Greeks

[GI Joker]

I just got done watching 300 and it got me thinking about the Sacred Band. Specifically, why do those guys look so silly? They have odd hats and weird tan armor. Generally when I think of ancient Greeks I think of bronze breast plates and spears. Am I completely wrong? Did the Greeks really wear floppy grey fishing hats? Any thoughts? And I am going to apologize ahead of time if this thread has already been posted elsewhere.

 

[Clarissimus]

I don't know what in what thread, but their armor has been discussed before. It looks like a Carthaginian style of armor made of pressed linen. But as for the hats, no one knew.

Keep in mind, though, that the Sacred Band aren't Spartans (and of course the movie 300 is a highly stylized representation of Spartans.) I think they're actually Macedonians.

 

[GI Joker]

Yeah, I know that the Spartans in 300 are very stylized, that is why i mentioned the breast plates. I think it is one of the admins' avatars that looks like what I think of when I think Greeks.
edit: I just found this :"Many pieces of Greek equipment were used by Carthaginians troops, one popular piece being the linothorax, a cuirass made of layers of linen glued together to make a tough shell. Elite troops of the Sacred Band used the linothorax and it was distinctively painted with symbols of Tanit, the patron goddess of the unit. The early Carthaginian citizen army rank and file used the linothorax but after extensive contact with the Romans, superior chain mail replaced it."

on http://wildfiregames.com/0ad/page.php?p=1552

 

[Clarissimus]

Superior chain mail? Bah! The Roman Archers wear chain mail and have only 1 defense. Meanwhile the 4th Mass Line with their woolen jackets have 2 or even 3.

 

[Lotus]

Superior chain mail? Bah! The Roman Archers wear chain mail and have only 1 defense. Meanwhile the 4th Mass Line with their woolen jackets have 2 or even 3.

That's because the Fourth have learned the 5 D's of Defense, Dodge, Duck, Dip, Dive and . . . . Dodge. Well maybe just the first D, but still they are better than those ruddy romans.

 

[Mythic]

See "My Repaints/Mods" link in my sig for a remake of the greeks with cooler helms. There is a link in there as well with an overview of the different helms used during the period....

 

[tmacdagreat]

I am a history buff so I know this off the top of my head. It was a theban (City-state of Thebes) Elite infantry group. They and a new battle strategy that their best leader Epaminodas or something like that came up with helped Thebes become the strongest power in Ancient greece for a short time.

 

[SoulfulKillingMachine]

That's because the Fourth have learned the 5 D's of Defense, Dodge, Duck, Dip, Dive and . . . . Dodge. Well maybe just the first D, but still they are better than those ruddy romans.

No they don't. Colonial minutemen were the most defenseless, inefficient ranged soldiers ever. First they had to contact the enemy in advance to schedule a time and place for each battle. Then they fought in flat, open fields with no civilians around. They stood completely still in a wide row, wearing bright colors, with drums and flutes to make sure everyone noticed them. They attacked in volleys, refusing to aim with their sights because of honor or something, and the first snipers were treated as criminals. Anyone who tells me "War. War never changes." is getting punched in the nuts.

Why do the romans have less defense? Because it's a turn-based board game about magic and time travel. Leave your realism at the door.

 

[Lotus]

I know exactly how they fought, thanks.

It was this lovely thing called Sarcasm. Ever watch Dodgeball?

 

[killercactus]

I thought the minutemen invented hiding behind trees and attacking, and it was the redcoats that stood in straight lines and attacked in volleys? I figured the 4th Mass had the Wait and Fire ability because they would hide behind trees, wait until they had their prey surrounded and then jump out and fire. The whole "Don't fire until you see the whites of their eyes" thing....

I could be completely wrong though.... I count things for a living, not study history.

 

[Lotus]

I know the English did, and the Americans fought in the same fashion early on, though they switched to Guerilla tactics later on, they also started wearing drab colors. History though is not my specialty, I have a rough understanding from my one teacher who friggin drilled us in this crap. I mostly stick with pre gun stuff as my favorite, but I never got serious with it.

 

[HyperactiveSloth]

That's because the Fourth have learned the 5 D's of Defense, Dodge, Duck, Dip, Dive and . . . . Dodge. Well maybe just the first D, but still they are better than those ruddy romans.

No they don't. Colonial minutemen were the most defenseless, inefficient ranged soldiers ever. First they had to contact the enemy in advance to schedule a time and place for each battle. Then they fought in flat, open fields with no civilians around. They stood completely still in a wide row, wearing bright colors, with drums and flutes to make sure everyone noticed them. They attacked in volleys, refusing to aim with their sights because of honor or something, and the first snipers were treated as criminals. Anyone who tells me "War. War never changes." is getting punched in the nuts.

Why do the romans have less defense? Because it's a turn-based board game about magic and time travel. Leave your realism at the door.

It really hurts the credibility of your statements when you don't even know how to distinguish between Minutemen and Linemen. Minutemen were militia and fought in rag-tag groups using semi-guerrilla tactics for the time. You however are speaking of the regular army, which, by the way, didn't use their sights, not because they refused to, but because the weapons of that period were so inaccurate that the only way they could hit their target was to "estimate" the trajectory of their shots. Eying straight down the sight was as reliable as rolling a D6 and hoping for a 7.
The old command of "Don't fire 'til you see the whites of their eyes" was because that was the limit of how far they could shoot and reliably hit a target the size of a human torso.

...but I digress...

 

[HyperactiveSloth]

killercactus and Lotus, you're both right. you're just talking about different things.

One of the unfortunate side-effects of Hasbro giving things conflicting names.

 

[SoulfulKillingMachine]

Wow, I am really, really ignorant. Thanks for telling me the facts in a small forum where my mistakes won't matter much! I seriously appreciate it!

 

[Nwojedi]

just think what an Ozzie could do back then. One person with a duffle bag full of ammo, and body armor, could take down the entire british army by himself.

 

[Revdyer]

That's because the Fourth have learned the 5 D's of Defense, Dodge, Duck, Dip, Dive and . . . . Dodge. Well maybe just the first D, but still they are better than those ruddy romans.

No they don't. Colonial minutemen were the most defenseless, inefficient ranged soldiers ever. First they had to contact the enemy in advance to schedule a time and place for each battle. Then they fought in flat, open fields with no civilians around. They stood completely still in a wide row, wearing bright colors, with drums and flutes to make sure everyone noticed them. They attacked in volleys, refusing to aim with their sights because of honor or something, and the first snipers were treated as criminals. Anyone who tells me "War. War never changes." is getting punched in the nuts.

Why do the romans have less defense? Because it's a turn-based board game about magic and time travel. Leave your realism at the door.

By the way, your description of the opening exchanges of the American Revolution are inaccurate. I have taught several courses on the military tactics of the era, and your characterization is simply not correct.

 

[Will T]

By the way, your description of the opening exchanges of the American Revolution are inaccurate. I have taught several courses on the military tactics of the era, and your characterization is simply not correct.

Not to mention, you were there!

 

[GI Joker]

just think what an Ozzie could do back then. One person with a duffle bag full of ammo, and body armor, could take down the entire british army by himself.

I was thinking along the same lines watching 300 yesterday. “hmmm… Six Marines with three 240G machineguns between them and plenty of ammo wearing flaks with sappi plates and kevlars versus the Persian army…”

 

[Revdyer]

By the way, your description of the opening exchanges of the American Revolution are inaccurate. I have taught several courses on the military tactics of the era, and your characterization is simply not correct.

Not to mention, you were there!

Oh, thanks, Will T. As if I'm not feeling old enough already, since it is the Thursday before GenCon and I'm going to have to trundle all the way to Indianapolis for this thing.

 

[HyperactiveSloth]

just think what an Ozzie could do back then. One person with a duffle bag full of ammo, and body armor, could take down the entire british army by himself.

Pretty much, yeah. Then again, most modern weapons would have devastated an opposing army from back then or earlier. Heck, you wouldn't even need anything that powerful. You can buy a kit online to turn a .22 pistol into a hand-crank gatling gun and then sit in a tree and take out nearly an entire regiment, I'd imagine.

:hijack:

 

[Ormus]

When I first saw the Greeks I thought they were banditos because of the hats. Then I saw the swords and read the package and I said,"Oh, thats lame."

 

[Xaqery]

Pretty much, yeah. Then again, most modern weapons would have devastated an opposing army from back then or earlier. Heck, you wouldn't even need anything that powerful. You can buy a kit online to turn a .22 pistol into a hand-crank gatling gun and then sit in a tree and take out nearly an entire regiment, I'd imagine.

Thats if the regiment kept comming. You would have to sleep at some point

 

[DingoDarkly]

By the way, your description of the opening exchanges of the American Revolution are inaccurate. I have taught several courses on the military tactics of the era, and your characterization is simply not correct.

Not to mention, you were there!

Oh, thanks, Will T. As if I'm not feeling old enough already, since it is the Thursday before GenCon and I'm going to have to trundle all the way to Indianapolis for this thing.

You're not old Rev, your just older!

 

[Revdyer]

By the way, your description of the opening exchanges of the American Revolution are inaccurate. I have taught several courses on the military tactics of the era, and your characterization is simply not correct.

Not to mention, you were there!

Oh, thanks, Will T. As if I'm not feeling old enough already, since it is the Thursday before GenCon and I'm going to have to trundle all the way to Indianapolis for this thing.

You're not old Rev, your just older!

I fear that this time next week, I'll be even older still! Especially trying to keep up with the energy of some of the folks here who are going to be leading the way in Indianapolis.

 

[DingoDarkly]

By the way, your description of the opening exchanges of the American Revolution are inaccurate. I have taught several courses on the military tactics of the era, and your characterization is simply not correct.

Not to mention, you were there!

Oh, thanks, Will T. As if I'm not feeling old enough already, since it is the Thursday before GenCon and I'm going to have to trundle all the way to Indianapolis for this thing.

You're not old Rev, your just older!

I fear that this time next week, I'll be even older still! Especially trying to keep up with the energy of some of the folks here who are going to be leading the way in Indianapolis.

"You're older than you were yesterday but you are younger than you will be tomorrow!"