How would you help the Ninjas?

[lefton4ya]

I added a poll to this but wanted to get some input too, so post your pick (or picks) and explain why. I could expand this question to pretty much any type of figures and your answer should mirror your general feeling on the subject of what is balanced and what is official, but I wanted to use something concrete.

My question is "How would you help out the Ninjas (excluding Isamu) in pre-made armies for tournaments and/or home games?"

• They don't need helping - the designers knew what they were doing, designed the ninjas perfectly balanced for pre-made competition, could predict all the future units they would ever make and how it would affect Ninjas, could predict the competitive metagame forever and compensated in their design, and never planned on making any more ninjas.
  Spoiler Alert!

  Extremely loaded question so the answer should be no
• I hold the official cards in reverence so much I would never would play modified cards or new customs and would rather not play ninjas competitively at all or would play them knowing they are not the best or believe they are better than previously rated and would play them to prove it.
• Create/request tournaments with scenarios designed to help ninjas such as melee only, uniques only, heroes only, heat of the battle, historical units only, only allow units with only one attack per activation and if you don't move a figure on your turn you get a wound and there is triple disengagement attacks, etc.
• Play Modified cards
  1. Play according to Legacy (points may change later to make all units rated equally) or other modified point costs:
     10 Otonashi
     15 Isamu
     40 Shiori
     70 Kumiko
     80 Moriko
     95 Ninjas of the Northern Wind (3)
  2. Modify Ninjas Of The Northern Wind to bond with Ninja Heroes (remember they are a unique squad)
     
  3. Modifications that make each unit better without bonding or synergy added to units, such as Competitive Unit Congress Changes, including below and any future changes
     
     
  4. Other modifications that make each unit better by adding some type of synergy to units
• Play new custom cards (Whether C3G, C3V, CHCG24, SoV, or just individually made cards)
  1. Play new custom that has bonding, such as C3G Hand Ninjas:
     
     
  2. Play new custom that has other synergistic help to Ninjas, such as my custom:
     

Remember, you can pick more than one option or different options for different situations (i.e. Gencon, Local tournaments, home games with hardcore players, home games with casual players).

 

[Devil's Advocate]

The Ninjas of the North Wind need for their Disappearing Ninja Ability to work against Special Attacks. Currently, a 110 Point ,3 person, unique, melee squad with only 3 defense dice can't afford for their best defensive power to be bypassed so easily.

 

[Trav11111]

I would make pirates that are play tested to be an even match for the ninjas.

 

[obfuscatedhippo]

The Ninjas of the North Wind need for their Disappearing Ninja Ability to work against Special Attacks. Currently, a 110 Point ,3 person, unique, melee squad with only 3 defense dice can't afford for their best defensive power to be bypassed so easily.

Totally agree here! So yes to some card modifications.

Bonding would be an interesting addition though, but I think I would rather see their cost drop to 80-90 points. If i did that, I would re-cost all the Ninja.

10 Otonashi
20 Isamu
40 Shiori
50 Kumiko
70 Moriko (without the CUC changes)

Peace,
*Kai

 

[cavebehr]

they all need a single ninja master who can bond with either a hero or squad ninja

 

[killercactus]

The Hand Ninja are a pretty good fix, but I'd rather see something more creative for the Ninjas. Maybe a Ninja/Obajan hero with a power like this:

The Art of Invisibility
All Ninja you control may use [Ninja Obajan Hero's] "Vanish 12" special power. Whenever a Ninja you control rolls the 20-sided die for Vanish 12, all other Ninja you control may move up to 4 spaces. Ninjas that move with The Art of Invisibility may not end this move adjacent to any figures.

Obviously, he would have Vanish 12 and Phantom Walk.

 

[flameslayer93]

Recognize that some ninjas are perfectly priced for the job they do and are a pretty good toolbox for their cost(Moriko, Otonashi, Shiori are the best examples of this), regardless of tourney results and the like(they may be important, but that doesn't mean that is the element they should be played in).

I'm not saying the ninjas are great units, I'm merely recognizing that they are fine units. Although nobody will ever take Otonashi over Isamu, it's woth taking a 60 point Shiori or an 110 point Moriko since they are pretty cheap units who work wonders in the endgame(or after a huge team of Vipers have walloped the opponent in Moriko's case). They are not the strongest pieces, but they have yet to have truly disproved me.

Highlights before the alterations
Moriko
Double Attack with 3 attack dice. Will also bypass rats. Good attack of 4 mixed with high speed&phantom walk pretty much dictates she should have no trouble getting height and cutting a hero down to size. 4 life and 4 defense means she can do it again.

Shiori
Low cost and place to put that X marker. Best left for the endgame when there are fewer baddies about. Comes armed with a ranged special attack. Has a temporary 4 attack/4 defense.

Otonashi
She's 10 points and can be used to get the drop on somebody. She gets a restricted bonus to attack, but fortunately there are more than only a few Wild figures(including Marro squads, Tarns, Orc Squads).

The ninjas are all fine, change them if you will, but overall there is no excuse for not looking at their benefits as well as their downfalls.

Regardless, Cheers.

 

[arp12]

B. I think you worded your options in a biased way, but basically I prefer to stick to what's on the card.

 

[wriggz]

I would add a Hero with an invisablity aura that gives all the ninjas in 4 spaces stealth dodge.

 

[kolakoski]

Let them play within the Legacy system .

Within Official? Do for all of them what the CUC did for the Tagawa Samurai Archers. Give them Evasive 1. +1 defense against all range.

 

[MrWookiee]

D. 2 or 3. I like the idea of the ninjas bonding, or add decreased point values. I don't like the idea of increasing Isamu's point cost, however.

 

[Schulzy]

Instead of playing modified cards, how about a ninja hero that says "As long as all army cards in your army are Ninjas, all ninja cards cost 10 fewer points to have in your army." Or something to that effect. I like that idea, actually. Might play around with it.

 

[jschild]

Would making them common make them too overpowered at the same or maybe 120 cost?

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Even as commons the NONW would be overpriced since special attacks kill them so quickly. For 110 Points (especially melee), a squad had better have great Defense. (Minions and Sentinels for example)

 

[lefton4ya]

I would add a Hero with an invisablity aura that gives all the ninjas in 4 spaces stealth dodge.

That is what i tried to do with my custom

The Hand Ninja are a pretty good fix, but I'd rather see something more creative for the Ninjas. Maybe a Ninja/Obajan hero with a power like this:

The Art of Invisibility
All Ninja you control may use [Ninja Obajan Hero's] "Vanish 12" special power. Whenever a Ninja you control rolls the 20-sided die for Vanish 12, all other Ninja you control may move up to 4 spaces. Ninjas that move with The Art of Invisibility may not end this move adjacent to any figures.

Obviously, he would have Vanish 12 and Phantom Walk.

I was almost had my custom's Vanishing Cover so that you can move all ninjas with 4 sight spaces of the hero when any ninja with 4 sight spaces is attacked; your idea just goes one step further to have all ninjas move when any ninja is attacked. I would just change the wording to be "...the defending figure takes no damage and you may immediately move Kunoici Assassin and all Ninjas [within 4 sight spaces] up to 4 spaces. Regardless, my opinion is all ninja need extra defense such as a disappearing/vanishing power (vanishing is better as it works on special attacks) and some kind of bonding - whether a movement bonding of sorts like cover fire or full bonding either with a modded NotNW or new squad. I suppose you could just recost like the legacy system, but most of the time all the ninjas would be wasted order markers even at a cheap cost, so I would rather they have extra powers.

Thanks for everyone's input though. Poll up now.

 

[Killometer]

I went with E1 and E2-I plan on adding SoV and C3V units into my play rotation, and allowing them at any tournaments I organize.

 

[nate the dawg]

I voted A, mostly because I love the classic units, and wouldn't dream of changing what exists, but I also could have gone with the E's, or maybe even D2. The NotNW aren't a bad unit; they're just trickier to use than others at the same or similar cost. I would, however, love to see something come out of C3V or SoV that bumped them a bit. Changing the official army card of NotNW to include bonding still feels wrong to me, but it's the least offensive of the 'D' choices to an anal-retentive, OCD nerd like me.