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How will we know Wave 9 sales performance?

Ace Histoli

Ace Histoli

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Sorry if my inadequate search-fu failed to locate a previous discussion. Also, if this really belongs in "Sales and Sightings", please feel free to move it.




How will we know if Wave 9 is selling well? If Hasbro/WOTC is making enough money to continue new releases? Or re-releases? …or, gods forbid, if it’s not making sufficient profit and they’re questioning future products?

I’ve just discovered Heroscape, and I’m absolutely loving everything about it. I’ve spent what can only be characterized as an embarrassing sum of money already (even Ebay-ing old games & possessions to acquire more plasticrack) and, of course, I’m still scratching the surface. It’s been a ton of fun so far, and I’m only just beginning. Here’s the deal, though: as psyched as I am about the present, I’m really excited about being able to play with my son (and hypothetical additional children) in a few years. I’ve lurked on the boards enough to read plenty of fiscal crystal ball reading, so I’m a little concerned. If Heroscape goes belly-up in three years, there won’t be as much of a scene (let alone tournaments, etc) by the time my son is old enough to really take part. Therefore, I’m highly interested in the financial health of the Heroscape brand.

I do understand that none of this should affect my behavior as an individual ‘scaper: mine is but to purchase (don’t worry, I did my part with Wave 9 and the Wave 1 reprint), play, enjoy, and evangelize*. And, hey, if this train does come to a stop, hopefully I’ll have amassed a decent enough collection to have fun with my kid(s) for years and years. Gotta admit that I’m curious, though. You guys who have been around for a while might have a better perspective. Is there a WOTC kabuki that will indicate if sales meet expectations? Or maybe a direct sales report from the admins in 6 months?



* Anybody else admit to watching “Jon and Kate plus 8”? Apparently the show’s power of product placement is just ridiculous. Last week’s episode with “Crooked Houses” led to the crookedhouse website registering 150k hits within 90 seconds of the mention on the show… so I’m having fantasies of somehow getting the Gosselin kids to play Heroscape. All it will take is one cut-away shot of the kids gathered around a map, and all of our worries will be over!
 
Even with WotC employees like Truth and The Guru on this site, I would not expect to get any official word on the sales performance of Heroscape around here. As you no doubt know, companies are very protective of figures like that. However, we as a community have a pretty good sense of whether things are going well or not. We knew generally what was going on when Toys R Us and Target dropped the game, and we knew what happened when Wal-Mart tried to strong-arm WotC into giving them a better discount. (The fact that they failed to do so and continue to carry 'Scape is in itself a pretty good sign of the game's viability.) We also observed on our own the Marvelscape and Nakita Gluts, and the changes that were made in the packaging of the game in response to those events.

The fact is, Heroscape will probably never be a Magic: The Gathering or a Pokemon, or even a Heroclix. Instead, I see it as a steady, reliable seller with a considerable and dedicated fanbase, not to mention the silent majority out there who may be supporting it just for the terrain. I have never agreed with the various doom 'n' gloomers and naysayers who pop up from time to time declaring The End of Heroscape. In fact, I'm going to go out on a (strong) limb here and say that Wave 9 will not be the final wave of the game.

Say it with me now: Heroscape Lives!
 
When Wave 9 was getting ready to be produced, we were told it would come out no matter how Wal-Mart reacted.
Since they bough up the majority of the production, I believe it is safe to say we'll see a Wave 10, no matter how good or bad Wal-Mart sells.
It is also worth mentioning that an English site like Gameslore is once again able to acquire Heroscape. They had trouble getting the last few expansions, but have now stocked up on both Master Sets and wave 9. The old distribution of the larger expansions also seems to have changed from containing 2 x miniatures + 1 x terrain, to 1 x miniatures + 2 x terrain, at least according to my FLGS in Copenhagen.
All good signs for the longevity of Heroscape.

But keep checking up on this site and I'm sure we'll hear something (positive) within in a couple of months.
 
I'm glad to hear all this positive feedback to this thread. I've been kind of worried about the lack of even preliminary information about wave 10.

I would be so sad to see this game fail. I have to disagree with Sherman Davies, I hope that this game will be a household name in the long run. Maybe it hasn't generated the pashion of Pokemon, but it is such a solid GAME. I could never get my friends to play Magic, or Pokemon, or Heroclix. Those games have their own pre-packaged audience (the D&D crowd), this game has to create its own.

But then again, look around this sight. The audience seems pretty big and growing.

Welcome to the game and welcome to the boards, DBC.
 
If WotC is a subsiderary of Hasbro, a publicly traded company, common stock shareholder should be able to access that data. I bet that WotC is just run seperately but with Hasbro taking its profit and losses in which case they couldn't actually see.

If anybody with a porfolio wants to put down 100 dollars on stock and find out that would be cool.
 
In general, heroscape has always sold well. There has been a few expansions that had trouble selling like the Nakita Pack and Warriors and Soulborgs packs. But all in all, heroscape has been a dependable seller online, at walmart, and local gaming stores. You can ussually tell what sells by whats in stock on internet gaming websites.

I feel that heroscape kind of sells with just enough production like the Nintendo Wii. Release a wave or two at a time and build up anticipation for the next release. It keeps peoples' interests.
 
Onacara said:
Hahnarama said:
Sherman Davies said:
Even with WotC employees like Truth and The Guru on this site....
Click to expand...

Dudes we spend all weekend together gaming and you don't tell me that you got hired on my WotC?!
Click to expand...

:rofl:



They are not WotC employees. Truth is an independent contractor if I recall correctly. Guru used to work for Hasbro answering questions for folks about Heroscape on their gamers hotline/email.
Click to expand...

Whoops, thanks for the clarification, Onacara.
 
I have to say that, given all the means of advertising these days, even with its costs in some venues, it seems that Heroscape gets far less publicity in general than it should. It should be seen by marketing as a SUPER CROSSOVER DESIGN! After all, whatever your topic of interest, HS has got it covered to some degree. Someone interested in only one aspect could collect the figures for that topic and just play it to death (Asian military/martial arts, Horror, D&D, Hi Tech Agents and Robots, Superheroes, etc.) in one topic/genre alone, supplementing Classic figures with Customs (I have a Mongol army and Dwarf, Orc, Ancient Gladiator and Elite Roman armies for example).

Ah, for the days when I actually saw Heroscape commercials on the SciFi/SyFy Channel! Where's the love?
 
chas said:
I have to say that, given all the means of advertising these days, even with its costs in some venues, it seems that Heroscape gets far less publicity in general than it should. It should be seen by marketing as a SUPER CROSSOVER DESIGN! After all, whatever your topic of interest, HS has got it covered to some degree. Someone interested in only one aspect could collect the figures for that topic and just play it to death (Asian military/martial arts, Horror, D&D, Hi Tech Agents and Robots, Superheroes, etc.) in one topic/genre alone, supplementing Classic figures with Customs (I have a Mongol army and Dwarf, Orc, Ancient Gladiator and Elite Roman armies for example).

Ah, for the days when I actually saw Heroscape commercials on the SciFi/SyFy Channel! Where's the love?
Click to expand...

Or even cartoon network.
 
Hahnarama said:
skyknight said:
Hahnarama said:
Sherman Davies said:
Even with WotC employees like Truth and The Guru on this site....
Click to expand...

Dudes we spend all weekend together gaming and you don't tell me that you got hired on my WotC?!
Click to expand...
That musta been a good time I imagine;)
Click to expand...

Ya wish you could have been there but I hear you were off hunting ghosts. and watching Star Wars porn. :p
Click to expand...

I have not seen anything as beautiful as Star Wars porn in a long time...oh wait, there was one thing just as beautiful. And that is the Truth:lol:
 
As of today, Coolstuffinc has sold out of Brawlers/Braves and only has 3 Dwarves/Repulsors in stock. The other site-supporter retailers seem to have everything still – maybe this just reflects Coolstuffinc’s aggressive “high volume, move the product” kinda philosophy. They have the lowest prices per pack, so maybe they’re the first to sell out.
Whatever. Which retailer has sold out of which pack isn’t really the point here. I just think it speaks highly of Wave 9’s performance that we’re seeing units sell out by 2 months after release. Unless this is just a momentary restocking hiccup and I should just be ignoring it.

Oh, and maybe Wave 1 is starting to dry up, too – they’re out of Romans and have <20 of Gruts and Snipers/Vipers.

All of which got me thinking about the HOT! SEXY! NEWS! about maybe Wave 10 arriving 10/23. All of these units have been done for a good long while, right? The playtesters were doing Steamroller years ago, etc. Maybe Hasbro/WOTC is sitting on a bigger backlog than we realize, what with the company shift and all. Maybe Wave 10 (or whatever) has been in production for a while already, and they were planning to release in 2010 or something. Maybe these 10/23 rumors are a trial balloon to see if all the plasticrack addicts still have money/enthusiasm left over from the long delay between Waves 8 & 9. Maybe our aggressive purchasing over the summer is convincing WOTC to step up with HS plans moving forward into the future.

…or maybe I’m just another overthinking fanboy. ;)

Your thoughts?
 
I was stupid three or so years ago when I did not get all the sets of commons that I saw (I would get one or two when I eventually needed or ended up wanting three or four). When things started becoming scarce a couple of years ago and with the fiasco of wave 8 that could not be found for months, I wised up. Now I get three-to-four sets of commons for every new wave at release. As long as new waves keep coming, WotC will get hundred$ from most of us. I don't own more than one of each unique hero, with few exceptions, but some around here own multiple uniques. Who does not have three or more sets of ashigarus? Blastatrons? 4th Mass? 10th? Once you get hooked to plasticrack, you are hooked forever! I wonder how the drop out rate is. Even then, if you drop out and loose touch, and happen to walk accross a new wave, you want back in. It's a safe and sound addiction... for most... and better than most other addictions.

One more thing about Heroscape is that waves will sell well even out of season. With toy/games being highly seasonal, it is nice to have products like Heroscape that are less seasonal. What is selling hot than expansion sets outside of Christmas?
 
Being new to Heroscape, and new to these boards, I realize that all you veterans are much less paranoid about our favorite game dying the death someday. But I can't help but wonder what the "glory days" were like.

I breezed through Wikipedia, finding that in the early years there were upwards of 6 releases a year, including multiple waves and even new master sets. In 2009, the year I discovered Heroscape, there has been ONE release. And as far as I can tell, that may be all we're due for.

I've seen the arguments and debates. I know this is a transitionary period for WotC, and that HS generally "sells well," and that Cool Stuff Inc. has sold off most of their stock, but how can even the most die-hard amongst you not fear the demise?

There were 6 expansions and waves in 2005, 6 in 2006, SotM and Marvel and 2 expansions in 2007, 3 expansions or waves in 2008, and now, 1 in 2009. Factually, things are tapering off. I've looked at videos and listened to podcasts from GenCons past, and things are tapering off.

The arguments about a "different type of player" and a big change in distribution are sound, of course, but coming in this late in the game, there are signs I can't ignore. I walked through Toys R Us yesterday, and wondered why they had 8 versions of Monopoly, but can't carry even one master set? The manager there said Heroscape sold really well when they carried it, and wondered why is seemed to just disappear.

So, count me in on the doom and gloom. I want to believe Wizards loves and serves our brand, but looking at the evidence objectively, it's hard to believe that the sky is not, in fact, falling.
 
dingofire said:
Being new to Heroscape, and new to these boards, I realize that all you veterans are much less paranoid about our favorite game dying the death someday. But I can't help but wonder what the "glory days" were like.

I breezed through Wikipedia, finding that in the early years there were upwards of 6 releases a year, including multiple waves and even new master sets. In 2009, the year I discovered Heroscape, there has been ONE release. And as far as I can tell, that may be all we're due for.

I've seen the arguments and debates. I know this is a transitionary period for WotC, and that HS generally "sells well," and that Cool Stuff Inc. has sold off most of their stock, but how can even the most die-hard amongst you not fear the demise?

There were 6 expansions and waves in 2005, 6 in 2006, SotM and Marvel and 2 expansions in 2007, 3 expansions or waves in 2008, and now, 1 in 2009. Factually, things are tapering off. I've looked at videos and listened to podcasts from GenCons past, and things are tapering off.

The arguments about a "different type of player" and a big change in distribution are sound, of course, but coming in this late in the game, there are signs I can't ignore. I walked through Toys R Us yesterday, and wondered why they had 8 versions of Monopoly, but can't carry even one master set? The manager there said Heroscape sold really well when they carried it, and wondered why is seemed to just disappear.

So, count me in on the doom and gloom. I want to believe Wizards loves and serves our brand, but looking at the evidence objectively, it's hard to believe that the sky is not, in fact, falling.
Click to expand...
The TRU thing was completely about business dealings. TRU demanded pricing that WotC couldn't or wouldn't grant so their business agreement was desolved.
 
dingofire said:
There were 6 expansions and waves in 2005, 6 in 2006...
Click to expand...

Also, I don't believe this is factually correct. Six expansions/waves in 2005 and six more in 2006? I'm not so sure. I didn't start my Heroscape addiction until summer 2007, but since Heroscape began in 2004 and Wave 7 was only just coming out in 2007, I doubt 12 expansions came out in 2005-2006. Feel free to spread the doom and gloom, but not with incorrect statements.
 
Sherman Davies said:
dingofire said:
There were 6 expansions and waves in 2005, 6 in 2006...
Click to expand...

Also, I don't believe this is factually correct. ...
Click to expand...
I also have no idea how the heck he is doing his counting. I've been around since the beginning (more or less) and while I didn't keep track I know that there was a never a year with 6 expansions.

Even if he's counting Large/Terrain expansions separately there's only been 18 new expansions (including SOTM), and if we're counting them that way then 3 of them came out last year. And we really should count the re-releases as well, so 4 last year, 2 this year. Not bad.

Really, dingofire, a little bit of fact checking. You aren't impressing anyone by moaning about things that never happened.
 
Well, thanks for the comments. Nice to see I didn't get blasted too badly and my tiny, single box is still barely a lovely shade of green. Also, thanks for the info about TRU.

Below is a brief summary of the Wikipedia article that I referred to originally, found here. There's certainly room for interpretation, like saying Orm's and RttFF were released at the same time, therefore they are "one release." Maybe I shouldn't count TRU exclusives? This list doesn't include re-releases of waves either, and I know those have been happening, like Kroc said. The original numbers I posted were through the very scientific method of "counting how many things Wikipedia has listed in bold per year." I certainly have no intent of spreading misinformation or causing rage or yucky feelings of any sort.

There's no other way to interpret this other than the fact that there are less now than there once was, right? That's all I was saying originally. Or that's all I meant to say.

2004:
1. RotV

2005:
1. Wave 1
2. Wave 2
3. Orm's Return
4. RttFF
5. Wave 3
6. VW

2006:
1. Wave 4
2. Raknar's Vision
3. Thaelenk Tundra
4. FotA
5. Wave 5
6. Flagbearers

2007:
1. Wave 6
2. SotM
3. Marvel
4. Wave 7

2008:
1. Wave 8
2. Aquilla's Alliance
3. Ticalla Jungle

2009:
1. Wave 9

Now, there are those wonderfully mysterious threads about October and maybe even December 2009 bringing us more new stuff. So, who knows? Just wanted to talk about it as of today.
 
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