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nyys map thread - Forgotten Wellspring 10/31/22 *Index Pg 1*

Re: nyys map thread *Contradiction* 11/03/09

I like it. I'd like to see more maps that don't worry about aesthetics, but instead focus on the terrain. A heavy snow/slippery ice map with a volcano pathway through the middle would be an interesting challenge.

That was the next combo that I thought of that follows this 'mold,' just nothing has come to me yet.
 
Re: nyys map thread *Divided* 12/17/09 *Index Page 1*

1/7/10 Divided updated by Divided V2
-made more glyph friendly (equidistant from SZs)
-all figures can use steps to gain top of walls

Divided V2 Download
Requires 1 RotV, 1 FotA, 2 RttFF
Glyphs: Attack +1, Defense +1, Move +2

dividedv2-01_qp7.jpg


DividedV2-02.jpg



This map was inspired by KCU Master 2007's Inner Courtyard which was recently up for BoV review. The use of the trees/walls to cover the glyphs I thought was a great idea in order to force the choice of the wall or the glyphs for the ranged units that want to go for height. Do you take the wall allowing your opponent to have the glyphs and nullify your height advantage to an extent, or go for the glyphs but leave yourself open to easy attack?

I found in my games (on Inner Courtyard) that the ranged armies were not quite stretched far enough apart to cover each part of the map. This is what spurred the idea that became Divided. Using the trees to cover glyphs on both sides of the map, and another under the walls makes for a lot of areas that need to be paid attention too.

In the games I played on Divided (about a dozen) it wasn't very cut and dry for the ranged units to just take the wall. First it takes a little while to get up there, and some units are forced to use the ladder as opposed to using the road bonus (since updated 1/7/10). WTF Units are going to find they will not be getting that extra attack right away.

Placement of the roads tiles also allowed for melee armies to quickly move across the board and in some cases clash in the opposite start zone before too many could take the wall. There are also many ways to get up on the wall, so if melee is forced to climb, there are several places that need to be covered.

Rats... they are good on every map, but with all the choices on this one, they couldn't be everywhere at once, giving the opposition plenty of opportunity to take a glyph or two.

I tried many other 'A' units and found (in limited play with each) that there was no clear winner here, everyone always seemed to have a chance, which I think is am indicator of a pretty good map.

Occasionally we all build a map of which we are particularly fond. That's what has happened here for me with Divided. In the games I played on it no clear advantage took shape for any type of army. Granted, only a dozen plays leaves out plenty of army combinations so there could be one out there that will dominate, but in my experience I think you will enjoy this map.

OK, all that said, someone go ahead and rip my guts out by finding something obviously wrong. :)
 
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Re: nyys map thread *Divided* 12/17/09 *Index Page 1*

OK, all that said, someone go ahead and rip my guts out by finding something obviously wrong. :)

The only thing wrong is that I won't get to play this map for a while yet (post-Christmas at least). :(

Seriously, it looks like a lot of fun. I have a long list of maps I want to play- this will displace one of them from the top of the list.

Great job!
 
Re: nyys map thread *Divided* 12/17/09 *Index Page 1*

Awesome map nyys. I'll be adding it to my "symmetric castle map" thread shortly, and it joins "swamp helix" as the only other map on the list that uses the archway. By using more floor space/material than "swamp helix", you've mitigated the tendency for the map to get clogged up.

Three comments/concerns/suggestions:

  1. The jump from level 8 to level 12, from the second-to-last step to the platform, is problematic. While you do provide a ladder, using the ladder breaks the road bonus. This creates a bottleneck and restricts platform access for a bunch of common builds, including B-trons, gruts, agents, and marro.

    More importantly, Marrden Hounds can't reach the height at all. This is why Swamp Helix uses (and, presumably, why Inner Courtyard uses) three steps up.

  2. The locations of the glyphs could probably be shifted a bit to be more balanced. As it stands, the left-hand glyph is obtainable on OM 2 for nearly any army, while the right-hand glyph takes three OMs to reach. While Astrid and Gerda are both really strong, one or the other is definitely more desireable for many armies. I think a 2-hex shift for each of them would balance it out.

  3. From an aesthetic perspective I like them, but do the battlements on top really accomplish anything for gameplay? The platform is already enticing enough, and adding battlements just makes it better. I struggled with this particular question a lot on "swamp helix" before stripping off some of the battlements, but leaving others that I thought served a purpose of protecting part of the platform from another part of the platform. On this map, my theoryscape instincts are that no battlements on level 12 would be a gameplay improvement.
 
Re: nyys map thread *Divided* 12/17/09 *Index Page 1*

Thanks dok, I'll answer your points in kind:

1) Taking away the road bonus from height 4 figures though not on purpose when I first built the map, was left as it is intentionally once I realized it. Couple reasons for this 1) ranged units don't need any more help getting up the steps quicker. Slowing them down a bit I think is necessary on a map with castle walls (though I think most if not all are not affected by this).

It does cause problems for melee units of the same height, but that's where the multiple entry points and the strong glyphs come into play. I actually found that with some armies, ignoring the steps and going for the ladders further down is a better strategy.

As for the hounds, collateral damage. I tried to find a way for them to get up there, but I ran out of usable hexes, and changing other parts of the map to steal some away would have too drastically change things for what I was trying to accomplish.

2) There is a bit of an imbalance with the glyph locations but my play-tests revealed this not to be a big problem. If it is a concern of one or both of the players using the map they can go to the D20 to pick start zones.

Though sliding that row of hexes a couple spaces to make then equi-accessible (I made up a word) is probably a good idea.

3) The battlements are pretty much there for aesthetics, the map just looks better with them. If it turns out though that taking some of them out will make it a better map, I'm all for it.
 
Re: nyys map thread *Divided* 12/17/09 *Index Page 1*

Thanks dok, I'll answer your points in kind:

1) Taking away the road bonus from height 4 figures though not on purpose when I first built the map, was left as it is intentionally once I realized it. Couple reasons for this 1) ranged units don't need any more help getting up the steps quicker. Slowing them down a bit I think is necessary on a map with castle walls (though I think most if not all are not affected by this).
Got it; it's not a bug, it's a feature! ;)

While it's a bit odd to punish Agents and Marro and Blasties but not the other elite range, I do see your point that it's not exactly a bad thing to nerf some of them a bit, even if you can't whack all of them with the same stick.
It does cause problems for melee units of the same height, but that's where the multiple entry points and the strong glyphs come into play. I actually found that with some armies, ignoring the steps and going for the ladders further down is a better strategy.
Yeah, it's an annoyance for Gruts or WoA or NotNW or Kozuke, but not exactly a game-breaker.

As for the hounds, collateral damage. I tried to find a way for them to get up there, but I ran out of usable hexes, and changing other parts of the map to steal some away would have too drastically change things for what I was trying to accomplish.
You're only using 6/10 7-hexers, right? You could just elevate the entire stair complex by sliding two 7-hexers under it, and yank out one of the two-hexers boosting the top step. That way, the first road is on level 3 in stead of ground level, and the next steps are on levels 6 and 9. YMMV, but that doesn't seem like a drastic change to me.

2) There is a bit of an imbalance with the glyph locations but my play-tests revealed this not to be a big problem. If it is a concern of one or both of the players using the map they can go to the D20 to pick start zones.

Though sliding that row of hexes a couple spaces to make then equi-accessible (I made up a word) is probably a good idea.
Good word, too! Personally, I find the "you can always roll off d20s" argument to be a bit of a cop-out: the map should be designed for balance. But like you say, it's easily accounted for.

3) The battlements are pretty much there for aesthetics, the map just looks better with them. If it turns out though that taking some of them out will make it a better map, I'm all for it.
Three words: crouching airborne elite.
 
Re: nyys map thread *Divided* 12/17/09 *Index Page 1*

dok said:
As for the hounds, collateral damage. I tried to find a way for them to get up there, but I ran out of usable hexes, and changing other parts of the map to steal some away would have too drastically change things for what I was trying to accomplish.

You're only using 6/10 7-hexers, right? You could just elevate the entire stair complex by sliding two 7-hexers under it, and yank out one of the two-hexers boosting the top step. That way, the first road is on level 3 in stead of ground level, and the next steps are on levels 6 and 9. YMMV, but that doesn't seem like a drastic change to me.

Completely missed that when I was trying to 'steal' hexes. Depending on how the 7-hexer was placed, looks like I'd either lose a water hex and raise the ground level road hexes by one, or have to slightly shift the whole stair complex. Cool, now I have an excuse to play with VS tonight to see what I can come up with. :)
 
Re: nyys map thread *Divided* 12/17/09 *Index Page 1*

dok said:
As for the hounds, collateral damage. I tried to find a way for them to get up there, but I ran out of usable hexes, and changing other parts of the map to steal some away would have too drastically change things for what I was trying to accomplish.

You're only using 6/10 7-hexers, right? You could just elevate the entire stair complex by sliding two 7-hexers under it, and yank out one of the two-hexers boosting the top step. That way, the first road is on level 3 in stead of ground level, and the next steps are on levels 6 and 9. YMMV, but that doesn't seem like a drastic change to me.

Completely missed that when I was trying to 'steal' hexes. Depending on how the 7-hexer was placed, looks like I'd either lose a water hex and raise the ground level road hexes by one, or have to slightly shift the whole stair complex. Cool, now I have an excuse to play with VS tonight to see what I can come up with. :)
Yeah, I was thinking lose a water hex, but you could make a different change, too.
 
Re: nyys map thread *Divided* 12/17/09 *Index Page 1*

dok said:
As for the hounds, collateral damage. I tried to find a way for them to get up there, but I ran out of usable hexes, and changing other parts of the map to steal some away would have too drastically change things for what I was trying to accomplish.

You're only using 6/10 7-hexers, right? You could just elevate the entire stair complex by sliding two 7-hexers under it, and yank out one of the two-hexers boosting the top step. That way, the first road is on level 3 in stead of ground level, and the next steps are on levels 6 and 9. YMMV, but that doesn't seem like a drastic change to me.

Completely missed that when I was trying to 'steal' hexes. Depending on how the 7-hexer was placed, looks like I'd either lose a water hex and raise the ground level road hexes by one, or have to slightly shift the whole stair complex. Cool, now I have an excuse to play with VS tonight to see what I can come up with. :)
Yeah, I was thinking lose a water hex, but you could make a different change, too.
You could always put the water hex on top of the exposed 7-hex I'm sure the Microcorp and Marro Warriors won't mind. It will become a minor shooter tower, but it can't compare with the ease figures are able to climb above and fire down from the actual hieght of the map.
 
Re: nyys map thread *Divided* 12/17/09 *Index Page 1*

You could always put the water hex on top of the exposed 7-hex I'm sure the Microcorp and Marro Warriors won't mind. It will become a minor shooter tower, but it can't compare with the ease figures are able to climb above and fire down from the actual hieght of the map.

That could work, didn't get a chance to play with the map last night. :?
 
Re: nyys map thread *Divided V2* 1/7/10 *Index Page 1*

Wow, nyys! Divided looks fantatic! I'm definitely going to have to try thisone out the next time I get a chance.

One thought though, do the corners of the map, bhind th ruins, get much play? The ruins blocking LoS would be a decent incentive for certain units to take that route, but have any actually done it in your playtests?
 
Re: nyys map thread *Divided V2* 1/7/10 *Index Page 1*

A while back on NHSD I played on Viper Valley with my viper army, it was awesome! Thank You for the great map!
 
Re: nyys map thread *Divided V2* 1/7/10 *Index Page 1*

Wow, nyys! Divided looks fantatic! I'm definitely going to have to try thisone out the next time I get a chance.

One thought though, do the corners of the map, bhind th ruins, get much play? The ruins blocking LoS would be a decent incentive for certain units to take that route, but have any actually done it in your playtests?

I becomes very useful against ranged units that scale the wall quickly, the Protectors especially. It is the area that sees the least play, but it did have its uses depending on the armies.


A while back on NHSD I played on Viper Valley with my viper army, it was awesome! Thank You for the great map!

Thanks Killz, glad you liked it. Still trying to figure out a 3rd map for the 'Viper Series' (at least that what I'll call it if I ever think of the 3rd).
 
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Re: nyys map thread *Divided V2* 1/7/10 *Index Page 1*

nyys, Divided looks great, but I noticed one discrepancy (assuming you were going for total symmetry, of course :D). The ladders going from the ground (level 2) to the top of the platform are not exactly even on both sides. I'm not sure which it should be, but it would seem that one of the two ladder placements needs to be shifted to the other side of the column it is located on now.

It doesn't seem like too big a deal, but it is a difference between 5 spaces to reach the ladder versus 6 spaces.

Now then, that's all the ripping and flogging I'm going to do. :wink:

I think the map looks like lots of fun and rather enjoyable. Can't wait to build it and play on it.

Kudos. :)
 
Re: nyys map thread *Divided V2* 1/7/10 *Index Page 1*

That's fallout from using the arch. I decided to go with both equidistant from the opening as opposed too the same distance from the SZs. Either way it gives a small advantage to one side or the other (closer to the door opening or the SZ), but I don't think it's game changing.
 
Re: nyys map thread *Divided V2* 1/7/10 *Index Page 1*

Moreover, given that nyys is putting a move glyph under the platform, total symmetry is impossible on this map, even setting aside big ruin/small ruin stuff. Because the platform is 2 hexes wide, the glyph will necessarily be closer to one edge of the platform than the other.
 
Re: nyys map thread *Divided V2* 1/7/10 *Index Page 1*

Very nice map as always nyys. :thumbsup:
 
Re: nyys map thread *Divided V2* 1/7/10 *Index Page 1*

Moreover, given that nyys is putting a move glyph under the platform, total symmetry is impossible on this map, even setting aside big ruin/small ruin stuff. Because the platform is 2 hexes wide, the glyph will necessarily be closer to one edge of the platform than the other.

As long as the glyph is the same amount of space from each start zone it doesn't matter, though.
 
Re: nyys map thread *Divided V2* 1/7/10 *Index Page 1*

Moreover, given that nyys is putting a move glyph under the platform, total symmetry is impossible on this map, even setting aside big ruin/small ruin stuff. Because the platform is 2 hexes wide, the glyph will necessarily be closer to one edge of the platform than the other.

As long as the glyph is the same amount of space from each start zone it doesn't matter, though.
Mostly, yeah. There are differences, though. A small or medium melee figure can engage the glyph holder without being exposed to attacks from the platform on one side, but not the other. Or, flipping that around, a figure attacking from the other side can still receive aura or other LoS benefits from friendly figures.

So there are differences. I agree it's not a huge issue, though.
 
Voids

Voids Download
Requires: BftU x2, TJ x1

Rules for Voids:
You can draw line of sight through a void, but when counting hexes for range you must count around the void.

voids01_SN0.jpg


This is the first of 4 or 5 maps that I have been working on over the past several months, and I'm finally at the point where I'm comfortable posting a couple (more to come soon).
 
Re: nyys map thread *Voids* 7/6/10 *Index Page 1*

I always wanted to see a competitive map with "voids" or empty holes in it. It's an interesting aspect that prevents all movement. It also blocks counting for range but doesn't stop LOS.

Edit: Noticed that this is the rules. :razz: I think these are official rules but maybe there a none. (responding to PM as soon as I talk to my dad again; he's been gone for a week and he'll see me tomorrow)
 
Re: nyys map thread *Voids* 7/6/10 *Index Page 1*

I really like the idea of using negative space in a map. I've really struggled to do it in a way that adds to the map as opposed to just being there for the sake of being there. Most of the time I've experimented with it, I've found that the voids have all the drawbacks of LoS blockers (i.e. creating choke points) without most of their advantages (i.e. blocking LoS).

My best effort was kitty corner. I think that map is basically fair and competitive, but it's a bit of a disaster aesthetically, and I think the tactics on it are not as interesting as they could/should be. I've been meaning to produce another version of that map.

I'm definitely interested in giving your map there a shot. How did you arrive at those void locations?
 
Re: nyys map thread *Voids* 7/6/10 *Index Page 1*

Yeah, the first go around with another map I made that had voids fell into the category of being there for the sake of it, not really adding much to game play.

I started this one knowing I wanted a void in the center and a void to 'cover' the start zone (ended up with two in the end).

Bottle-necks can definitely be an issue, and it seemed like more times than not the voids served more to block movement than to mess with ranged attacks, but in the games I did play on it, overall it worked pretty well.

I have not yet tried the most obvious choice to 'break' the map, that being rats. Lots of 'double defense' though (jungle + shadow), so if the foot sloggers get slowed down, they still have a shot to weather the firestorm.
 
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