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[Pod 0] Glyph of Healing - Testing

Astroking112

Astroking112

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The Book of Glyph of Healing

Arena of the Valkyrie Master Set

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NAME
Glyph of Healing

Temporary/Power Glyph
Figures you control may only stop on this Glyph if there is at least one wounded friendly Hero. When one of your figures ends its movement here, remove up to one wound marker from all friendly Heroes. This glyph cannot be placed symbol-side up in any scenario you may create.

The glyph used for this glyph is the Glyph of Healing from Arena of the Planeswalkers.
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Editing Check

Playtesting:
Test 1
Test 2
Test 3
Test 4

-Rulings and Clarifications-
TBA​

-Strategy, Tactics and Tips-
TBA​

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Re: [Pod 0] Glyph of Healing - Design

I figure that even if we do end up going with Kelda again, there has been enough significant discussion around this glyph to warrant a full design thread.

For the sake of getting a fuller vision of the set, here is a list of the other glyphs that we'll be using, provided by @flameslayer93:

  • Move +2
  • Attack +1
  • Defense +1
These are all very straightforward to transfer to normal HeroScape rules, so they aren't a part of our design process right now, but I think that they're still pertinent to the discussion around creating glyphs.

In addition, our other two glyphs have taken the following form:
  • Recall - Revive a Squad Figure
  • Knowledge - Look at unrevealed Order Markers
Obviously, we should be doing something with healing here because of the glyph's name. There's been some discussion in the main Pod 0 thread about what to do with this glyph, with a couple of different avenues being discussed. The main ideas that immediately come to mind for me are:

  • Kelda again, with the same mechanics. This would still find use in our set through scenarios using only AotV, but it does run into the problem of being much less interesting for anyone who owns RotV. I'm not sure how often the glyph would find play in the long run if it is a complete Kelda copy.

  • Making it a temporary glyph like Kelda, but instead of fully healing the figure who stops on it, you remove 1 wound from all wounded heroes you control. That mostly encourages hero-heavy armies, which is nice.

  • The Arena of the Planeswalkers-style glyph, where it is permanent but only removes 1 wound from the figure standing on it at the end of every round or turn that figure takes. This potentially encourages podding armies too much, especially when our set is mostly going to be flat, but it does at least provide a completely different mechanic for mapmaking (such as putting the glyph in some central lowground).
 
Re: [Pod 0] Glyph of Healing - Design

While the AotP style would provide something new, I feel like it just has too many issues. If it heals the Hero every OM they get, it's far, far better with Q9, Nilf, etc. If it heals the Hero at the end of every round, it becomes a perch for cheerleaders. While these can be mitigated somewhat by map placement, that applies to literally every glyph, so IMO we're better off doing something else that doesn't rely on that crutch.





Astroking112 said:
  • Making it a temporary glyph like Kelda, but instead of fully healing the figure who stops on it, you remove 1 wound from all wounded heroes you control. That mostly encourages hero-heavy armies, which is nice.
Click to expand...



This I like for encouraging Heroes without being too swingy when Charos goes from 1 Life back to 9 (thanks for that experience, GenCon...).
 
Re: [Pod 0] Glyph of Healing - Design

As others have mentioned, if we made it heal the figure every order marker, it would be too strong. However if it healed only the hero on the glyph at the end of each round, I think it makes the glyph too weak. Even if you place Raelin or Taelord on it, almost all maps put glyphs on lower ground making it an easier target, and you are really hampering where the cheerleader can go. It would take 4 rounds to heal as much as Kelda when you have 4 wounds, having to spend 12 turns on the glyph versus 1 turn on Kelda is a very mitigating factor. I am not sure anyone would go for the glyph other than maybe your clean-up hero if the opponent only has melee left. The best suggestion with a permanent glyph is it can heal ANY figure at the end of the round as long as you have at least one figure on it, but that makes Rats, Warforged, and Bonding be able to maintain a glyph all the more appealing and overpowered compared to armies that cannot take a glyph easily.

Other option would be something weird like "heal up to 3 wounds" or a D20- roll to heal (same chance as Kelda figure), or the permanent glyph that somehow healed twice a round (with an X order marker mechanic maybe). None of those sound particularly appealing and "easy" as we are going for.

So for a consistent glyph the heal 1 wound from all heroes is a decent suggestion. Willing to take others though.
 
Re: [Pod 0] Glyph of Healing - Design

NecroBlade said:
While the AotP style would provide something new, I feel like it just has too many issues. If it heals the Hero every OM they get, it's far, far better with Q9, Nilf, etc. If it heals the Hero at the end of every round, it becomes a perch for cheerleaders. While these can be mitigated somewhat by map placement, that applies to literally every glyph, so IMO we're better off doing something else that doesn't rely on that crutch.
Click to expand...

I agree that putting it on every OM wouldn't feel very good. Not only does it primarily boost certain figures like Q9, but it also provides very little benefit to most bonding armies of any kind if it requires an OM on that hero to activate. Given that they're one of the most common types of armies (or other, bonding-esque types of designs), I think that this version wouldn't find much use.

Removing the OM requirement does address that concern, but then you run into stuff like Gilbert sitting on the glyph and reinforcing his knights. I'm not a big fan of making another glyph that really only makes strong units stronger.

Astroking112 said:
  • Making it a temporary glyph like Kelda, but instead of fully healing the figure who stops on it, you remove 1 wound from all wounded heroes you control. That mostly encourages hero-heavy armies, which is nice.
Click to expand...

One of my concerns here is that it may be too niche. Outside of Elven Wizard builds, many armies only have a handful of Unique Heroes (or even none at all), so I can't see it being used as much as the once-per-round healing version in the long run. We've certainly had niche glyphs before, but this might be a step too far.

Additionally, it's structurally quite similar to Recall (temporary glyph that any figure can land on to achieve a small conditional heal for the army). Past Master Sets have generally had a good variety of glyphs that feel different, so having "small 'heal' for squads" and "small heal for heroes" might be a bit disappointing.

That all said, this kind of an all hero heal is more likely to find use in the AotV box, given the nature of the standalone units that we're making. I'm willing to move forward with this and see if it does end up feeling too similar to Recall.
 
Re: [Pod 0] Glyph of Healing - Design

“Heal 1 from every hero” is a decent start. We can play around with that, sure.
 
Re: [Pod 0] Glyph of Healing - Design

Possibly a mix of "heal 1 from every Hero" and "at the end of every round", but I'd rather see if we can't break the temporary version, first.
 
Re: [Pod 0] Glyph of Healing - Design

It's sounding like the "heal 1 from every Hero" temporary glyph has the most traction here, but I'd like to hold off on adding a specific direction to the OP until the rest of the pod chimes in.

Pinging @capsocrates, @All Your Pie, and @Pumpkin_King to see if they have any thoughts on the matter.
 
Re: [Pod 0] Glyph of Healing - Design

I think "heal 1 from every hero" on a temporary glyph is what works best for this set. I agree it's a shame that we aren't getting any weirdo glyphs like Mitonsoul or Proftaka in the set, but if we were going to do that then Recall would probably be the place rather than healing.

I would also be fine with a straight Kelda re-use. I just don't love the permanent glyph options, really.
 
Re: [Pod 0] Glyph of Healing - Design

That's a good starting point. Put it in the OP
 
Re: [Pod 0] Glyph of Healing - Design

Here's an attempt at hashing out the wording by copying from Recall:
Figures you control may only stop on this Glyph if there is at least one wounded hero in your army. When one of your figures stops here, remove one wound marker from all Unique Heroes you control. This glyph cannot be placed symbol-side up in any scenario you may create.
Click to expand...

I'll go ahead and put this in the OP, but feel free to point out any flaws with this wording or improvements. I left it open to squads stopping on the glyph as well, since it applies for the entire army and is pretty limited otherwise, but we can limit it to only Unique Heroes if we'd prefer.

If there are no other suggestions, then I think that we're ready to vote on moving to Editing.
 
Re: [Pod 0] Glyph of Healing - Design

How about changing "You control" to "friendly" to make the glyph help in team games?
Figures you control may only stop on this Glyph if there is at least one wounded friendly hero. When one of your figures stops here, remove one wound marker from all wounded friendly Unique Heroes. This glyph cannot be placed symbol-side up in any scenario you may create.
Click to expand...

It is definitely more powerful this way in team games, but is mitigated by the fact that people will be fighting for it.
 
Re: [Pod 0] Glyph of Healing - Design

I like that suggestion. It's definitely more powerful in team games, but many conventional armies won't get a lot of value out of the glyph in 1v1 formats anyway.
 
Re: [Pod 0] Glyph of Healing - Design

lefton4ya said:
How about changing "You control" to "friendly" to make the glyph help in team games?
Figures you control may only stop on this Glyph if there is at least one wounded friendly hero. When one of your figures stops here, remove one wound marker from all wounded friendly Unique Heroes. This glyph cannot be placed symbol-side up in any scenario you may create.
Click to expand...

It is definitely more powerful this way in team games, but is mitigated by the fact that people will be fighting for it.
Click to expand...

I like this as well. :up:
 
Re: [Pod 0] Glyph of Healing - Design

Figures you control may only stop on this Glyph if there is at least one wounded friendly hero. When one of your figures stops here, remove one wound marker from all wounded friendly Unique Heroes. This glyph cannot be placed symbol-side up in any scenario you may create.
Click to expand...

I went ahead and added this wording into the OP since a good amount of time has passed. Unless anyone has any problems with this current direction, then I think that we're good to vote on moving to Editing here.

I vote YEA to move the Glyph of Healing to Editing.
 
Re: [Pod 0] Glyph of Healing - Design

I’ve been following - no concerns that I can think of.
 
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