Fourth World Workshop (New Gods/Apokolips)

[ALEXAN2507]

I still kinda think Darkseid as is seems a lil underpowered, like he can hold his own against the entire JL in-universe and he's currently at 380 points in this

I'd throw some ideas for an Event Hero Darkseid out but it's 2:30 AM

 

[IAmBatman]

Taking a shot at Metron:

NAME = METRON
SECRET IDENTITY =

SPECIES = NEW GOD
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = GENIUS?
PERSONALITY = ENIGMATIC
SIZE/HEIGHT = ?

LIFE = 6
MOVE = 4
RANGE = 4
ATTACK = 4
DEFENSE = 4
POINTS =

INTER-DIMENSIONAL TRAVEL
Instead of taking a turn with Metron, you may place him on any empty space on any Battlefield or on any Army Card. After placing Metron on an Army Card this way, you may choose another figure on that Army Card that has not been destroyed and inflict an automatic wound on the chosen figure. When Metron is moved with this special power, he will not take any leaving engagement attacks.

MOBIUS CHAIR
Before moving Metron, you may choose an unengaged friendly small or medium figure adjacent to Metron. After you move Metron, place the chosen figure on an empty space adjacent to Metron. When rolling defense dice against an attack, Metron always adds one automatic shield to whatever is rolled.

TEMPORAL DEFENSE
Once per round, if Metron or any friendly figure within 3 spaces of Metron is attacked by an opponent's figure that does not have the Temporal Defense special power, and at least 1 skull is rolled, you may reveal and remove any numbered Order Marker on this card. After removing the numbered Order Marker, the opponent's turn immediately ends, and the attacked figure receives no wounds.

FLYING

 

[Lazy Orang]

I still kinda think Darkseid as is seems a lil underpowered, like he can hold his own against the entire JL in-universe and he's currently at 380 points in this

I'd throw some ideas for an Event Hero Darkseid out but it's 2:30 AM

Typically characters tend to get scaled like that. Silver Surfer held his own against the entire Fan 4 and he's 400. Graviton against the Avengers - again 400. Hulk can probably do the same - 380.

 

[MrNobody]

I still kinda think Darkseid as is seems a lil underpowered, like he can hold his own against the entire JL in-universe and he's currently at 380 points in this

I'd throw some ideas for an Event Hero Darkseid out but it's 2:30 AM

Typically characters tend to get scaled like that. Silver Surfer held his own against the entire Fan 4 and he's 400. Graviton against the Avengers - again 400. Hulk can probably do the same - 380.

To be fair, the most direct comparison to Darkseid is Thanos, who is 500 currently. There’s also Amazo, who is certainly less powerful than Darkseid sitting way higher.
I personally think there’s grounds for a higher-point Darkseid if one was wanted.

 

[johnny139]

Yeah I'll agree that Darkseid - just scaled against the other New Gods and Superman villains - could easily warrant an Event Hero version in the 500+ range. Probably with some New God synergy.

 

[Lazy Orang]

I still kinda think Darkseid as is seems a lil underpowered, like he can hold his own against the entire JL in-universe and he's currently at 380 points in this

I'd throw some ideas for an Event Hero Darkseid out but it's 2:30 AM

Typically characters tend to get scaled like that. Silver Surfer held his own against the entire Fan 4 and he's 400. Graviton against the Avengers - again 400. Hulk can probably do the same - 380.

To be fair, the most direct comparison to Darkseid is Thanos, who is 500 currently. There’s also Amazo, who is certainly less powerful than Darkseid sitting way higher.
I personally think there’s grounds for a higher-point Darkseid if one was wanted.

Part of the reason Thanos is 500 is because you're essentially paying for two of him - resurrection is massive. Ignore that, and Darkseid's a lot better.
Not that I'm necessarily against another Darkseid, though, it's just that I love the current version (and he does tend to dominate). A little surprised to hear he's apparently that strong, though.

 

[MrNobody]

I hope nobody is taking a desire for a vII as a condemnation of OG Darkseid. I just think he’s a multi-faceted character who does lots of things and that it would be cool to have a version that tackles different elements of who he is. I do like IAmBatman’s idea of reverse synergy to boost up the original though.

 

[IAmBatman]

We have like five Supermen and a dozen Iron Men, so if there's interest in a Darkseid 2.0 that's more of an Event Hero, by all means. I'm personally more interested in filling out the world of New Gods around him, but this is an appropriate place for folks to post any Darkseid write ups they might have.

 

[MrNobody]

DARKSEID’S FAVOR
Start the game with a black Favor Marker on this card. At the beginning of each round, you may place the Favor Marker on the card of any Unique New God Hero you control. Any figure you control other than Darkseid with the Favor Marker on their card add 1 to their Attack and Defense.

This is my idea for at least an element of a leadership power for Darkseid. It might be a good idea to change the attack boost, if units like Desaad are going to rely on rolling all skulls.

 

[IAmBatman]

Well the Apokolyptian Technology precedent on Parademons is all about rolling all skulls, so I carried that through on the Steppenwolf and Desaad write ups.

 

[MrNobody]

Well the Apokolyptian Technology precedent on Parademons is all about rolling all skulls, so I carried that through on the Steppenwolf and Desaad write ups.

Oh yeah, I get that, and I think it’s a cool direction. But if that’s the way Darkseid’s army is rolling, it probably won’t make sense to have Darkseid making them roll more dice.

 

[johnny139]

I do think it makes sense to fill out the New Goods first and then see what an Event Darkseid has to offer them. If we could get semi-symmetrical Highfather/Darkseid "New God leader" designs, that'd be cool.

 

[Lazy Orang]

If the Parademons' 'all skulls rolled for a bonus' is going to be something of an aesthetic for Apokoliptian forces, perhaps an attack bonus based on re-rolling skulls would be a good idea, rather than a standard attack boost? Make those powers more likely? Don't know if that needs to be on Darkseid or some other 'connective tissue' unit, but I think it could work.


One thing I'd like to say though is I'd like to avoid making a Darkseid vII a necessary 'hub' unit for an Apokoliptian build - it would leave the first version of Darkseid out in the cold and, if he's a higher level Event Hero, it would leave less room for army building. I'd rather see connective tissue that makes building an Apokoliptian army with either Darkseid vI or vII viable (or one using other New God heroes instead, potentially). This is the issue I tend to have with the Asgardians as a faction - once I've drafted Odin I struggle to find room to build an Asgardian army. I wouldn't like to see a second Darkseid 'overwrite' the current one from future Apokolips builds - I genuinely think we should endeavour to make either version a viable one to build your army round.

 

[MrNobody]

If the Parademons' 'all skulls rolled for a bonus' is going to be something of an aesthetic for Apokoliptian forces, perhaps an attack bonus based on re-rolling skulls would be a good idea, rather than a standard attack boost? Make those powers more likely? Don't know if that needs to be on Darkseid or some other 'connective tissue' unit, but I think it could work.

I like this idea a lot. If the Apokolips units have a lot of similar “all skulls” powers it would also encourage playing Darkseid with his actual allies instead of his enemies who just happen to share a species.

One thing I'd like to say though is I'd like to avoid making a Darkseid vII a necessary 'hub' unit for an Apokoliptian build - it would leave the first version of Darkseid out in the cold and, if he's a higher level Event Hero, it would leave less room for army building. I'd rather see connective tissue that makes building an Apokoliptian army with either Darkseid vI or vII viable (or one using other New God heroes instead, potentially). This is the issue I tend to have with the Asgardians as a faction - once I've drafted Odin I struggle to find room to build an Asgardian army. I wouldn't like to see a second Darkseid 'overwrite' the current one from future Apokolips builds - I genuinely think we should endeavour to make either version a viable one to build your army round.

This is a valid point. I think maybe basing a Darkseid II around light New Gods synergy and Anti-Life would work. Maybe based around Final Crisis?

 

[johnny139]

If "all skulls triggers something cool" is the theme for Apokolips, maybe have Anti-Life Equation just subtract 1 from everyone's Attack/Defense? A symmetrical effect, but it encourages you to stack your army with people that benefit from rolling less dice.

 

[japes]

If "all skulls triggers something cool" is the theme for Apokolips, maybe have Anti-Life Equation just subtract 1 from everyone's Attack/Defense? A symmetrical effect, but it encourages you to stack your army with people that benefit from rolling less dice.

OOOOhhh I like that. I am digging the more soft synergy idea's lately.

 

[IAmBatman]

I like that too. If we did that I’d probably up Desaad to 2 Attack.

 

[MrNobody]

NAME = KALIBAK
SECRET IDENTITY = N/A

SPECIES = NEW GOD
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = ELITE
PERSONALITY = BRUTAL
SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 6
MOVE = 4
RANGE = 5
ATTACK = 2
DEFENSE = 6
POINTS = ???

BETA-CLUB
When attacking an adjacent figure, roll 5 additional attack dice. When rolling attack dice, if Kalibak rolls a skull on every die, the defending figure immediately receives one unblockable hit before rolling defense dice.

SEEKING APPROVAL
If Kalibak is within 5 clear sight spaces of Darkseid, he cannot leave engagements, and when rolling attack dice, all blanks rolled count as extra skulls.

SUPER STRENGTH

I really like LO's idea of having Darkseid allow re-rolls, and I don't know how 2 re-rolling powers would work together, so maybe that needs to change.

EDIT: The change made in red probably works better. Thoughts?

 

[IAmBatman]

I like it! Looks brutal, which is appropriate.

 

[Lazy Orang]

Kalibak looks good to me.

 

[johnny139]

Beta-Club is a really simple power but I love the tactical choice. 2 attack, but with fair odds of an auto-wound? Or straight up 7 attack? I'd kind of want the Seeking Approval power to only work when he's engaged, to push that even further.

In general, I feel like Granny Goodness letting you reroll dice (or maybe forcing you to reroll dice if you roll too low - and giving you a wound?) would be appropriate. Or, hmm, if we don't want to make too many reroll powers, maybe just grant an extra attack.

GRANNY'S LOVE
After a [New God/Fury] within clear sight of Granny Goodness attacks with a normal attack, if less than half of the dice rolled show skulls, that [New God/Fury] receives one wound and must attack one additional time, if possible.

 

[IAmBatman]

"Less than half" feels too customy to me. I'd rather it just trigger when no skulls are rolled. With the whole thing where we're subtracting dice/rolling low dice already a mechanic here, it should still trigger pretty often (and receiving a wound is pretty punitive!).

 

[MrNobody]

Beta-Club is a really simple power but I love the tactical choice. 2 attack, but with fair odds of an auto-wound? Or straight up 7 attack? I'd kind of want the Seeking Approval power to only work when he's engaged, to push that even further.

Hmm...that could work...

SEEKING APPROVAL
If Kalibak is within 5 clear sight spaces of Darkseid, he cannot leave engagements, and when rolling attack dice against an adjacent figure, all blanks rolled count as extra skulls.

 

[Spidey'tilIDie]

What about going with low defense, low attack, high life for all of the New Gods? It would really make them feel different from the other deities that we've designed. (I.e. Asgardians, Ares, Seth, Pluto)

 

[Ronin]

If "all skulls triggers something cool" is the theme for Apokolips, maybe have Anti-Life Equation just subtract 1 from everyone's Attack/Defense? A symmetrical effect, but it encourages you to stack your army with people that benefit from rolling less dice.

"Less than half" feels too customy to me. I'd rather it just trigger when no skulls are rolled. With the whole thing where we're subtracting dice/rolling low dice already a mechanic here, it should still trigger pretty often (and receiving a wound is pretty punitive!).

Really like this! Love carrying through the 'Apokoloptian Weaponry' mechanic to other cards and really working with that on the Apokoliptian leader types.