[Pod 0] Honored Soul-Guides - Editing

[Scytale]

Re: [Pod 0] Honored Soul-Guides (Lantern Geists) - Design

Also, does the theme land any better for you than previous implementations?

Whenever a figure you control moves adjacent to a Soul Guide you control, you may place that figure adjacent to a different Soul Guide you control. Figures moved by Journey Through the Spirit World never take leaving engagement attacks. Journey Through the Spirit World may only be used once per turn.

It's probably better overall. Should probably change to "After a figure you control moves adjacent to ...", to avoid clashing with other movement triggers like leaving engagement attacks. Also perhaps add in a "That figure may then continue its movement." line in there to make the intent clear.

 

[Knox]

Re: [Pod 0] Honored Soul-Guides (Lantern Geists) - Design

I like the rewording. Especially after Scytale's bit about being able to continue movement

 

[Captain Stupendous]

Re: [Pod 0] Honored Soul-Guides (Lantern Geists) - Design

Also, does the theme land any better for you than previous implementations?

Whenever a figure you control moves adjacent to a Soul Guide you control, you may place that figure adjacent to a different Soul Guide you control. Figures moved by Journey Through the Spirit World never take leaving engagement attacks. Journey Through the Spirit World may only be used once per turn.

It's probably better overall. Should probably change to "After a figure you control moves adjacent to ...", to avoid clashing with other movement triggers like leaving engagement attacks. Also perhaps add in a "That figure may then continue its movement." line in there to make the intent clear.

Would it also need to explicitly state that it can only be used in conjunction with normal movement? Seems like it could be problematic to allow a Spirit Journey combined with a chain grab, vanish or something.

 

[Scytale]

Re: [Pod 0] Honored Soul-Guides (Lantern Geists) - Design

Also, does the theme land any better for you than previous implementations?

Whenever a figure you control moves adjacent to a Soul Guide you control, you may place that figure adjacent to a different Soul Guide you control. Figures moved by Journey Through the Spirit World never take leaving engagement attacks. Journey Through the Spirit World may only be used once per turn.

It's probably better overall. Should probably change to "After a figure you control moves adjacent to ...", to avoid clashing with other movement triggers like leaving engagement attacks. Also perhaps add in a "That figure may then continue its movement." line in there to make the intent clear.

Would it also need to explicitly state that it can only be used in conjunction with normal movement? Seems like it could be problematic to allow a Spirit Journey combined with a chain grab, vanish or something.

Limiting it to normal movements would be safest.

 

[Captain Stupendous]

Re: [Pod 0] Honored Soul-Guides (Lantern Geists) - Design

So, I think we'd end up with something looking like this:

Journey Through the Spirit World
After a figure you control moves adjacent to a Soul Guide during its normal move, you may place that figure adjacent to a different Soul Guide you control. That figure may then continue its movement. Figures moved by Journey Through the Spirit World never take leaving engagement attacks. Journey Through the Spirit World may only be used once per turn.

 

[NecroBlade]

Re: [Pod 0] Honored Soul-Guides (Lantern Geists) - Design

Cut out 10+ words:

JOURNEY THROUGH THE SPIRIT WORLD
Once per turn, when a figure you control moves adjacent to a Soul Guide while moving normally, you may place that figure adjacent to a different Soul Guide you control. That figure may then continue its movement. Figures moved by Journey Through the Spirit World never take leaving engagement attacks.

Also were we just short-handing, or thinking of changing their name to just "Soul Guides"?

 

[Captain Stupendous]

Re: [Pod 0] Honored Soul-Guides (Lantern Geists) - Design

Cut out 10+ words:

JOURNEY THROUGH THE SPIRIT WORLD
Once per turn, when a figure you control moves adjacent to a Soul Guide while moving normally, you may place that figure adjacent to a different Soul Guide you control. That figure may then continue its movement. Figures moved by Journey Through the Spirit World never take leaving engagement attacks.

Also were we just short-handing, or thinking of changing their name to just "Soul Guides"?

That looks good to me.

I was just short-handing. I believe there is precedent for special powers to not use the full title of the unit?

 

[NecroBlade]

Re: [Pod 0] Honored Soul-Guides (Lantern Geists) - Design

I think you're correct and I think it's usually the full name in the first instance and abbreviated after that. I'd have to find actual proof, though.

This sounds like something @Just_a_Bill would know.

 

[Knox]

Re: [Pod 0] Honored Soul-Guides (Lantern Geists) - Design

I think you're correct and I think it's usually the full name in the first instance and abbreviated after that. I'd have to find actual proof, though.

This sounds like something @Just_a_Bill would know.

That is in fact something JaB would know. He mentioned when helping me edit my proposal for the Lillianna figure. The full name is mentioned in the first instance and the abbreviated thereafter

 

[NecroBlade]

Re: [Pod 0] Honored Soul-Guides (Lantern Geists) - Design

Ha, nailed it.

So do we want to give this a shot?

JOURNEY THROUGH THE SPIRIT WORLD
Once per turn, when a figure you control moves adjacent to an Honored Soul-Guide while moving normally, you may place that figure adjacent to a different Soul-Guide you control. That figure may then continue its movement. Figures moved by Journey Through the Spirit World never take leaving engagement attacks.

 

[Just_a_Bill]

Re: [Pod 0] Honored Soul-Guides (Lantern Geists) - Design

This effect is better in some ways, but the figures still don't behave like psychopomps and they aren't guiding souls but rather teleporting the living around the forest. Half of me wants to propose their class be "Portals," since basically one is the Blue Portal and one is the Orange Portal. I have to admit I'm struggling to figure out what the storyline is here, why they are "honored," etc. Maybe somebody could summarize the story of exactly what's happening and we can think about a new thematic layer for it?

 

[Knox]

Re: [Pod 0] Honored Soul-Guides (Lantern Geists) - Design

This effect is better in some ways, but the figures still don't behave like psychopomps and they aren't guiding souls but rather teleporting the living around the forest. Half of me wants to propose their class be "Portals," since basically one is the Blue Portal and one is the Orange Portal. I have to admit I'm struggling to figure out what the storyline is here, why they are "honored," etc. Maybe somebody could summarize the story of exactly what's happening and we can think about a new thematic layer for it?

I think it's basically Teleportation via your soul (they teleport your soul and your body follows?)

I feel like the theme makes a ton of sense if you don't ask too many questions lol

 

[Just_a_Bill]

Re: [Pod 0] Honored Soul-Guides (Lantern Geists) - Design

I think it's basically Teleportation via your soul (they teleport your soul and your body follows?)

I feel like the theme makes a ton of sense if you don't ask too many questions lol

Heh, I appreciate the effort... but this is kind of pointing out how it really doesn't make any sense at all.

 

[Captain Stupendous]

Re: [Pod 0] Honored Soul-Guides (Lantern Geists) - Design

This effect is better in some ways, but the figures still don't behave like psychopomps and they aren't guiding souls but rather teleporting the living around the forest. Half of me wants to propose their class be "Portals," since basically one is the Blue Portal and one is the Orange Portal. I have to admit I'm struggling to figure out what the storyline is here, why they are "honored," etc. Maybe somebody could summarize the story of exactly what's happening and we can think about a new thematic layer for it?

The idea is that the Soul Guides have the ability to guide living travelers through the land of the dead (the "Spirit World"). Travelers need a guide to lead them into and out of the Spirit World, hence the need for a Soul Guide on either end. Time also passes differently in the spirit world, which is why the "teleportation" from one guide to the other appears instantaneous.

 

[Knox]

Re: [Pod 0] Honored Soul-Guides (Lantern Geists) - Design

This effect is better in some ways, but the figures still don't behave like psychopomps and they aren't guiding souls but rather teleporting the living around the forest. Half of me wants to propose their class be "Portals," since basically one is the Blue Portal and one is the Orange Portal. I have to admit I'm struggling to figure out what the storyline is here, why they are "honored," etc. Maybe somebody could summarize the story of exactly what's happening and we can think about a new thematic layer for it?

The idea is that the Soul Guides have the ability to guide living travelers through the land of the dead (the "Spirit World"). Travelers need a guide to lead them into and out of the Spirit World, hence the need for a Soul Guide on either end. Time also passes differently in the spirit world, which is why the "teleportation" from one guide to the other appears instantaneous.

Right, like teleporting across the material world via the Astral Plane in D&D.

 

[Captain Stupendous]

Re: [Pod 0] Honored Soul-Guides (Lantern Geists) - Design

This effect is better in some ways, but the figures still don't behave like psychopomps and they aren't guiding souls but rather teleporting the living around the forest. Half of me wants to propose their class be "Portals," since basically one is the Blue Portal and one is the Orange Portal. I have to admit I'm struggling to figure out what the storyline is here, why they are "honored," etc. Maybe somebody could summarize the story of exactly what's happening and we can think about a new thematic layer for it?

The idea is that the Soul Guides have the ability to guide living travelers through the land of the dead (the "Spirit World"). Travelers need a guide to lead them into and out of the Spirit World, hence the need for a Soul Guide on either end. Time also passes differently in the spirit world, which is why the "teleportation" from one guide to the other appears instantaneous.

Right, like teleporting across the material world via the Astral Plane in D&D.

I haven't played DnD, but yeah that sounds right. Hopefully that's relatively apparent from the power mechanics and name?

 

[Knox]

Re: [Pod 0] Honored Soul-Guides (Lantern Geists) - Design

This effect is better in some ways, but the figures still don't behave like psychopomps and they aren't guiding souls but rather teleporting the living around the forest. Half of me wants to propose their class be "Portals," since basically one is the Blue Portal and one is the Orange Portal. I have to admit I'm struggling to figure out what the storyline is here, why they are "honored," etc. Maybe somebody could summarize the story of exactly what's happening and we can think about a new thematic layer for it?

The idea is that the Soul Guides have the ability to guide living travelers through the land of the dead (the "Spirit World"). Travelers need a guide to lead them into and out of the Spirit World, hence the need for a Soul Guide on either end. Time also passes differently in the spirit world, which is why the "teleportation" from one guide to the other appears instantaneous.

Right, like teleporting across the material world via the Astral Plane in D&D.

I haven't played DnD, but yeah that sounds right. Hopefully that's relatively apparent from the power mechanics and name?

I mean... a vague association is at least apparent. That's what I was trying to articulate in my original comment. But obviously when I tried to articulate it it kinda fell apart and I had to rely on "it just sorta feels right." But the reason it feels right is bc of prior association with astral teleportation in other games/media

 

[Just_a_Bill]

Re: [Pod 0] Honored Soul-Guides (Lantern Geists) - Design

What about tweaking it a bit, to still offer teleportation indirectly, but more subtly?

SOUL GUIDES

INTO THE AFTERLIFE
If a Soul Guide you control is [ adjacent to | within __ clear sight spaces of ] a friendly figure that is destroyed and removed from the battlefield, you may place the destroyed figure on this Army Card.

BACK TO THE LIVING
After taking a turn with the Soul Guides, you may destroy 1 or 2 Soul Guides you control to return one previously destroyed figure from this Army Card to the battlefield on a space the destroyed Guide(s) occupied. You must Destroy 1 Soul Guide to return a Squad member or 2 to return a Hero. Remove [ all | up to __ ] wound markers from the returned figure's Army Card. Back to the Living does not affect Undead, Constructs, or Animata.

STEALTH FLYING

That second power could be written a bit more Scapishly, at the cost of making it substantially longer:

After taking a turn with the Soul Guides, you may do one of the following:

• Destroy 1 Soul Guide you control and place one previously destroyed Squad figure from this Army Card on the space that Guide occupied.
• Destroy 2 Soul Guides you control, place one previously destroyed Hero from this Army Card on one of the spaces those Guides occupied, and remove [ all | up to __ ] wound markers from that Hero's Army Card.

Back to the Living does not affect Undead, Constructs, or Animata.

 

[Scytale]

Re: [Pod 0] Honored Soul-Guides (Lantern Geists) - Design

INTO THE AFTERLIFE
If a Soul Guide you control is [ adjacent to | within __ clear sight spaces of ] a friendly figure that is destroyed and removed from the battlefield, you may place the destroyed figure on this Army Card.

Powers that can grab any figure don't play well with various powers that already do things with dead figures.

 

[Just_a_Bill]

Re: [Pod 0] Honored Soul-Guides (Lantern Geists) - Design

Powers that can grab any figure don't play well with various powers that already do things with dead figures.

... Or, they are purposely intended to provide competition to such powers via d20 roll-offs. In fact, I considered that one of the best places to do such a thing would be on a Unique squad of minimal membership (2 figures) whose members are intentionally designed to self-destruct, since this would keep the number of such interactions to a minimum.

Actual problem? Or mutual counter-draft opportunity?

 

[Knox]

Re: [Pod 0] Honored Soul-Guides (Lantern Geists) - Design

Right, I don't view that as a problem. What I do view as a problem is that now for 260 points you can now get 16 life Heracles. I also think the new version becomes a must add in the Anything Goes format, and significantly buffs Silver Surfer armies.

 

[Just_a_Bill]

Re: [Pod 0] Honored Soul-Guides (Lantern Geists) - Design

16 life Heracles.

My proposal contains a clause that will prevent this. I purposely put in "dials" for tuning it. I hoped that was clear, but maybe it wasn't.

Or maybe the psychopomp concept is just going to feel forced no matter what we try. Anyway I gave it a shot.

 

[NecroBlade]

Re: [Pod 0] Honored Soul-Guides (Lantern Geists) - Design

The idea is that the Soul Guides have the ability to guide living travelers through the land of the dead (the "Spirit World"). Travelers need a guide to lead them into and out of the Spirit World, hence the need for a Soul Guide on either end. Time also passes differently in the spirit world, which is why the "teleportation" from one guide to the other appears instantaneous.

Access to the spirit realm is also why I don't have an issue with the current version. I do think a class change will help, though.

 

[NecroBlade]

Re: [Pod 0] Honored Soul-Guides (Lantern Geists) - Design

What Class do we want to change to here? Just Guides?

 

[Captain Stupendous]

Re: [Pod 0] Honored Soul-Guides (Lantern Geists) - Design

What Class do we want to change to here? Just Guides?

I like guides or sentinels. I’m not sure I love introducing guide as a new class cause I don’t know how reusable it would be?