OEAO's Legacy Power Rankings

[OEAO]

For a better understanding of these Power Rankings, please read my State of the Meta Address companion piece that largely deals with the shifts in the Meta.

For terminology that I use in the descriptions, please read my Terminology Guide.

For the methodology behind these rankings, please listen to Rankings Methodology ft. Dok.

You can also read this for more clarification on assessing units on their own merits.

These Power Rankings are only inclusive of the Hasbro-released units from the original run of the game (2004-2010) and using the original Hasbro Point Values. For my Renegade-inclusive Power Rankings, please see OEAO's Modern Power Rankings.

These Power Rankings are meant to be a modern look at the Competitive HeroScape scene and the value each unit has within an army in a variety of formats.

Thanks to spider-poison and Jexik for creating and maintaining the older rankings.

For the reasoning behind the colors, read Jexik's excellent article What's in an Order Marker?, and listen to the Casters of Valhalla episode on this article, CoV Entry 13: Strategy with Jexik.

A+

Deathreavers (40*)
Major Q9 (180)
Marro Warriors (50)
Raelin the Kyrie Warrior-ROTV (80)

A
4th Mass. Line (70*)
10th Regiment of Foot (75*)
Blastatrons (60*)
Fen Hydra (120+)

Gladiatrons (80*)
Grimnak (120)

Heavy Gruts (70*)
Isamu (10)
Knights of Weston (70*)

Krav Maga Agents (100)

Marcu Esenwein (20)
Me-Burq-Sa (50)
Nerak the Glacian Swog Rider (50)
Nilfheim (185)
Sir Gilbert (105)

A-
Agent Skahen (120)
Airborne Elite (110)
Alastair MacDirk (110)

Arrow Gruts (40*)
The Axegrinders of Burning Forge (70*)
Blade Gruts (40*)
Braxas (210)
Cyprien Esenwein (150)

Darrak Ambershard (60)

Death Chasers of Thesk (55*)
Eldgrim the Viking Champion (30)
Eltahale (140)
Fire Elemental (35*)
Greenscale Warriors (60*)
Kaemon Awa (120)
Major Q10 (150)
Marcus Decimus Gallus (100)
Marro Dividers (50*)
Marro Stingers (60*)
Mezzodemon Warmongers (65*)
Mimring (150)

Mogrimm Forgehammer (120)
Phantom Knights (70*)
Roman Legionnaires (50*)
Zelrig (185)

B+
Arkmer (50)
Ashigaru Harquebus (60*)
Atlaga (90)
Black Wyrmling (30*)
Brave Arrow (50)

Charos (210)
Crixus (90)
Finn the Viking Champion (80)
Frost Giant of Morh (140+)
Fyorlag Spiders (40*)
Goblin Cutters (50*)

Guilty McCreech (30)
Heirloom (90)

Horned Skull Brutes (75*)

Krug (120)

Kurrok the Elementalist (120)
Laglor (110)
Marrden Hounds (90*)
Marrden Nagrubs (30*)
Migol Ironwill (110)
Minions of Utgar (110*)
Mohican River Tribe (70*)
Moltenclaw (170)
Nakita Agents (120)
Ne-Gok-Sa (90)
Ogre Pulverizer (100+)
Red Wyrmling (30*)

Sacred Band (50*)
Samuel Brown (60)
Sentinels of Jandar (110*)
Sgt. Drake Alexander-SOTM (170)
Sonya Esenwein (45)
Swog Rider (25*)
Syvarris (100)
Tandros Kreel (120)
Tarn Viking Warriors (50)
Theracus (40)
Tornak (100)
Tor-Kul-Na (220)

Valguard (110)
Venoc Vipers (40*)

Venoc Warlord (120)
Wyvern (100+)
Zetacron (60)
Zombies of Morindan (60*)



B

Air Elemental (30*)

Ana Karithon (100)
Ashigaru Yari (40*)

Aubrien Archers (70*)
Brunak (110)
Capuan Gladiators (70*)
Chardris (90)
Concan the Kyrie Warrior (80)
Estivara (80)
Ice Troll Berserker (85+)
Iron Golem (100+)

Izumi Samurai (60)
James Murphy (75)
Johnny "Shotgun" Sullivan (65)

Jorhdawn (100)
Kato Katsuro (200)

Kozuke Samurai (100)
Kyntela Gwyn (20)
MacDirk Warriors (80*)
Marro Drones (50*)
Master of the Hunt (140+)
Microcorp Agents (100*)
Ogre Warhulk (150+)

Omnicron Repulsors (40*)
Omnicron Snipers (100*)
Ornak (100)
Othkurik the Black Dragon (140)
Otonashi (10)
Parmenio (90)
Protectors of Ullar (110*)
Raelin the Kyrie Warrior-SOTM (120)
Sgt. Drake Alexander-ROTV (110)
Sir Denrick (100)
Sir Hawthorne (90)
Sonlen (160)
Spartacus (200)
Taelord the Kyrie Warrior (180)

Tagawa Samurai (120)

Thorgrim the Viking Champion (80)
Ulginesh (150)
Warforged Soldiers (80*)
Warriors of Ashra (50*)
Water Elemental (30*)

White Wyrmling (30*)

B-

Anubian Wolves (75*)

Armoc Vipers (65*)

Blue Wyrmling (35*)

Death Knights of Valkrill (60*)

Drow Chainfighter (25*)
Dumutef Guard (25*)

Dzu-Teh (75*)

Earth Elemental (35*)

Emirroon (80)
Evar Scarcarver (110)
Granite Guardians (100*)
Iskra Esenwein (50)
Kelda the Kyrie Warrior (80)

Marro Hive (160)

Morsbane (100)
Quasatch Hunters (100*)

Retiarius (90)
Rhogar Dragonspine (110)
Shurrak (160)
Siege (120)
Su-Bak-Na (160)
Sujoah (185)
Tagawa Samurai Archers (65*)

Torin (120)
Warden 816 (90)
Werewolf Lord (140+)
Wolves of Badru (80*)
Wo-Sa-Ga (135)
Zettian Guards (70)



C+
Agent Carr (100)

Brandis Skyhunter (90)

Deathstalkers (100*)
Deathwalker 8000 (130)

Deepwyrm Drow (70*)

Elite Onyx Vipers (100)

Gorillinators (90*)

Greater Ice Elemental (130+)

Jotun (225)

Kumiko (80)

Marro Drudge (50*)
Master Win Chiu Woo (140)
Mika Connour (110)
Mind Flayer Mastermind (100+)
Ninjas of the Northern Wind (110)
Shaolin Monks (80*)

Sir Dupuis (150)
Tul-Bak-Ra (130)



C
Acolarh (110)
Deathwalker 9000 (140)

The Einar Imperium (140*)

Empress Kiova (90)

Erevan Sunshadow (80)

Feral Troll (90+)
Grok Riders (130*)

Hatamoto Taro (130)
Kee-Mo-Shi (130)
Khosumet the Darklord (75)
Major X17 (100)
Roman Archers (55*)
Sahuagin Raider (25*)

Saylind the Kyrie Warrior (80)
Sharwin Wildborn (110)
Templar Cavalry (120*)

C-

Deadeye Dan (60)

Dünd (110)
Gurei-Oni (100)
Moriko (110)

Obsidian Guards (100*)
Rechets of Bogdan (50)
Runa (120)

Shades of Bleakewoode (100*)
Shiori (60)


Sudema (140)

D

Deathwalker 7000 (100)

Pelloth (100)



Unit Descriptions (In Progress):

Spoiler Alert!

10th Regiment of Foot: Almost as good as 4th Mass when you add Raelin. Marcus synergy is a nice way to consistently (yet predictably) get 4x4s. Vulnerable to range if they don't have Raelin... which they will. A
4th Massachusetts Line: The gold standard for a ranged squad, 4th Mass excel at throwing 4 attacks of 3 into targets at 6 range. A
Acolarh: Almost more useful for the additional two move he grants than for his statistically poor chance of saving an Elf at 22.48% of the time. Really doesn't have a whole lot going for him. C-
Agent Carr: Nice for his ability to create action and draw the opponent in to set up his 6-die melee attack. Not the tankiest figure so he should be used opportunistically. If you jam him in the middle, he's going to die. Kite from range and poke the edges of your opponent's army. C+
Agent Skahen: Actually better against melee than against range. Very solid ranged hero: 2x3s at 7 range is solid, and 6 move with 7 range is stupid good for kiting. Otonashi with her Cover Fire is hilariously good for the 10 points. Unfortunately, Skahen suffers from whiffs more than even Krav, as a single whiff can easily spell 2 wounds or death. A-
Airborne Elite: 4x4 at 8 after a first round Drop is crazy ridiculous. Avoid using grenades other than in a very specific few circumstances as they are a trap. Inconsistent in that they can fail to drop or just not drop when you need them to, and 2 defense is bad. A-
Air Elemental: A decent figure who is often stronger on paper than in gameplay. The problem is that he does not really help the two armies that synergies with him: Death Knights and Elementals. Death Knights already are fine vs melee, they don't want to invest points into figures that aren't helping their atrocious range matchups. Elementals outside Fire Elementals aren't really viable, and while splashing one of these in alongside Water and Earth Elementals is... ok, it's not good. B-
Alastair MacDirk: The best bruiser in the game, 2x5 in one Order Marker is fantastic. Even one squad of Knights of Weston alongside him creates great board control, staying power, and offensive potential. Works well solo or with MacDirks or Knights. Can fall fast if he's alone, but you should have Knights or Raelin with him in just about any situation anyways. A-
Ana Karithon: One of my favorite figures in the game. I spent years trying to perfect a hero podge with Tandros Kreel and Ana. Off-turn healing is fantastic, and her anti-Utgar aura is useful in a surprising percentage of games. Unfortunately, she's just a tad to pricey for what she brings to the table. At 80 points, I'd be totally in. B
Anubian Wolves: The Anubians are cool. 6 move, 4 defense is great. The problem obviously lies in their special ability. It's very swingy, but a smart player will make sure to set up each turn as if they'll hit a nice roll the next turn. Unfortunately, the same can be said for the opponent; they can make sure that even if you hit that great roll, you can't decimate their army (generally through protecting their key figures and setting up tethers). B-
Arkmer: Arkmer's biggest problem is that both the Marro Warriors and Me-Burq-Sa exist. 4 dice at 5 range is very strong and Engagement Strike 13 is super nice. Arkmer straddles the line between a screen unit and a bruiser and somehow manages to be extremely solid at both at a budget price. B+
Armoc Vipers: Armocs just do not have much going for them. 65 points for 3 figures with 3 defense who's best bonding option is Mittens is just not worth it. 1-2x Armocs and Mittens is mediocre but not horrible; however, that has more to do with Mittens and less to do with the Armocs themselves. B-
Arrow Gruts: The worst orc squad still has quite a bit going for them with a great threat range and solid bonding choices. Swogs make them offensively relevant and Krug is a tank. B+
Ashigaru Harquebus: 3-4x Harqs and Raelin is essentially budget 4th. Just make sure to leave Kato home. B+
Ashigaru Yari: Yari are pretty bad. While Encircle is better than the Zombies' Horde Attack, they are much worse than Zombies at everything else. C+
Atlaga the Kyrie Warrior: Atlaga suffers from having to pay for what is quite possibly the worst designed special ability in the game, Bolt of the Witherwood. It should never have existed and do not count on it to win you games. Barring that, extra move on the Kyrie squads and Raelin is nice, and 4 dice at 5 range on a flying figure is solid. However, he is fragile and lacks the higher range needed to be able to stay back farther and kite more effectively. B+
Aubrien Archers: Aubrien Archers are pretty solid and can absolutely dominate if they hit a couple key Frenzies. 7 range in particular is amazing in that they outrange 4th Mass and 10th Reg. However, low attack and defense at a fairly high cost keep their power level in check. B
The Axegrinders of Burning Forge: The Dwarves are fantastic and are clearly the third best 4-man bonding melee squad in the game, only to Heavies and Knights. While I could talk about Dwarves forever, the main points are that they have solid stats, two excellent bonding heroes in Mogrimm and Darrak, and the option to forego bonding for 6 move. This last point is the biggest advantage they have as it lets them establish board control and develop up much better than Heavies. The only thing that keeps them in check is the lack of a 4th defense die, and generally you should not take Raelin with them. A-
Black Wyrmling: The best Wyrmling is an efficient use of 30 points. While an army strictly comprised of Wyrmlings will fail, 3-4 Black Wyrmlings has proven to be a very efficient threat that neither eats up too many points nor fills up too many start zone spaces. B+
Blade Gruts: Perhaps the most underrated bonding melee squad in the game. Movement is very underrated, and 6 move provides amazing incremental positional advantages that add up over the course of the game. While Blades suffer from a terrible matchup against Q9, the rest of their matchup spread in the current meta is fine. Their main problem is that they don't have any blowout matchups in their favor. A-
Blastatrons: Trons were once a T1 army. Modern figure limits have hurt the viability of Trons a lot. Blasts are nice in that they can be a decent-enough army without any Gladiatrons, using other Blasts to fuel their Homing Devices. I still rank them an A because if figure limits hit 20+ again, they will be back in force. A
Blue Wyrmling: The worst Wyrmling is also the most expensive. His special is real bad, but his normal attack is nice. If you're not finding room for White Wyrmling, you're not finding room for this one. B-
Brandis Skyhunter: Brandis is pretty interesting. With the prevalence of Raelin, Dragons, and Wyrmlings in the meta, he isn't a terrible choice. However, he needs a multitude of tweaks to make him playable. 7 range would let him outrange WTF squads. Being able to Archer's Glory off common heroes would let him destroy Wyrmlings. These changes and -15 points and he'd be a solid choice. As is, you're better off with Syvarris. C+
Brave Arrow: Good for 50 points in a Mohican build, bad elsewhere. His melee enhancement is nice, and his normal attack of 4 is also good. Unfortunately, the Mohicans needing to have two of them engaged AFTER their turn in order to bond with Brave Arrow hurts; if it was before using the Mohicans, it'd be a good deal better. B+
Braxas: Braxas is very, very good. However, she isn't great; she is too matchup specific and fragile. 8 life behind 3 defense gets burned down real quick. Her special attack is potent, but disproportionally hurts poorly-built armies than competitive armies, due to the larger number of squads in better armies. 210 points is a lot to pay for a figure who, while she can win games, she can also be nearly useless. A-
Brunak: Brunak's ok. 3 life is really bad, but 6 move, 7 defense, Carry, and Blood Hungry SA are all good. If Brunak was 5 life, he'd be an A-. As is, he is too susceptible to taking cheap hits. B

Feedback welcomed! Happy ‘Scaping!

 

[superfrog]

Re: Orc's Power Rankings

There's weird artifacts throughout (at least on my computer), they look like this: 



What does S mean, for Raelin?

 

[itsbuzzi]

Re: Orc's Power Rankings

There's weird artifacts throughout (at least on my computer), they look like this: 



What does S mean, for Raelin?

Basically higher than A+. An alternative ranking to the standard grade system we and the American education system used (A, B, C, D, F) that goes SSS, SS, S, A, B, C, D, F. This system originated because A rank didn't cut it for some which I suppose is the case here. Can't wait for the SS and SSS figures to reveal themselves.

 

[Lazy Orang]

Re: Orc's Power Rankings

Not sure I buy Raelin being stronger than Q9.

 

[wriggz]

Re: Orc's Power Rankings

Not sure I buy Raelin being stronger than Q9.

Given an option between bringing any army that includes Raelin, or any army that includes Q9, I think Raelin would be the safer bet. However, I don't think she is a whole grade better.

As far as Artifacts go, there are some other moves that seem odd...

Atlaga*(90, A-)
Still seems like a good sniper and with more heroes that bolt may be more useful, as well as 120 for other common clean up is fairly pricey in smaller armies.

Marcu Esenwein (20, A-) and Marro Warriors (50, A)
Don't see why these guys should be with the big boys. If you have 20 points left you should rebuild your army instead of throwing in a clean up figure.



Ashigaru Harquebus (60*, B-) not sure how they can be better when the startzones are smaller and points are less for the 200 point hero.


MacDirk Warriors (80*, C+) How?

Minions of Utgar (110*, A-)
and Sentinels of Jandar (110*, A-) again if the start zones are smaller, shouldn't they stay the same in value?

Tarn Viking Warriors (50, C+) again, how?

Khosumet the Darklord (75, C) ha, ha, ha. No.

It seems like you have a preference for Unique squads and fillers. I think if you are building an army that includes fillers you are building the wrong army for that point total. Also if you theory is that reverse the whip is the drive, I think you should look at the Bugbears and Mohicans. Those are tough units to use well. I think the Sacred Band is also undervalued if you know what you are doing. The Warforged are another tricky squad to get the most out of which may make them valuable if you know how to use them well.

 

[Mr Migraine]

Re: Orc's Power Rankings

Marcu Esenwein (20, A-) and Marro Warriors (50, A)
Don't see why these guys should be with the big boys. If you have 20 points left you should rebuild your army instead of throwing in a clean up figure.

A lot (sometimes most?) of Marcu's value comes from being able to soak up wounds from the Wannok glyph, which is pretty common in Gen Con maps. Whether that warrants an A+ is debatable and really depends on what year it is.

 

[wriggz]

Re: Orc's Power Rankings

Marcu Esenwein (20, A-) and Marro Warriors (50, A)
Don't see why these guys should be with the big boys. If you have 20 points left you should rebuild your army instead of throwing in a clean up figure.

A lot (sometimes most?) of Marcu's value comes from being able to soak up wounds from the Wannok glyph, which is pretty common in Gen Con maps. Whether that warrants an A+ is debatable and really depends on what year it is.

Okay, but Q9's guns are always valuable (even his regular attack is valuable to out range waiting 4th or to attack an iron golem). Deathreavers clog up basically everything, (even orcs can't move through them). A figure that might soak up wounds if a glyph is on the board and your opponent has is far more situational. The Marro Warriors are fairly good, but 2 attack is still pretty rough. If you are activating them, then something bad happened to the rest of your army.

 

[Dad_Scaper]

Re: Orc's Power Rankings

The Marro Warriors are fairly good, but 2 attack is still pretty rough. If you are activating them, then something bad happened to the rest of your army.

Au contraire, in many builds where you see the Marro Warriors, you seem them come out first. They give you a huge threat range for only 50 points, and 4 attacks per turn, even with only 2 dice on even ground, can't be ignored forever.

 

[OEAO]

Re: Orc's Power Rankings

There's weird artifacts throughout (at least on my computer), they look like this: 



What does S mean, for Raelin?

Basically higher than A+. An alternative ranking to the standard grade system we and the American education system used (A, B, C, D, F) that goes SSS, SS, S, A, B, C, D, F. This system originated because A rank didn't cut it for some which I suppose is the case here. Can't wait for the SS and SSS figures to reveal themselves.

This. S is the top tier; in this case, just Raelin. I don't foresee a need for SS or SSS in this scenario.

 

[OEAO]

Re: Orc's Power Rankings

The Marro Warriors are fairly good, but 2 attack is still pretty rough. If you are activating them, then something bad happened to the rest of your army.

Au contraire, in many builds where you see the Marro Warriors, you seem them come out first. They give you a huge threat range for only 50 points, and 4 attacks per turn, even with only 2 dice on even ground, can't be ignored forever.

It's also worth noting that Marro Warriors are one of the highest-skill units to use in the game. In the hands of an S-Tier or Tier 1 player, they are incredible and well worth the points. In the hands of a weaker player, they are merely good or great.

 

[Lazy Orang]

Re: Orc's Power Rankings

I think the Sacred Band is also undervalued if you know what you are doing.

I've been a big fan of the Sacred Band for a long time, ever since I finally picked them up (they were some of the last official units I got, partially due to their reputation...). I think they're massively underrated. Granted, I think they're tonnes better now than they were when they were released - the need to take an all Disciplined army is a lot less painful now we have a lot of strong Disciplined units around, including the Redcoats. They need an all Disciplined build and Marcus to work well (that third defence die and fifth move point are both essential), but once you've got that, I think they're arguably better than the Romans due to not needing to maintain a tight formation, allowing greater flexibility and easier management. You can then essentially use them almost like Knights or Heavy Gruts, and while both of those are still better (Knights are tougher and Heavy Gruts have both Disengage and Heroes who can boost them to really high levels), they're also 20 points more expensive per squad. Don't bother with Parmenio, though - he's just bad.

 

[OEAO]

Re: Orc's Power Rankings

I think the Sacred Band is also undervalued if you know what you are doing.

I've been a big fan of the Sacred Band for a long time, ever since I finally picked them up (they were some of the last official units I got, partially due to their reputation...). I think they're massively underrated. Granted, I think they're tonnes better now than they were when they were released - the need to take an all Disciplined army is a lot less painful now we have a lot of strong Disciplined units around, including the Redcoats. They need an all Disciplined build and Marcus to work well (that third defence die and fifth move point are both essential), but once you've got that, I think they're arguably better than the Romans due to not needing to maintain a tight formation. You can then essentially use them almost like Knights or Heavy Gruts, and while both of those are still better, they're also 20 points more expensive per squad. Don't bother with Parmenio, though - he's just bad.

Unfortunately, mixing squads of 10th and Sacred Band is significantly worse as of late, seeing as you don't have 24 hexes to play with.

Their biggest problem when compared to Romans is they lack a killer bonding hero: Me-Burq-Sa. MBS is absolutely incredible for his points, and a bonding range option is really the only thing Romans have over other bonding melee. They also have a defense cap of 3, and the 4th die is huge. This really, really, REALLY hurts, and is a huge reason why they are a B+.

I also disagree they can be used like Gruts- Gruts need to maintain formation. That's the only way to get the most value out of them. Romans are much closer in play style to Gruts than SB.

All this being said, SB are a middling to high B+. They're extremely solid... just not good enough to be an A-.

 

[OEAO]

Re: Orc's Power Rankings

There's weird artifacts throughout (at least on my computer), they look like this: 



What does S mean, for Raelin?

Copying from Word is a pain in the rear. I'll try to edit out as many of the *s in random places. Thanks!

 

[Lazy Orang]

Re: Orc's Power Rankings

I think the Sacred Band is also undervalued if you know what you are doing.

I've been a big fan of the Sacred Band for a long time, ever since I finally picked them up (they were some of the last official units I got, partially due to their reputation...). I think they're massively underrated. Granted, I think they're tonnes better now than they were when they were released - the need to take an all Disciplined army is a lot less painful now we have a lot of strong Disciplined units around, including the Redcoats. They need an all Disciplined build and Marcus to work well (that third defence die and fifth move point are both essential), but once you've got that, I think they're arguably better than the Romans due to not needing to maintain a tight formation. You can then essentially use them almost like Knights or Heavy Gruts, and while both of those are still better, they're also 20 points more expensive per squad. Don't bother with Parmenio, though - he's just bad.

Unfortunately, mixing squads of 10th and Sacred Band is significantly worse as of late, seeing as you don't have 24 hexes to play with.

Their biggest problem when compared to Romans is they lack a killer bonding hero: Me-Burq-Sa. MBS is absolutely incredible for his points, and a bonding range option is really the only thing Romans have over other bonding melee. They also have a defense cap of 3, and the 4th die is huge. This really, really, REALLY hurts, and is a huge reason why they are a B+.

I also disagree they can be used like Gruts- Gruts need to maintain formation. That's the only way to get the most value out of them. Romans are much closer in play style to Gruts than SB.

All this being said, SB are a middling to high B+. They're extremely solid... just not good enough to be an A-.

Good points, all - not having the space to pair them with Redcoats hurts, and Me-Burq-Sa is a solid bonding hero it's a shame to lose. No 4th Defence die does hurt, but all things being equal I think I'd usually prefer the strategic flexibility, especially since the Romans will be defending on equal or lower numbers once they start to be wittled down. In 24-space General Wars, at least, I reckon SB are a better choice than Romans.

That's also a good point with the Gruts, though I think their stats are solid enough to allow them to break formation a little more readily than Romans, particularly since Disengage may allow them to go after a juicy target behind enemy lines (i.e. Raelin).

 

[OEAO]

Re: Orc's Power Rankings

I think the Sacred Band is also undervalued if you know what you are doing.

I've been a big fan of the Sacred Band for a long time, ever since I finally picked them up (they were some of the last official units I got, partially due to their reputation...). I think they're massively underrated. Granted, I think they're tonnes better now than they were when they were released - the need to take an all Disciplined army is a lot less painful now we have a lot of strong Disciplined units around, including the Redcoats. They need an all Disciplined build and Marcus to work well (that third defence die and fifth move point are both essential), but once you've got that, I think they're arguably better than the Romans due to not needing to maintain a tight formation. You can then essentially use them almost like Knights or Heavy Gruts, and while both of those are still better, they're also 20 points more expensive per squad. Don't bother with Parmenio, though - he's just bad.

Unfortunately, mixing squads of 10th and Sacred Band is significantly worse as of late, seeing as you don't have 24 hexes to play with.

Their biggest problem when compared to Romans is they lack a killer bonding hero: Me-Burq-Sa. MBS is absolutely incredible for his points, and a bonding range option is really the only thing Romans have over other bonding melee. They also have a defense cap of 3, and the 4th die is huge. This really, really, REALLY hurts, and is a huge reason why they are a B+.

I also disagree they can be used like Gruts- Gruts need to maintain formation. That's the only way to get the most value out of them. Romans are much closer in play style to Gruts than SB.

All this being said, SB are a middling to high B+. They're extremely solid... just not good enough to be an A-.

Good points, all - not having the space to pair them with Redcoats hurts, and Me-Burq-Sa is a solid bonding hero it's a shame to lose. No 4th Defence die does hurt, but all things being equal I think I'd usually prefer the strategic flexibility, especially since the Romans will be defending on equal or lower numbers once they start to be wittled down. In 24-space General Wars, at least, I reckon SB are a better choice than Romans.

That's also a good point with the Gruts, though I think their stats are solid enough to allow them to break formation a little more readily than Romans, particularly since Disengage may allow them to go after a juicy target behind enemy lines (i.e. Raelin).

SB are a nice choice in a 24 hex GW, although I'd still take Romans. If it was still 24 hexes, I might bump them to A-. I really do like them a lot (I'm a sucker for bonding melee, hence Spiders at B). Bonding melee can never truly be bad (except for Groks...)

Absolutely right on Gruts being able to break formation a bit more... although Tethering is absolutely vital for Heavies, whereas it's not quite as necessary for Romans or SB. (I'll have a whole article dedicated solely to the strategy of Tethering in the next month or so).

Looking at the rankings again, there are maybe a couple units I'd bump up to A- before Sacred Band and that's it. They're an Elite B+.

Thanks for the input!

 

[OEAO]

Re: Orc's Power Rankings

Not sure I buy Raelin being stronger than Q9.

Given an option between bringing any army that includes Raelin, or any army that includes Q9, I think Raelin would be the safer bet. However, I don't think she is a whole grade better.

As far as Artifacts go, there are some other moves that seem odd...

Atlaga*(90, A-)
Still seems like a good sniper and with more heroes that bolt may be more useful, as well as 120 for other common clean up is fairly pricey in smaller armies.

Marcu Esenwein (20, A-) and Marro Warriors (50, A)
Don't see why these guys should be with the big boys. If you have 20 points left you should rebuild your army instead of throwing in a clean up figure.



Ashigaru Harquebus (60*, B-) not sure how they can be better when the startzones are smaller and points are less for the 200 point hero.


MacDirk Warriors (80*, C+) How?

Minions of Utgar (110*, A-)
and Sentinels of Jandar (110*, A-) again if the start zones are smaller, shouldn't they stay the same in value?

Tarn Viking Warriors (50, C+) again, how?

Khosumet the Darklord (75, C) ha, ha, ha. No.

It seems like you have a preference for Unique squads and fillers. I think if you are building an army that includes fillers you are building the wrong army for that point total. Also if you theory is that reverse the whip is the drive, I think you should look at the Bugbears and Mohicans. Those are tough units to use well. I think the Sacred Band is also undervalued if you know what you are doing. The Warforged are another tricky squad to get the most out of which may make them valuable if you know how to use them well.

A lot of stuff here, appreciate the input!

Raelin provides more value for her points than any other unit, and makes just about any army better for an insanely cheap price. She'd be an A+ at 90 points; at 80, she's a bargain. Q9 is great, but he isn't quite on her level (he's also not as efficient as Rats or possibly Marro Warriors).

Atlaga: a single-attack per turn, non-bonding hero with a once-per-game power that maybe swings a game doesn't belong on the level of A-'s. He's really not that efficient, and he's extremely squishy with a very short range. That said, he's not bad, but I don't think I bring him over, say, Concan, who has an amazing body (4/4 with 5 life for only 80 points).

MWs and Marcus are amazing. MWs are incredible in the hands of an amazing player; I'd rather give just about any other unit in RtW to my opponent than MWs. Marcu is incredibly efficient. 6 life with 4 attack is great, and, more than Isamu, is consistently worth the low investment.

Harqs by themselves are a nice alternative to 4th and 10th. Kato and Yari are bad, but 3x Harqs and Raelin at 260 is a surprisingly solid core.

MacDirks are very potent with Raelin and Alastair. They will quickly hit Heavy and Knight level stats. The potency of 6 quality attacks in a turn can not be understated. 3x MacDirks, Raelin, and Alastair is quite solid, and I'd take it over anything rated lower than B+, as well as some of the B+s.

Minions and Sentinels were never A- to begin with. The meta shift has no real effect on them (outside of the increase of Hounds, which wreck them).

Tarn are almost always worth the 50 points. They proved a cheap screen alternative for Rats. They give up Scatter to gain actual offensive relevance.

Khosumet should be a C, that's from an earlier draft. Good catch! Wasn't paying attention to the low units.

RtW isn't the only drive, but it is considered. HSBs and Mohicans are good, but B+ is very accurate for their power level. I already discussed the reasoning for SB in this thread. Warforged are ok, but really, they aren't as good as the other things, and they also are pretty easy to play, making them a bad choice for RtW. They're a strong B, but not a weak B+.

 

[OEAO]

Re: Orc's Power Rankings

Don't see why these guys should be with the big boys. If you have 20 points left you should rebuild your army instead of throwing in a clean up figure.

I think if you are building an army that includes fillers you are building the wrong army for that point total.

I really don't understand this at all. Historically, this is inaccurate. Many winning armies in all types of events contain fillers. While an interesting army building theory, the results indicate otherwise.

If you peruse the results, you'll especially notice the prevalence of Marro Warriors.

 

[itsbuzzi]

Re: Orc's Power Rankings

There's weird artifacts throughout (at least on my computer), they look like this: 



What does S mean, for Raelin?

Basically higher than A+. An alternative ranking to the standard grade system we and the American education system used (A, B, C, D, F) that goes SSS, SS, S, A, B, C, D, F. This system originated because A rank didn't cut it for some which I suppose is the case here. Can't wait for the SS and SSS figures to reveal themselves.

This. S is the top tier; in this case, just Raelin. I don't foresee a need for SS or SSS in this scenario.

Sarcasm. But if you did want to reorder the rankings to spread them out more you do have those top 2 tiers empty.

 

[kolakoski]

Re: Orc's Power Rankings


Well met!

Excuse my ignorance - what is splashing?

 

[OEAO]

Re: Orc's Power Rankings

Well met!

Excuse my ignorance - what is splashing?

Nothing to excuse- I should define terminology I use. Splashing generally is the use of a common (or commons) as either 1-ofs or 2-ofs. Splashing Mezzos is incredibly strong, for example- 1x Mezzos is a good use of 65 points.

Splashing in a common (or unique) for the sake of dealing with a specific matchup/unit type is known as teching- Phantom Knights and Warriors of Ashra are both great techs because they do what they do extremely efficiently.

Hope that clears it up!

 

[dok]

Re: Orc's Power Rankings

Marcu and Isamu are both hard to rank. Marcu is a questionable cleanup figure, and not great as an early game glyph grabber... both because of his eternal hatred. However, as long as the wound glyph is common in tournament play, Marcu is no worse than an A. I personally tend towards leaving Marcu at A.

Isamu is difficult for other reasons, some of which, like the length of rounds in tournament play, are really hard to consider in rankings. However, it's safe to say that probably no unit - not even Raelin or Q9 - blows up as far beyond its list value as often as Isamu does. I think A is fine for Isamu but A+ or S would be fine too. Really, where you rank Isamu in that range says more about the way you are deciding rankings than it does about how good Isamu is.

FWIW I really like Marcu, while Isamu is one of my bottom 3 least favorite units in the game.

 

[lefton4ya]

Re: Orc's Power Rankings

I think we need a completely separate ranking based exclusively on RTW format, in which case the "more complicated" units that are normally B- to A- would be ranked highest. Look at Gencon and other RTW tournament results from the last 6 years and pick out the units in the most winning armies.

 

[OEAO]

Re: Orc's Power Rankings

Marcu and Isamu are both hard to rank. Marcu is a questionable cleanup figure, and not great as an early game glyph grabber... both because of his eternal hatred. However, as long as the wound glyph is common in tournament play, Marcu is no worse than an A. I personally tend towards leaving Marcu at A.

Isamu is difficult for other reasons, some of which, like the length of rounds in tournament play, are really hard to consider in rankings. However, it's safe to say that probably no unit - not even Raelin or Q9 - blows up as far beyond its list value as often as Isamu does. I think A is fine for Isamu but A+ or S would be fine too. Really, where you rank Isamu in that range says more about the way you are deciding rankings than it does about how good Isamu is.

FWIW I really like Marcu, while Isamu is one of my bottom 3 least favorite units in the game.

I would disagree on Isamu in that I've also seen Marcu do the same thing thanks to his incredible stats. Marcu has a high potential ceiling (not quite as high as Isamu's), but his floor is also quite a bit higher than Isamu's. Marcu will generally do at least something, and 6 life is fantastic with Wannok. Also, Marcu is awesome with Ornak (not a factor in Marcu's rating, but certainly a nice bonus).

I am interested what you mean in the bolded. I mainly look at efficiency and consistency: how efficient is this unit for its cost and how swingy of a unit is. I try not to look too heavily at opportunity cost, but it is inevitable.

For example, I view Airborne and Cyprien as A-'s because they just aren't quite consistent enough. At their peaks, they're borderline A+. At their lows...

FWIW, Wannok is also the reason why I moved Otonashi and Kyntella up to B.

 

[OEAO]

Re: Orc's Power Rankings

I think we need a completely separate ranking based exclusively on RTW format, in which case the "more complicated" units that are normally B- to A- would be ranked highest. Look at Gencon and other RTW tournament results from the last 6 years and pick out the units in the most winning armies.

Hmm. An interesting idea, but I'm not quite sure how you'd compile it, especially for any units that haven't really been used (the KoM are constantly theorizing about new usages for units, especially splashes).

Also, armies are often comprised of some better and some worse units in RtW. Just being present isn't indicative of power; often times, it's to weaken the rest of the army.

 

[vegietarian18]

Re: Orc's Power Rankings

I agree with Marro Warriors up to A+: they are very good and definitely the most undercosted unit in the game

I do not agree with Blade Gruts at A- but it is the Orc rankings

MBS is the best bonding hero in the game and should obviously be A. Good call