod 0] Tetsuo Tyrell (Jace, Investigator) - Playtesting

I'm cool with the 20+ option for Mind Jack. In my games Tetsuo never really did much, but it was always the chance that he could do something that was appealing.
 
Re: [Pod 0] Tetsuo Tyrell (Jace, Investigator) - Playtesting

I'll go ahead and put 20+ in the OP for now. We can do further tweaking (such as dropping the +1R on Overclock) based on additional tests, I think.
 
Re: [Pod 0] Tetsuo Tyrell (Jace, Investigator) - Playtesting

Good stuff, guys, thanks. I did finally get a map set up again, so I'm not sure where I'll start yet, but hopefully I'll be able to contribute more playtests soon. My plan is to tackle one thing at a time until it's able to move forward, starting with Pod 0.
 
Re: [Pod 0] Tetsuo Tyrell (Jace, Investigator) - Playtesting

No worries. Life's been busy as of late on my end, too; I'm hoping to be able to come back and scream Tetsuo at the top of my lungs again soon. :lol:
 
Re: [Pod 0] Tetsuo Tyrell (Jace, Investigator) - Playtesting

Maybe I missed something, but I’m not sure whether the intent is that Overclock is stackable throughout the game or only a bonus for the duration of the turn/round since there is no clarification for either, leaving it open ended, up to interpretation.
 
Re: [Pod 0] Tetsuo Tyrell (Jace, Investigator) - Playtesting

Pretty sure it's a temporary add for the turn; otherwise you'd have to have two separate stacks, one for his Overclock wounds, another for his normal wounds.
 
Re: [Pod 0] Tetsuo Tyrell (Jace, Investigator) - Playtesting

Maybe I missed something, but I’m not sure whether the intent is that Overclock is stackable throughout the game or only a bonus for the duration of the turn/round since there is no clarification for either, leaving it open ended, up to interpretation.

It’s intended to be in effect only for the duration of the turn. I believe that all similar buffs are only in effect for one turn unless explicitly stated otherwise (see Marro Stingers and Anubian Wolves for classic examples of this precedent).

Thanks for stopping by; if you have any other comments or feedback we’d love to hear it!
 
Re: [Pod 0] Tetsuo Tyrell (Jace, Investigator) - Playtesting

It’s intended to be in effect only for the duration of the turn. I believe that all similar buffs are only in effect for one turn unless explicitly stated otherwise (see Marro Stingers and Anubian Wolves for classic examples of this precedent).

Okay, those are the precedents I wanted to see. Makes sense then. Looking through my cards again, there are tons of abilities that leave it like this.. Something I never really internalized I guess and the wound accumulation aspect threw me off. I think "After moving" (and before attacking) could be added as is used in stinger drain? I'll be looking through and familiarizing with all the designs slowly. The playtest tourney sounds like a good fun idea.
 
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Re: [Pod 0] Tetsuo Tyrell (Jace, Investigator) - Playtesting

Playtest here.

Tetsuo just unfortunately didn't realize his potential, MJ seems fine at 19 since it never went off (and at best it would've been an inconvenience to Ozuul since he didn't have much of a team to turn on). Floated the idea of increasing the Overclock bonus even more, especially given his low Defense.

Since MJ was at 19 on the printed card I had, that's what we used, though it didn't make a difference.
 
Re: [Pod 0] Tetsuo Tyrell (Jace, Investigator) - Playtesting

As an alternative to dropping back to 19+ for MJ, we could also look at giving him 7 life (lowering the minimum roll needed to 14 and making him a bit more consistent). I don't particularly love the idea since I think that him being such a fragile glass cannon is memorable, though.

I'm content with the power mostly underwhelming in tests, though, since those rare times when he Mind Jacks Ozuul and nukes an enemy or throws Heracles into lava justify his inconsistency IMO.
 
Re: [Pod 0] Tetsuo Tyrell (Jace, Investigator) - Playtesting

Yeah I don't like messing with his right-stats either. Just have to figure out where MJ should start, and I'm on the fence between 19-20.
 
Re: [Pod 0] Tetsuo Tyrell (Jace, Investigator) - Playtesting

Notes from a quick playtest after last month's local event: Tetsuo Tyrell did some damage, though not his points worth (just a few damage to a couple other Heroes). It seems worth bumping Mind Jack roll back down from 20 to 19, since he's relatively fragile and it's more fun when it actually happens. I believe this would have made MJ trigger once, which would likely have resulted in TT earning the rest of his points back if not more. Better odds on MJ can help encourage use of Overclock, too, again making the whole package more fun (and again making him more fragile).
 
Re: [Pod 0] Tetsuo Tyrell (Jace, Investigator) - Playtesting

I still think that Mind Jack should be at 20 and not 19. It's an inconsistent power by its nature, and it will miss more often than not, but those times that it hits create the most memorable games.

At 19 base (18 if he overclocks first), there's also only one turn where his odds will be worse than the Mind Flayer Mastermind's Enslave 17, since there are very few turns with this iteration of Tetsuo that I haven't found the extra stats and odds to be worth him burning out a bit faster. Neither figure is going to be super competitive, but I also think that he is already just outright better than the Mind Flayer.
 
Re: [Pod 0] Tetsuo Tyrell (Jace, Investigator) - Playtesting

I think it's okay for him to be better than the Mind Flayer. It is an overpriced and underused figure.

I'll think the 19 vs 20 issue over... It is the kind of power that shouldn't necessarily trigger every game. Another dial is life; drop to 19 but also do one less life. Stay at 20 but add one life.
 
Re: [Pod 0] Tetsuo Tyrell (Jace, Investigator) - Playtesting

I think it's okay for him to be better than the Mind Flayer. It is an overpriced and underused figure.

I'll think the 19 vs 20 issue over... It is the kind of power that shouldn't necessarily trigger every game. Another dial is life; drop to 19 but also do one less life. Stay at 20 but add one life.

I'd favor 19 with 1 less life, but I don't think it matters. Tetsuo is a Runa/ KMS/ Atlaga/ Deadeye Dan style figure. Legendary in home games and totally uncompetitive outside of them.

Edit: That's a good thing, not a bad thing.
 
Re: [Pod 0] Tetsuo Tyrell (Jace, Investigator) - Playtesting

I'd be fine with 19 at 5 life, I think. One of the defining characteristics of Tetsuo IMO is just how much of a glass cannon he is, and that noticeably increases the risk of his tendency to throw out 5 attack at 5 range.
 
Re: [Pod 0] Tetsuo Tyrell (Jace, Investigator) - Playtesting

I would prefer 20/6L to 19/5L, as lower life discourages use of Overclock.
 
Re: [Pod 0] Tetsuo Tyrell (Jace, Investigator) - Playtesting

Let's stick with Overclock 20 and 6L; that's what's in the OP.
 
Re: [Pod 0] Tetsuo Tyrell (Jace, Investigator) - Playtesting

Let's stick with Overclock 20 and 6L; that's what's in the OP.
Are we ready to finalize, here, or do we need more playtesting?
@NecroBlade
@Pumpkin_King
@Astroking112
@All Your Pie
@flameslayer93
@Captain Stupendous
@Knox

(I'm not sure my list there is up to date, so I added Cpt S and the Pod 0 main thread list)


EDIT: After reading the playtests I'm not sure Tetsuo is done with playtesting. I'd like to see a few exploit type builds for him, and see him against some armies where he has potential to create an unfun matchup for the other player.
 
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