Invincible

[japes]

Re: Invincible - Waiting for testing

With that other guy clear from testing this guy is ready to move.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: Invincible - Waiting for testing

Anything in particular you want to see here?

 

[Lord Pyre]

Re: Invincible - Waiting for testing

Nope, he fits in with any army to some extent. Thanks!

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: Invincible - Waiting for testing

Sounds good! Thanks.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: Invincible - Waiting for testing

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM
NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: INVINCIBLE
VERSION TESTED

Spoiler Alert!

NAME = INVINCIBLE
IDENTITY = MARK GRAYSON

UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
SPECIES = VILTRUMITE
CLASS = CHAMPION
PERSONALITY = DETERMINED

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 7

MOVE = 7
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 7
DEFENSE = 5

POINTS = 360

DESPERATE ATTACK
After Invincible's attack action, if he has 4+ wounds or if an ally within 4 clear spaces has 2+ wounds, you may roll 2 damage dice against an adjacent figure.

BRUTAL INSPIRATION
If an enemy receives 1+ wounds from Invincible on your turn, allies within clear sight of Invincible receive +1 defense until the start of your next ordered activation.

SUPERHUMAN ENDURANCE
When defending, add 1 block. At the start of each round, heal 1 wound.

FACTION = GUARDIANS OF THE GLOBE
PUBLISHER = IMAGE
KEYWORDS = N/A
SYMBOLS = FLYING, SUPER STRENGTH

Team Test
Map: CITY PARK
Units: Invincible (360), Atom (JL) (100), Flash (Barry) (JL) (270), Hawkman (JL) (270) (1000)
vs Darkseid (520), Desaad (240), Parademons (x3) (240) (1000)
Unit Summary: This could’ve easily gone the other way had Darkseid hit Invincible for one more wound or rolled better on the d20. As it was, Invincible was strong with this crew and did well despite poor rolling for his desperate attack. The design is cool and feels very on theme.
Game Summary

Spoiler Alert!

Initiative Apokolips. Darkseid has Desaad move up, wounds him, then moves up. Flash pushes up Hawkman and takes out a tree. Invincible advances. Darkseid has Parademons move up and defeats one, then blasts Flash for 2 wounds from height. Flash engages Darkseid and pushes him down. Invincible takes height on him and punches him for 2 wounds then misses both damage die rolls. Darkseid has Desaad advance and he tortures Invincible for 2 wounds, then takes a wound himself. Darkseid avoids a swipe from Invincible and defeats Flash from height despite the brutal inspiration. Hawkman double attacks Darkseid for one wound. Invincible punches Desaad for two wounds from height and Atom pops but misses his d20 on Darkseid. Omega Effect hits each remaining JLer for a wound.
Invincible heals a wound. Initiative Apokolips. Desaad tortures Invincible for 2 wounds then takes his 5th wound from Darkseid, who punches Hawkman for three wounds. Hawkman fails to hit Darkseid. Atom uses a marker and fails to hit Desaad. Invincible punches Darkseid for two wounds and finishes Desaad with a desperate attack. Parademons do nothing. Darkseid defeats one and hits Invincible for two wounds from height. Invincible hits Darkseid for two more wounds but fails his desperate attack. Atom uses his last marker and defeats Darkseid. Darkseid had OM3. Invincible punches out a Parademon and takes out another with a desperate attack.
Invincible heals a wound. Initiative Justice League. Hawkman snipes a Parademon. The other Parademon advances. Invincible flies over and punches it out.

• Damage Done (Normal Attack): Inflicted [7] wounds on [Darkseid [6], Parademon [1]]
• DESPERATE ATTACK: Rolled [8] dice for [2] wounds on [Desaad [1], Parademon [1]]
• BRUTAL INSPIRATION: Affected [1] attacks
• SUPER HUMAN ENDURANCE: Block was [useful but not that strong]. Healed [2] wounds.

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Invincible with 2/7 Life, Atom with 1/2 Life and Hawkman with 1/5 Life win..

___________________________________________________________​

Team Test
Map: SACRED SHRINE
Units: Invincible (360), Superman (JL) (460), Raphael (180) (1000) vs Black Canary (JL) (220), Green Arrow (JL) (210), Green Lantern (Hal) (JL) (300), Flash (Barry) (JL) (270) (1000)
Unit Summary: Touch match up for the Justice League here. Superman only got two Justice Marker uses but Raph, Invincible, and Superman were all hard to put down. They targeted Invincible early due to his defensive boost to the others and his unblockables, but they spent all of their capital to get it done and Superman saved Raph from a bit hit, then Green Lantern and Green Arrow just couldn’t hit Superman in end game.
Game Summary

Spoiler Alert!

Initiative Trinity. Raph battle rushes. Invincible flies up. Flash pushes up Black Canary, then Green Arrow advances. Raph advances. Flash pushes Black Canary forward. Green Lantern advances. Superman flies forward. He removes a marker. Raph bounces to height on Flash but can’t hit him or go again. Invincible takes height on Flash and punches him for two wounds. Canary misses both of her cry attempts. Flash pushes down Raph and Canary goes Into the Fray, Green Lantern attacks normally, and Green Arrow uses a marker for two attacks (one from height as Raph bounces around) but none of them can hit the turtle.
Initiative Justice League after Flash burns a marker to steal it. Flash pushes Invincible to height disadvantage. Black Canary goes Into the Fray and hits him for one wound. Flash fails to hit him from height. Green Arrow uses a marker and shoots him four times for three additional wounds. Superman flies over and smacks Canary for two wounds. She misses both cries. He uses his last Justice Marker and Raph takes out Canary on his second attack. She misses her screams on the way out. Invincible can’t hit Green Lantern with an attack but his desperate attack hits two skulls and takes out Flash. Green Lantern hits Invincible for a fifth wound. Green Arrow uses his third Justice Marker and he fails to hit Invincible from height or attack again. Superman punches Green Lantern for a wound. Green Lantern finishes Invincible, who had Order Marker 3.
Initiative Trinity. Superman punches Green Lantern for a wound. Green Lantern uses his Air Raid, adding 2 hits, and hits Raph for 3 wounds that Superman rescues him from, and Superman for 2 more wounds. Superman can’t defeat the indomitable Green Lantern. Green Lantern punches Superman for a fourth wound. Raph can’t hit Green Lantern or attack again. Green Arrow can’t hit Superman or attack again.
Initiative Trinity. Superman punches out Green Lantern and steals OM1 and OM2. He pursues Green Arrow and hits him twice for a total of 3 wounds from height disadvantage. Green Arrow gets to height advantage from range and attacks Superman from height three times but can’t hit.
Initiative Trinity. Superman flies to height and punches out Green Arrow.

• Damage Done (Normal Attack): Inflicted [2] wounds on [Flash [2]]
• DESPERATE ATTACK: Rolled [2] dice for [2] wounds on [Flash [2]]
• BRUTAL INSPIRATION: Affected [4] attacks
• SUPER HUMAN ENDURANCE: Block was [useful, but not overly powerful]. Healed [0] wounds.

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Superman with 3/7 Life and Raphael with Full Life win.

___________________________________________________________​

UNIT SUMMARY: First game was a coin-flip. Second game was a much bigger victory. Small sample size, but he’s definitely solid. I think his results might even out with more testing, but we’ll see. He may be a tad on the strong side for 360.

 

[Lord Pyre]

Re: Invincible - Waiting for testing

Sweet, glad he was fun. Count that as a victory. We can turn a few minor dials if he’s still showing slightly strong, or we can up his point and fit Eve in whatever gap is leftover.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: Invincible - Waiting for testing

Oh for sure. His base life or attack could go down 1 for instance. Probably going to go against Eric running him Wednesday if our schedules work out so we can see how he feels after that.

 

[Ericth74]

Re: Invincible - Waiting for testing

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Invincible

Version tested:

Spoiler Alert!

NAME = INVINCIBLE
IDENTITY = MARK GRAYSON

UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
SPECIES = VILTRUMITE
CLASS = CHAMPION
PERSONALITY = DETERMINED

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 7

MOVE = 7
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 7
DEFENSE = 5

POINTS = 360

DESPERATE ATTACK
After Invincible's attack action, if he has 4+ wounds or if an ally within 4 clear spaces has 2+ wounds, you may roll 2 damage dice against an adjacent figure.

BRUTAL INSPIRATION
If an enemy receives 1+ wounds from Invincible on your turn, allies within clear sight of Invincible receive +1 defense until the start of your next ordered activation.

SUPERHUMAN ENDURANCE
When defending, add 1 block. At the start of each round, heal 1 wound.

FACTION = GUARDIANS OF THE GLOBE
PUBLISHER = IMAGE
KEYWORDS = N/A
SYMBOLS = FLYING, SUPER STRENGTH

Army Test
Map: Cell Games Arena
Units: 800 pts Omni-Man 440, Invincible 360 VS 800 pts – Wrecking Crew

Spoiler Alert!

Damage Dealt: R2 - Bulldozer 3 wounds
R4 – Piledriver 5 wounds
R4 – Piledriver 1 wound – dead


R1 – Movement. Bulldozer hits Invincible for 2 wounds. Wrecker attacks Invincible, its blocked.
R2 -Invincible heals a wound. Omni-Man does his SA on Thunderball doing 5 wounds on 3 wounds. Wrecker attacks Invincible who blocks it. Invincible hits Bulldozer for 3 wounds. Wrecker attacks Omni, its blocked. Thunderball attacks Invincible its blocked. Bulldozer takes a Swipe wound from Invincible. Bulldozer hits Omni for 1 wound. Omni uses hit SA on Bulldozer taking him out and OM3.
R3 – Omni and Invincible heal a wound. Omni takes out a Battlement and attacks Wrecker with his SA doing 3 wounds. Wrecker attack Omni its blocked. Invincible attacks Wrecker its blocked. Wrecker hits Invincible for 1 wound. Thunderball attacks down on Invincible doing 2 wounds. Omni attacks Wrecker with his SA doing 1 wound.
R4 – Invicible heals a wound. Thunderball attacks down on Invincible doing a wound. Omni uses his SA taking out Wrecker and a Battlement. Piledriver attacks Invincible its blocked. Invincible attacks Piledriver doing 5 wounds. Piledriver and Wrecker attacks Invincible both are blocked. Invincible attacks and kills Piledriver(1 wound).
R5 - Invincible heals 1 wound. Thunderball attacks Omni its blocked. Omni attacks and kills Thunderball.

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Full life Omni-Man, Invincible 3 wounds/4 life left

___________________________________________________________​

Army Test
Map: Conflict Chernobyl
Units: 800 pts Iron Man 270, Tigra 170, Invincible 360 VS 800 pts – Outsiders - Batman, Geo Force, Katana, Black Lightning

Spoiler Alert!

Damage Dealt: R2 – Geo-Force 4 wounds
R3 – Black Lightning 1 wound

R1 – Movement. Batman attacks Tigra 3 times, she blocks them all. Iron Man attacks Katana twice doing 3 wounds. Geo drops a tile and does a wound to Invincible. Katana attacks Invincible doing 1 wound. Invincible targets Geo but Katana puts a wound Invincible and ends his turn.
R2 – Invincible heals a wound. Iron Man attacks and kills Katana. Iron Man attacks Geo doing a wound. Invincible attacks down on Geo doing 4 wounds and taking him out. Iron Man attacks Batman doing 3 wounds and does 1 more on the second attack, taking him out. Tigra attacks Black Lightning doing 2 wounds.
R3 – Invincible heals a wound. Tigra puts a swipe wound on Black Lightning. Black Lightning doing 3 wounds. Invincible attacks Black Lightning doing 1 wound taking him out and ending the game.

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Iron Man 3 wounds/1 life left, Tigra full 5 life left, Invincible 3 life left

GENERAL THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT: Played both games against IAmBatman. Game 1 was a landslide. Wrecking Crew rolled well enough on offense but the Viltrumite's defense stood strong and Invincible was able to heal a few of his wounds. Both he and Omni-Man hit hard and the Wrecking Crew whiffed quite a few times, which was responsible few some of the lopsided win. They did roll average for the Wrecking Crew power. In game 2 it was a little closer and in round 2 an Initiative win for the Outsiders would have probably swung the game in their favor. Iron Man rolled well on offense and did most of the wounds for his team. Invincible's powers all work and I like the new Desperate Attack although he had the wounds on him, he never was able to pull the 2 damage dice off at the end as he killed the opponent before it happened. In game 1 he never had enough wounds for it to trigger. Both Bats and I felt like Invincible is a 360 point figure that plays and feels more like a 400 pointer. We both felt like a drop in defense by 1 could fix that and also have Desperate attack kick in more often. If the LD wanted the defense to stay, then a drop in attack by 1 could also balance him out while still being a strong attacker. Invincible went 2-0, one game was close but still a decent sized win and one was a really big win against a strong 800 point team. I think one of those small changes works to keep him 360 and moves him forward to Final Editing.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: Invincible - Waiting for testing

Yeah, in agreement with Eric's analysis here. I know Omni has 1 more life, move, and attack, but I don't think that quite covers the 80 point gap between them, especially with Invincible having a better ability set, IMO. One thing for sure is that at 800 points facing the two of them together is tough sledding, given how tanky they are. I like the idea of Mark being slightly less tanky and unfun to play against and in desperate mode more often, so dropping the defense by 1 appeals to me.

 

[Lord Pyre]

Re: Invincible - Waiting for testing

Cool, I’m fine with that! I can update in a few days and call the vote. Theoretically we’ll have a few more games with him when we work on Eve anyway so we can feel it out.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: Invincible - Waiting for testing

Sounds good

 

[Ericth74]

Re: Invincible - Waiting for testing

Cool, I’m fine with that! I can update in a few days and call the vote. Theoretically we’ll have a few more games with him when we work on Eve anyway so we can feel it out.

That's true, I like the changes

 

[Lord Pyre]

Re: Invincible - Waiting for testing

I propose we move to editing

 

[Ericth74]

Re: Invincible - vote for editing

yea

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: Invincible - vote for editing

yea

 

[MrNobody]

Re: Invincible - vote for editing

Yea

This is one were I'm on the skeptical end on balance, but comfortable enough to move forward with the understanding that he'll get tested with Eve!

 

[Lord Pyre]

Re: Invincible - vote for editing

Yea

This is one were I'm on the skeptical end on balance, but comfortable enough to move forward with the understanding that he'll get tested with Eve!

What's the skepticism? We did drop his defense after testing. But yes, will have more games played.

 

[MrNobody]

Re: Invincible - vote for editing

Yea

This is one were I'm on the skeptical end on balance, but comfortable enough to move forward with the understanding that he'll get tested with Eve!

What's the skepticism? We did drop his defense after testing. But yes, will have more games played.

I mean...he went 4-0 in public testing, received a (substantial but not massive) nerf, and then went straight to editing. I don't want to slow him down (especially since I'm not able to test him right now), but just seems like one to be cautious on.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: Invincible - vote for editing

If not for the further testing with Atom-Eve caveat, I'd be against his moving forward. I'm also cool with pumping the brakes and trying to get one more set before advancing here, though.

 

[Lord Pyre]

Re: Invincible - vote for editing

I must've misread the results last week, honestly thought the results were closer. I don't mind if you want more tests, I ain't in a rush.

 

[IAmBatman]

Re: Invincible - vote for editing

I'd say lets hold off and try to get one more set, then. Abundance of caution and all.

 

[Lord Pyre]

Re: Invincible - vote for editing

Cool, then I don't have to deal with linking the playtests yet like I forgot to do.

 

[Karat]

Re: Invincible - Testing

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT Invincible

Army Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Probably
- What should be the unit's point value? 360-380?
- Give a brief overview. He felt about right but luck strongly favored his side with Plastic Man hitting Rubbery Rebound in a row and generally making it difficult for the Avengers to do anything but try and deal with him. Quicksilver giving himself the final 2 wounds to save Iron Man didn't help either.
Map: Island Plane Crash
Units: Invincible, Superman (JL), Plastic Man (JL) (1,000) vs Cap, Winter Soldier (Soldier), Iron Man (Avengers), Quicksilver (Avengers) (1,000)

Spoiler Alert!

Superman made Invincible part of the Justice League and starts with full markers. Plastic Man is starting on his card. Winter Soldier is teamed up with Cap who makes him an Avenger in return.
R1
Avengers have initiative. In T1 Cap and Winter move out; Superman flies up. In T2 Iron Man flies up firing 2 blasts at Supes the first is blocked and the second does one wound and Quicksilver zooms up; Invincible flies up and Plastic appears next to the tree engaged with Iron Man and Cap. In T3 Ironman has Bucky move move to height but Plastic rebounds him down to even height and Winter punches Plastic for 3 but does no damage and takes a wound for his efforts and Cap's attack on Plastic is blocked. In T3 Superman engages Quicksilver punching him for a wound and Winter has Superman's Six but misses the shot and then Superman removes a marker to have Invincible engage Ironman and Winter and hits Iron Man for a wound Brutally Inspiring his team and Plastic misses Bucky.
R2
Justice League has initiative. In T1 Supes punches Quicksilver for a wound and removes a marker having Invincible punch Iron Man so hard Quicksilver had to zoom in to save him taking his final 2 wounds and negating Brutal Inspiration and Plastic Man hits Cap for 2 wounds but Winter has his Six giving him a wound; Cap hits Plastic for 1 but only succeeds in taking a wound himself and Winter would hit Plastic for a 3 wounds but only succeeds in taking 12 himself. In T2 Invincible hits Iron Man for a wound Brutally Inspiring his team; Iron Man misses Invincible with both attacks and Winter punches Invincible for a wound. In T3 Invincible misses Iron Man; Iron Man hits Invincible for a wound over 2 attacks. Invincible heals.
R3
Avengers have initiative. In T1 Cap hits Plastic Man for 3 wounds and Winter finishes him off; Superman engages Iron Man from height and drops him like a rock and the removes his last marker to have Invincible engage Cap from height but his attack is blocked. In T2 OM on Iron Man; Invincible drops Cap Brutally Inspiring his team but Winter has his 6 giving him a wound. In T3 OM on Cap; Invincible takes height and finishes off Winter. Invincible heals.
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Justice League wins with Superman bearing 1/7 wounds and no Justice Markers left and Invincible bearing 1/7 wounds.

_____________________________________________________________

Army Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Yes
- What should be the unit's point value? 370-380
- Give a brief overview. This was a very brutal match where Omni-Man did a lot of damage early and then Invincible cleaned house. Mantis was Icing on the cake with not having to worry about OM placement and having her safe from the action for clean up. A few more good Razor Wing Slashes or good attacks (or if I could roll a blank with X-23) and the X-Force team would have had a bit more of a chance of taking the win.
Map: Conflict Chernobyl
Units: Invincible, Omni-Man, Mantis (1,000) vs Cyclops (Utopian), Wolverine, X-23, Archangel (1,000)

Spoiler Alert!

R1
Team Invincible has initiative. In T1 Mantis gives the OM to Omni who flies up; Wolverine advances and has X-23 Maneuver up. In T2 Mantis gives the OM to Omni who engages Cyclops hitting him for a wound and Archangel flies over Slashing him for a wound with his wings; Wolverine and has X-23 maneuver into engagement with Omni but she can't wound him. In T3 Mantis gives the OM to Omni who hits Cyclops for a wound and Archangel flies around but doesn't Wound Omni; Cyclops hits Omni for a wound and then has Archangel fly over Omni giving him a wound and X-23 steps in but is blocked and Wolverine has no target. Omni heals.
R2
Cyclops reveals the X adding 8 to Initiative. X-Force has Initiative. In T1 Cyclops hits Omni for 3 wounds and activates Archangel who flies over Omni but misses and X-23 can't wound Omni and Wolverine doesn't have a target; Mantis gives the OM to Invincible who flies up punching Wolverine for 3 wounds Brutally Inspiring his team. In T2 Cyclops misses Omni and activates Archangel who flies over Omni but can't wound as X-23 steps in but still can't wound Omni and Wolverine goes fully Berserk giving Invincible 4 wounds over 3 attacks and then heals; Mantis gives the OM to Invincible who one hit KOs Wolverine (5/7 skulls vs whiff) Brutally Inspiring his team. In T3 Cyclops misses Omni and Archangel flies over Omni giving him a wound and X-23 finishes him off (4/4 skulls vs 1+1/5 shields); Mantis gives Invincible the OM and he flies up taking height on Archangel who flies over Invincible but can't wound him and soars away. Invincible heals.
R3
Cyclops reveals the X to add 8 to Initiative. X-Force has Initiative. In T1 Cyclops advances and uses his Optic Destruction on Invincible giving him a wound and both trees withstand the blast and Cyclops activates Archangel who flies up and X-23 steps in to Complete the Mission engaging Invincible slashing him for a wound; Mantis gives the OM to Invincible who attacks down on X-23 giving her 4 wounds and Brutally Inspiring his team and then finishes her off with a 2 skull Desperate Attack. In T2 Cyclops takes height but can't hit Invincible so he sends Archangel to fly over him and a tree Slashing Invincible for a wound; Mantis gives the OM to Invincible who flies over engaging Archangel and Cyclops but Cyclops blocks his attack prompting Archangel to fly around him but Archangel can't Slash Invincible who then hits Cyclops with a Desperate Attack for a wound. In T3 Cyclops misses Invincible and Archangel flies over him but still can't Slash him; Mantis gives the OM to Invincible who finishes off Cyclops and misses Archangel with a Desperate Attack. Invincible heals.
R4
Team Invincible has initiative. In T1 Invincible finishes off Archangel for the win.
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Team Invincible won with Invincible bearing 5/7 wounds and Mantis unwounded.

THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: All his powers are useful and he seems balanced on his own and is very draftable. seems like 370-380 might ultimately work better based on these performances.

GENERAL THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT: On his own, Mark is probably worth 360 but he has enough solid pairings that mesh with him and screw with your enemy that he feels like he's worth 20-40 points more in those builds because he is a durable heavy hitter with a solid Defensive boost and auto-wound option.

If you want to reign him in just a hair, maybe make Desperate Attack a single damage die or lower his life by 1.

 

[Lord Pyre]

Re: Invincible - Testing

I don't mind dropping his life by 1. I like him throwing the 2 unblockables personally. Of course dropping his life by 1 wouldn't change the outcomes of these games though.

Anyone else have thoughts?

 

[Ericth74]

Re: Invincible - Testing

I could see an attack drop to 6