HeroScape is coming back!

[chas]

Here's a link to a 23 minute youtube video by Sir Heroscape which is his summary and reaction to the Renegade Stream, which he posted a couple of days ago. One thing I didn't catch he mentions is that Wave 1 of the Renegade Revival will be available for purchase in the First Quarter of 2024! Will this include things not in the upcoming new Master Set and/or the smaller buy in set--should we rush to buy it or wait for it to be included in a later offering? (Old production Waves were of course not included Master sets).

At the end this also links to a 15 minute video that reviews some of what was in the Hasbro offering in a "Reader's Digest" summary. During the offering period he of course did many more detailed videos on this material. Here the one thing he mentions I found most interesting is the reminder that there were some design hints on things that were not in the offering. He wasn't specific about these; I guess he's talking about things like a Dwarf Mammoth which I think we saw a sketch for.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghu30ZH35aA[/ame]

 

[My Darling Panzer]

Here's a link to a 23 minute youtube video by Sir Heroscape which is his summary and reaction to the Renegade Stream, which he posted a couple of days ago. One thing I didn't catch he mentions is that Wave 1 of the Renegade Revival will be available for purchase in the First Quarter of 2024! Will this include things not in the upcoming new Master Set and/or the smaller buy in set--should we rush to buy it or wait for it to be included in a later offering? (Old production Waves were of course not included Master sets).

At the end this also links to a 15 minute video that reviews some of what was in the Hasbro offering in a "Reader's Digest" summary. During the offering period he of course did many more detailed videos on this material. Here the one thing he mentions I found most interesting is the reminder that there were some design hints on things that were not in the offering. He wasn't specific about these; I guess he's talking about things like a Dwarf Mammoth which I think we saw a sketch for.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghu30ZH35aA

Sorry to be a downer, but to clarify, the pinned comment from Scott from Renegade on the video states that there will be reveals in Q1 2024, not content available for purchase. I wish it were so, but alas tis not so!

 

[chas]

MDP,

Thanks; that makes more sense. Maybe Sir Heroscape meant "available to look at?"

 

[Sir Heroscape]

MDP,

Thanks; that makes more sense. Maybe Sir Heroscape meant "available to look at?"

yes. I didn't articulate it clearly...but the big reveal was that they'll announce the wave 1 content by Q1...not necessarily purchase. It's possible, of course they could open up pre-orders...but they confirmed no product would likely be available during Q1...more just that all the content will be revealed.

 

[foofoofun]

I've been checking in sporadically and I'm happy to hear that were getting more solid information about what's happening. I'm a bit surprised that historical units are still off the table as are reprints, but it's good to hear that they're at least looking into the possibility of pre-painted figures.

On the concept of reprints I'll just throw an idea out that they may or may not have already considered but there's no need to do a full scale reprint of the entirety of heroscape. The main thing is making sure that newer players who don't have as expansive a collection as some more long time players don't feel left out and unable to participate. So that really just means that the only reprints that it might hurt to not have are very competitively viable figures, and perhaps secondarily very popular figures. And if the list needs to be scaled down even further once you stop considering the historical figures there's a pretty small list of reprints that would have a dramatic effect on the collections of new players.

I've said plenty on historical figures during the last revival so I won't go over all of my points again, but I do believe that it's better to take proactive steps with historical figures and make efforts to approach them properly.

That all said I'm gonna keep my eye on this, I won't have a ton of time to contribute but I'll definitely make sure to let everyone I know who might be interested what's happening and I'll put a little pressure on a few game stores to pickup heroscape if I can.

Edit: apparently like an AI I'm just hallucinating some number of facts here or at least misinterpreting what others have said. I'll just make this edit for coherency of the thread but hopefully making sure not to spread misinformation.

 

[IAmBatman]

I must've missed where it was said that historical units were off the table? They're focusing on AoA stuff in the short term. Has there been anything concrete said about what's coming out after other than no reprints?

 

[chas]

They themselves are designing new figures/cards, so I assume those will also be AOA. There's been nothing about After AOA as far as I know.

 

[chas]

Its interesting how the new Kickstarter offering--Source (terrain sets) with Timestrike (the first game to use them; name changed from "Timescape" after the Haslab and/or Renegade announcements) now being offered together in their new Kickstarter by their own company Adventure Together Games--is handling the prepainted issue for their own figures. It seems they are prepainting their main Heroes but leaving the Monsters unpainted.

Such a mix seems kind of weird, and seems to confirm what some previous posters have said about the possibility of Haslab eventually having some figures painted and some not--that that would look odd; I think it does. Ditto for unpainted AOA coming in on a battlefield besides the painted previous Scape issued.

I wish the other company success of course, but as I discovered on the Other Board Game section's "What Kickstarters Are You Backing" thread, it turns out the new product is not in fact compatible with Scape terrain, and you can't connect them together, although you could use Scape figures on the new terrain which is in a similar scale. One guy there said he is backing it, but no one else has said so so far. It backed fully in only an hour; they had a reasonable funding goal.

Since it has just come out after some preliminary ads, and it takes a while to set such an offering up, I assume they didn't know about the Renegade Revival of Scape just like the rest of us, and were originally planning their offering either before they knew about either the Haslab offering to come, or later on the Renegade one now being noted as to come next year.

So now there is an alternative to Renegade, although it seems like those of us with large original Scape collections will not in general be bailing into the new Source and Timestrike sets. One can only wonder how and if AT's line will affect what Renegade will be doing, with this other game system now being in direct competition with Heroscape as another plastic hex game system, and a first game to play on it.

 

[IAmBatman]

The Source folks have been at work for 3+ years, yeah. The name change, I think, was trying to play nice and avoid confusion preemptively after Renegade's announcement.

I should clarify some other points you made here as well:

1. It doesn't come prepainted. There's a (higher) tier of backing that includes a precolored option where the minis come printed in full color. I believe it's like 11 printed in full color and 8 "paint yourself" figures (that are maybe more of the generic grunts, which would likely bother someone like me less).

2. Since the precolored is not the default, it's worth noting the price difference. A base buy-in of the terrain system and the TimeStrike game is $99 on the Kickstarter. There's a $200 upcharge from there for the precoloring.

If Renegade ends up offering precolored printing (seems more realistic than prepainted in 2023, especially as technology evolves) that gives a good baseline ($200 upcharge for about 11 figures).

 

[nyys]

I hope the Renegade offering doesn't end up just being pre-colored (if they're able to offer anything at all), that'll be wildly disappointing, at least for me.

I'd prefer gray if there's no reasonable pre-painted option. I feel like it 'matches' better than the loud colors (at least the ones Hasbro had initially chosen). Though I realize the figures are much easier differentiated pre-colored, than a sea of gray.

As much as I really dislike painting. Having to paint Scape minis will be much easier since the schemes on the classic figures was so simple. Nothing intricate, much easier to match the aesthetic.

 

[chas]

Thanks for the clarifications, Bats. Just to mention it, I have also used Scape terrain for my huge collection of old Star Wars minis; 1 inch from that games flexible ruler cloths become 1 hex, and that's all. I've only done it a couple of times, once or twice with our own HOSS scenarios, and once with the old minis and their own rules in a snowy Hoth setup, including my one BIG AT-AT and a bunch of AT-STs, etc.

So I certainly understand the utility of our hexes. I've also seen Scape terrain used for wargames at HMGS Conventions, with both 54mm figures like I collect (30,000 of them) with only 1 mini to a hex, and also smaller scales being used. I guess the advent of 3D printing makes it more than a coincidence that both companies are offering their games now.

I took only a quick look at the ATG offering, and saw painted mixed with unpainted figures. I like the different options they have with the many different "bionome" sets (different terrain settings) they will be offering. And their many additional terrain types to what we have in Scape might give Renegade some ideas! It might be that in the future some of the ATG specialized terrain pieces other than the hexes end up here in our games. Their walls look good, but of course we'll be getting walls with AOA (see my anticipatory rules for Illusory Walls through my signature link below, for which I'm using our current Castle Walls for now in our games--there are photos of some of our games, including the one where I set up the walls almost identicalyl to the set up seen in that old Haslab display photo.

 

[IAmBatman]

Ooh, I don't think I'd seen that Source posted walls. I'm going to have to check that out ....

I hope the Renegade offering doesn't end up just being pre-colored (if they're able to offer anything at all), that'll be wildly disappointing, at least for me.

I mean, I imagine (unless they are really misguided) that they'd include it as an option, not the default. If it's like $18/mini more to offer it precolored, that shouldn't be the base offering, IMO, just an option something has. In 2023 in what's likely initially going to be a direct-to-market sale, there's no reason not to offer targeted options like that.

 

[nyys]

I mean, I imagine (unless they are really misguided) that they'd include it as an option, not the default. If it's like $18/mini more to offer it precolored, that shouldn't be the base offering, IMO, just an option something has. In 2023 in what's likely initially going to be a direct-to-market sale, there's no reason not to offer targeted options like that.

100% It hurts nobody if it's simply an option you can take or leave. If you want gray, you can have gray. If you want to pay a bit more and have pre-color, you can have pre-color. My hope is it doesn't stop there.

Of course even if they do offer pre-painted, I'm preparing myself that I won't be able to afford it.

 

[boromir96]

I mean, I imagine (unless they are really misguided) that they'd include it as an option, not the default. If it's like $18/mini more to offer it precolored, that shouldn't be the base offering, IMO, just an option something has. In 2023 in what's likely initially going to be a direct-to-market sale, there's no reason not to offer targeted options like that.

100% It hurts nobody if it's simply an option you can take or leave. If you want gray, you can have gray. If you want to pay a bit more and have pre-color, you can have pre-color. My hope is it doesn't stop there.

Of course even if they do offer pre-painted, I'm preparing myself that I won't be able to afford it.

Unlike the Source offering though, this is a straight to retail product that will be stocked in stores. So I don’t know that I could confidently say having a pre colored option has no downsides. It’s twice as much of the “same” product for stores to stock, and if they’re expensive or not attractive enough that product could clog shelves and lead to retailers not wanting to buy more product. Could they offer it only on their website maybe?

 

[nyys]

Could they offer it only on their website maybe?

That's the most likely scenario IMO. Anything outside the norm will likely only be available thru Renegade whether via pre-order or on their website.

That said. If any of it finds it's way into places like Target or Walmart, I can see that being pre-colored. Pre-paint will likely be too expensive and gray minis probably won't impress the casual shopper.

Though isn't the retail stuff only supposed to wind up in FLGSs?

 

[IAmBatman]

I mean, I imagine (unless they are really misguided) that they'd include it as an option, not the default. If it's like $18/mini more to offer it precolored, that shouldn't be the base offering, IMO, just an option something has. In 2023 in what's likely initially going to be a direct-to-market sale, there's no reason not to offer targeted options like that.

100% It hurts nobody if it's simply an option you can take or leave. If you want gray, you can have gray. If you want to pay a bit more and have pre-color, you can have pre-color. My hope is it doesn't stop there.

Of course even if they do offer pre-painted, I'm preparing myself that I won't be able to afford it.

Unlike the Source offering though, this is a straight to retail product that will be stocked in stores. So I don’t know that I could confidently say having a pre colored option has no downsides. It’s twice as much of the “same” product for stores to stock, and if they’re expensive or not attractive enough that product could clog shelves and lead to retailers not wanting to buy more product. Could they offer it only on their website maybe?

I could definitely see precolored only being part of a preorder and direct-to-market part of the product.

That said, I'll believe Heroscape is going to frequently clog the shelves of retailers again when I see it. I just don't believe it's going to be the same mass market, big box type of thing it was in the past, and I'm not confident it'll have the sales rate needed to get stocked in a lot of botique game stores beyond maybe an initial set.

I'm guessing the future of Heroscape through Renegade is going to be mostly online sales, which is where the precolored option would work best. That's based on little more than my irresponsible guesswork, though, but it does match up with general economic trends, IMO.

 

[nyys]

For the most part I agree with all that @IAmBatman. There won't be a big boom, but it'll be big enough to keep the game alive. At least for a time. With online sales thru Renegade (where the different options can be offered) being the biggest driver.

That and I think organized play participation will play a role as well in how long the game is supported.

 

[IAmBatman]

Oh for sure. I definitely think it can be a viable product for a long time with lots of expansion legs. I just think it needs to evolve into being a pretty different beast than it was in the old days in order to do that (mostly in terms of marketing and distribution).

 

[wriggz]

Sadly it's about forecasting demand, and when it comes to painting you want the be sure it will sell for profit.

This isn't like Kickstarter where you know if you hit x% of orders you are going to make a profit. Renegade wants to sell exactly how much they make to satisfy enough people that they will buy more or spread the word.

The world has changed almost to a 100% just in time model where unsold supply is a liability not an asset. Companies want to minimize squ numbers not expand them.

 

[IAmBatman]

I'm going to officially predict that prepainted isn't going to be on the table ever. I don't think the economics or the politics make sense.

I think that precolored printing, as the technology improves, very well could be (at a premium). I imagine that Renegade would want to leverage a presales approach to selling precolored minis, though, or do very limited precolored (like huge figures) and keep everything else mono-colored in order to keep things at viable prices.

I imagine they're still internally exploring a lot of their options on all of this, though.

 

[Master Roshi]

I'm going to officially predict that prepainted isn't going to be on the table ever. I don't think the economics or the politics make sense.

I think that precolored printing, as the technology improves, very well could be (at a premium). I imagine that Renegade would want to leverage a presales approach to selling precolored minis, though, or do very limited precolored (like huge figures) and keep everything else mono-colored in order to keep things at viable prices.

I imagine they're still internally exploring a lot of their options on all of this, though.

This makes sense to me; it's just logistically more feasible to limit what they produce to one or the other

And at this point I'd prefer it to be unpainted, since painted would be more expensive for us to purchase

 

[Robotech Master]

I've been painting Warmachine, Firestorm Armada, Kings of War Armada, Anima Tactics, Deepwars/Shadowsea, Eldfall Chronicles, Uncharted Sea, Planetfall, and more over the last 13 - 14 years, I'm more than prepared for Heroscape to relaunch unpainted.

 

[Porkins]

I'm going to officially predict that prepainted isn't going to be on the table ever. I don't think the economics or the politics make sense.

I think that precolored printing, as the technology improves, very well could be (at a premium). I imagine that Renegade would want to leverage a presales approach to selling precolored minis, though, or do very limited precolored (like huge figures) and keep everything else mono-colored in order to keep things at viable prices.

I imagine they're still internally exploring a lot of their options on all of this, though.

I have difficulty believing that they can hit the necessary production rates with a printed offering. I believe they'll be injection molded, which means all gray or by faction colors (green for Ullar, red for Utgar, etc.), but not "choose if you want gray or faction color."

 

[nate the dawg]

This new environment may encourage group buying strategies of the new stuff. Here at The New York City Gang of Four, where I'm the physical host for our games, most of the five of us own almost all of the Classic product, and I've been gifted all of the VC cards on cardboard stock. Since we have minimal participation in the tournament scene, we also borrow figures from each other as necessary for our monthly custom scenarios.

Its a standard practice in nonScape game clubs for different individuals to collect different mini armies for the major nations in a particular conflict. In a like manner, now for both figures/cards and terrain, different people could buy different product, and make it all available to the group.

Recently one of us moved into a smaller apartment and got rid of his stuff, selling or gifting most of it to the rest of us or others. Some of us have large collections of nonScape figures from other games that we can use as proxies as needed. Examples include Star Wars figures and Heroclix. And some of the committee approved minis for VC cards. This has allowed me to come up with proxies for all of the unofficial versions of the new AOA designs for my Age of Annihilation Revival Project, which you can check out on our thread linked below in my signature line. This has allowed us to already be playing games with all the Hasbro Offering AOA stuff using cards by Anitar and/or myself. (Only recently did I see there is a group working on this also, which started out before the Renegade Revival announcement. See New Generation Customs here: https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=62319. Since the Renegade announcement, they are now working on their own new AOA Customs only). Their stuff is in the Customs section (New Heroscape Cards and Figures) rather than the new AOA section. Although they are using Discord and also put up their own site, there are links to it all there.

It appears that the new types of product, finally including terrain packs and possibly faction card/mini packs, will make this strategy of coordinated buying of the new (and relatively expensive, whether painted or not) game equipment. Another possibility would be chipping in together for largers sets so the group can have access to them.

This is what my group has always done - With Heroscape, Pathfinder ACG, Vs System, Heroquest, etc.

All in all, we put about six grand into Scape across its lifetime, split between six people. We'd each chip in when a new wave came out, so we'd quickly get to our minimum 3x commons, and in some cases, many more!

 

[Nukatha]

My hope for color is a variable neutral color appropriate for each unit, like the natural skintone of a unit (tan Marro, perhaps grey or white for a given Soulborg, etc).
I could tolerate a consistent neutral grey for all units if needed, but absolutely do not want Arena Of The Planeswalkers's solid faction colors (with the obvious exception of Jace's transparent phantoms, those turned out nice).