Seems reasonable.
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[Pod 0] Glyph of Knowledge - Testing
- Thread starter flameslayer93
- Start date
The reasoning was probably just that "before rolling for initiative" is cleaner than "after rolling for initiative, but before any Order Markers are revealed."
The change seems pretty minute to me, so I don't have any strong feelings one way or the other.
The change seems pretty minute to me, so I don't have any strong feelings one way or the other.
flameslayer93
I could go
I don’t mind if the glyph is on the weak side. This MS will feature a lot if podge builds, which boosts its MS-inclusive strength anyway.
I'm OK with changing it to after rolling initiative. The glyph doesn't actually do anything by itself (it's up to the player to capitalize on the information), so being able to make a slightly more informed decision works for me.
flameslayer93
I could go
Had a game where Knowledge was relevant.
Battle report:
https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=2367573&postcount=249
I held the glyph for two rounds. The first round info wasn’t useful, but I was able to use the info from the 2nd round to kill off an order marker.
Since LE didn’t have a large enough army for glyph control, this was a good advantage in addition to wannok’s mill effect.
Its a handy effect, and well worth the figure. I think as long as its not in too weak of a spot on the map, this is a fun glyph.
Battle report:
https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showpost.php?p=2367573&postcount=249
I held the glyph for two rounds. The first round info wasn’t useful, but I was able to use the info from the 2nd round to kill off an order marker.
Since LE didn’t have a large enough army for glyph control, this was a good advantage in addition to wannok’s mill effect.
Its a handy effect, and well worth the figure. I think as long as its not in too weak of a spot on the map, this is a fun glyph.
flameslayer93
I could go
I'd like to get some more games in with it first, especially because it already shows promise.
Don't know when we'll be able to get some 3+ player games in, but hopefully they happen in due time.
flameslayer93
I could go
We played a 4 player FFA with the Glyph of Knowledge and the Ukushisa Pride.
Players could choose from 6 prebuilt armies. Although the points varied a bit, I tried to keep them all somewhat close in balance. Very low competitiveness, we just wanted to have a good time.
Armies:
Me *:
Kato
Kaemon
Kozuke
Einar Imperium *1
Shiori
Izumi
*I realized later that night I probably should have dropped Kato and put in Samurai Archers, but oh well. The points were much greater than the remaining armies.
LE:
Sujoah
Ukushisa Pride
Greater Ice Elemental
Venoc Vipers *1
Fyorlag Spiders *1
Nick:
Ana Karithon
Darrak Ambershard
Rhogar
White Wyrmling *1
Frostrager
Sharwin
Angie:
Shurrak
Sudema
Runa
Mezzodemons *1
Marro Stingers *1
Sahaguin Raider
Custom map:
Details on the game are a bit fuzzy since it happened last week (and I simply havent had time to post about it).
Main take aways:
I won. Kato with a bunch of Treasure Glyphs is really strong.
Ukushisas are still pretty fun, but get revenge killed pretty easily because they group up most of the time. This is a good trait because it prevents their stats from overriding their points cost. They wounded Kaemon for 2, and killed a Kozuke. A Venoc with height finished off Kaemon. The other Kozukes were killed by the Ice Elemental and Sharwin.
Being able to use knowledge vs all opponents may have been nice, but didn't impact the game much. LE had it for two rounds. Since me and her were fighting, it did little good because she couldn't hold it for long periods of time.
Players could choose from 6 prebuilt armies. Although the points varied a bit, I tried to keep them all somewhat close in balance. Very low competitiveness, we just wanted to have a good time.
Armies:
Me *:
Kato
Kaemon
Kozuke
Einar Imperium *1
Shiori
Izumi
*I realized later that night I probably should have dropped Kato and put in Samurai Archers, but oh well. The points were much greater than the remaining armies.
LE:
Sujoah
Ukushisa Pride
Greater Ice Elemental
Venoc Vipers *1
Fyorlag Spiders *1
Nick:
Ana Karithon
Darrak Ambershard
Rhogar
White Wyrmling *1
Frostrager
Sharwin
Angie:
Shurrak
Sudema
Runa
Mezzodemons *1
Marro Stingers *1
Sahaguin Raider
Custom map:
Spoiler Alert!
Details on the game are a bit fuzzy since it happened last week (and I simply havent had time to post about it).
Main take aways:
I won. Kato with a bunch of Treasure Glyphs is really strong.
Ukushisas are still pretty fun, but get revenge killed pretty easily because they group up most of the time. This is a good trait because it prevents their stats from overriding their points cost. They wounded Kaemon for 2, and killed a Kozuke. A Venoc with height finished off Kaemon. The other Kozukes were killed by the Ice Elemental and Sharwin.
Being able to use knowledge vs all opponents may have been nice, but didn't impact the game much. LE had it for two rounds. Since me and her were fighting, it did little good because she couldn't hold it for long periods of time.
Based off of the discussion about new glyph types, here's how I'd recommend changing the Glyph of Knowledge, assuming these rules for the black glyphs in our box:
This is a straightforward translation from the current form of the glyph, which I've found to be balanced and unique from the others. It's noticeably weaker than most of the other glyphs already, though, and making it inactive half of the time is a substantial change. We could either look at increasing the strength of the glyph (maybe you can look at any three unrevealed OMs, to make it scale better to lower player-counts?), leaving it as a weaker point of interest, or redesigning it completely.
My first inclination is towards the second option (leaving it a bit weaker), that way we have a better variety of mechanical draws to pull players across the map, but it'll be a pretty noticeable difference if the other glyphs are all hitting at the same weight. What do y'all think?
INVERSE GLYPHS
Inverse Glyphs have an active-side displaying their name and symbol and an inactive-side with the Inverse Glyph symbol on their back. While an Inverse Glyph's active-side is up, figures standing on that space grant the powers for that glyph as outlined below. While that Inverse Glyph's inactive-side is up, there are no special benefits for that space. When your figure lands on an active-side Inverse Glyph, it must stop. Note: A double-spaced figure must stop when its leading side moves onto an active-side Inverse Glyph.
At the beginning of each round of the game after the first one, flip every Inverse Glyph on the battlefield so that the opposite side is now up (so all active Inverse Glyphs become inactive, and all inactive ones become active). Scenarios will tell you what side to place each Inverse Glyph on to begin the game, or you can start them on either side when designing your own battlefields.
Inverse Glyphs have an active-side displaying their name and symbol and an inactive-side with the Inverse Glyph symbol on their back. While an Inverse Glyph's active-side is up, figures standing on that space grant the powers for that glyph as outlined below. While that Inverse Glyph's inactive-side is up, there are no special benefits for that space. When your figure lands on an active-side Inverse Glyph, it must stop. Note: A double-spaced figure must stop when its leading side moves onto an active-side Inverse Glyph.
At the beginning of each round of the game after the first one, flip every Inverse Glyph on the battlefield so that the opposite side is now up (so all active Inverse Glyphs become inactive, and all inactive ones become active). Scenarios will tell you what side to place each Inverse Glyph on to begin the game, or you can start them on either side when designing your own battlefields.
This is a straightforward translation from the current form of the glyph, which I've found to be balanced and unique from the others. It's noticeably weaker than most of the other glyphs already, though, and making it inactive half of the time is a substantial change. We could either look at increasing the strength of the glyph (maybe you can look at any three unrevealed OMs, to make it scale better to lower player-counts?), leaving it as a weaker point of interest, or redesigning it completely.
My first inclination is towards the second option (leaving it a bit weaker), that way we have a better variety of mechanical draws to pull players across the map, but it'll be a pretty noticeable difference if the other glyphs are all hitting at the same weight. What do y'all think?
Here's a few alternative ideas to strengthen it (since I think it'll probably be very weak as-is but every-other round). I think I like the last one.
I like those ideas. The second one feels the most classic/straightforward to me, though it pretty much gives you perfect OM knowledge unless the OMs are on at least 3 cards for the round.
Relying on finding the X feels a little weird, but I can get behind it as a way of avoiding giving away all of your opponent's plans unless you guess well first. Another option could be an initiative boost of some kind if you find the X, though I kind of prefer your idea of looking at more OMs instead since the glyph is entirely about knowledge.
Relying on finding the X feels a little weird, but I can get behind it as a way of avoiding giving away all of your opponent's plans unless you guess well first. Another option could be an initiative boost of some kind if you find the X, though I kind of prefer your idea of looking at more OMs instead since the glyph is entirely about knowledge.
I was thinking of another reveal after finding the X less as "guessing well" and more as "guaranteed to see at least one numbered OM (if one exists on the card).
I don't immediately like an initiative boost because it's combining two different things, however, that did give my this idea...
...and to be honest I kind of like it. It's an elegant combination and it scales with player count for up to +9 (just barely eclipsing Dagmar). Adding to your roll would impart some knowledge to the other players as well; if I get +7 and looked at your 1, you know the two I chose from the other opponents were 3's. Not sure how everyone would feel about that. An alternative would be to reveal them (so you don't have to take everyone at their word on the math), which means everyone benefits no matter who has the glyph, although the player doing the reveal still gets the initiative as well.
I don't immediately like an initiative boost because it's combining two different things, however, that did give my this idea...
...and to be honest I kind of like it. It's an elegant combination and it scales with player count for up to +9 (just barely eclipsing Dagmar). Adding to your roll would impart some knowledge to the other players as well; if I get +7 and looked at your 1, you know the two I chose from the other opponents were 3's. Not sure how everyone would feel about that. An alternative would be to reveal them (so you don't have to take everyone at their word on the math), which means everyone benefits no matter who has the glyph, although the player doing the reveal still gets the initiative as well.
I like all of these options in some way, but I think overall I agree with Astro that looking at all OMs on each chosen card is a nice simple way to go for this set.