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NM24 - Process

UranusPChicago

UranusPChicago

BoV Judge Emeritus
Site Supporter
(Moderator's Note): All results of our efforts can be seen here: The Halls of Justice

Since the work has already been done for me, I thought a simple cut and paste would suffice... :lol:

Let's get this thing rolling.

The 24-Hour Customs Thread
Where your customs are critiqued to perfection in only 24-Hours.

Our Mission:
- To create a workable directory of customs that are ready to be used by any group or player.
- To have a set of quality guaranteed, balanced customs with no errors and are as official as possible.

The Process:
The NM24 process focuses on speed and excellence in its critique. In this regard we do not worry about the exact point value of the custom being 100% accurate, but rather that it is playable and within 5-10 points which more, time-consuming play-testing will dictate. Our goal is to quickly and effectively critique and correct any errors on a chosen card. This process DOES NOT include adding new abilities or large scale changes to the Army Card. The process DOES, however, include smaller changes including, but not limited to: rewordings, graphic changes, changes in points, stats changes of 1 or 2, left box details, etc.

Unfortunately, if many creators start suggesting large scale changes because the card is not thematically accurate, too overpowered, too unbalanced, etc. then the nomination must be withdrawn because of too man flaws.

This is a reviewing process for previously critiqued works, not rough drafts.

The process for a specific card is over when three individual members give a "thumbs up to the card. A thumbs up may be given by these smileys: :up: , :thumbsup: OR the words "Thumbs up!", "Good to go," etc.

Once a card is NM24'd, a new card must be nominated. The process to nominate a card is described below in bold.

To the Creator:
Once your card has been nominated and you agree to the process, you must be able to make a small commitment to update the card regularly throughout the 1-4 day process. This is to ensure that the process moves along smoothly without huge delays.

After your process has been completed, please post a new card to undergo the process. If the creator of the new card DOES NOT post within 24 Hours saying it is OK for his/her card to go through the process, PLEASE post another card from a different creator. Try to use people's cards who are active at the time.

Before a creator posts to say it is OK, others are still permitted to give their opinions on the card and thumbs if appropriate, just know that the custom may still be withdrawn.

The Rules and Timeframe:
1. You cannot nominate your own card.
2. The creator has 1 day to OK his/her custom for review once it has been posted for nomination.
3. After the creator has OK'd it, the process must be completed in 5 days. If there is not 3 thumbs up in 5 days, another card is nominated by anyone and we move on.
4. If the process completes in under 5 days, immediately start the next process.

Closing Notes:
- Remember that even though you may love a card, the creator may not have the time to go through the process and its nomination may be withdrawn. You CAN nominate a card again, but try to wait for the creator to be more active.
- If your entry is withdrawn for any reason please don't get mad or blame someone. Sometimes things just happen. If you stay active for sure you will get another chance.
- When posting a card for review try to copy the format found HERE for consistency and accuracy.
- Good luck to all creators!!

The NM24 Stamps are HERE.

Alphabetical List of NM24 Customs:
Angel by Hi1hi1hi1hi1 - Passed 3 votes (UPC, Crispy, Whitestuff)
Azrael by Whitestuff - Passed 3 votes (GreyOwl, UPC, Hi1hi1hi1hi1)
Batman by GreyOwl - Passed 3 votes (Whitestuff, UPC, Sherman Davies)
Black Bolt by Hi1hi1hi1hi1 - Passed 3 votes (IAmBatman, GreyOwl, Whitestuff)
Cable by GreyOwl - Passed 3 votes (Whitestuff, Hi1hi1hi1hi1, UPC)
Clayface by Whitestuff - Passed 3 votes (GreyOwl, UPC, Hi1hi1hi1hi1)
Deadpool by GreyOwl - Passed 4 votes (Bloodraven, Hi1hi1hi1hi1, IAmBatman, UPC)
Easy Company Grunts by UranusPChicago - Passed 3 votes (Whitestuff, GreyOwl, Hi1hi1hi1hi1)
Eric Draven - The Crow by Bloodraven - Passed 3 votes (GreyOwl, Hi1hi1hi1hi1, IAmBatman)
Hand Ninjas by Hi1hi1hi1hi1 - Passed 5 votes (UPC, Sherman Davies, Markb97402, GreyOwl, Drewman-chu)
Hawyeye by Greyowl - Passed 3 votes (Hi1hi1hi1hi1, UPC, Jonathan)
Juggernaut by Hi1hi1hi1hi1 - Passed 4 votes (Greyowl, UPC, Whitestuff, Bloodraven)
Katana by Whitestuff - Passed 3 votes (Jonathan, UPC, Bloodraven)
Mockingbird by GreyOwl - Passed 3 votes (BloodRaven, Whitestuff, UPC)
Ragman by Whitestuff - Passed 4 votes (UPC,Jonathan,Hi1hi1hi1hi1,GreyOwl)
Scarecrow by Sherman Davies - Passed 5 votes (UPC, GreyOwl, Whitestuff, Hi1hi1hi1hi1, Markb97402)
Sgt. Rock by UranusPChicago - Passed 3 votes (Whitestuff, GreyOwl, BloodRaven)
Swamp Thing by GreyOwl - Passed 3 votes (Markb97402, Garada, Matt Helm)
Union Jack by Garada - Passed 5 votes (Hi1hi1hi1hi1, Matt Helm, Markb97402, Sherman Davies, GreyOwl)


Voting History
Boom-Boom by Jonathan - withdrawn
Beetle by AllSkulls - withdrawn

Currently in Process
Henchmen by Markb97402 (Whitestuff)
 
Our first nomination...

Hawkeye by GreyOwl

HAWKEYE.jpg


This was posted June 18, 2008 at 08:15 CST.
Process ends: Thursday, June 19, 2008 at 08:15 CST
 
Alright here we go...

Hawkeye
... is great! Range 9 with two attacks of four seems perfect to me. He's a better Syvarris and that is what he is in the comics. Adventurer and Rebellious fit well due to his shadier past.

I think Smoke Arrow should be Smoke Arrow 13 and I'm assuming you copied the Smoke Powder text, because it seems perfect.

One other thing, not that's it's bad how it is, but I think it'd be really cool if Hawkeye could shoot his smoke arrows to protect his friends that might not be adjacent. I realize the cards intent is slightly different, but it was just something that popped into my head when I saw it.

I think Hawkeye has earned my :up: without any change.
 
Hawkeye

I agree with hi1hi1hi1hi1 about the Smoke Arrow 13 ability name change.

The only other change I would make is OCD to the extreme, but I would center the Marvel graphic and the Hawkeye name at the top of the card.

With those 2 changes... :up:
 
I am really hoping that we get at least one more critique for this today. It would be nice to see this process actually work.
 
Hawkeye is updated with all the suggestions above. I'm not sure if that invalidates the already received "thumb-ups" or not.,,

HAWKEYE.jpg
 
I think this is a well-balanced piece that I just printed out for myself (as I finally got a Hawkeye mini).

I might like to see another version of Hawkeye, akin to Whitestuff's Judge Dredd, to show off all of Hawkeye's trick arrows, but this version is highly playable and probably a lot more fun for everyone involved due to his streamlined "beat-your-face" approach.

:thumbsup:
 
I thought about all his trick arrows, but I decided not to do that just because I did that with my Green Arrow. Essentially, they're the same character as far as abilities and equipment, but I was trying to differentiate my two versions of the characters from each other.

That being said, I would love to see someone else do a version of Hawkeye with all the trick arrows, especially if they came up with different ones than what I used for Green Arrow.
 
Are we discussing cost at all in this process? I know we're not doing the playtesting for cost, which is what slows everything to a halt. Nobody mentioned anything about Hawkeye's cost, so I'm not sure if that means it was good or if nobody looked at it. :)

Is someone going to make a logo or something that we can place on "NM24'd" cards?

Up next, I nominated hi's Juggernaut. I've already PM'd him.

Juggernaut.jpg
 
GreyOwl said:
Are we discussing cost at all in this process? I know we're not doing the playtesting for cost, which is what slows everything to a halt. Nobody mentioned anything about Hawkeye's cost, so I'm not sure if that means it was good or if nobody looked at it. :)

Is someone going to make a logo or something that we can place on "NM24'd" cards?
Click to expand...

I believe the Point Value should absolutely be discussed if someone thinks it is out of whack. However, like you said, there is only going to be limited if any playtesting involved with this process. I think more than anything, we are looking for "playable" point values. We will leave the fine tuning of the points to the TNTs.

I was hoping one of the more creative types could come up with some kind of logo for both the card and the A-Z listing.

I am just getting a red X for the Juggernaut card. Is anyone else having problems seeing it?

EDIT: It appears that Photobucket was hacked. Not sure if that is where this particular card was hosted.
 
For me to "thumbs up", the points have to seem balanced. I can't approve Hi's Juggernaut at this time because I feel like I need to test him out some to see if the points are legit.
 
The Juggernaut pic loads fine for me. It is on photobucket, but I can see it. Here's the URL in case that helps: http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc164/hi1hi1hi1hi1/Marvel%20Creations/Mutant%20Mayhem/Juggernaut.jpg

My comments on Juggernaut:

Unstoppable Force
I think it would work better if he had to move at least 3 spaces instead of 2 to use this, because it would better simulate him running head-on into someone. But I won't keep my approval over this.

Mystic Helmet
I think the ability is fine, but that it should be worded differently. How about:
"Control of Juggernaut can never change players, regardless of any special ability or glyph. Order Markers may never be removed from Juggernaut's card, regardless of any special ability or glyph."

Indestructible
I would change "...would destroy..." to "...could destroy...".

His stats seem about right for the character, though the combination of 7 Life, 7 Defense, and Indestructible may be a bit much for his current cost. As he is, I would guess he should be in the 380-390 range, off the top of my head.
 
I guess I won't be much help here at work. I still see a red X and even GreyOwl's link doesn't work for me. Sorry guys. I will be able to critique later this evening.

EDIT: Scratch that, suddenly GreyOwl's link is working for me. Critique to follow...
 
Juggernaut

Unstoppable Force - The verbage might also need to include what happens when walking on/over terrain specific tiles (water, snow, etc.). I also agree with GreyOwl that it should require 3 or more spaces. My logic is that it would be impossible to not walk in a straight line over 2 hexes.

Brute Force 2 - This might be a little too "rules lawyerish", but some might read the power to only be concerned with non-friendly adjacencies.

Mystic Helmet - I like GreyOwl's verbage better.

Indestructible - "Juggernaut never rolls for molten lava damage" seems tacked on. It should at the very least be another ability. What if another terrain type is introduced to Heroscape (quicksand, negative zone, whatever) that determines its damage via an attack die roll?

I am with Jonathan in that I will need a quick game or two this evening to better gauge his point value.
 
UranusPChicago said:
Juggernaut

Unstoppable Force - The verbage might also need to include what happens when walking on/over terrain specific tiles (water, snow, etc.). I also agree with GreyOwl that it should require 3 or more spaces. My logic is that it would be impossible to not walk in a straight line over 2 hexes.
Click to expand...
My logic is he's not supposed to be slowed down by those things, so as long as he can still move 3 spaces in a straight line he can use Unstoppable Force.

Yeah,I changed it to three. :oops:

UranusPChicago said:
Brute Force 2 - This might be a little too "rules lawyerish", but some might read the power to only be concerned with non-friendly adjacencies.
Click to expand...
Not sure what you are saying here. It says any figure so only if 1 figure is adjacent can he add 2 dice.

UranusPChicago said:
Mystic Helmet - I like GreyOwl's verbage better.
Click to expand...
Changed.

UranusPChicago said:
Indestructible - "Juggernaut never rolls for molten lava damage" seems tacked on. It should at the very least be another ability. What if another terrain type is introduced to Heroscape (quicksand, negative zone, whatever) that determines its damage via an attack die roll?
Click to expand...
Not sure what I should do here then? I could see dropping the line altogether possibly. I guess even if he is not destroyed by Lava, maybe he sinks in it any therefore is out of play for the rest of the game.

UranusPChicago said:
I am with Jonathan in that I will need a quick game or two this evening to better gauge his point value.
Click to expand...
Yeah, it does get tricky to figure out points when you start dealing with such powerful figures. I just hope that he is appropriate when compared with the HUlk and Silver Surfer.
 
hi1hi1hi1hi1 said:
UranusPChicago said:
Indestructible - "Juggernaut never rolls for molten lava damage" seems tacked on. It should at the very least be another ability. What if another terrain type is introduced to Heroscape (quicksand, negative zone, whatever) that determines its damage via an attack die roll?
Click to expand...
Not sure what I should do here then? I could see dropping the line altogether possibly. I guess even if he is not destroyed by Lava, maybe he sinks in it any therefore is out of play for the rest of the game.
Click to expand...

You could make it more generic to account for possible future terrains. Something like "Juggernaut may never be damaged or destroyed by any terrain he is on", or something to that effect. I don't see a problem with combining two different abilities like that under one, since they are related and due to the same power.
 
hi1hi1hi1hi1 said:
UranusPChicago said:
Brute Force 2 - This might be a little too "rules lawyerish", but some might read the power to only be concerned with non-friendly adjacencies.
Click to expand...
Not sure what you are saying here. It says any figure so only if 1 figure is adjacent can he add 2 dice.
Click to expand...

You know what you are saying, I know what you are saying, almost all people will know what you are saying. :lol: I am not even recommending that you change it, I am just saying that there are "those" out there who will bend, twist, omit, and add words to rules to better suit themselves.

After rethinking the Unstoppable Force power last night, I came up with a follow up question?
Does Juggernaut need to follow all terrain movement rules?

hi1hi1hi1hi1 said:
My logic is he's not supposed to be slowed down by those things, so as long as he can still move 3 spaces in a straight line he can use Unstoppable Force.
Click to expand...

Can he step out of 0 level water during his Unstoppable Force move?
Can he continue moving across water?
Does he ignore heavy snow?


I think we have hit the time limit with this one, but I still am enjoying the critique. I guess it is up to you, hi1hi1hi1hi1, if you want to move on to another nomination or wrap this one up.
 
UranusPChicago said:
I think we have hit the time limit with this one, but I still am enjoying the critique. I guess it is up to you, hi1hi1hi1hi1, if you want to move on to another nomination or wrap this one up.
Click to expand...
I guess as per the rules of this thread my time is up. I'd really like to finish this review though. I forgot to pm Jonathan with my nomination of his Boom-Boom, but I suppose it would be up to him whether to allow this review to continue a little longer or just end it. I pmed him now. When the response comes in I'll post the next card.

UranusPChicago said:
hi1hi1hi1hi1 said:
UranusPChicago said:
Brute Force 2 - This might be a little too "rules lawyerish", but some might read the power to only be concerned with non-friendly adjacencies.
Click to expand...
Not sure what you are saying here. It says any figure so only if 1 figure is adjacent can he add 2 dice.
Click to expand...

You know what you are saying, I know what you are saying, almost all people will know what you are saying. :lol: I am not even recommending that you change it, I am just saying that there are "those" out there who will bend, twist, omit, and add words to rules to better suit themselves.
Click to expand...
Oh, ok.

UranusPChicago said:
After rethinking the Unstoppable Force power last night, I came up with a follow up question?
Does Juggernaut need to follow all terrain movement rules?

hi1hi1hi1hi1 said:
My logic is he's not supposed to be slowed down by those things, so as long as he can still move 3 spaces in a straight line he can use Unstoppable Force.
Click to expand...

Can he step out of 0 level water during his Unstoppable Force move?
Can he continue moving across water?
Does he ignore heavy snow?
Click to expand...
With the current wording he has to obey terrain rules. I thought about it both ways, but I came to the conclusion that Juggernaut can be slowed, but not stopped. Therefore terrain could slow his project slightly. :)


Is the only thing left the points?
 
I would be willing to Theoryscape him anywhere from 360-390 myself.

I think all the verbage is good to go.
 
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