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Heroes of Fiction: Design Thread

Strack9 said:
What is the timing for Ranger's Cloak? can you interrupt anyone's turn? Can you do it at the end of the round?

Does the 'X' marker have to be on this card?

If the move is only going to happen once per round because of the 'X' order marker (and only one of your rangers will be able to do it) I could see a bigger number of move spaces being more useful, but not overpowered.
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My thought was that it could happen at any time, including interrupting another players turn, but I'm not sure. The idea would be that it keeps the figure out of range of Cyprein or Templar. Do you have any ideas for how that could be expressed on the card in a way that's not confusing?

Taeblewalker said:
Ranger's Cloak is a great power; different than anything done before in HS (the closest existing powers would be Hide in Shadows, Cloud of Darkness, Lurk in Shadows and Smoke Powder 13) but fitting well into the canon. I wonder if he might be overpriced at 130, especially since he has no synergies with any other units, but overall he is a solid design.
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The points are going to depend on playtesting because the abilities are so unique. I think the abilities are set up in such a way that these units could be some of the best kiting figures in the game - like a more powerful version of Krav Maga (except with only 2 attacks instead of 3) because of the movement flexibility rangers cloak gives. For that reason I could see as high as 140 points for Will.

However, I could see a world in which their action inefficiency (only 2 attacks, no bonding) and low life/defense really inhibits them and brings Will as low as 90 points, and Halt as low as 80.

I'm expecting the sweet spot to be between 100-130 but that's pending playtesting.

As I theoryscape this, you'd probably only put 1 ranger in your army and you'd typically try to keep the "3" and "X" order markers on them every round once they've claimed height to take advantage of rangers cloak. That should make them really annoying and difficult to take down unless your opponent has units who can fly/disengage past your screen. But it also limits the potential of a Ranger totally devestating the opponents army - OMs 1 & 2 need to be on other units (I could see Knights of Weston as really good here) to keep ranger's cloak operative and build up a screen and ensure the ranger doesn't get taken down by opposing range with their mere 2 defense. When it gets to endgame, the Ranger will be deadly (if it survives) but will have lost the benefits of rangers cloak so it should be fairly even.
 
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Re: Choices

Dysole said:
There is the option to design one now and then the other the next time around since Will looks pretty standalone.
~Dysole, informationally
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I second this.

I like to think of phantom cards : Assume they exist and thus consider them in synergy . for example if we know the guy not being designed is more melee based, we don't have to design the melee power, but create a synergy that would theoretically enhance that.

I do this with scenarios also. There are aspects of a character that are part of their story but don't make the cut. For the scenario they indeed have this ability. In Master Set 3, there is a darkness scenario where players have torches. There could be a scenario for John Wick where coins come into play, etc etc.

Part of the fun - also! has you wanting to stay on so you can get to developing the next.
 
Knox said:
I think I'll go with just designing Will for now. My thoughts with the personality would be that Will could change from valiant to resolute. Other options would be "precise" "loyal" and "mysterious." (Mysterious would be inventing a personality though).

I'm wondering if Ranger's cloak could somehow be changed in one of the following ways:
- If there are no revealed order markers on this card, Will Treaty has no visible hit zone...
- If Will Treaty's hit zone is partially obscured (from the vantage of a non-adjacent attacking figure) by a battlefield object (ruins, trees, glacier, bushes, battlements, etc.) or by terrain, Will Treaty is considered to have no visible hit zone (to that figure). Note that this does not apply if Will Treaty's hit zone is obscured by another figure.

The "or by terrain" part is optional. I'm open to adding or dropping that via playtesting

Thoughts?

P.S. for Halt I'm thinking Mysterious personality, and then replacing "like a son to me" with "expert tracker" which would just be "ignores difficult terrain" (e.g., heavy snow).
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It appears you are refencing powers not posted here. I see you included a link, but please, do repost the powers here.

No visible hit zones based on OM is easier, and thus probably the winner overall - I do like the other, but I imagine it being a sucker to pin down correctly with words.
 
Knox said:
I think I'll go with just designing Will for now. My thoughts with the personality would be that Will could change from valiant to resolute. Other options would be "precise" "loyal" and "mysterious." (Mysterious would be inventing a personality though).
Click to expand...

I think if the mysterious route is chosen it should be the focus of the figure. A once per game power that allows the player to choose a mode and radically change the figure.
If it swapped around with an X marker, that's more Tricky than Mysterious. It would need to be memorable, so players remember it. Then again could place the appropriate personality marker on the figure. choices.
 
Strack9 said:
Just stumbled on this thread and am inspired by the Ranger team.
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Welcome to the group. You have been added to the list and came in at a good time because that places you relatively close to becoming a design lead as most of us have designed >0 cards.
 
Knox said:
Here's my latest update:

Will-Treaty.jpg
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Click to expand...

Now this is cool.

With Ranger's Cloak, could probably simplify it to simply remove X to move. Yes that could enhance power level, but eh

I love the limited counter strike
 
Strack9 said:
What is the timing for Ranger's Cloak? can you interrupt anyone's turn? Can you do it at the end of the round?

Does the 'X' marker have to be on this card?

If the move is only going to happen once per round because of the 'X' order marker (and only one of your rangers will be able to do it) I could see a bigger number of move spaces being more useful, but not overpowered.
Click to expand...

I like Move 2 as homage to Tracking
 
I like the idea of Ranger's Cloak. It prevents him from being sniped if you lose the initiative. I'm not sure that that power plus Double Knife Defense should cost 30 more points than Syvarris with the exact same stats. Maybe 120 would be better, but I'd have to playtest it to be sure. Overall, solid design.
 
Knox said:
Strack9 said:
What is the timing for Ranger's Cloak? can you interrupt anyone's turn? Can you do it at the end of the round?

Does the 'X' marker have to be on this card?

If the move is only going to happen once per round because of the 'X' order marker (and only one of your rangers will be able to do it) I could see a bigger number of move spaces being more useful, but not overpowered.
Click to expand...

My thought was that it could happen at any time, including interrupting another players turn, but I'm not sure. The idea would be that it keeps the figure out of range of Cyprein or Templar. Do you have any ideas for how that could be expressed on the card in a way that's not confusing?
Click to expand...

I think letting it happen at any time is a little messy compared to defining a condition or turn phase. Here's some thoughts on how to express that:

Strack9 said:
. . . The first time any figure you control is targeted for an attack on an opponent's turn, if there is an opponent's figure within 3 spaces of Will that was more than 3 spaces away from Will at the start of the turn, you may reveal the "X" Order Marker to move 2 spaces . . .
Click to expand...

Pros:
  • The timing is clear.
  • It will protect from 1 round of melee attacks by a figure that is trying to close the distance; like Templar
  • The flavor of a figure less that 3 spaces away detecting him between turns is nice and offers some playstyle decisions for both players
  • 2 spaces is enough to get the job done
  • gives utility even when Will isn't the one being attacked

Cons:
  • It doesn't protect against special abilities like Cyprien's Chilling Touch
  • Doesn't protect against special attacks that don't target, like Mimring's Fire Line


You could add in special abilities:
. . . Whenever Will is targeted for an attack or a special ability by an opponent's figure that is adjacent to Will you may reveal the "X" Order Marker to move 2 spaces . . .
Click to expand...

Pros:
  • The timing is probably clear?
  • It will protect from 1 round of melee attacks by a figure that is trying to close the distance; like Templar
  • It will protect against special abilities that require adjacency like Cyprien's
  • 2 spaces is enough to get the job done

Cons:
  • It doesn't protect against ranged special abilities like Braxas' Acid Breath
  • Still doesn't protect against special attacks that don't target like Mimring's Fire Line
  • How special abilities "target" a figure may be less clear than how special attacks "target". I can't think of a precident for that kind of language for anywhere, and a lot of FAQs were needed for the Nakita' Smoke Powder to just to cover how it worked for attacks. There's a lot more and varied kinds of special powers
  • less flavor

You could trigger it off of movement like Elaria the Pale:
. . . If an opponent's figure moves adjacent to Will and onto a space where it can end its movement, Will may immediately reveal the "X" Order Marker to move up to 2 spaces. Will will not take any leaving engagement attacks when moving with Ranger's Cloak
Click to expand...
Pros:
  • Timing is clear
  • Might protect against Cyprien or Templar sometimes

Cons:
  • 2 move probably isn't enough because it won't protect against Cyprien or Templar if they have more than 2 move left after you activate Ranger's Cloak
  • Even if you move away from one potential attack, it doesn't keep remaining figures of a squad from closing the distance and attacking

I think the power is best keying off an attack because Cloaking 2 spaces is probably only useful if if the opponent is done moving. I, for one, am OK with him being vulnerable to some special abilities if he can avoid 1 round of melee attacks. I vaguely recall that there may be a reason to disinclude special attacks from powers that trigger off of being attacked (most figures avoid including special attacks or use "when rolling Defense Dice" language). I can't remember the specific reason why, but queuing off that hunch and mixing and matching, this one would be my best effort:

If there are no revealed numbered Order Markers on this card, Will Treaty has no visible Hit Zone to figures entirely more than 3 spaces away. Once per round, if there are no other revealed Order Markers on this card, if Will is targeted for a normal attack by an adjacent opponent that was more than 3 spaces away from Will at the start of its turn, you may reveal the "X" Order Marker to move 2 spaces. Will will not take any leaving engagement attacks when moving with Ranger's Cloak. If Will remains adjacent to the attacking figure, it must attack Will this turn.
Click to expand...

I like the idea of Will being able to reposition instead of running, but I do think the power should either specify what happens if he remains adjacent, or state that he must "end his move unadjacent in order to move"

I think the power would be OK with only covering normal attacks. There's still protection against ranged special attacks and you'll be able to move away from everything but an adjacent special attack. Few squads have special attacks, and if you still wanted protection from a Hero melee special attack, you could change Double Knife Defense 12 to just be "when rolling defense dice" and eliminate the "against a normal attack" language.

edit: I think Double Knife Defense should be renamed Double Dagger Defense 'cause then you'd have a Cloak power and a Dagger power :)
 
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Knox said:
Strack9 said:
What is the timing for Ranger's Cloak? can you interrupt anyone's turn? Can you do it at the end of the round?
Click to expand...

My thought was that it could happen at any time, including interrupting another players turn, but I'm not sure. The idea would be that it keeps the figure out of range of Cyprein or Templar. Do you have any ideas for how that could be expressed on the card in a way that's not confusing?
Click to expand...

As written, the power only can be activated during its turn.

Rephrasing examples could be appropriate here to share.
 
For What It's Worth

If I remember right Elaria's Slippery 6 created an absolute MESS of rules situations as far as movement interactions on an opponent's turn so it's really best to make the X OM reveal something you reveal on your turn.

Also worth noting that I don't love "no visible hit zones within X spaces away" but it does leave the figure vulnerable to things like Acid Breath, Dragon Swoop, and other powers that are not considered to be attacks. No clue if this is on theme or not.

~Dysole, who will try to give a more in depth look soon
 
Re: For What It's Worth

Dysole said:
If I remember right Elaria's Slippery 6 created an absolute MESS of rules situations as far as movement interactions on an opponent's turn so it's really best to make the X OM reveal something you reveal on your turn.

Also worth noting that I don't love "no visible hit zones within X spaces away" but it does leave the figure vulnerable to things like Acid Breath, Dragon Swoop, and other powers that are not considered to be attacks. No clue if this is on theme or not.

~Dysole, who will try to give a more in depth look soon
Click to expand...

Eh, I think it could be on theme. If you know generally that there's an opponent in the area and they're well hidden, throwing a grenade, shooting a rocket launcher, or filling the area with poisonous gas (all AOE attacks in heroscape) seem like a good fool-proof way to hit the target. I don't see why that would break the theme. A mini dragon could also be hyper perceptive or even navigate with smell. Being unhittable isn't the theme, but incredible camouflage is. Camouflage is probably #1 on most essential thematic elements based on the books.
 
[ame]https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/brotherwise/stormlight-premium-miniatures?ref=ksr_email_user_watched_project_launched[/ame]

Look at this :)
 
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